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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
Goddamn, I was scrolling through the pages and hoped one post would say HBO was either reconsidering or backing down but of course that was just too good to be true. They are hell bent on airing this filth eh? Quite a backstab move at MJ too, I totally forgot about that Bucharest concert.

Can someone explain to me what the statement by the estate exactly means? I have no idea what is meant with disparagement. I was really hoping they had sued them for defaming a dead person by using two perjurers in a "documentary". But I guess that's not how it works.
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The legal clause aims to prevent HBO doing the following: 'harm, disparage or cause to lower in esteem the reputation or public image of performer, or any person, firm or corporation related to or doing business with performer.' (Where 'performer = MJ)

Disparage means: To regard or represent as being of little worth.

Basically, saying or writing (or making films about) anything that harms Michael's reputation.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

KOPV said:
PS. I am seeing people online calling Michael out about calling Brett Barns and another kid his cousins on 'private home videos' when they were not his cousins.. They are finding that odd (If he had nothing to hide).. I really can't think of a good comeback aside from using the fact "Johnny Jackson" wasn't a cousin either but the family called him that. I have a feeling that would quickly get dismissed as a reasonable response though.. IDK!
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When does Michael call Brett Barnes his cousin? I recall him pointing out his cousins Levon and Elijah, but I don't recall him saying anything about Brett being his cousin.

"That's my cousin Elijah, he just pushed me in the pool. That's Levon my other cousin."
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

myosotis said:
The legal clause aims to prevent HBO doing the following: 'harm, disparage or cause to lower in esteem the reputation or public image of performer, or any person, firm or corporation related to or doing business with performer.' (Where 'performer = MJ)

Disparage means: To regard or represent as being of little worth.

Basically, saying or writing (or making films about) anything that harms Michael's reputation.
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Fantastic! It's a damn shame HBO didn't reconsider and beyond pathetic that they are so damn hellbent on airing this trash. They must really think it will become a huge success.

To be fair here, we have to wait and see how the viewers react to this. Yes it's absolutely fantastic all the support from people (not necessarily only fans) on social media but these people have not seen this filth yet. And don't get me wrong, I rather have them not watching it at all. It's clear that the comments of support are people that have woken up and I would love to believe that they won't be fooled easily next time.

But we do have a few people now (unless I got this wrong) aren't all from the media and they call the thing horrifying and that we should see it. Personally I doubt that these people before watching this trash were on his side or actually in the know about FACTS, but you never know. Let's wait and see.

Is there any way to tell what could happen next now that the estate made it clear that MJ is not to be ****ed with? I mean suing them means this will go to court for sure right? Sorry for all these possibly noob questions, I just don't have that much knowledge about this.
 
La74;4242242 said:
Anybody who has HBO should cancel their subscription. According to TSCM they had just shown a trailer for another documentary (a real one) and the ones who did that one had spent 4 years going through court documents. I mean make money on a lot of people watching this crap is exactly what they want to do. The fact that they are going through with showing this with two proven liars does not ”change what I think of Michael Jackson” it changes what I think about them.
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Last year I watched all the Game of Thrones seasons for the first time and loved it and in preparation for the last season. Yes I really want to see the ending to this all but it will have to wait, likely a very long time because HBO doesn't deserve a dime or any of my time. Justice for Michael 100 percent!

Just now I was on Facebook and I saw a post by Zimbio or something. These assholes posted about LN and their title said Fans will want to watch this.

Posted a comment there about how nobody should waste four hours of their life on this. Instead watch the two videos by Razorfist and that it wasn't even nearly close to four hours but full of facts. Also posted the article about the estate suing HBO and posted Razorfist's two videos once again and my comment was that you should ignore tabloids and media in general and watch this instead. And that it's shocking (for the ones that only listened to the media). Sure only "friends" on my FB will see this, but that's ok.
 
