Death Investigation Chats

Re: Death Investigation Chat - 3rd Session

Thanks for posting! :)

Who will answer the questions?

Thank you Ashtanga. We have put together a team, who are members from various sites with enough knowledge to answer the questions. It's a two-parter because the subject is SONY.
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat - 3rd Session

it's just all so very vague, my thoughts of sony connected with all this mess. i dont like taking wild guesses.

i need more info on thome, how he is connected with a certain individual from sony or a group. and if sony knew what thome had in mind. what they both know of each other.
 
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Re: Death Investigation Chat - 3rd Session

In 2003-2004, there was chat online - I don't remember where I read it - but someone told me about old music boards that had info on sony. I did go to read them. Does anyone know about it? Also, RF articles from 2001-2002 & possibly earlier, could be very informative if we could get them.
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat - 3rd Session

Thank you jrsfan and Kasume. I am copying these questions for the person organizing this chat--they are very good questions btw!!!

Thanks again!!
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat - 3rd Session

There is this money timeline from MJfiles:
(Note - good to add to this)
http://www.mjfiles.com/more/business/timeline-michaels-money/
A Timeline Of Michael’s Money


By PollyPublished: February 28, 2010Posted in: BusinessTags: ATV Catalog, money, Sony
michael-jackson-grammys-300x219.jpg

