Coroners Report released - GRAPHIC CONTENT (Threads merged)

[Beachlover]

Pepsi Burn is more than a scar. It was a huge problem for Michael. All they had was a little diagram pointing to where it was?
[/B]

And clearly, in life, the Pepsi burn was a problem for Michael.

However, think about this logically. This was an autopsy that was talking about his death. Did the burn scar he got all those years ago mean anything in the scheme of cause of death?

The poor mans health issues are now all over the internet. He didn't ask for this and from such a private man it seems wrong that we are all dissecting his every inch.

I try to help people understand who really want to know what happened, but you seem to have a sinister agenda there to prove something.

I am going to drop this now because I don't like the tone of how you and your friends speak to me. Maybe when you grow up to be an adult and have your own life experiences you will understand things better. I hope so.

 

[meena76]

I suggest if your comment is not about the coroners report then don't post, please...

 

[ivy]

- The body was in a hospital gown. Why would they stop resuscitative efforts to change his clothes into a hospital gown ? Everyone very much doubts he wasn’t wearing any bottoms or undies when he was put under. And he would obviously not be wearing a hospital gown either originally.

everybody doubts that, really? according to autopsy he had a IV at his knee and a condom catheter on his penis. I don't know about a shirt but I don't see how he could be wearing any bottoms or undies.

 

[bowen9999]

I would love for there to have been a big conspiracy to kill Michael that would Michael did not have any blame in what happened to him. But the bottom line is this Michael made a mistake asking for Propofol and it cost him his life. And I think he only asked for it because it worked for him before and nothing happened. I can understand his point of view he thought he would be safe if a doctor was there to watch him. The guy could not sleep he was working hard trying to make these shows perfect we now know he had his Dad on his back trying to screw everything up the guy was desperate for sleep and thought this was the only thing that could help him. Michael made a mistake and he paid for it now having said all of that Conrad Murray being a dude who had no idea what he was doing but did it anyway it is time for him to pay for being greedy stupid, selfish, irresponsible, and selling his hipaa oath.

Wow.... you should go & ask the defence team for a job! They'd love to have you work for them. This place is seriously unbelieveable. Between you and Beachlover, you're giving Murray his defence right here! :no:

I'm out.

 

[Mechi]

I suggest if your comment is not about the coroners report then don't post, please...

honestly meena I feel sorry for you.

If the 'Michael asked for propofol' argumentation goes on you can move the whole thing into the IU... cuz this is not more or less speculation than the whole conspiracy thinking.

Yep some ppl said Michael asked for it but all those had a clear motive to do so to cover up there own asses and even more professional responsibility.

Well ppl are free to believe what they want to believe and it is their choice of reasons, so be it.

But it's also completely off topic.

If Michael asked for it or if he didn't ask for it has clearly nothing to do with the coroners report.

Maybe this thread has run its course? When all is said and done then all is said and done.
ok just my :2cents: couldn't resist.

 

[daisy]

The poor mans

You mean our dearest, most adorable Michael?

 

[Beachlover]

You mean our dearest, most adorable Michael?

No. I don't treat him or anyone that way. He was my favorite entertainer, I loved him very much, but I said what I meant.

 

[daisy]

No. I don't treat him or anyone that way. He was my favorite entertainer, I loved him very much, but I said what I meant.

Just felt very cold.
nevermind.

 

[Beachlover]

Wow.... you should go & ask the defence team for a job! They'd love to have you work for them. This place is seriously unbelieveable. Between you and Beachlover, you're giving Murray his defence right here! :no:

I'm out.

First of all, how is pointing out the truth defending anyone? I don't understand that and if you can actually show me where I am defending Murray, I would be more inclined to take you seriously.

The autopsy is an official medical documentation. It is meant to show a cause of death. As a medical person I do understand and have tried to explain things but many people here, for whatever reason, aren't happy with it and are now trying to say that it is wrong. Whatever.

