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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

So many from the bbc and the 'Rise and fall' filmmaker has already seen the documantary before the first airing on tv.

CONSPIRICY!

That wade said he abbused them 100 times is very familiar with a well known claim fom MJ Facts. They said MJ abbused Bread Barnes 400 times andhave it in a title in one of their videos.
All this screames very loud: NAMBLA!
 
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Speed_Demon87;4243756 said:
That’s what I fear the most, the general public will just accept these lies as the truth and that will be that.

MJ will be known as a peadophile.

Nobody will bother actually researching to find out the truth. Robson and Safechuck says MJ abused them so it must be true....

I’m wondering if they are hoping someone like Brett Barnes will come out and admit to being “abused”

Some of these documentaries you see on Netflix etc are very harrowing as they use a lot of shock tactics. The difference this time is that this documentary is going out all over the world and being shown on national television.
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In this day and age, EVERYTHING have to be research. We do not live in a world where people can make a doc and then nothing is done. This story get bigger means more people will have to examine it.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

terrell said:
Duh, of course it is going to be graphic. They have to throw everything at the wall and see what stick. Look at the so called 'ring", What person keeps a ring of someone who they claim 'abuse" him? James mother claim she was happy when MJ died. Wait, YOUR SON claim he did not know he was abuse UNTIL he saw Wade's claim in 2013 (MJ died in 2009). And MJ was so bad and graphic, why would they not know abuse when ASKED BY EVERYONE for YEARS over an over and still claim nothing happen even UNDE OATH. This is BS.
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That's why the love story comes handy. They lied to protect him because they loved him. As for them contradicting their own statements, as far as some people are concerned it is fine to lie to get around the status of limitation because they r victims after all and entitled to get paid for the damage done to them even if it meant having to lie 'small lies'. But he told his mother in 2005 he was an evil man so where does that leave the love story? There was no love story he hated him as early as 2005 so why he continued to lie? he's a victim felt ashamed ...etc. You will never be able to reason with people who believe them because they have a readily answer for any valid point you make no matter how contradictory their answers are they will never cease to throw them in our faces.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Carmour260 said:
What happened? I was at work, what did he say? Never mind, I found it
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He is going to "go all in it" when it comes out. So He will give his take probably on Monday.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Soundmind said:
That's why the love story comes handy. They lied to protect him because they loved him. As for them contradicting their own statements, as far as some people are concerned it is fine to lie to get around the status of limitation because they r victims after all and entitled to get paid for the damage done to them even if it meant having to lie 'small lies'. But he told his mother in 2005 he was an evil man so where does that leave the love story? There was no love story he hated him as early as 2005 so why he continued to lie? he's a victim felt ashamed ...etc. You will never be able to reason with people who believe them because they have a readily answer for any valid point you make no matter how contradictory their reasons are.
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And that is where u have to break it down. And if he thought Mj was an "evil" man by 2005, why did it take wade in 2013 to make his so called see it? That makes no sense.
 
La74;4243743 said:
https://www.showbiz411.com/2019/02/...n-i-heard-that-he-died-i-was-so-happy-he-died

So it very graphic but it it Safechuck mother says she danced then she heard Michael was dead but Michael died in 2009 and Safechuck didn’t ”realize he was abused” until 2013..
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Safechuck also supposedly told his mother that Michael was a "bad man" in '05.
Some questions about that, as well as his entire timeline:

  • Why would he say that if he hadn't yet come to terms with his abuse?
  • Why did his parents seemingly ignore that random outburst? Think about it -- the man you entrusted your child with on numerous occasions when he was prepubescent is on trial for pedophilia, and your kid calls him a "bad man" and refuses to testify in his defense. How goddamn suspect is that? Wouldn't that raise a million red flags?
  • Why would his mother be so happy that Michael died, four whole years before Safechuck's so-called realization?
  • Safechuck's legal filing states that the birth of his son in '10 ignited a sequence of long-repressed memories of his abuse. Why, then, did he later claim that he wouldn't "realize" it until after seeing Robson on TV in May '13? Accordingly, why did he wait a full year to pursue legal action?
None of it makes any ****ing sense.

