Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[analogue]

Who actually claims in that article he was terrible to his employees and to his fans after the trial? Truly the first time I read such a thing. I've a real hard time believing that.

The employees who claim he was terrible to them were usually the people who had an ax to grind. The one's who never had an ax to grind spoke very fondly of him

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Oh it's Roger Friedman claiming that about his employees, really how would he even know that? I can never tell really what Roger's goal is. He talked a lot of shit when Mike was alive. But I've now seen several positive pieces by him lately.

The employees who claim he was terrible to them were usually the people who had an ax to grind. The one's who never had an ax to grind spoke very fondly of him

That makes a lot of sense yeah. Quite curious that Roger has to bring that up.

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

Oh there were no experts in the documentary???
Only wade, james and their family members???

What a bad documentary!!! Experts
belong in every documantary in my opinion!

 

[deanryan100]

Oh it's Roger Friedman claiming that about his employees, really how would he even know that? I can never tell really what Roger's goal is. He talked a lot of shit when Mike was alive. But I've now seen several positive pieces by him lately.

Roger was negative up until MJ's appollo performance in 2002, then after that he seemed to totally change. I think when he saw him perform live it had a big impact on him.

 

[analogue]

Dangerous Tour rehearsals shows how Michael treated his employees. He was incredibly nice and patient, and he didn't once raise his voice. And those rehearsal tapes were never meant to be released to the public, so it's not like Michael was just putting on an act to look good.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

So that was a pretty shitty interview. The interviewer clearly already believed them and kept talking about it as if it were face. Taj's segment was also pre recorded.

 

[L.T.D]

I'm amazed Taj agreed to appear on BBC Television considering they commissioned there own documentary against MJ.

Right now it's more important to get the truth out there as much as possible. I'll hate Dan Reeds face as long as I live.

 

[athina_livadi]

“Leaving Neverland” Second Night was a BUST With Fewer than 1 Million Viewers, Oprah Part Scored Just 780K

Yikes! The second night of “Leaving Neverland” was worse than the first.

Only 927.000 people watched. The audience didn’t break 1 million. Oprah’s “After Neverland” did worse–780,000.

Viewers rejected the stories of Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck. I’m amazed. I really thought this would be a blockbuster.

But the overall negativity and pointlessness of the documentary left audiences cold.

This is very important: no victim of sexual abuse should ever be disbelieved, or ignored. Everyone should share their stories, and there is no shame.

But “Leaving Neverland” broke several conventions of documentary. It functioned not as journalism but as a personal grudge. I expected lie detector tests to show the veracity of the claims. But there were none.

There was also no context provided. No medical or psychological expert to explain how Jackson could have been one way with so many other children, and this way with Safechuck and Robson.

Also, you can never underestimate the power of the Michael Jackson fans. They’ve organized before to fend off Jackson accusers. I’ve seen some pretty ill informed criticism of them by people who were in foreign territory.

Michael Jackson was no angel. I watched him do a lot of crazy and mean things over the years. He was terrible to his employees at Neverland and Hayvenhurst. He wasn’t so nice to the fans when his trial was over. They thought they’d be going to a picnic at Neverland. Michael just shut the gates and left.

There’s more to say, but for right now, it’s instructive to see how ratings bottomed out.

https://www.showbiz411.com/2019/03/...-was-a-bust-with-fewer-than-1-million-viewers

(???? at the remarks about the employees and the 'expected' picnic. I'd have thought everyone would realise that MJ would be 'all in' after the trial finished, and I did read that fans were invited near / before the beginning of the trial).

My answer to him:

Mr. Friedman I have been following your articles on Michael since 2009. I experienced the trial as many people did and as you did from the view of an objective I like to believe journalist. I would like to point out that Michael has never treated fans badly. On the contrary, he has fired members of his staff for mistreating his fans. Imagine if you were in his shoes and you had just been acquitted of 14 counts in the court of law after been through hell for years. You would like some peace and quiet with yourself, your children. Michael never ever treated us unfairly and we are always by his side with facts not fictions. We are always by his side out of love and respect not for money grabing and ratings!
Truth always prevails!!!

 

[L.T.D]

So that was a pretty shitty interview. The interviewer clearly already believed them and kept talking about it as if it were face. Taj's segment was also pre recorded.

Yep, clearly showed which side she favoured, I know her type.

 

[CeyEntertainment]

I don't know why, but from day one I have a feeling that the estate should release an unreleased track! - Right now.
Should we start a petition?

