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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I think the Estate should make a short 10 minute video whereby they explain the whole document, in which they bash HBO, Safechuck and Robson. The only thing they can do is prove those liars wrong by exposing them.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
That tweet makes it seem like Mike's family has a revelation to make which isn't positive for Mike. Maybe that's just me.

I looked up those names on Vindicatemj.wordpress.com but no results.

Wait, I read that wrong. His family apparently tried to surpress damning evidence, sigh, sure. And a piece of text in that clip says "the singer's family and accusers appear on Sunday Night.
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Names are ill-written , depends on website

Melanie Bagnall . Sandy Domz
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

marc_vivien said:
Names are ill-written , depends on website

Melanie Bagnall . Sandy Domz
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Thank you. I found them on Vindicatemj.wordpress.com. Let's hope they are indeed the ones and not "new" ones.

At times like these i wish his decent bodyguards would come forward, the ones that also wrote a good book about him and say what is up. It would certainly help a little.
 
dmehta;4242318 said:
It’s great that The Estate have made this move, and they’ve found a way to actually file a lawsuit due to the 1992 contract. You can’t defame the dead, so without this they wouldn’t have any real legal basis to file a suit.

I don’t think the Estate ever expected them to pull the doc, however they will hope that this suit (plus a possible public arbitration process) will give them a platform to fight back after the doc airs.

There is nothing that is going to stop both HBO or Channel 4 airing this now. It’s happening. However, I believe the Estate are gearing themselves up to fight this after the doc airs. Let’s also be clear, we don’t need to panic. There will inevitably be a fallout and some kind of public outcry after the doc airs, but there is plenty of time to for the truth to come out to a wider audience.

I’ve said this multiple times now - the Estate have the platform and the knowledge from their recent litigation with Robson/Safechuck to get the truth out to a wide audience. A public arbitration is one option, however there is no guarantee that will happen and it will take time. There needs to be a big PR offensive from them after this airs. They will need to become more visual, get out there in the media. Do interviews etc etc.
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And I hope this cause a backlash for HBO and Channel 4. People are woke even more after this Jussie Smollett's how far people will go to lie. Oh yeah, everyone is catching it. And there is more evidence against Wade and James to prove they are lying compare to Jussie and he is already a proven liar and sticking with his lie. HBO know this is a lie but they are going to go through because they are going to look bad either way. Like Don Lemon said "going on morning shows and getting soft ball question, then making claims, etc is over (sound familiar aka Today show appearance) come where u can be challenge and LIVE interview. This Dan, Wade, James wont do such a thing.
 
terrell;4242348 said:
And I hope this cause a backlash for HBO and Channel 4. People are woke even more after this Jussie Smollett's how far people will go to lie. Oh yeah, everyone is catching it. And there is more evidence against Wade and James to prove they are lying compare to Jussie and he is already a proven liar and sticking with his lie. HBO know this is a lie but they are going to go through because they are going to look bad either way. Like Don Lemon said "going on morning shows and getting soft ball question, then making claims, etc is over (sound familiar aka Today show appearance) come where u can be challenge and LIVE interview. This Dan, Wade, James wont do such a thing.
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The normal rules of the game don’t apply when it comes to Michael Jackson. All journalistic integrity goes out of the window. The level of tabloid bottom feeding that goes on in the name of MJ is sickening. The reason is that many in the media don’t see him as human. He is/was just a freak, an oddball. They presume him to be guilty first and foremost because of his eccentricities and more unusual lifestyle. That is their starting position.

As a result, they presume the worst, believe the alleged victims without doing any research and convict him despite all of the mountains of exculpatory evidence that exists out there that has already exonerated him in the past and does so today wrt Wade & James.

The media also believe they can literally say anything about MJ and get away with it. They think the public will believe anything that is written about him because they assume people will say “he was weird so it must be true”.