From the time he made his fortune in the 80’s, Michael’s finances have been the source of many rumors and much speculation. He purchased the most lucrative music catalog in the world, weathered damaging allegations against his character, openly criticised his record company, shouldered countless loans and law suits, and was heavily criticised himself for his lavish spending. In order to gain a better understanding of Michael’s life, we have compiled a timeline detailing his changing fortunes.
1975:
The Jackson 5 leave Motown and join CBS Records, which offers them much better contracts, plus guaranteed fees of at least $350,000 per album. Michael also gains some income from concerts, but this is still income that he shares with his brothers and which is managed by his father.
1982:
In a move towards creative and financial independence, Michael breaks away from his father and the Jackson 5 and collaborates with Quincy Jones on 3 albums. The first one is “Thriller”, which eventually racks up sales of 51 million copies globally, making it the best-selling album in history. Michael’s pre-expense profit of sales of the album surpasses $125 million. Those close to him in the “Thriller” era, credit Michael with financial acumen and astute business judgment.
1985:
Michael purchases ATV Music, which owns the copyright to songs written by the Beatles’ John Lennon and Paul McCartney, for $47.5 million. Michael is at the peak of his fame, and still lives in “Hayvenhurst”, the Jackson family home in Encino. Owning the ATV music catalog earns Michael a steady stream of royalties every time one of the songs is either played on the radio or performed.
1987:
Michael nets around $35 million from a year-long “Bad” tour. Heading into the 1990’s, Michael is believed to be in sound shape financially.
1988:
Michael makes his $17 million purchase of a property near Santa Ynez, California. This property soon becomes “Neverland”.
1991:
Michael signs a $65m recording deal with Sony. He releases “Dangerous” and retreats from working regularly.
1993:
Michael settles a child-molestation lawsuit for an undisclosed amount, said to be in the region of $20 million.
1995:
Michael is forced to sell Sony a 50 percent stake in the ATV catalog for more than $100 million, in order to help shore up his now-wobbling accounts. He releases HIStory; shoots a “teaser” video in Hungary for millions of dollars. Dan Beck, a senior marketing executive who worked on the video, says of Michael at this time, “He dreamed the big dream. It was P. T. Barnum.”
1996:
Michael meets Myung Ho Lee, a Korean adviser.
1997:
Michael embarks on a 35-minute film called “Ghosts” that he co-wrote with Stephen King and shot with Stan Winston, a special-effects whiz. The film cost that cost well above $15 million. At this time, Michael is believed to have paid a substantial portion of as much as $65 million on video projects.
1998:
Michael has already taken out and depleted a $90 million bank loan and Lee arranges a new, $140 million loan from the Bank of America that was collateralized by the ATV catalog and used to pay off earlier debts. Just several months later, the $140 million evaporates and Michael obtains another $30 million line of credit from the Bank of America.
1999:
According to Alvin Malnik, one of Michael’s advisers, Michael spends about $8 million annually on plane charters, antiques, paintings, hotel rooms, travel and other personal expenses, and that the annual upkeep for Neverland and its staff is about $4 million. Michael’s annual budget at this time includes about $7.5 million for personal expenses and $5 million to maintain Neverland. Malnik said that he had loaned Michael $7 million, part of which was used to settle various lawsuits related to deals gone wrong.
2000:
It’s speculated that that by this time, Michael’s biggest costs may have shifted away from his shopping sprees to simply having to deal with the enormous monthly interest payments on his debt.
Lee says that at this time, he raised the original $140 million bank loan to $200 million, using part of that loan to pay down the $30 million credit line, which had been entirely tapped.
2001:
Michael had used his half of ATV to secure a $200m loan from Bank of America. He releases ‘Invincible’ which is not a commercial success.
2003:
Fortress Investment Group, a New York-based investment group that specialises in distressed debt, buys Michael’s loans from the Bank of America after he misses some payments. It then begins levying high interest rates.
2005:
Michael is making monthly payments of about $4.5 million on $270 million in debt. This works out to an annual interest rate of about 20 percent. Michael faces the second child molestation allegations, for which he goes to trial and is acquitted. During the trial, one accountant testifies that Michael had an “ongoing cash crisis” and was spending $20m to $30m a year more than he earned.
December 20 – Fortress threatens to call its loan because of the allegations levelled against Michael. If Michael becomes insolvent, his 50 percent share of the $1 billion business that is ATV, would be up for grabs to the highest bidder. Sony executive Robert S. Wiesenthal proposes that Sony will help Michael find a bank to lend him more than $300 million to pay off his debts. In exchange, Michael will possibly forfeit a portion of his half of the ATV catalog. Sony arranges an extension with Fortress and brings in Citigroup and other potential lenders to arrange new financing at a lower rate.
2006:
Michael is forced to refinance the $200m loan from Bank of America to stave off bankruptcy.
February – At a meeting in London, Citigroup offers Michael a new loan with a 6 percent rate. Citigroup strikes the deal because Michael agrees to give Sony the right to buy half of his 50 percent stake in the ATV catalog at a future date for about $250 million, providing a backstop for Citigroup if Michael defaults.
Fortress then offers Michael the same terms — a testament to how desirable the ATV catalog has been and continues to be to the various financiers and advisers who have worked with Michael since he purchased it twenty years ago.
April – Still swamped in debt, with his musical career on hold and his personal life marred by scandal, Michael agrees to a financial overhaul. It is likely to strip him of about half of his remaining stake in the ATV catalog, which he has relied on as a financial lifeline for about a decade. According to executives involved in the restructuring talks, Michael used the catalog, as well as copyrights to his own songs, as collateral for roughly $270 million in bank loans he took out to fund expenses such as maintenance of Neverland.
By April, a final deal is in place. Citigroup ends up providing a $25 million mortgage on Neverland, most of which Michael used to buy back a 5 percent stake in the ATV catalog held by one of his early advisers, John Branca. By this time, Michael is working less and less.
May – Given the apparent precariousness of Michael’s financial situation , it is unclear how long he will be able to retain his remaining stake in the ATV catalog. June – Marc Schaffel, who formerly served as an adviser on Michael’s television projects, alleges in a lawsuit scheduled for trial in July that Michael failed to reimburse him for outlays of more than $2.2 million, much of it in cash.The Neverland’s value is assessed at $17,042,560. The land value is $6,898,858. Overall, the ranch has an improvement value of $11,034,702.
Hayvenhurst, the Jackson family home in Encino which Michael owns, carries a $4 million mortgage. It has an assessed value of $2.66 million and an improvement value of $2.3 million.
The state of California threatens to shut down both homes to employees when it emerges that Michael has fallen behind in insurance payments and salaries.
2007:
October– Michael defaults on a $23 million loan with Fortress Music Trust, doing business as DBCG LLC, a Delaware corporation. The holder puts him on notice. Michael is given has 90 days to pay the full amount — $23 million plus $212,963.83 in interest — or he will lose Neverland. The $20 million loan was secured against the deed of trust for Neverland and is separate from the $300 million loan secured by Jackson’s stake in Sony/ATV Music Publishing. The papers filed are titled “Notice of Default and Election to Sell.”
Michael is also being sued in London for $7 million by his former patron, Prince Abdullah of Bahrain.
Michael admits in a sworn testimony to impairment due to prescription drug abuse. He is now living in Washington DC. Neverland stands vacant.
2008:
March – Michael faces foreclosure on Neverland. A real estate investment firm comes to his aid, setting up a joint venture with him to take ownership of the ranch.
April – Michael stops a public auction of his belongings including jewel-encrusted concert tickets, stage-wear and music memorabilia.
2009:
Michael is said to still be making an annual income of $19m. He has not released any new material since the album Invincible in 2001, which had not been a success, and has not performed live for over a decade. Michael announces a series of comeback shows called “This is It”, which are said to solve his financial crisis for good. It is estimated that he could make up to $500m if he takes the show around the world.
June – Earlier this month, the organisers of a proposed Jackson 5 reunion concert file a $40m claim against Michael. The New Jersey-based promoter AllGood Entertainment claims breach of contract and fraud, demanding $20m in compensatory damages and another $20m in punitive damages, claiming that Michael had promised not to perform solo ahead of a show scheduled for next year.
June 25 – Michael dies while preparing for a 50-night schedule of shows at London’s 02 Arena that were scheduled to begin in July. The concerts would have been Michael’s first since 2001. At the time of his death, he is said to have been facing continual rumours that he might file for bankruptcy.
Michael is believed to have died owing anything up to $500m.
it is believed that Sony Music Group, his most influential business partner and record label, will likely end up owning Michael’s share of Sony/ATV Music Publishing. Sony/ATV owns 750,000 era-spanning hits and classics; its most prized asset is the song rights to most of the works of the Beatles, which Michael purchased on his own in 1985 for $47.5 million. In the 1990s, Sony/ATV might have been worth as much as $1.5 billion. It is believed that Michael’s share of the joint venture, in which both he and Sony once had equal stakes, may now be less than 25 percent.
In addition, the lucrative publishing catalog of Michael’s hits called “MiJac”, is also believed to be weighed down by massive loans. MiJac is administered by Warner Chappell, a division of Warner Music Group.
Sources:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/business/yourmoney/14michael.html?pagewanted=5
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/p...208.php/Michael_Jacksons_running_out_of_money
http://www.newsweek.com/id/204011
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/26/michael-jackson-finances-lost-fortune