 

[aqwsz]

So that was a pretty shitty interview. The interviewer clearly already believed them and kept talking about it as if it were face. Taj's segment was also pre recorded.

So Taj wasn't there?

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Oh there were no experts in the documentary???
Only wade, james and their family members???

What a bad documentary!!! Experts
belong in every documantary in my opinion!

It's so clearly a mockumentary and I'm glad it was a flop for HBO, serves them right. Oprah did her have own little expert apparently, but so far I've heard very little about how all that went on. Hopefully some in the audience saw through it.

Dangerous Tour rehearsals shows how Michael treated his employees. He was incredibly nice and patient, and he didn't once raise his voice. And those rehearsal tapes were never meant to be released to the public, so it's not like Michael was just putting on an act to look good.

Exactly, good point there! Plus This is it, that shows how great he was with his people too.

So that was a pretty shitty interview. The interviewer clearly already believed them and kept talking about it as if it were face. Taj's segment was also pre recorded.

Wait, it wasn't a sit down with both Taj and Reed at the same time after all or is this a different one you speak of?

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

This is thee same campaign like in the us with cbs.
They simply wanna sell LN and stories about it.
Everthing they care about are ratings and follwering MJ documentarys they can sell were they wanna use LN footage.

Was it relly allowed to show so much MJ footage in the documentary?

 

[Scream]

Yikes! The second night of “Leaving Neverland” was worse than the first. Only 927.000 people watched. The audience didn’t break 1 million. Oprah’s “After Neverland” did worse–780,000.

An absolute flop in every sense of the word. I honestly expected 10 million viewers plus easily. But this? An absolute catastrophe on their part.
I hope Oprah feels mighty stupid right now. She went all in on this and it failed spectacularly.

 

[CeyEntertainment]

An absolute flop in every sense of the word. I honestly expected 10 million viewers plus easily. But this? An absolute catastrophe on their part.
I hope Oprah feels mighty stupid right now. She went all in on this and it failed spectacularly.

exactly!

 

[myosotis]

So, In Newsnight, Taj and Reed were interviewed separately.
Reed seemed to have more time (and Interviewer 'sympathy' ) to me. Interviewer said from the film, 'you get a sense of how devastating this has been to all their family relationships.' (Apparently they are 'all' in therapy).

Things that Reed said that sounded 'odd' to me were:
1. On grooming the families, and especially the mothers: 'Jackson was like a son to them ' (Really???)

2. (On Wade realising the so called abuse after he had children) : For Wade, Michael was like a father figure, and / as well as a former sexual partner (Not sure of his exact words, but putting the two things together sounded odd).

3. (On being asked why the Jackson family / Estate were not included in the film) : 'The lawyers appear in the film and rebut the allegations'.

(which of course they don't as these allegations were never made in MJ's lifetime. Reed sure has his lies 'off pat').

Taj seemed to cover all the bases (money, previous defence of MJ, security cameras at Neverland never picked up anything etc), but he was left with saying ' they have no evidence'. As the interviewer says, all of these allegations relate to times long past, so the interviewer implied that she wouldn't expect there to be any evidence. I don't think he was given enough time to say much / anything about the conflicts within the court case docs.

Taj also said he had only seen clips, and read the transcript of the film, because he'd been on a plane when it aired in the US.

Reed said that Robson had wanted his mother to watch the whole documentary, including the explicit parts, and Joy apparently did watch it all on TV on Sunday night. So nice of a son to put his mother through all that (especially since it is UNtrue!!)

Oh yes, I forgot to say that Reed denied that R or S were being paid anything for the film. He didn't respond to the part of the question that asked about money from the Estate.

 

[analogue]

Exactly, good point there! Plus This is it, that shows how great he was with his people too.

When the band messes up a little at the end of TWYMMF, Michael just smiles and laughs a little and says ''That's why we rehearse. It's okay, it's okay'' - He must have been awful to work for lol

 

[Glanni]

where can i download LN part 2 crap and the oprah shit?

cansomeone send me links?

mega preferred

 

[SeeingVoices]

The BBC2 interview was an outrage!!

Completely and utterly one sided. Reed gets such an easy time - literally no push back at all from the interviewer. She had clearly seen the documentary and was purely using this as her reference point. Quite frankly she was an utter cow. When asked if there was any financial gain from the documentary or estate he partially answered saying that he has made sure the men did not receieve payment - neglecting the fact that they have an outstanding lawsuit on appeal. And if anyone in their right mind believes that this doc is being sold to every major network around the world and W&S stand to receive nothing, then their in denial!