I have pointed out that many drugs are not on the tox screen. There are cardiac drugs that were not tested, or at least not listed. Someone did ask what is not listed. The atropene and epinephrine are not listed. Thats only 2 I can think of off the top of my head but there are thousands of drugs out there that could have been given in the hospital or by the EMT or anyone else. They tested the drugs they found at the scene.

There is ephedrine found in the urine and it was tested because it was found in Murrays bag, but I would not say it is the same pill because that was a combination drug and the aspirin was tested and NOT found. I assume Murray took this to stay awake while working nights but thats an assumption on my part.

This thread is a great reference for everyone who wants to really understand what happened but now it is becoming over run with people who wish to push their own theories. That is unfortunate.

 

[Beachlover]

Just felt very cold.
nevermind.

No Daisy, its not cold at all. I said exactly what I meant and even when I show the slightest sympathy you will still find a way to pick me apart. I said nothing wrong and was totally respectful. More so than those who are picking apart every little thing.

Thats sad really. I am no less of a fan than anyone else here, but I don't idolize and I don't speak the same way as you do.

It is becoming more and more apparent that certain members of this forum wish to push their agendas and in doing so, they don't want the actual truth.

 

[RainbowAngel]

Wow.... you should go & ask the defence team for a job! They'd love to have you work for them. This place is seriously unbelieveable. Between you and Beachlover, you're giving Murray his defence right here! :no:

I'm out.

Hi, I hope I can explain,
Justthefacts said that because he/she have not much understanding and information on all the updates on the homicide case. Very similiar to the public who were manipulated by the media who are trying to paint Mj as some sort of drug addict. There is really no need to accuse anyone here of defending Murray. Just explain that his/her thinking was wrong.

Beachlover is different however, she clearly knows the facts and keep herself up to date with the homicide investigation. She is aware that Murray is at fault for not doing his job properly and he was the who is resposible for MJ's death. However, she is more of a medical professional and this kind of people are do not let the sadnest of reading the autopsy to affect their reasoning skills. Imaging working in a hospital and have to see people die everyday, they cannot be too sad, they just have to continue working. She presents her disscussions according to her understanding of the autopsy report. I don't see she is in anyway defending Murray.

 

[adrianmonk]

Hi, I hope I can explain,
Justthefacts said that because he/she have not much understanding and information on all the updates on the homicide case. Very similiar to the public who were manipulated by the media who are trying to paint Mj as some sort of drug addict. There is really no need to accuse anyone here of defending Murray. Just explain that his/her thinking was wrong.

Beachlover is different however, she clearly knows the facts and keep herself up to date with the homicide investigation. She is aware that Murray is at fault for not doing his job properly and he was the who is resposible for MJ's death. However, she is more of a medical professional and this kind of people are do not let the sadnest of reading the autopsy to affect their reasoning skills. Imaging working in a hospital and have to see people die everyday, they cannot be too sad, they just have to continue working. She presents her disscussions according to her understanding of the autopsy report. I don't see she is in anyway defending Murray.

that's the way i see it too... i don't see how providing medical answers is supporting murray at all... i dont understand why the same thing is being posted over and over when answers have been provided... also a lot of questions in here do not seem to be relevant to the autopsy, like about the warrants and such??? so I do not see how those are inconsistencies in the autopsy, in the case, sure but this thread is about the autopsy

 

[daisy]

No Daisy, its not cold at all. I said exactly what I meant and even when I show the slightest sympathy you will still find a way to pick me apart. I said nothing wrong and was totally respectful. More so than those who are picking apart every little thing.

Thats sad really. I am no less of a fan than anyone else here, but I don't idolize and I don't speak the same way as you do.

It is becoming more and more apparent that certain members of this forum wish to push their agendas and in doing so, they don't want the actual truth.

For me it sounded cold and weired and I just stated how I felt about it. It has nothing to do with truth or no truth about the autopsy report.

In that , you can consider this OT.

 

[ensleyave]

You are right. If you are in the medical profession I guest you can't have human feelings.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

can ppl stop turning this thread into something from the IU section if u want to discuss certain points then create a thread in that section and go on about being unshaven or not in there. not in here.

