Dangerous 25: what would you like to see happen? [UNCONFIRMED]

[Zakk]

Most film archiving companies scan the original negatives at 4K resolution these days, even for 8/16mm.. and most obviously, 35mm too. If there are two shows from Michael's career that i would like to see in such definition it would be either Minneapolis/Wembley (July 14th/23rd)/Leeds/Liverpool/Hamburg 1988 or Tokyo 88/L.A 1989 & either Oviedo/Tokyo/Munich 1992 or Bangkok/Moscow 1993. Queen have 2 Blu-Ray shows out from 1981 & 1986... Michael deserves the same, if not more. Here are some of the best restorations i have seen from 80's concert footage. First is of course 'Man In The Mirror' from Moonwalker. Beautiful.
[video=youtube;loEfNKv2zYo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loEfNKv2zYo[/video]

Second would be Queen's 1981 performance in Montreal.
[video=youtube;_gAhvNCGK0s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAhvNCGK0s[/video]

And lastly, Queen's 1986 performance in Hungary during the 'Magic' Tour.. just a few examples of how detailed something can look when preserved/restored correctly.
[video=youtube;CnWgjtNWKXI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnWgjtNWKXI[/video]

 

[Galactus123]

I hope they make Dangerous documentary at least. I doubt the album gets Bad 25 kind of release but a documentary would be great.

 

[HIStory]

I'm 99% sure it won't happen. Bad is way popular album among general public than Dangerous and Bad 25 was struggling with sales. Although fan favourite Dangerous is not getting much appreciation by the critics either. They first panned the album when it was released. So I don't see this happening. What we need is a collectors label for this to happen in the future.

I don't get this argument in a world where it is apparently worth for record companies to do anniversary releases on albums like Pipes of Peace by Paul McCartney which sold about 1 million copies upon first release in the 80s, so it cannot really be considered a legendary album. And there are lots of albums like that which get an anniversary release. So how would Dangerous be not worth it? Yes, it probably would not be a huge hit but if done well and cost-effectively it could be made worth for both fans and the record company. I am sure it could if - like I said - albums like Pipes of Peace are considered worthy of an anniversary re-release.

 

[HIStoric]

I don't get this argument in a world where it is apparently worth for record companies to do anniversary releases on albums like Pipes of Peace by Paul McCartney which sold about 1 million copies upon first release in the 80s, so it cannot really be considered a legendary album. And there are lots of albums like that which get an anniversary release. So how would Dangerous be not worth it? Yes, it probably would not be a huge hit but if done well and cost-effectively it could be made worth for both fans and the record company. I am sure it could if - like I said - albums like Pipes of Peace are considered worthy of an anniversary re-release.

Exactly! On top of that, it's not even the anniversary of Tug of War/Pipes of Peace, it's not a special occasion, it's literally just general reissues as part of Macca's Archive Collection series. The great thing is they are done REALLY well as well, they're on the level Michael SHOULD be getting. I hope they do give Dangerous an anniversary album, it deserves one and it should be at the sort of quality we are seeing from Paul McCartney's Archive Collection. Just look at how much incredible work they've put into these two reissues:
[video=youtube;fRQHWEhvQiU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRQHWEhvQiU[/video]
[video=youtube;e5A2qlWORNM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5A2qlWORNM[/video]

I don't feel I'm asking for too much. Michael's literally the highest grossing dead celebrity of the past half-decade (he wasn't for one year I think, but when you add it all up he still would be #1...), I recognise they are a business but they can afford to put some extra effort and money into a project which might not make as much as say, Xscape will. If Paul McCartney and his label can, why can't the MJ Estate and Sony?

A possibly major anniversary edition of his third biggest album ever should not be allocated to a 'collectors label'. When it comes to the potential of commercial success, I can't imagine some of the other options OnirMJ gave (Thriller 3D and the HIStory Tour release most notably) making a huge deal of money either.

Dangerous' reception has also improved with the critics as well. On Wikipedia, the sources it shows the average rating being 4/5 stars (sure, it's a small sample but they are all major outlets). They have a great amount of unreleased content from that era too, not just songs but studio chatter, BTS footage, rehearsal tapes, concerts, it's a gold mine of excellent content.