What I would like to know is in this article it says:
link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2005/jun/15/michaeljacksontrial.popandrock


Hence the Waldorf Towers meeting, and its highly confidential outcome. A loan would be made to Jackson from Bank of America for $140m. It was to be secured against the star's most cherished asset - his half-ownership of the Sony/ATV music catalogue, a massive earner that includes control over 251 Beatles songs such as Yesterday and Hey Jude. The loan was the equivalent of at least seven years' income for Jackson at the time. And yet, by the middle of the following year, his former business manager Myung Ho Lee would later claim, it had been depleted. It was increased to $200m. Jackson was clearly in trouble - and yet not in nearly so much trouble as he finds himself now, even though, two days ago, he was cleared of all child abuse charges in a California courtroom.


In one year, MJ needed to borrow 60 million? Not sure what year that was exactly.....


I think we need to explore who was responsible for MJ being blackballed - Bain talked about it in her Sister2sister article. People would not work with MJ in 2006-7. This directly affected his finances. Was this because of Trudy Green & Howard Kaufman? - Something was going on. Can't be because of unpopularity - he sold out 50 shows & according to Dileo, he could have sold out 85.
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat - 3rd Session

Thanks for the information jrsfan--I will pass it on to the Investigation Team. Will you be joining us on Saturday?
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat - 3rd Session

Thanks for the information jrsfan--I will pass it on to the Investigation Team. Will you be joining us on Saturday?


I can't make Saturday as I will be leaving town. Will you be publishing your ? & answers?
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat - 3rd Session

I can't make Saturday as I will be leaving town. Will you be publishing your ? & answers?