 

[Ohood]

maybe this story from the interview with Jesse Jackson explains the bruises on MJ's lungs:

Michael Jackson: I was coming, er, out of the shower and I-I-I fell. And all my body weight, and I’m pretty fragile, all my body weight fell against my rib cage. And I pretty much, er, er, I bruised my lung very badly. My lung is on the right, it’s very [sp], it’s, I’m in pain as we speak and ah, I’ve been going to court everyday in immense pain and agonizing pain. And I sit there – and I’m strong, I try to be as strong as I can. So I can, ahh, but what we are looking for is the coughing of blood now. The doctor said I should – he said it’s still very dangerous as we speak, and if I cough the blood, he said it’s a very dangerous thing, so we’re, we’re still watching it very closely.

Michael Jackson: You know the – there’s no faking with this at all. I mean there was a scan done and you could see, uhhh, the swelling on my whole rib cage, I mean, uh, it was you could see it and it’s bright red. And how it, it [the fall] busted my chin, and it put a huge gash over my forehead, blood, it was er, it was very bad actually. And er, but errr, we’ve treating it actually, I do have some medicine for it, but we are watching it very closely.

http://www.mjfanclub.net/home/index...5&catid=100:interviews-and-speeches&Itemid=79

 

[Soundmind]

Justthefacts is much more educated on the facts of this case than of those who say she's not . She has just posted an article on MJ and Murray going to a doctor in Vegas to ask for propofol .

MJ took it before , and since the doctor who gave it before did take all the precautions into consideration , MJ survived and felt it was safe. Little did he know that Murray was a piece of shit , who cared only about money and did not even bother to have the necessary equipment to revive or even stay in that room watching him .

Dr.Adams himself said Murray gave propofol a bad name when it's one of the best sedatives available .

Murray was with MJ since december 2008, he moved to LA with his girlfriend . He was going from doctor to other asking them to join him on the medical team for the concerts , Lee asked andrefused, Adams asked and refused Murray was the only constant beside MJ .

 

[daisy]

Why did all of these doctors refuse? How do you think?

 

[riviera1992]

Why did all of these doctors refuse? How do you think?

If it's factual that those doctors refused, I'd also like to know details.

Was it only a case of not wanting to uproot your family to go to another country for a long time? Most likely.

Or the fact they thought it was unethical to use propofol outside a hospital?

 

[daisydaisy]

Can someone help me locate the information released on the oxygen tank and masks found in Michael's room? I thought it was in the coroner's report but cannot find it now, maybe it was in an article released around the same time. I'm interested in finding out where it describes what mask was found with the tank.

 

[Naturelle]

maybe this story from the interview with Jesse Jackson explains the bruises on MJ's lungs:

Michael Jackson: I was coming, er, out of the shower and I-I-I fell. And all my body weight, and I’m pretty fragile, all my body weight fell against my rib cage. And I pretty much, er, er, I bruised my lung very badly. My lung is on the right, it’s very [sp], it’s, I’m in pain as we speak and ah, I’ve been going to court everyday in immense pain and agonizing pain. And I sit there – and I’m strong, I try to be as strong as I can. So I can, ahh, but what we are looking for is the coughing of blood now. The doctor said I should – he said it’s still very dangerous as we speak, and if I cough the blood, he said it’s a very dangerous thing, so we’re, we’re still watching it very closely.

Michael Jackson: You know the – there’s no faking with this at all. I mean there was a scan done and you could see, uhhh, the swelling on my whole rib cage, I mean, uh, it was you could see it and it’s bright red. And how it, it [the fall] busted my chin, and it put a huge gash over my forehead, blood, it was er, it was very bad actually. And er, but errr, we’ve treating it actually, I do have some medicine for it, but we are watching it very closely.

http://www.mjfanclub.net/home/index...5&catid=100:interviews-and-speeches&Itemid=79

Thank you Ohood, It does explain what I was referring to in another thread about Michael not trusting Sony & co.