Me thinks that the Safechucks expected Michael to catapult them to superstardom and started leeching off him, at which point Michael ditched them entirely (which he had a habit of doing), which initiated a deep-rooted vendetta that ultimately resulted in Leaving Neverland.

Given the court filing and some of the material in the documentary, it's pretty clear that they're an entitled family -- Safechuck's mother apparently acts disgusted that Michael once asked them to pay for their own hotel rooms while on a trip to New York City -- and that James expected to be the next Spielberg, which his abuse hindered.

Pathetic. $200 says that he lands an acting/directing gig within the next six months.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

So Roger Friedman, who is in bed with the estate, tried to be as neutral as one can be in his review and still he stopped short of saying he believed them. He is waiting for the public reaction before he officially takes a side. A snake once a snake always.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

AlwaysThere said:
Safechuck also supposedly told his mother that Michael was a "bad man" in '05.
Some questions about that, as well as his entire timeline:

  • Why would he say that if he hadn't yet come to terms with his abuse?
  • Why did his parents seemingly ignore that random outburst? Think about it -- the man you entrusted your child with on numerous occasions when he was prepubescent is on trial for pedophilia, and your kid calls him a "bad man" and refuses to testify in his defense. How goddamn suspect is that? Wouldn't that raise a million red flags?
  • Why would his mother be so happy that Michael died, four whole years before Safechuck's so-called realization?
  • Safechuck's legal filing states that the birth of his son in '10 ignited a sequence of long-repressed memories of his abuse. Why, then, did he later claim that he wouldn't "realize" it until after seeing Robson on TV in May '13? Accordingly, why did he wait a full year to pursue legal action?
None of it makes any ****ing sense.

Me thinks that the Safechucks expected Michael to catapult them to superstardom and started leeching off him, at which point Michael ditched them entirely (which he had a habit of doing), which initiated a deep-rooted vendetta that ultimately resulted in Leaving Neverland.

Given the court filing and some of the material in the documentary, it's pretty clear that they're an entitled family -- Safechuck's mother apparently acts disgusted that Michael once asked them to pay for their own hotel rooms while on a trip to New York City -- and that James was expected to be the next Spielberg.

Pathetic.
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Will they produce any evidence that MJ bought a house for them? Of course not. I read this rumour before mi's death and they probably heard about it and now present it as a fact knowing fully well no one will ask them to produce anything. Safe chuck's mother is a complicit player in this. They are sick of being poor and want to live the large life they believe they have always been entitled to. joy is claiming she told mj off when he tried to take wade on the dangerous tour with him. was not she the one who said previously that she shut out mj for six months because she was so angry he did not take wade on tour with him. Again this is a sign she knew her son is lying but is willing to help him sound credible.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

CBS pushing this is pretty brutal. It was even brought up on their World News Roundup segment on the radio this morning, but I shut it off before I could hear anymore of it. This is all deliberate. I was actually looking at subscribing to CBS' streaming service down the line so I could watch their Star Trek exclusives but I don't think I will now.
 
Soundmind;4243765 said:
So Roger Friedman, who is in bed with the estate, tried to be as neutral as one can be in his review and still he stopped short of saying he believed them. He is waiting for the public reaction before he officially takes a side. A snake once a snake always.
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I read Friedman’s review and I found it balanced and reasonable. I think that’s the best reaction we can hope for from people. If that ends up being the popular opinion, that’s fine. Definitely better than what was in the New York Times today.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Oh it seames that Channel 4 has also aired an interview with wade and James three hours ago!!!
We need someone like durex who reuploads us all the videos secretly!

I saw parts of The Wade & James cbs interview on ET canada.

Yesterday the two ET canada journalists were scepitcal now they belives them!

Sorry summer!
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Seems that they are pushing this, let's push back. The harder they go, the hardest we go! When they go low, we go high!
 