Sorry about that--we will miss you---not sure if we will be publishing but there will be another chat--a continuation of SONY on the 19th--hope you can come then!!!
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat - 3rd Session

Sorry you couldn't make it Jrsfan and Limonali.
These chats are very informative and we get a lot of good feedback.
Hope to see you in the next one!
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat - 3rd Session

Sorry about that--we will miss you---not sure if we will be publishing but there will be another chat--a continuation of SONY on the 19th--hope you can come then!!!

I hope I can. You guys must have had alot to chat about. Sony is a big subject.
 
Re: Investigation Chat session

Just to let everyone know, there will be the 2nd chat focused on SONY this Saturday, June 19th---it is the same place and time. If you are interested, just pm me and I will let the organizer know. The link and passwords will be pmd to participants 10 minutes before the chat begins.

Thanks everyone!!!
 
Re: Investigation Chat session

Just to let everyone know, there will be the 3rd chat focused on SONY next Saturday, July 17th---it is the same place and time. We were unable to finish all of the SONY information--so we will continue where we left off--and then proceed to questions. If you are interested, just pm me and I will let the organizer know. The link and passwords will be pmd to participants 10 minutes before the chat begins.

Thanks everyone!!!
 
Death Investigation chat with special guest William Wagener on Aug 14th at 5pm CET.

Hello fellow MJ fans!

It's been more than a year now since Michael passed, without there being any real progess made regarding the investigation. Still, no one is in jail for this murder.
Many fans are left with questions , that I assume, will only increase after the next hearing on Aug 23th..
Therefore some of us have decided to host a death investigation chat*, where fans can come and post their questions and receive an open, honest and factual (where possible) answer.

This session will focus on the '05 trial and how much of what was going on then still comes into play. At the end when the Q&A session starts there will be a special guest answering questions this time. Someone who was at the trial and has first hand information.

Space is unlimited, we will be accepting questions upfront and they will be screened, censored and approved. If there should be time left ( probably not as there are only so many questions he can answer in an hour, but in case there is) additional questions will be accepted there near the end of the session.

Special guest Mr William Wagener will be joining us from 7pm - 8pm CET. On Sat Aug 14th.

For those who do not know who Mr. Wagener is, please check out some of his video's on YOUTUBE here's a link to some.

His YT channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/williamwagener

His TV show:
http://www.onsecondthought.tv/

William Wagener slams Tom Sneddon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x390rVfx3Qg

Mr.Wagener's special message to MJ fans:
http://malagaaunike.wordpress.com/20...ge-to-mj-fans/


If you wish to join the session, all you have to do is PM me with your request. As soon as we have all the details I will send you a PM with all the information you need.

The Death Investigation Chat will take place on Saturday Aug 14th at 5pm CET. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

*Note: this will not be a normal chat where you can post what and whenever you want. The point is that the questions and answers are posted at a speed everyone can read. We don't want answers and questions getting lost. We hope you will take this into consideration and we thank you for your understanding. How it will exactly work, will be explained shortly before the chat starts.

Thank you all for reading this and I hope to see you there!!
 
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Re: Death Investigation Chat with WILLIAM WAGENER

For those who do not know who Mr. Wagener is, please check out some of his video's on YOUTUBE here's a link to one that will lead to others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1Vv-GTM ... ure=digest
Do you have another link? Is giving error >>> Is giving me error: The URL had an ID video of format incorrect.

:unsure:
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat with WILLIAM WAGENER

thanx !
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat with WILLIAM WAGENER

Where does this take place, can you post alink to the website?
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat with WILLIAM WAGENER

Where does this take place, can you post alink to the website?


It will be at: http://meeting.mjjc.org/

You will need to register--make sure you have an update of JAVA. Anyone wishing to attend, just pm me and I will update as time gets closer with further instructions. PM any questions you may have also--and on the day of the chat, I will pm the password to you.

Thanks
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat with WILLIAM WAGENER

THE CHAT HAS BEEN MOVED UP AN HOUR. HERE IS AN UPDATED NOTICE:

Death Investigation chat with special guest William Wagener on Aug 14th at 4pm CET.

Hello fellow MJ fans!

