Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

SoS

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Happy New Year to you to Ape and all the DMJFLITDers! :flowers:
 

Ape

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So guess how I spent the first day of the new year? I couldn't sleep because I was skimming through the pages and reading some of the beginnings of this thread. There's really some heartfelt stuff. We had fun. Lots of creativity and all. I really wish that the happy ending really happened. I wish or maybe hope that he's somehow still alive and off living his private life with his family and love mentioned here. As far fetched as that is, it's just such a tragedy otherwise. It's too sad. Anyways, it was nice to see you two in here the same time I was on. :) Or close to it anyways. I miss all the fun we used to have here.
 

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So guess how I spent the first day of the new year? I couldn't sleep because I was skimming through the pages and reading some of the beginnings of this thread. There's really some heartfelt stuff. We had fun. Lots of creativity and all. I really wish that the happy ending really happened. I wish or maybe hope that he's somehow still alive and off living his private life with his family and love mentioned here. As far fetched as that is, it's just such a tragedy otherwise. It's too sad. Anyways, it was nice to see you two in here the same time I was on. :) Or close to it anyways. I miss all the fun we used to have here.
I know wann't it great fun, I guess it was partly because MJ's music feels so true, and love by definition is true and everyone here wrote from their point of truth also. It was a relief and still is, from all the horrible news of continuing law suits aimed at him, all the talks of posthumous tributes of all kinds, reported "s" attempt, supposed "kidnappings" - I mean, this is the only thread that offers the spirit of hope it seems, other than the Jesus Christ thread that is, at least imo, so yeah - you are not alone, . With so many unanswered ?s surrounding the death it kind of does still feel like anything is possible because its all so open and inconclusive, so who knows, perhaps it was part of his great plan to reunite/unite the two. Its a better feeling thought at least, and fortunately this thread based on his music is still here...sort of like taking the blue or the red pill :lol:

and MP I have no idea how I missed your musical interlude! You are thought of very fondly, the DMJFLITD official VJ/DJ! :D

hey mysterygirl7 ;) calling u out from the other thread u were in. Sorry for the late response. Good to see you! :flowers:
 
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8701girl

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Hey y'all I know it's been a long time since I've been on but wanted to say hi and happy New year . Hope you all had a lovely Christmas
 

SoS

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Hey SOS, by the way, I think your inbox is full... mine were and I couldn't recieve messages.
hey mysterygirl7 :) yeah I guess we can meet in here like we're doing until we clear them. This is a little privatish feeling, like our own little world :cheeky:
 

mysterygirl7

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hey mysterygirl7 :) yeah I guess we can meet in here like we're doing until we clear them. This is a little privatish feeling, like our own little world :cheeky:

I cleared so many, and then you couldn't recieve... :bored: hehe
Well true, seems like we are the only ones here :)
 

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BTW: Even though I/We have "continued" to get updates of response (s) on this site via email....I/We STOPPED posting due the disrespect I/We endured..

.With all thee utmost respect....I have been posting on my/our face book page.. Susie Deeds @facebook.com

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hey 8701girl! ;) nice to see you! hey sdeidjis! man its so nice to see you too! yes its been a while. I had been unable to log in for a long time. quite honestly though suz, those few trolls wouldn't stop me from coming but i know what u mean because it could be a bit of a discouragement to some. mysterygirl7 sorry about that, i have not had a chance to really get into my pms. hopefully those who have sent me messages can be very patient or post puiblicly in a very discreet manner ;)

hope our 'town' dj'vj mysterious pheonix got my acknowledgement of that last song. she always seems to find just the right song to say whatever she's trying to say ... how cute :lol:

on way out the door ... hope all are having a wonderful day

re-reading. @ mp & Ape :lol:
 
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SoS

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Can anyone explain to me what this thread is all about?
Hello MattyJam, :Dwhile I'm an 'old timer' here but far from the most dominantly active poster, I will take the liberty to wecome u to this very sensitive thread and say it helps if you know all of MJ's "love"-related music pretty well, and suggest reading at least the first page or two or three in advance to see if you can "feel it" - and see how/if it flows for you, and recall MJ's music as you read and see what/where/if there are any storylines ,combinations of themes that lead you to patterns in songs and where they lead you (like follow the yellow brick road?) and feel free to post those impressions. eg. what you hear in lyrics, or how many categories or types of situations does he sing about, and what patterns u find within those categories, that sort of thing, trying not to call out specific female names and things like that as it too easily leads to gossip and speculation and please note that it was started by a life long fan from the I Want You Back era, who was there at the time the J5 broke their first record so please be respectful of that and know that its not quite as random as it could easily seem :) or if you feel something is actually just a random song of course that's ok too (is that a contradiction?) and keep in mind, its all about l.o.v.e.which is spiritual in nature ;) and welcome to the thread! :D