 

[sophie]

Can someone help me locate the information released on the oxygen tank and masks found in Michael's room? I thought it was in the coroner's report but cannot find it now, maybe it was in an article released around the same time. I'm interested in finding out where it describes what mask was found with the tank.

i found this in the coroner's report:

scene description, p3:
A green oxygen tank was also on the side of the bed. [...] An ambu-bag and latex gloves lay on the floor next to the bed.

anesthesiology consultation, p31:
A tank of oxygen with some kind of non-rebreathing bag with a clear plastic mask (for positive pressure ventilation) was near where the patient was found by the paramedics. This tank was empty when examined on 7/13/09. A non-rebreathing bag was not attached when the tank was examined.

 

[Soundmind]

maybe this story from the interview with Jesse Jackson explains the bruises on MJ's lungs:

they did state early in the autopsy report that the hemorrhagic lungs were caused by resuscitation efforts

 

[daisydaisy]

i found this in the coroner's report:

scene description, p3:
A green oxygen tank was also on the side of the bed. [...] An ambu-bag and latex gloves lay on the floor next to the bed.

anesthesiology consultation, p31:
A tank of oxygen with some kind of non-rebreathing bag with a clear plastic mask (for positive pressure ventilation) was near where the patient was found by the paramedics. This tank was empty when examined on 7/13/09. A non-rebreathing bag was not attached when the tank was examined.

Thank you. I knew I read it somewhere in the report!

 

[mj_smile]

[SIZE=-1]I guess some information are helpful .. btw. I'm not a [/SIZE]medical profession!
[SIZE=-1]
Source: U.S. National Library of Medicine [/SIZE]

Profofol - CASRN: 2078-54-8

Range of Toxicity:

A) Propofol is an intravenous anesthetic agent with sedative-hypnotic properties. Following a 2 to 2.5 mg/kg dose, loss of consciousness occurs in less than 1 minute and lasts for approximately 5 minutes. Blood concentrations rapidly decline due to extensive distribution, consequently blood level measurements may not be useful.

<noindex>[SIZE=1][Rumack BH POISINDEX(R) Information System Micromedex,Inc.,Englewood, CO,2010; CCIS Volume 143, edition expires Feb, 2010. Hall AH & Rumack BH (Eds): TOMES(R) Information System Micromedex, Inc., Englewood, CO, 2010; CCIS Volume 143, edition expires Feb, 2010.][/SIZE]</noindex>

<noindex></noindex>

Antidote and Emergency Treatment:

If overdosage occurs, /propofol/... injectable emulsion administration should be discontinued immediately. Overdosage is likely to cause cardiorespiratory depression. Respiratory depression should be treated by artificial ventilation with oxygen. Cardiovascular depression may require repositioning of the patient by raising the patients legs, increasing the flow rate of iv fluids, and administering pressor agents and/or anticholinergic agents.

<noindex>[Medical Economics Co; Physicians Desk Reference 56th ed p. 667 (2002)]</noindex>

Absorption, Distribution & Excretion:

Approximately 70% of a dose is excreted in the urine within 24 hours after administration, and 90% is excreted within 5 days. Clearance of propofol ranges from 1.6 to 3.4 liters per minute in healthy 70 kg patients. As the age of the patient increases, total clearance of propofol may decrease. Clearance rates of 1.4 to 2.2 liters per minute in patients 18 to 35 years of age have been reported, in contrast to clearance rates of 1.0 to 1.8 liters per minute in patients 65 to 80 years of age.

<noindex>[MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care. USPDI - Drug Information for the Health Care Professional. 22nd ed. Volume 1. MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care, Greenwood Village, CO. 2002. Content Reviewed and Approved by the U.S. Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., p. 2467]</noindex>

<noindex></noindex>

Biological Half-Life:

Terminal elimination half-life is 3 to 12 hours; prolonged administration may result in longer duration.

<noindex>[SIZE=1][MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care. USPDI - Drug Information for the Health Care Professional. 22nd ed. Volume 1. MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care, Greenwood Village, CO. 2002. Content Reviewed and Approved by the U.S. Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., p. 2467][/SIZE] </noindex>

...The first-stage elimination half-life (t1/2 beta) of propofol /SRP: administered mixed with lidocaine/ in children was shorter (mean 9.3 +/- 3.8 (s.d.) min) than the values found in adults. This pharmacokinetic alteration may have clinical significance following repeated administration or continuous infusion of propofol.