Speed_Demon87;4243771 said:
Is this the same Friedman who used to post absolute rubbish in his articles about Michael around the trial etc?

I’ve been out the loop for a while! When did he switch sides?

I thought he was up there with Sneddon and Diamond?
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I’ve been out of the loop too. I can’t remember anymore who is who. But I found the review balanced, because he explicitly points out Robson’s potential motive and stresses his previous adamant denials that anything ever happened. Plus, he shows compassion for Michael’s kids and even the fans. Almost sounds like he hopes the whole thing will blow over.

What his motivation is, I have no idea. I am just saying that I would rather have people read his piece than what was in NYT today or in the WaPo or even the CBS piece with the Jacksons.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

i just called my TV Provider (spectrum) and removed HBO and all other movie channels. I also let them know why i did it. Not that they care, but it's little by little that we can make a difference.
#leavingHBO NOW.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

There was a pic on here last night of McManus with her Neverland pass and locks of hair.

I'm not sure if it was in a Twitter link or post....can someone link it to me if they know where it is?

Edit: Its OK,got it.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

We can not be so quick to think people believe these guys. The TRUE test is all next week. This has to be taken down line by line. To be honest, that is normal; but after it airs, that is when the real work begin and everything starts to be discected.
 
Boltzmann;4243751 said:
The problem is that most people are not going to dig around the internet for information. The Jacksons were ok on CBS, but if the gist of their defence is “we know our bother - he would never do this”, it just won’t be enough.
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Brandi jackson's story is one of the best.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Carmour260 said:
Seems that they are pushing this, let's push back. The harder they go, the hardest we go! When they go low, we go high!
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And we have to tell these guys and their families had 5 years to practice these lies. I still believe there is going to be a silver lining that is going to work in Michael's favor that going to work out for him.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

There should be a rebuttal that refute what they say. Joy and Chanttal apparently has changed their stories. If Wade was lying to them then why did they lie also in 2005? The estate should hire investigators to look into Safechuck family and their behaviour after MJ's death.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

We need some more professional youtubers doing rebuttle videos.
 
Boltzmann;4243691 said:
I haven’t been on here in years, so don’t know if anybody remembers me - but no matter.

This thing is bad news and not likely to go away. It hasn’t even aired on HBO yet, but it already has coverage in the mainstream media - New York Times, Washington Post. Oprah is supposedly interviewing Robson and Safechuck. Wait until it actually airs, the fallout will be overwhelming.

All I can say is that this will do damage and I don’t think any effort by the family or fandom is likely to move the needle. Simply because the preconception is that the fans and family will defend Michael no matter what. On the other hand, Robson and Safechuck sound credible and most people think Michael was weird anyway. It won’t take much to convince them - a carefully filmed, sympathetic account is more than enough.

I see no path to rehabilitation absent explicit evidence of a coordinated, intentional smear campaign by Robson and Safechuck. And I don’t see how anybody proves that. Alternatively, perhaps emphatic statements by other men who were boys around Michael might help. But even that is suspect, because the argument would be that just because he didn’t molest “Johnny”, that doesn’t mean he didn’t molest Wade.

Basically Michael Jackson’s legacy can’t win and the fandom has to prepare for a new normal - much like the environment around the trial. But this time with no hope of redemption.

Sorry for the dark sentiments.
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Hello Dan Reed. Enjoying the discussion?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

terrell said:
We can not be so quick to think people believe these guys. The TRUE test is all next week. This has to be taken down line by line. To be honest, that is normal; but after it airs, that is when the real work begin and everything starts to be discected.
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Don't pay attention to trolls on here. When ever we get any sort of positive reaction from the media or any kind of support, all of the sudden posts appear on here by unknown posters telling us how "this is the end of MJ's legacy" and how "We won't win" and "Everyone will believe it" and "This time there will be no redemption." What a coincidence....NOT. Pay them no mind.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Some people just are rotten to the core, for some people you just wish the worst and I certainly do for three people at the moment.