 

[OnirMJ]

I don't get this argument in a world where it is apparently worth for record companies to do anniversary releases on albums like Pipes of Peace by Paul McCartney which sold about 1 million copies upon first release in the 80s, so it cannot really be considered a legendary album. And there are lots of albums like that which get an anniversary release. So how would Dangerous be not worth it? Yes, it probably would not be a huge hit but if done well and cost-effectively it could be made worth for both fans and the record company. I am sure it could if - like I said - albums like Pipes of Peace are considered worthy of an anniversary re-release.

Well, as you know Paul McCartney or any other artist is not MJ. If his album flops they'll just say "it's an anniversary album" or "it's a re-release". If MJ album flops it will be all over the news and internet "new MJ album flops on the charts". All critics will pan the album all over again and make comments like "why did they re-release this album in the first place when it's not even that good?" & "this shows that MJ's career ended after Thriller". That is just how it works with MJ. You can't have low key release of any MJ album. And I understand that Sony Music wouldn't wanna do that and again lose the money like they did with Bad 25.
I agree that Dangerous needs to have a re-release or an anniversary edition. I also agree that it is a fan favourite album (it is my favourite!) and that it needs more recognition in the media and general public, but I just don't see it happening in this contract with Sony Music that expires in 2017. That's why I said that we need a collectors label for such low key releases.

 

[HIStoric]

Well, as you know Paul McCartney or any other artist is not MJ. If his album flops they'll just say "it's an anniversary album" or "it's a re-release". If MJ album flops it will be all over the news and internet "new MJ album flops on the charts". All critics will pan the album all over again and make comments like "why did they re-release this album in the first place when it's not even that good?" & "this shows that MJ's career ended after Thriller". That is just how it works with MJ. You can't have low key release of any MJ album. And I understand that Sony Music wouldn't wanna do that and again lose the money like they did with Bad 25.
I agree that Dangerous needs to have a re-release or an anniversary edition. I also agree that it is a fan favourite album (it is my favourite!) and that it needs more recognition in the media and general public, but I just don't see it happening in this contract with Sony Music that expires in 2017. That's why I said that we need a collectors label for such low key releases.

Well unfortunately MJ having a low-key album is going to have to happen at some point and thats something we're all going to have to accept.

I think you're grossly over exaggerating the consequences of the album not doing as well. It's not going to be 'all over the news and internet' unless the Estate/Sony do a huge promotional campaign and it barely cracks the Top 100 or something. If they do a good amount of marketing so that people know of the release, there are enough MJ fans to push the album up into good, decent positions for most markets for at least the first week or two. Is that not how it was for Bad 25?

I might be wrong, but I don't recall it doing that amazing in a number of charts following the first week or two of it's release and I also don't recall anyone going "SEE! It showed MJs career ended after Thriller!!". That's not even an acceptable comment for someone to make because the actual Dangerous album itself did extremely well, outselling Bad at the time. Therefore anyone who says that is a stupid bandwagoner and shouldn't be listened to anyway; it's not something you can claim from a reissue 25 years on (Want to clarify I'm criticising anyone who would make that comment, not you Onir!).

Bad 25 wasn't anywhere near the success of Bad but AFAIK everyone did write it off as "oh it's an anniversary album". And where does it say that Sony lost money with Bad 25? I'm glad we agree that it does deserve a reissue (it's my favourite too!), I just think it'd be sad if an anniversary release for an this significant had to be pushed to some collector's label. I don't know for certain whether it will happen next year, but I like to hope it will.

 

[HIStory]

Well, as you know Paul McCartney or any other artist is not MJ. If his album flops they'll just say "it's an anniversary album" or "it's a re-release". If MJ album flops it will be all over the news and internet "new MJ album flops on the charts". All critics will pan the album all over again and make comments like "why did they re-release this album in the first place when it's not even that good?" & "this shows that MJ's career ended after Thriller". That is just how it works with MJ. You can't have low key release of any MJ album. And I understand that Sony Music wouldn't wanna do that and again lose the money like they did with Bad 25.
I agree that Dangerous needs to have a re-release or an anniversary edition. I also agree that it is a fan favourite album (it is my favourite!) and that it needs more recognition in the media and general public, but I just don't see it happening in this contract with Sony Music that expires in 2017. That's why I said that we need a collectors label for such low key releases.

So what do we want? That the Estate keeps releasing 80s stuff only, because that is the only thing the media ackowledges? Thriller for the millionth time? I think it is time that we stop worrying what others - who are not even the target group of such releases - are saying.