I knew that HBO would still air that trash. Since they so easily dismissed that letter the Estate sent them a few weeks ago, I knew they wouldn’t care about the lawsuit. I hope they end up in court so this can be settled and completely brought out to the public once and for all. This was such bullcrap from the very first day. And after years and years of the same old tired ish and the darndest excuses made for it, this needs to end. And Michael needs to be allowed to finally rest in peace. Seriously. Enough is enough.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

It's good that Michael's Estate is suing HBO, even if HBO insists on airing the mockumentary. IDK why but I have a good feeling about this. Despite HBO claiming that they will show it anyway I have a little bit of hope that they may quietly drop it at the last minute. Whatever happens MJ Fam should boycott it and not give them our ratings / money. HBO thinks that this will bring in huge ratings, let's do our part to prove them wrong.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I was watching a movie just now (All is lost) and it was with Robert Redford. I couldn't help thinking of LN all the time. I decided to look him up and I really wasn't aware that he's actually the founder of Sundance. I thought he was just part of the staff, nothing too big. I've always believed him to be a stand up guy and who would think twice about letting tabloid filth like this be aired there.

It's probably safe to say that he was very aware of this, right? If so, that's a goddamn disappointment and truly makes you wonder why, just why. He was aware of his acquittal, come on now dude, do some research first.



Lightbringer said:
The estates entire lawsuit vs HBO: https://leavingneverlandfacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Petition-to-Compel-Arbitration.pdf

Read pages 1 to 20 where the estate absolutely DESTROYS Leaving Neverland :)
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I'll definitely read this in the morning. It's 3:35 here now, I want to properly read this. Let's hope the destroying isn't only done in text here but for real. Bring them all down!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
I was watching a movie just now (All is lost) and it was with Robert Redford. I couldn't help thinking of LN all the time. I decided to look him up and I really wasn't aware that he's actually the founder of Sundance. I thought he was just part of the staff, nothing too big. I've always believed him to be a stand up guy and who would think twice about letting tabloid filth like this be aired there.

It's probably safe to say that he was very aware of this, right? If so, that's a goddamn disappointment and truly makes you wonder why, just why. He was aware of his acquittal, come on now dude, do some research first.





I'll definitely read this in the morning. It's 3:35 here now, I want to properly read this. Let's hope the destroying isn't only done in text here but for real. Bring them all down!
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I think Robert Redford left Sundance for quite a while now, I'm not sure why. I looked at that YouTube link, it got over 10,000 dislikes so far. That shows that we are not alone on this. And now with the Jussie Smollett saga going on now, more and more people will question things a lot more now. We're doing a great job so far, but it's not over yet. We've got our own social media accounts to use.

Like Biggie Smalls used to say, "If you don't know, now you know!"
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

KOPV said:
Do any of you have quick links of proof that Jardans desription of michaels body ws inaccorate? legal docs/videos.. anything? aside from the autopsy report..
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The Chandlers' attorney, Larry Feldman, filed a motion to have the pictures barred from the civil trial. I think that is very strong evidence that they didn't match.

https://themichaeljacksonallegation...s-taken-of-the-stars-genitalia-by-the-police/
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

The confidentiality provisions include some discussion that obligations on non-disclosures post-date HBO's relationship with the singer, but it's less clear whether those post-term obligations extend to non-disparagement, and HBO will surely argue that it wasn't the intention of either party to bind what HBO could say about Jackson throughout eternity.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

AlwaysThere said:
Do non-disparagement agreements hold up after death? I haven't been able to find anything yet, but if not, the Estate doesn't have a chance.
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The contract wasn't between Michael Jackson and HBO, it was between TTC Touring Corp and HBO. Michael's corporations didn't cease to exist after his death, therefore I don't see how his death could invalidate the contract between those two legal entities.