This was ****ing supposed to be the year where we celebrate the man and his amazing art. Oh but **** that, we still are going to do exactly that!

Worst case scenario is a very negative reaction from the general public next week. We will just go ahead and live our lives and stay loving the man and his amazing work. All the rest is irrelevant! Let the music stay on streaming services, let the radio still play it and we're good. If not, **** them all to hell.

Sorry.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Summer I already posted that ET canada now belives Wade and James after their cbs interview.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

What surprises me the most is the apparent radio silence from Safechuck's friends or associates.

Plenty of people have come out against Robson, but absolutely no one has offered commentary on Safechuck. Surely someone has to have an opinion on this?
 
summer;4243787 said:
Hello Dan Reed. Enjoying the discussion?
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I am not Dan Reed. I have been a fan for 30 years. But that doesn’t mean that I have blinders on and can’t see the public opinion on this.

It pains me to go through this a third time. It was hell in 93, much worse in 2002-2005 and here we go again.

The general public is primed to accept this story and absent energetic and persuasive action by believable and convincing people, Michael’s legacy will be tarnished. That’s obvious. Recognising and saying this doesn’t make me the enemy.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

On the German MJ memorial in munic is everthing allright!


There are new snips from a third/fourth interview with the Jackson Family where marlon wears a red cap and a grey jacket other three are in black.
I think we will see the full one tomorrow.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Hi guys
First time posting here.
I noticed something while watching the trailer for LN.

That clip of Michael wishing Robson a happy birthday seems strange. His mouth does not quite match the words he is saying. Especially, towards the end. Just before he says "I love you", he does a little laugh under his breath. If you look at his mouth then, it does not quite match. I thought this was interesting. With today's technology, you can literally change a person's mouth and voice to have them say whatever you want!

I did some more digging.
It is interesting that in the clip, Michael is wearing a particular jacket. We all know Michael rarely wore the same clothes more than once or twice.
The jacket he is wearing in the video were work on the following days at these events:

February 20 1990: dinner at regency hotel
April 6 1990: white house

Why would Michael be wearing this jacket on Robson's birthday, which is September 7

Surely the jacket would have been in storage by then or given back to Michael bush. There are no more examples of Michael wearing the jacket after April 6

The plot thickens....

Michael wore the jacket at a dinner held in his honor at the regency hotel on February 20 1990

The next day, February 21, the Grammy awards were being held.
Michael was nominated for 2 awards. One for "Leave Me Alone" and one for "Moonwalker"
Moonwalker won an award....but...
Michael did not attend the ceremony to accept the award....

Now, there are dozens of examples of Michael winning an award and could not attend the show. So, what did he do,? ...he always sent them a video of him thanking the fans, etc....

My theory is...

Michael could not attend the Grammy awards on February 21
So on February 20 (while wearing that same jacket at the regency hotel), he filmed his acceptance video.

We have never seen this video before, so maybe he never sent the video or it was not shown during the edited televised version of the show.

Maybe, Reed somehow got a copy of Michaels award acceptance video and has manipulated it for the documentary.

I noticed one more thing..
There are just 2 times Michael wore this jacket.
February 20 1990
April 6 1990

In the video, his hairy is curly

If you look at pictures and videos of February 20, his hair is curly

If you look at pictures Nd videos of April 6 , his hair is straight

So it looks like the video was filmed on February 20 1990 at the regency hotel

Also, in the clip in the documentary, they zoom in closer to Michaels face a few times. It could be for dramatic effect....or it could be because at certain times in the video, you could see the Michael holding the Grammy award he had just won, so they zoomed in to crop it out.

It would be interesting to see if Michael bush has any records on when Michael gave the jacket back to him.

Sorry for the long post. I just thought this was very interesting.

I believe reed somehow got a copy of the unaired Grammy award acceptance speech video and has manipulated to his liking. The technology exists now to be able to do this. Also, don't forget, fan works in the film industry. He knows people that might have access to footage we have never seem , like this clip.
 
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