<noindex>[Valtonen M, et al; Acta Anaesthesiol Scand 33 (2): 152-5 (1989)]</noindex>

An intravenous dose of 14C-propofol (0.47 mg/kg) /was/ administered to six male volunteers... . ...The half-lives of the first and second exponential phases, mean values 5 min and 97 min respectively, varied widely among subjects.

<noindex>[Simons P, Cockshott I; Xenobiotica 18 (4): 429-40 (1988)]</noindex>

Therapeutic Uses:

Propofol is indicated for the induction of general anesthesia. It is also indicated for the maintenance of anesthesia utilizing balanced techniques with other appropriate agents such as opioids and inhalation anesthetics.

<noindex>[MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care. USPDI - Drug Information for the Health Care Professional. 22nd ed. Volume 1. MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care, Greenwood Village, CO. 2002. Content Reviewed and Approved by the U.S. Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., p. 2466]</noindex>

Propofol is indicated for the sedation in critically ill patients confined to intensive care units.

<noindex>[MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care. USPDI - Drug Information for the Health Care Professional. 22nd ed. Volume 1. MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care, Greenwood Village, CO. 2002. Content Reviewed and Approved by the U.S. Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., p. 2466]</noindex>

<noindex></noindex>

Drug Warnings:

Propofol is a respiratory depressant, frequently producing apnea that may persist longer than 60 seconds, depending on factors such as premedication, rate of administration, dose administered, and presence of hyperventilation or hyperoxia. In addition propofol may produce significant decreases in respiratory rate, minute volume, tidal volume, mean inspiratory flow rate, and functional residual capacity.

<noindex>[MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care. USPDI - Drug Information for the Health Care Professional. 22nd ed. Volume 1. MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care, Greenwood Village, CO. 2002. Content Reviewed and Approved by the U.S. Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., p. 2467]</noindex>

Propofol should not be mixed with other therapeutic agents or with blood, plasma, or serum. Aggregates of the emulsion have been found when propofol has been in contact with blood, plasma, or serum.

<noindex>[Trissel, L.A. Handbook on Injectable Drugs. 9th ed. Bethesda, MD. American Society of Health-System Pharmacists' Product Development. 1996., p. 951]</noindex>

Stability/Shelf Life:

Propofol is subject to oxidative degradation when exposed to oxygen. Intact containers are packaged using nitrogen to avoid oxygen exposure. if propofol is administered directly from the vial, administration should be completed within 12 hours after the vial is spiked. ... If Propofol emulsion is transferred to a syringe or other container prior to use, administration should be begun promptly and completed within six hours after the container is opened. After six hours, the product should be discarded and the lines should be flushed or discarded.

<noindex>[SIZE=1][Trissel, L.A. Handbook on Injectable Drugs. 9th ed. Bethesda, MD. American Society of Health-System Pharmacists' Product Development. 1996., p. 950[/SIZE]]</noindex>

Propofol injection contains 0.005% disodium edetate, but it is not an antimicrobially preserved product under USP standards. The vehicle is capable of supporting the rapid growth of microorganisms, and particulate or bacterial contamination may be difficult to detect because propofol injection is opaque. Therefore, strict aseptic technique must be maintained. Propofol injection shold be administered promptly after opening.

[MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care. USPDI - Drug Information for the Health Care Professional. 22nd ed. Volume 1. MICROMEDEX Thomson Health Care, Greenwood Village, CO. 2002. Content Reviewed and Approved by the U.S. Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., p. 2470]

<noindex>
</noindex>

 

[Beachlover]

You are right. If you are in the medical profession I guest you can't have human feelings.

And clearly, in life, the Pepsi burn was a problem for Michael.

However, think about this logically. This was an autopsy that was talking about his death. Did the burn scar he got all those years ago mean anything in the scheme of cause of death?