Also it should not be all about chart success. Sometimes I feel we are too obsessed with that. If Sony hoped that Bad 25 would be this big blockbuster release and they ended up disappointed then it is their fault because anniversary releases are rarely blockbuster success. They mainly cater for the hard core fan base of an artist. That doesn't mean they are not worth releasing as the Paul MCCartney and other releases clearly show. But if Paul and other artist's labels can do very nicely packaged, nicely done, quality anniversary releases with relatively obscure albums then why can't lot more famous MJ albums get the same treatment? Don't tell me it is not cost-effective when apparently it is for albums like Pipes of Peace. It is up to Sony to do it in a cost effective, yet nice way. You can find that fine balance if you are good at marketing.

Even Motown did a very good job with Come and Get It: The Rare Pearls and it is really for a niche audience: people who are interested in unreleased J5 material.

Maybe Bad 25 just wasn't properly done, packaged, targeted and marketed. Because Bad, the original album, keeps charting as we speak. When did Pipes of Peace last chart? So it is not necessarily the fault of the original material if such projects fail to make an impact. Maybe Sony and the Estate just did not do it right. I think Michael's legacy needs to be treated with bigger respect and not considered as a cash cow only, but also as an art. When they make Pitpull remixes the selling point of an album anniversary I am not quite sure who is the targeted audience. Us fans or the general public? Probably they tried to get both (the demos for fans) but they ended up disappointing fans (the VHS quality DVD, the remixes, the fact you could not buy the concert CD seperately etc) and they failed to make an impact in the general audience. I think it makes sense to target the general audience with something like Xscape but with something like Bad 25 the focus should be pleasing the fans and give Michael's legacy the serious, quality treatment.

A possibly major anniversary edition of his third biggest album ever should not be allocated to a 'collectors label'. When it comes to the potential of commercial success, I can't imagine some of the other options OnirMJ gave (Thriller 3D and the HIStory Tour release most notably) making a huge deal of money either.

I agree. I can't see how those projects - and especially something like HIStory Tour release would make a bigger impact with the general public and critics. Especially the latter would probably tear such a project apart because of the extensive lip-synching.

 

[Annita]

BTW I have not seen any press who wrote Bad 25 was a flop. On the contrary, the Bad 25 release was accompanied by many good-articles appreciating the album and Michaels work. The Spike Lee documentary about Bad is still on repeat on TV. At the end of the day all this may have had an impact that Bad ist still regulary charting today. It indicates that general pubilc considers it as a great album, it doesn`t stop with Thriller.

So this may happen in time with Dangerous and Co hopefully as well.

 

[OnirMJ]

I would LOVE it to happen. It's my favourite album. My favourite Tour. And my favourite song (Who Is It) comes from that album. But I just don't see it happening. I just hope some of you won't be too disappointed if it doesn't happen. My suggestion is that you all keep your expectations low and if it really happens than we can all celebrate and be happy and positively surprised and not other way around disappointed and angry at record label or Michael's Estate. They didn't mentioned it once. On the other hand you have various reports, articles or just speculations about HIStory Tour, Thriller 3D, Off The Wall documentary and new album of unreleased music.

 

[OnirMJ]

BTW I have not seen any press who wrote Bad 25 was a flop.

It was a big flop. Billboard wrote about it not selling well. And even someone working for Sony Music asked the fans for their thoughts about the project and their opinions about what they thought was done wrong. He said that the album wasn't selling as they thought it would. Menaing the album underperformed.

 

[HIStoric]

It was a big flop. Billboard wrote about it not selling well. And even someone working for Sony Music asked the fans for their thoughts about the project and their opinions about what they thought was done wrong. He said that the album wasn't selling as they thought it would. Menaing the album underperformed.

Good. That shows they're willing to learn from their mistakes and potentially retackle a similar project from a different angle.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

What I can say about this is that financial success should not be the sole determining factor when it comes to posthumus albums in general. If you want to perpetuate an artists legacy for years to come these type of releases are vital.

Now to be fair about Bad25 and the remixes sony only did what MJ did with Thriller 25 (Although to a lesser extent). Yes, they were a lot of missed opportunities, (what was up with the pepsi cans?) and the whole DVD/Live CD debacle, (Can someone tell me why the Live CD got removed from Spotify? I don't get it.)

I don't know what estimations The Estate and Sony had for Bad 25 but if they were thinking Bad numbers or even half of Invincible's numbers someone needs to give them a wedgie. A posthumus re-release of an album that was released 25 years ago ain't gonna do that kind of numbers. And in this day and age when retail albums viability is at an absolute low it would be crazy to even entertain that thought. Now that we got that of the equation you can focus on quality and content and promotion. People will support and stand by a good, well thought out product.