Reed is 100% using the Metoo movement to make this stick. He emphasised that in 2019 we should wholeheartedly accept reports of abuse without question. This is being sold as undeniable truth and the fact that people are confidently reaffirming this is terrifies me.

Taj, again - done his best. It's clear to see that he struggles when faced with difficult questions. He's often hesitant and his rebuttles aren't the strongest. He did throw in that he found it unusual that Wade would ask for an invitation to MJ's funeral, and continue to involve himself w/MJ tributes for years to follow. Despite his efforts the interviewer dimissed this stressing that victims often still have a strong affilation to their abusers after death. It was clear to see that the interviewer was not on his side and even questioned how he would feel if someone was to question the sexual abuse he suffered (he disclosed this during the interview).The more interviews I watch I'm getting a strong sense of snobbery, implying what would we know about the mind of a victim. It's like they are hiding behind complexities of phsychology to fill the wild inconsistencies.


I'm of the opinion that the family should avoid this subject now. I understand that Taj feels a duty to defend MJ but it's not having the desired effect as he's not considered impartial. We need someone representing who is unwaivering in their delivery, completely educated in the current case and is not directly linked to the family. I stress the importance of this as the family are simply not taken seriously as they are perceived to have an agenda to keep MJ's legacy intact.

 

[Spike J]

We should help promote that Weinstein documentary.

THIS. If anything We can certanly control this narrative.

 

[AlwaysThere]

So apparently three Canadian radio stations dropped Michael's music.

As did one New Zealand station.

I'm starting to get worried, folks.

 

[Smooth72]

Oh it's Roger Friedman claiming that about his employees, really how would he even know that? I can never tell really what Roger's goal is. He talked a lot of shit when Mike was alive. But I've now seen several positive pieces by him lately.




That makes a lot of sense yeah. Quite curious that Roger has to bring that up.

Maybe he is referring to when it was stated the employees were not paid for quite sometime and stuck around and worked. I remember this being mentioned back in the day

 

[SmoothGangsta]

So apparently three Canadian radio stations dropped Michael's music.

As did one New Zealand station.

I'm starting to get worried, folks.

It's a bandwagon thing. They have legit no basis for doing it. I expect it to be reversed at some point.

 

[Scream]

Don't watch any media expecting it to be fair, it's not going to be.
I've told you, guilty Michael is a profitable Michael for the tabloids, that's the agenda they've been told to push. Right now we should be celebrating the documentary completely bombing, this is good news that we never could've expected. Tomorrow night it all starts again, but for tonight relax and realise that we got a major victory today.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

So I was on Xbox Live and someone joined the party, a person I didn't know but a buddy of a buddy of mine. At that moment I was discussing all this with my friend who's also a huge fan and supporter.

This guy got into the discussion and to make a long story short he said

"I heard you guys mentioning that he was not guilty in 2005. But I did read that a few days after that verdict two jurors started claiming that they regretted the decision and that they weren't so sure they would have decided this again."

And I do recall something along the lines of that but wasn't that just a ridiculous fabricated tabloid story? Didn't the jury members not too long ago say they'd make the exact decision today?

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

Please comment under this emotional video from a sexual abused victim to LN.

The channel has many subscribers.

 

[L.T.D]

Heart 80’s U.K. have stopped playing MJ it seems. I’ve heard MJ 3-4 times a day on that station up until Sunday.... then nothing since.

Theres no way that lasts, their whole station is dedicated to 80's. He WAS the 80's.

If any stations do stop playing him it'll be temporary, cant imagine it lasting more than 2 weeks after the documentary has aired all over the world.

 

[Scream]

Heart 80’s U.K. have stopped playing MJ it seems. I’ve heard MJ 3-4 times a day on that station up until Sunday.... then nothing since.

Ha. Good luck with that. Michael Jackson was the 80's.
I haven't seen any public outcry demanding this, so it seems kinda silly. Again, lets see if this is still the case in a couple of weeks. I'd wager that it won't be.

 

[myosotis]

So sad this TV release was timed for the week of the 10th anniversary of MJ's TII announcement. Not by accident, I'm sure.

 

[innuendo141]

So apparently three Canadian radio stations dropped Michael's music.

As did one New Zealand station.

I'm starting to get worried, folks.

Thats nothing compared to what could have happened. This has aired in the US already. No major fallout

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