The poor mans health issues are now all over the internet. He didn't ask for this and from such a private man it seems wrong that we are all dissecting his every inch.

I try to help people understand who really want to know what happened, but you seem to have a sinister agenda there to prove something.

I am going to drop this now because I don't like the tone of how you and your friends speak to me. Maybe when you grow up to be an adult and have your own life experiences you will understand things better. I hope so.

That was my inhumane post. I don't see what is wrong with feeling that way at all. I stand firmly behind my words more now than ever because it is clear to me that some of you really do not want the truth told for whatever hidden reason you have. I have no idea.

 

[Autumn II]

The issue of the burn scar is actually very simple. It must have been his most obvious scar, and it was not mentioned in the autopsy report, while tiny scars of a quarter-of-an-inch were mentioned. The burn was originally the size of the palm of a man's hand, and then there were subsequent reconstructive surgeries.

This is an "if/then" situation. IF smaller scars were mentioned, but not the most obvious one, THEN, we can conclude that the autopsy report is incomplete or inaccurate in other areas. It's a question of logic.

Many things were noted in the autopsy report that had nothing to do with the cause(s) of his death. That is not all an autopsy report is for. It's "for" reporting on the overall condition of the body, as well. A scar by his knee was mentioned (which I don't think fans knew about? I didn't.)) But the scar on his head was not mentioned. We all DID know about that. No one could think that the scar by his knee had anything to do with his cause of death. I find it, at least somewhat strange that the burn scar was not mentioned?

 

[Beachlover]

The issue of the burn scar is actually very simple. It must have been his most obvious scar, and it was not mentioned in the autopsy report, while tiny scars of a quarter-of-an-inch were mentioned. The burn was originally the size of the palm of a man's hand, and then there were subsequent reconstructive surgeries.

This is an "if/then" situation. IF smaller scars were mentioned, but not the most obvious one, THEN, we can conclude that the autopsy report is incomplete or inaccurate in other areas. It's a question of logic.

Many things were noted in the autopsy report that had nothing to do with the cause(s) of his death. That is not all an autopsy report is for. It's "for" reporting on the overall condition of the body, as well. A scar by his knee was mentioned (which I don't think fans knew about? I didn't.)) But the scar on his head was not mentioned. We all DID know about that. No one could think that the scar by his knee had anything to do with his cause of death. I find it, at least somewhat strange that the burn scar was not mentioned?

Sometimes I really wonder if I got a different copy of the autopsy than the rest of you. The burn scar is on the diagram with the scars. It was not recent and maybe, just maybe, he had such good work done on it that it is just a simple scar now and not a major burn after how many years??

IT WAS MENTIONED.

 

[esther1972]

Sorry for you all but i really need to put my two cents in here for a minute... I really feel disgust that some of you keep blaming a person who just tries to explain things from a medical point of view for not having feelings... the people who are doing this should really be ashamed of themselfs.
I'm not saying this to attack others, but the attacks towards eachother have to stop. There is more than enough hurt going around already, there is no use in making it even worse.

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

Sorry for you all but i really need to put my two cents in here for a minute... I really feel disgust that some of you keep blaming a person who just tries to explain things from a medical point of view for not having feelings... the people who are doing this should really be ashamed of themselfs.
I'm not saying this to attack others, but the attacks towards eachother have to stop. There is more than enough hurt going around already, there is no use in making it even worse.

Sorry but I think you're a little out of the loop.

Sometimes I really wonder if I got a different copy of the autopsy than the rest of you. The burn scar is on the diagram with the scars. It was not recent and maybe, just maybe, he had such good work done on it that it is just a simple scar now and not a major burn after how many years??

IT WAS MENTIONED.

It was pointed at in a diagram but it isnt described nor is there any real detail about what would be the most notable scar on Michael's whole body and yet there are details of 1/4 in scars?

There are many things left out in the report that shouldnt be.

Including the tox report if memory serves me correctly as well as the cleft in Michael's chin. I forget the others atm but I have posted them.

And thankfully the Jackson family had a 2nd autopsy done.

What else did the autopsy leave out? Anything of importance? We wont know.