I thought after he died there was at least some attempt to humanise Mike, particularly after Paris spoke at his memorial, all the stories about what a good father he was, how he was left to die by his doctor etc etc. However, it doesn’t take much for the media to fall back into savaging MJ.
 
dmehta;4242352 said:
I thought after he died there was at least some attempt to humanise Mike, particularly after Paris spoke at his memorial, all the stories about what a good father he was, how he was left to die by his doctor etc etc. However, it doesn’t take much for the media to fall back into savaging MJ.
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I think that's because they felt regret, even some sort of shame and remorse (let's face it, they have indirectly contributed to MJ's untimely death), and that's not a good feeling. So now they will more than happily jump on the MJ bashing bandwagon in order to justify themselves, that their vile treatment of MJ was right after all. It's much easier than facing they were wrong and what they did was wrong.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

marc_vivien said:
so, they interviewed Melanie Bagnall. she is the one who said Brett barnes was molested by MJ
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Truly all of the vultures come back from out of the woodwork huh? This is beyond pathetic. This show calls it evidence, yeah if she really had actual evidence she would have presented it years ago when all this was going on. These shows just invite just about anyone know and throw catchy shit like "evidence" on it eh. The people that knew him best. Bitch, this is incredibly old shit. Truly there should be a law against this.

I'm gonna do some more reading on this Melanie, but she's basically no better than the maid who lied under oath claiming MJ and Wade were showering, right?

God forbid that these shows would cover factual information. For a change fully cover the lawsuit against HBO.
 
MJJ2theMAX;4242321 said:
Can HBO just refuse to arbitrate? What would happen then? Are the estate totally on the back foot here?

Again I’m really sorry to be defeatist but we really can’t pin any hopes on this until we’ve had a legal expert interpret this claim and it’s merits for us.

I am a lawyer in UK but don’t have the requisite knowledge to know what’s going on here. My hunch is that the Estate do not have the best case but I would absolutely love to be proved wrong. Can any US legal experts help us? Has anyone in the press attempted to weigh up the strength of this claim?
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I've seen that arbitration need not be binding if the contract was originally 'unfairly imposed' (eg. this article below, which I'm not sure is specific to California). Otherwise both sides have to go to arbitration and cannot refuse.

If a signed arbitration agreement is in place, one side may not unilaterally decide that it does not want to arbitrate. In all but a few very limited cases, courts will refuse to hear the case and compel the parties involved to decide the dispute according to the terms of the arbitration outlined in their contract.

Enforcement of an Arbitration Agreement

There is a very limited array of exceptions in which a court will not enforce an arbitration agreement. The major exception is something called "unconscionable adhesion contracts." If a party does not wish to arbitrate and wants to convince the court that he shouldn't have to because the contract and/or arbitration clause was an unconscionable adhesion contract, there are a few key things he has to prove:

He must prove there was no reasonable opportunity for any sort of negotiation, and that the contract was presented to him on a take-it-or-leave it basis. This is the essential definition of an adhesion contract. Many contracts are adhesion contracts, like those for the purchase or use of airline tickets, insurance, cars, credit cards, cell phones, or any other consumer goods where you may sign a contract or agreement.

He must prove the terms were extremely unfair/unreasonable/advantageous to the party offering the contract. Essentially, this is what it takes to prove the terms are "unconscionable."

If the court doesn't find that a contract was an unconscionable adhesion contract, they will enforce the arbitration clause, and the two parties will have no choice but to handle their issue in arbitration. Further, whatever decision the arbitrator makes will be binding on both parties, unlike in other types of alternative dispute resolution (ADR) like mediation.
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https://law.freeadvice.com/litigation/arbitration/signed_arbitration_agreement.htm
 
ozemouze;4242356 said:
I think that's because they felt regret, even some sort of shame and remorse (let's face it, they have indirectly contributed to MJ's untimely death), and that's not a good feeling. So now they will more than happily jump on the MJ bashing bandwagon in order to justify themselves, that their vile treatment of MJ was right after all. It's much easier than facing they were wrong and what they did was wrong.
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I wouldn’t give the media that much credit. Much of the relative positivity after MJ died was a byproduct of the public mood. Ofcourse, some in the public didn’t care tha MJ died and disliked him, but many more loved him and his music and mourned his passing. All the media were doing were jumping on that bandwagon, because it suited the narrative at the time and would increase clicks/readership/viewing figures. Not out of some remorse at their role in his death or a sudden conversion to being fans of his.