mkgenie said:
The confidentiality provisions include some discussion that obligations on non-disclosures post-date HBO's relationship with the singer, but it's less clear whether those post-term obligations extend to non-disparagement, and HBO will surely argue that it wasn't the intention of either party to bind what HBO could say about Jackson throughout eternity.
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The Estate are saying in the lawsuit that it was exactly what Michael Jackson intended (page 10), and HBO signed the contract. If HBO had a problem with that clause, if they wanted it to end at a specific date, then they shouldn't have signed the contract. Michael gave them an exclusivity in exchange for, among other things, a promise never to disparage him.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Could someone post the actual lawsuit document straight onto here please.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
I was watching a movie just now (All is lost) and it was with Robert Redford. I couldn't help thinking of LN all the time. I decided to look him up and I really wasn't aware that he's actually the founder of Sundance. I thought he was just part of the staff, nothing too big. I've always believed him to be a stand up guy and who would think twice about letting tabloid filth like this be aired there.

It's probably safe to say that he was very aware of this, right? If so, that's a goddamn disappointment and truly makes you wonder why, just why. He was aware of his acquittal, come on now dude, do some research first.!
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It was very disappointing that LN was premiered right at Sundance. The festival's original purpose certainly wasn't to give platform to this kind of propaganda (and how is it independent filmmaking in it's real sense anyway?).

And I still suspect the goal of LN's surprise addition was the distraction from Untouchable - and it seems to be working brilliantly, who talks about that, who makes additional shows about that? And if that's the case Sundance (and others) are participating in it, either consciously or blindly.

Redford sort of stepped back from Sundance, so I like to think to myself he doesn't really had a say in this anymore.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/...-back-face-sundance-film-festival/2670777002/
 
etoile 37;4242283 said:
The Chandlers' attorney, Larry Feldman, filed a motion to have the pictures barred from the civil trial. I think that is very strong evidence that they didn't match.

https://themichaeljacksonallegation...s-taken-of-the-stars-genitalia-by-the-police/
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He did say that he was circumcised and I don’t think they ever had any intention that the case would go to court because it wouldn’t hold in court. Larry Feldmans job was just to create a huge media circus and then try go get a big settlement. Evan then wanted to continue screen writing.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

The estate has a very solid ground to sue based on their lawsuit. Not only that but they have used this filing to rightfully attack the man in charge of HBO and expose him as the incompetent manager he is compared to his predecessor. No wonder HBO called it desperate attempt to stop the movie, the estate went after their boss directly and openly, and I am sure Branca and Co did not expect him to pull off the doc after he was been personally exposed and called a failure. You can tell from the lawsuit that Weizman's letter to HBO was part of the estate strategy in building a legal case against HBO. The estate alludes to having their own documentary. Let's see.

As things stand now HBO will have to compensate the estate for all the damage this documentary is going to cause to MJ's reputation on a global scale. The more damage the more money they will have to pay. Serves them just right.

Saying that mj has died is not a legal argument at all.

The facts that it is one sided, the facts that no attempt to even present the other side of the story, the refusal of HBO to even sit with mj representatives to hear why HBO should look more into the credibility of the accusers are all cited to prove that HBO breached its contract with MJ. I cannot see how HBO will get out of this. They have not only breached the contract but acted in malice. The courts will hear that. How HBO will defend itself? They will ask the court to "see the movie for themselves" ! That's the issue then the court will see that the estates argument is 100 accurate.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

One more thing, the estate is asking for a non-confidential arbitration of the matter. So they want this to be played in front of everyone to expose HBO.
 
La74;4242248 said:
I think it still is a good idea to take it to court though. That way they can ONCE AGAIN show all the lies and contradictions and that they only ”realized they were abused” in their 30s after Wade didn’t get the job for a tribute show. And then if the media will not print that we can get spread it in social media as much as we possible can and also ”what does this say about HBOs credibility”.
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Same here. Prove that these two guys are liars, or well basically three because Dan Reed isn't fooling anybody. Dude claims he's obsessed with factual accuracy. Riiiiiiiiight.

Carmour260;4242282 said:
I think Robert Redford left Sundance for quite a while now, I'm not sure why. I looked at that YouTube link, it got over 10,000 dislikes so far. That shows that we are not alone on this. And now with the Jussie Smollett saga going on now, more and more people will question things a lot more now. We're doing a great job so far, but it's not over yet. We've got our own social media accounts to use.