On the flip side the 2nd CD of Unreleased demo was great, the documentary by Spike Lee was good (and that's me being extremely courteous). Hopefully they saw the dissatisfaction we had with some aspects of the release and will improve it till next time, and hopefully that will be with Dangerous.

Oh and also since when did we start caring about what critics thinks about MJ records?

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Unfortunately profits are a big part of this whether we like it or not. The Estate/Sony won't spend money if they're not expecting anything back. If this happens I'm not expecting anything big. Although I'd absolutely love to be wrong. Obviously, haha.

 

[Zakk]

You'd think after making so much on the 'THIS IS IT' film, they'd do something equally significant that all fans can enjoy rather than trying too hard and delivering sub-par products (minus BAD 25 disc 2 & 'Xscape' track 8 onwards...)

 

[OnirMJ]

I don't know what estimations The Estate and Sony had for Bad 25 but if they were thinking Bad numbers or even half of Invincible's numbers someone needs to give them a wedgie. A posthumus re-release of an album that was released 25 years ago ain't gonna do that kind of numbers. And in this day and age when retail albums viability is at an absolute low it would be crazy to even entertain that thought.

What? Bad was released in 1987 and sold more than 32 MIL copies, Invincible was released in 2001 and sold more than 7 MIL copies. Of course they didn't think of those numbers. They ain't stupid! Why would you think so?

They were probably aiming at Thriller 25 sales (around 3 MIL). Because they are both similar types of albums. Anniversary re-releases with remixes and few new songs/demos. Yes, Thriller 25 was released while MJ was alive and Thriller is much more famous album than Bad, but Bad 25 had much more content. So I think their expectations were little less than what Thriller 25 had sold worldwide. They put out 6 brand new previously unreleased Michael Jackson songs & unreleased concert. That is almost the number they released on MICHAEL and Xscape. I think they had every right to aim at much bigger number than what it actually sold. They ****ed up with VHS, that's the main reason why it flopped so hard. All other content was great. Even the remixes by Nero and Afrojack were decent. Pitbull was a total miss though. I hope they learned a lesson with that one.

 

[barbee0715]

How many Bad25 sets did they end up selling? I answered the survey and I just wanted more a la carte options.
I was thrilled to buy the DVD separately but I already own the original album, 2 original cassette versions and the SE CD. (Only because my brother bought me a nice CD player).

I just wanted the live album and the demos but I can't just rebuy things I already have.

 

[KOPV]

At this point it’s way too much pressure on ourselves tohave heavy expectations from MJ posthumusalbums. It would have been a mountain toovercome (which he could have) for Michael to release an album and smash it outof the park on an MJ expected level with complete relevancy if he washere.. So to have that same expectationon albums being released from ‘vault’ music that majority Michael probablywould have never released - recorded decades ago is way too much for fans to put on themselves.
In all honesty(though I don’t want to let go of the idea of MJ albums being best sellers) we have to start excepting albums as music to enjoy instead of a monster hit making machine.. It will be many unfinished old tracks.. “Dated” music is not only in the instrumental. Melodic style that peaks interest changes (even though a great melody can live forever),Topics, themes.. The list goes on!
If Michael weremaking music now I heavily believe that those songs would be hits. But if Michael (and team) did not believe inthose songs enough to release them then, we have to trust that it was for areason. The main reason would be becausethey felt it would not be as great of hits as the ones released.. If they were ‘upto par’ in Michaels eyes, we probably would have heard them..

In acceptation ofmusic he was working on before he past.


We may love them,but we can’t expect huge commercial success because WE see the quality of themusic.. Plus posthumous albums don’t getthe promotion needed to be big hits.. Notour, no new music videos to support, no public appearances… and as far as “negativereviews”… There were negative reviews about every single MJ album, that doesn’tmean jack sh**! Lol.. They have tofind SOMETHING to write about right? Andbeing another person saying “this album was great..” is just exactly thatANOTHER article.. They want people toread what they say and it’s easier when it’s negative..

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

What? Bad was released in 1987 and sold more than 32 MIL copies, Invincible was released in 2001 and sold more than 7 MIL copies. Of course they didn't think of those numbers. They ain't stupid! Why would you think so?