Theyve now reverted to type and will take any opportunity to bury MJ. Some journalists may genuinely believe MJ was a pedophile, however I’d guess some other don’t know for sure but go along with the narrative. It gets them hits to say “this proves he was a pedophile!” - such comments heightens interest. Just imagine a lay person hearing that this documentary supposedly provides “proof” of MJ being a pedo. That person is going to tune in and watch to see this damning nonexistent “proof”. It also plays into the current climate, where people love to virtue signal, convict people in the media and presume them to be guilty. It’s worse with MJ because he was accused in the past, some people never accepted the 2005 verdict and because he was eccentric.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

We have to keep the whole HBO thing in perspective, to think they would EVER not air that documentary is only fooling oneself. They genuinly think they have a documentary that is going to be the biggest thing to hit the #metoo generation. Anyone that is ignorant enough of the facts that see it would think the same thing.

If you 100% felt like you had the 'smoking gun' on the biggest celeb in the world and you believed it was real.. Would you stop at anything to get that public? Especially if you owned a company like HBO!?

no.. none of us would let anyone stop us..


Thankfully, they are greatly mistaken, when the smoke settles - they'll be left standing there needing to answer the hard questions. Since they did not do the appropriate research, they will be left frozen!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

KOPV said:
We have to keep the whole HBO thing in perspective, to think they would EVER not air that documentary is only fooling oneself. They genuinly think they have a documentary that is going to be the biggest thing to hit the #metoo generation. Anyone that is ignorant enough of the facts that see it would think the same thing.

If you 100% felt like you had the 'smoking gun' on the biggest celeb in the world and you believed it was real.. Would you stop at anything to get that public? Especially if you owned a company like HBO!?

no.. none of us would let anyone stop us..


Thankfully, they are greatly mistaken, when the smoke settles - they'll be left standing there needing to answer the hard questions. Since they did not do the appropriate research, they will be left frozen!
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I agree, and I really hope your last point is correct and that the truth wins out.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I just want to add that I'm really, really proud of the Estate for digging through everything and finding this clause in the old 92 contract. I'm beyond excited.

Personally, the best thing we can do now is NOT watch the show at all, and don't DVR it either. HBO doesn't deserve the ratings and they are banking on fans to watch this hit piece. Don't watch ch 4 either.

Think of those biographies that people (Sullivan, etc) speedily wrote, thinking they'd be big sellers-the sales were abysmal.

I know people will want to watch so they know what they're up against, but we already know what they're going to say because we've followed the cases since 2013-and there will be plenty of reviews and clips on YouTube within days, so we will end up seeing it anyway. So people can use that to fight back.
 
https://twitter.com/neverlandfacts/status/1098371465064271877?s=21

Another interesting little fact. In one of Wade’s emails to his mum back in 2012 he posts a whole story about a statement given by Charlie T Michaels, ex employee at Neverland, in relation to the ‘93 allegations where it was stated that Joy was crying and was kept away from Wade on mother’s day by MJ in 1990, and that Norma Staikos told Joy that they were rehearsing a dance routine and weren’t to disturb them etc.

Joy replies to Wade in the email in 2012, “wow none of that is true” - yet Wade uses the same statement from Charlie T Michael’s in his lawsuit, trying to implicate Norma Staikos in facilitating abuse as an employee of MJ’s companies.

The length Wade went to. And I wouldn’t be surprised if this story, about MJ and Norma keeping Joy away from Wade, has somehow made it into the doc as further evidence of MJ’s manipulation etc.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

KOPV said:
We have to keep the whole HBO thing in perspective, to think they would EVER not air that documentary is only fooling oneself. They genuinly think they have a documentary that is going to be the biggest thing to hit the #metoo generation. Anyone that is ignorant enough of the facts that see it would think the same thing.