Like Biggie Smalls used to say, "If you don't know, now you know!"
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ozemouze;4242298 said:
It was very disappointing that LN was premiered right at Sundance. The festival's original purpose certainly wasn't to give platform to this kind of propaganda (and how is it independent filmmaking in it's real sense anyway?).

And I still suspect the goal of LN's surprise addition was the distraction from Untouchable - and it seems to be working brilliantly, who talks about that, who makes additional shows about that? And if that's the case Sundance (and others) are participating in it, either consciously or blindly.

Redford sort of stepped back from Sundance, so I like to think to myself he doesn't really had a say in this anymore.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/...-back-face-sundance-film-festival/2670777002/
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Good point about distracting away from Untouchable. I truly didn't hear anybody about that. As for Redford, I hope so. I had looked on Wikipedia and couldn't find anything on him leaving Sundance or not resigning from it but taking it easy. At one point for a minute I thought maybe I should just skip this movie because if he had any hand in this.... I don't want to support him. But that would be taking things too far. Boycotting HBO oh hell yeah, though. And Holy shit, 10, 000 dislikes now? A day or two ago it was 3,000. Sweet!!!!

Soundmind;4242308 said:
One more thing, the estate is asking for a non-confidential arbitration of the matter. So they want this to be played in front of everyone to expose HBO.
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You mean that whatever happens in court in front of a judge we'll get to hear all the details?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Soundmind said:
As things stand now HBO will have to compensate the estate for all the damage this documentary is going to cause to MJ's reputation on a global scale. The more damage the more money they will have to pay. Serves them just right.
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Personally I think saying they "will" presumes too much.
HBO clearly don't agree and they have their own legal experts.
$100million+ is a lot of money and if HBO thought there was a risk of them losing the case they would certainly make a different response.



Soundmind said:
One more thing, the estate is asking for a non-confidential arbitration of the matter. So they want this to be played in front of everyone to expose HBO.
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Yes that is a very smart move. For anybody who is interested this tells them that the MJ Estate have NOTHING to hide, but if HBO decide to try to keep this quiet (and they will) THEY look like they're trying to hide something.
 
I’m sorry to be defeatist but I don’t think the estate have the best case here (although I’m so glad they’re doing something). Is there any American legal expert that can interpret the strength of this claim? We probably shouldn’t pin all or any hopes on this claim until we know more. There must be other legal avenues to explore.... something... anything
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

MJTruth said:
Personally I think saying they "will" presumes too much.
HBO clearly don't agree and they have their own legal experts.
$100million+ is a lot of money and if HBO thought there was a risk of them losing the case they would certainly make a different response.





Yes that is a very smart move. For anybody who is interested this tells them that the MJ Estate have NOTHING to hide, but if HBO decide to try to keep this quiet (and they will) THEY look like they're trying to hide something.
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They have their own legal experts but it seems that they have forgotten all about the 1992 contract. It was not even signed with them but with another entity of which they have become the legal successor in terms of rights and obligations. As for the amount of damage. Show the film, and the reviews alone from that doc to objective audience such as arbitrators, provide them with the history of the accusers which was readily accessible to everyone but was deliberately omitted from the film and you have proven that HBO has acted with malice. The punitive damages alone will set MJ's children for life.
 
It’s great that The Estate have made this move, and they’ve found a way to actually file a lawsuit due to the 1992 contract. You can’t defame the dead, so without this they wouldn’t have any real legal basis to file a suit.

I don’t think the Estate ever expected them to pull the doc, however they will hope that this suit (plus a possible public arbitration process) will give them a platform to fight back after the doc airs.

There is nothing that is going to stop both HBO or Channel 4 airing this now. It’s happening. However, I believe the Estate are gearing themselves up to fight this after the doc airs. Let’s also be clear, we don’t need to panic. There will inevitably be a fallout and some kind of public outcry after the doc airs, but there is plenty of time to for the truth to come out to a wider audience.