It's been more than a year now since Michael passed, without there being any real progess made regarding the investigation. Still, no one is in jail for this murder.
Many fans are left with questions , that I assume, will only increase after the next hearing on Aug 23th..
Therefore some of us have decided to host a death investigation chat*, where fans can come and post their questions and receive an open, honest and factual (where possible) answer.

This session will focus on the '05 trial and how much of what was going on then still comes into play. At the end when the Q&A session starts there will be a special guest answering questions this time. Someone who was at the trial and has first hand information.

Space is unlimited, we will be accepting questions upfront and they will be screened, censored and approved. If there should be time left ( probably not as there are only so many questions he can answer in an hour, but in case there is) additional questions will be accepted there near the end of the session.

Special guest Mr William Wagener will be joining us from 6pm - 7pm CET. On Sat Aug 14th.

For those who do not know who Mr. Wagener is, please check out some of his video's on YOUTUBE here's a link to one that will lead to others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0pt_tnxPM

If you wish to join the session, all you have to do is PM me with your request. As soon as we have all the details I will send you a PM with all the information you need.

The Death Investigation Chat will take place on Saturday Aug 14th at 4pm CET. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

*Note: this will not be a normal chat where you can post what and whenever you want. The point is that the questions and answers are posted at a speed everyone can read. We don't want answers and questions getting lost. We hope you will take this into consideration and we thank you for your understanding. How it will exactly work, will be explained shortly before the chat starts.

Thank you all for reading this and I hope to see you there!!
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat with WILLIAM WAGENER

The Death Investigation Chat will take place on Saturday Aug 14th at 4pm CET. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

*Note: this will not be a normal chat where you can post what and whenever you want. The point is that the questions and answers are posted at a speed everyone can read. We don't want answers and questions getting lost. We hope you will take this into consideration and we thank you for your understanding. How it will exactly work, will be explained shortly before the chat starts.

Thank you all for reading this and I hope to see you there!!
Thanks for the reminder!
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat with WILLIAM WAGENER

LOVE William Wagener, thought he has been rather quiet in the last year. That man's court updates really kept me going through the trial.
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat with WILLIAM WAGENER

Is there a video or transcript of this chat?
 
Death Investigation Chat - AEG

Saturday September 18th. Death investigation chat, topic: AEG. It starts at 8pm CET.


Hello fellow MJ fans!

It's been more than a year now since Michael passed, without there being any real progess made regarding the investigation. Still, no one is in jail for this murder.
Many fans are left with questions , that I assume, has only increased after the last hearing on Aug 23th..
Therefore some of us have decided to host a death investigation chat*, where fans can come and post their questions and receive an open, honest and factual (where possible) answer.

This session will focus on AEG and will be spread out over two chats. The first one is on September 18th. The chat starts at 8pm CET. Estimated to last 2 hours.

In this session we will talk about who owns AEG, how it all started for them and more. To understand them better, you must first have knowledge about them. Knowledge is power.

You think you know all there is to know about AEG? Come and find out.



You can ask your questions upfront, we will hold a Q&A session at the end of the chat.


If you wish to join the session, all you have to do is PM me with your request. As soon as we have all the details I will send you a PM with all the information you need.

The Death Investigation Chat will take place on Saturday September 18th at 8pm CET.

For the correct time at your end please look here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

*Note: this will not be a normal chat where you can post what and whenever you want. The point is that the questions and answers are posted at a speed everyone can read. We don't want answers and questions getting lost. We hope you will take this into consideration and we thank you for your understanding. How it will exactly work, will be explained shortly before the chat starts.

Thank you all for reading this and I hope to see you there!!
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat with WILLIAM WAGENER

dirtydiana27, A new chat is being planned?

Hi Ash---yes I just posted for the newest chat. It will be about AEG---and we are planning some very interesting topics in the future.

Also, just want to let you know, that we are working on trying to get the log of the WW chat available--I will keep everyone updated. WW talked mostly about the trial--he has some great insight.
 
Re: Death Investigation Chat with WILLIAM WAGENER

Hi Ash---yes I just posted for the newest chat. It will be about AEG---and we are planning some very interesting topics in the future.

Also, just want to let you know, that we are working on trying to get the log of the WW chat available--I will keep everyone updated. WW talked mostly about the trial--he has some great insight.
Thanks for warning! :)
 
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