If you 100% felt like you had the 'smoking gun' on the biggest celeb in the world and you believed it was real.. Would you stop at anything to get that public? Especially if you owned a company like HBO!?

no.. none of us would let anyone stop us..


Thankfully, they are greatly mistaken, when the smoke settles - they'll be left standing there needing to answer the hard questions. Since they did not do the appropriate research, they will be left frozen!
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Trouble is nobody in the media is holding them to account and so they won't have to answer any tough questions at all. The public will never know about the counter evidence.

IF a rebuttal documentary is ever released I would guess it WONT receive the same level of publicity that LN has received. IF any TV network chooses to air it (I doubt it), it will not be big news.

This is not a level playing field.

NOW is the time to discredit these fools with a documentary but sadly they outmaneuvered the MJ Estate and didn't allow them to prepare for this in any way - another sign this is a deliberate smear campaign.
 
dmehta;4242368 said:
https://twitter.com/neverlandfacts/status/1098371465064271877?s=21

Another interesting little fact. In one of Wade’s emails to his mum back in 2012 he posts a whole story about a statement given by Charlie T Michaels, ex employee at Neverland, in relation to the ‘93 allegations where it was stated that Joy was crying and was kept away from Wade on mother’s day by MJ in 1990, and that Norma Staikos told Joy that they were rehearsing a dance routine and weren’t to disturb them etc.

Joy replies to Wade in the email in 2012, “wow none of that is true” - yet Wade uses the same statement from Charlie T Michael’s in his lawsuit, trying to implicate Norma Staikos in facilitating abuse as an employee of MJ’s companies.

The length Wade went to. And I wouldn’t be surprised if this story, about MJ and Norma keeping Joy away from Wade, has somehow made it into the doc as further evidence of MJ’s manipulation etc.
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These are exactly the issues the media should be reporting but they're not interested.
It's not even a 'smoking gun' it's demonstrable fact that Wade knowingly lied on numerous points!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Then we have to keep pushing the info out there via social media. That is our weapon against the establishment media
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

MJTruth said:
Trouble is nobody in the media is holding them to account and so they won't have to answer any tough questions at all. The public will never know about the counter evidence.

IF a rebuttal documentary is ever released I would guess it WONT receive the same level of publicity that LN has received. IF any TV network chooses to air it (I doubt it), it will not be big news.

This is not a level playing field.

NOW is the time to discredit these fools with a documentary but sadly they outmaneuvered the MJ Estate and didn't allow them to prepare for this in any way - another sign this is a deliberate smear campaign.
Click to expand...

But what if HBO agrees and it all becomes public, then people will get to know about it. Won't they? It always remains to be seen if the media is willing to report that though.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

MJTruth said:
Trouble is nobody in the media is holding them to account and so they won't have to answer any tough questions at all. The public will never know about the counter evidence.

IF a rebuttal documentary is ever released I would guess it WONT receive the same level of publicity that LN has received. IF any TV network chooses to air it (I doubt it), it will not be big news.

This is not a level playing field.

NOW is the time to discredit these fools with a documentary but sadly they outmaneuvered the MJ Estate and didn't allow them to prepare for this in any way - another sign this is a deliberate smear campaign.
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You are right... Just try to remember that in this lawsuit the estate will have to go into detail of what is wrong with the HBO documentary. I would think they are not dumb enough to speak on the documentary without knowing what we have been talking about in this thread..




PS. to fellow MJ fans, try (I know its hard) not to get caught up with the BS people will pull online. I recently even had someone throw legal docs that show cocaine found in Michaels home... They will slander him the same way the media does simply because that is where they learn how to 'rationalize' things around Michael.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Can Brett Barnes file lawsuit against HBO, Channel 4 and Dan Reed for defamation? The way Wade is implying something happened between Brett and Michael during the Dangerous Tour?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

KOPV said:
You are right... Just try to remember that in this lawsuit the estate will have to go into detail of what is wrong with the HBO documentary. I would think they are not dumb enough to speak on the documentary without knowing what we have been talking about in this thread..