I’ve said this multiple times now - the Estate have the platform and the knowledge from their recent litigation with Robson/Safechuck to get the truth out to a wide audience. A public arbitration is one option, however there is no guarantee that will happen and it will take time. There needs to be a big PR offensive from them after this airs. They will need to become more visual, get out there in the media. Do interviews etc etc.
 
MJJ2theMAX;4242315 said:
I’m sorry to be defeatist but I don’t think the estate have the best case here (although I’m so glad they’re doing something). Is there any American legal expert that can interpret the strength of this claim? We probably shouldn’t pin all or any hopes on this claim until we know more. There must be other legal avenues to explore.... something... anything
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Why do you think it is not strong? A dead person cannot be defamed but his rights and obligations under contract law do not cease to exist just because he has died. HBO has violated its obligations under a contractual agreement with MJ whose legal successor is the estate and the estate is suing on such basis.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
You mean that whatever happens in court in front of a judge we'll get to hear all the details?
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There is no court here. The agreement says disputes shall be referred to arbitration. Arbitration is a private and confidential venue by which parties may agree to settle their legal disputes. The estates cannot not take HBO to court under the 1992 contract because of the arbitration clause, but they are asking for it to be non-confidential so they can share everything with the public. As another poster said, this shows the estate has nothing to hide and if HBO fights back on this request, then that's only because they are worried about being exposed.
 
Can HBO just refuse to arbitrate? What would happen then? Are the estate totally on the back foot here?

Again I’m really sorry to be defeatist but we really can’t pin any hopes on this until we’ve had a legal expert interpret this claim and it’s merits for us.

I am a lawyer in UK but don’t have the requisite knowledge to know what’s going on here. My hunch is that the Estate do not have the best case but I would absolutely love to be proved wrong. Can any US legal experts help us? Has anyone in the press attempted to weigh up the strength of this claim?
 
Soundmind;4242320 said:
There is no court here. The agreement says disputes shall be referred to arbitration. Arbitration is a private and confidential venue by which parties may agree to settle their legal disputes. The estates cannot not take HBO to court under the 1992 contract because of the arbitration clause, but they are asking for it to be non-confidential so they can share everything with the public. As another poster said, this shows the estate has nothing to hide and if HBO fights back on this request, then that's only because they are worried about being exposed.
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That's really good then. I hope HBO agrees to it, sure it will look like they are confident and believe they have nothing to hide, but like you guys said, neither does the estate. If HBO genuinely believes they have something strong and credible with LN then I can see them agreeing to this.

If they don't agree, yep that's quite telling. And we can only hope that the media will report on that as well to which I say... I'll believe it when I see it.

dmehta;4242323 said:
No, they keep telling us to just “watch the film”.
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Every day I check this site called Hotnewhiphop for hiphop news and songs and they have had plenty of LN articles. Crap like "what you should know about it" and very very few articles that actually mattered. The news about the estate suing HBO for example..... well they haven't covered that at all yet. I called them out on it in a recent Jussie Smollett article by them.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

[FONT=&quot]Have you seen this new clip on [/FONT]@sunriseon7[FONT=&quot] ? They mention a security guard at 01:38. Do you if it's Melanie Bangall or Sandy Domz ?

[/FONT]https://twitter.com/i/status/1098687709453799424[FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

marc_vivien said:
[FONT=&quot]Have you seen this new clip on [/FONT]@sunriseon7[FONT=&quot] ? They mention a security guard at 01:38. Do you if it's Melanie Bangall or Sandy Domz ?

[/FONT]https://twitter.com/i/status/1098687709453799424[FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]
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That tweet makes it seem like Mike's family has a revelation to make which isn't positive for Mike. Maybe that's just me.

I looked up those names on Vindicatemj.wordpress.com but no results.

Wait, I read that wrong. His family apparently tried to surpress damning evidence, sigh, sure. And a piece of text in that clip says "the singer's family and accusers appear on Sunday Night.
 
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