I said that as a figure of speech for high numbers. I could easily see them thinking that It could do outrageous numbers because of the viability of the MJ brand and because Bad is a universally loved album.

They ain't that stupid huh? An album with 3 fake songs, A poor excuse for a DVD with "remastered" short films, Wembley DVD with the quality of a video from a Nokia phone from the 90's.. I wouldn't put anything past them.

 

[KOPV]

I remember Bad 25 sales were over 200K in the first 3 weeks... Which for a release album with bonus features isn't bad.. I don't think they really like saying total sale #'s because 1. it's not something to brag about in this case.. 2. they always try to have the release /bonus material count towards sales for the original release.. Sometimes (like with Thriller 25) doent work.

 

[SoCav]

Although I'm glad many other artists I like do get quality boxset and/or posthumous releases, it is disheartening when I compare those projects to those put out under Michael's name. How did it ever get to the point where I am still salivating over upcoming releases for other artists, including those who have passed away years ago, whereas with Michael - my all time favourite artist - I no longer get excited because I have learned to expect low-quality releases?

I hope one day Michael's work, including the spectacular material he produced during the Dangerous era, will get treated with the utmost care and respect it deserves.

 

[KOPV]

^ I agree with you, I do think though that we have to give it more time.. Sometimes the best box sets etc. comes several years after the artists passing.. I do believe we have some cool stuff to come! they are just trying hard to keep the 'demand' strong... It' tricky figuring he perfect equation: demand + need + keeping relevant + spreading out within time...

there's just so much business wise we have to TRY to be understanding to.. I do believe though It's Coming!!

 

[OnirMJ]

They ain't that stupid huh? An album with 3 fake songs, A poor excuse for a DVD with "remastered" short films, Wembley DVD with the quality of a video from a Nokia phone from the 90's.. I wouldn't put anything past them.

Incapable, yes. Stupid, no.

 

[KOPV]

a company making mistakes does not make them stupid.. (well not always lol) there would not be millions of dollars behind there decisions if they were completely stupid..

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Incapable, yes. Stupid, no.

a company making mistakes does not make them stupid.. (well not always lol) there would not be millions of dollars behind there decisions if they were completely stupid..

Including three fake songs in the first posthumous MJ album was a pretty stupid move. There is no defending that. But fair enough I understand your point. Lack of common sense at times does not make a person stupid. Lol if that was the case everyone on the planet would be labeled stupid

 

[h0opman31]

So at this point, everything concerning D25 are just speculations ?

 

[OnirMJ]

So at this point, everything concerning D25 are just speculations ?

Yeah, just fan speculations. But what was speculated in the media for the next projects were Thriller 3D (various media reports, John Landis...), HIStory Tour 3D (John Branca), Off The Wall Documentary (Spike Lee's independent project but maybe Sony Music & Estate decide to back it up with a re-release) & new album of unreleased music (L.A. Reid, Rodney Jerkins...). And not a single word about D25.

 

[mjj19582009]

Got a translation from MJ Beats page on D25:
Rumor: Dangerous 25th |

First, we want to inform the members that this is an internal study of the spoils of Michael Jackson what we're gonna announce. Having said that, let's go to the information:

According to the internal speculation, the album ' dangerous " will have your commemorative edition of 25 years, the content of audio is still uncertain, but the video content that is being studied is the last show of the Dangerous World Tour Cidade do México .

By all accounts, Michael requested for the last show was recorded in tablets. It would be your "fired" since he has cancelled the tour due to the charges at the time.

The last show, in particular, has peculiar things as well as the fact that Michael have been crying while he was still with the glasses on. 'Jam' and have been one of the few that ended with "man in the mirror" (for obvious reasons).

As we said, this is the study of launch, there's no confirmation, so the project can change the course of their development.

 

[Galactus123]

I hope they release a concert but I don't think Mexico City is a good choice. Maybe if the show is good but Michael didn't look happy at all in those concerts for obvious reasons. Any concert with Bad and The Way You Make Me Feel would be awesome.

 

[Zakk]

^^ i'd take a Blu-Ray any day, Mexico is fantastic. Better than Buenos Aires. They can include 'BAD' & 'TWYMMF' etc. as bonus features.

 

[Galactus123]

Of course I would happily take it if it was in HD but we don't have any reason to believe that Mexico City would be Blu-Ray. I think they should release a concert where Michael looks happy:

[video=youtube;5bRnD0CFZ8Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bRnD0CFZ8Y[/video]