PS. to fellow MJ fans, try (I know its hard) not to get caught up with the BS people will pull online. I recently even had someone throw legal docs that show cocaine found in Michaels home... They will slander him the same way the media does simply because that is where they learn how to 'rationalize' things around Michael.
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There was someone from the estate at Sundance, wasn't there? That should be enough for them to discredit everything covered in it. Or is that unconfirmed?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Well, over here in North America, The New England Patriots owner is involved in some prostitution sting, Yikes.

Nobody is going to care about this Doc for a while lol.

This is huge news and there is a bigger name than him involved coming out.

RKelly just got charged with 10 counts of sexual abuse. There is also an alleged video of him and a 14 year old girl handed over to police.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

https://globalnews.ca/news/4987861/...F3jLmLD7wR4dsRisc2bZ_ygHR5Y_l84lCY95wsdy5qMq4

Article in Canada from Global news, one of the mainstream media companies here. Overall its not a bad article. Goes in-depth about how Taj is revealing all the lies from Wade including multiple screenshots. I would say the tone of this article favors MJ.
 
john13th;4242387 said:
Can Brett Barnes file lawsuit against HBO, Channel 4 and Dan Reed for defamation? The way Wade is implying something happened between Brett and Michael during the Dangerous Tour?
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Possibly. Or if they show photos of him without his permisson I guess he could sue for using his image and likeneness without having any rights to do so...in addition to defamation.

I was wondering if the Estate could sue Michael Jacobshagen for fraud and forgery and using MJ's image and signature for profit? Pretty sure MJ's name and the business around his name have been trademarked and the Estate holds the rights for all merchandice. So if the criminal police in Germany has proved that what Jacobshagen had been selling was forged, and the German television has on film where Jacobshagen is claiming that MJ "wrote those in front of me" and there is that Swiss fan Käppeli and that other fan who bought stuff from Jacobshagen as witnesses....it should be a slam dunk case. And if Jacobshagen is now doing the rounds in the media showing Dimond and the Australian press forged letters and a book with a forged writing to make it look like it was Michael's then add a conspiracy charge to that also. Can anyone find out where that footage of Dimond with that book that they showed during the clip in Australian TV, is from? If anyone has the footage please post. Because this is like Dimond and Gutierrez all over again and the Estate should sue Dimond. And since this is her second time around, they can show it's her intention to conspire to do harm. Maybe the first time around she got off the hook by claiming "she didn't know Gutierrez wasn't reliable and didn't have any video"...but this time she should have known better and yet, she still failed to check who she was dealing with. Or worse, if she knew that Jacobshagen is shady and lying then she is doing all of thsi with intention and malice. And what makes it worse for Dimond is that she was around through the whole trial and practically attached to the hip (literally...:kissing::kiss:) with Sneddon, and closely following the trial...she should know about everything that was or was not found and where it was found in MJ's house. So any books she tries to bring out now as some "shocking new evidence"...she should know better. If not defamation...I am sure there are some conspiracy laws or some kind of media laws that can be used to hold her responsible. If not for nothing else then conspiracy to use forged material for financial gain. And since Michael Jackson is trademarked (pretty sure of it), they are using his name for profit illegally by using material that is wrongly being sold as Michael Jackson's. Just an idea. I hope someone with more experience in law can come up with the details? :D
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

elusive moonwalker said:
Perfect timing robert!
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Robert Kraft? Damn. That would be huge! Hopefully they release who that bigger name is in the beginning of March so that no one remembers the film or will post articles about it.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

summer said:
Robert Kraft? Damn. That would be huge! Yes, great timing indeed!
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Apparently somebody bigger than him is involved.

My prediction - Prepare for the Robson dbag camp to come out with some attention seeking headlines.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

elusive moonwalker said:
robert Kelly. Whos kraft
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Robert Kraft is the owner of the New England Patriots, he was just arrested for a prostitution sting. R. Kelly is now charged with 10 counts. It's been crazy here in America
 
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