@ Ape and MP ;) :lol: We know y'all were here lol
 
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SkysTheLimit

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Hello MattyJam, :Dwhile I'm an 'old timer' here but far from the most dominantly active poster, I will take the liberty to wecome u to this very sensitive thread and say it helps if you know all of MJ's "love"-related music pretty well, and suggest reading at least the first page or two or three in advance to see if you can "feel it" - and see how/if it flows for you, and recall MJ's music as you read and see what/where/if there are any storylines ,combinations of themes that lead you to patterns in songs and where they lead you (like follow the yellow brick road?) and feel free to post those impressions. eg. what you hear in lyrics, or how many categories or types of situations does he sing about, and what patterns u find within those categories, that sort of thing, trying not to call out specific female names and things like that as it too easily leads to gossip and speculation and please note that it was started by a life long fan from the I Want You Back era, who was there at the time the J5 broke their first record so please be respectful of that and know that its not quite as random as it could easily seem :) or if you feel something is actually just a random song of course that's ok too (is that a contradiction?) and keep in mind, its all about l.o.v.e.which is spiritual in nature ;) and welcome to the thread! :D

@ Ape and MP ;) :lol: We know y'all were here lol
I've wondered what this thread was all about and i wasn't understanding, thanks so much for clearing it up!
:)
 

SoS

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I've wondered what this thread was all about and i wasn't understanding, thanks so much for clearing it up!
:)
You're most welcome! To that explanation I might add that it's a thread that's more about what you may feel he was trying to accomplish by writing or singing certain songs or sets or types or patterns of songs and/or what he was saying or trying to say over the years in general.

And that its called Did MJ FLITD because the first song that started it off is Someone In The Dark but not sure if that theme is clear in this thread as this thread is actually a continuation of itself the first of which became destroyed or the thread starter took it down? not sure which, during a past blitz the entire board had experienced with hackers, if I recall that correctly? from 2007? or so.

(Girls/Guys of LITD Land feel free to jump in if you can or wish - these are my take-aways from this thread)

We have found reading and writing in this thread about l.o.v.e. has been a respite from the rest of the 'world' where here true l.o.v.e.is amplified..

With all that said, SkysTheLimit (LOVE your username and that great gif) :) welcome to the thread!


(I'm gonna start feeling like a moderator of the thread if someone else doesn't show up soon! I'm actually hardly ever on these days, just a period of extended down time!) :lol:

Would love to see if any one who's been reading over time have any additions knowing its a huge thread to wade through so if you find that you're feelin it, feel free jump in or to just take your time! ;) and enjoy!
 
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Sdeidjs

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"When we start at the beginning...we will see all their beauty in it's infinite glory..! " Sdeidjs (Author)
 

SoS

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@ wendijane Don't know how I missed seeing your post, always great to see you :hug: ! and thanks for that great song (interesting visual!)

@ magicgirl! You are a magicgirl! Amazing how well that poem seems to pretty much fit the thread convos and really points up the theme about he 'waiting' and her never showing up, eg., "waiting for you to find me", and the, "I'll remember being with you" part. :huh: (HOW on earth did you find it?) Amazing and Interesting! Thanks for adding it to the thread! Fascinating.

Suze! :) Love the one liner! Seems somehow to be a very perfect poem for us as we talk about re-reading the thread, or starting 'at the beginning'

Maybe the beginning of the year is inviting a new freshness to the thread with new people saying hi and old hats popping in, and with what seems like such a significant poem like a message from MJ (how does anyone know he wrote it?) no matter as it is pretty fitting for the 'love story'

;) OR, as AllforMJ would say, its starting to once again have that, "the love story continues as the mystery unfolds........", feeling. - - or as Lisha would say, "FUN"! :)
 
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SkysTheLimit

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You're most welcome! To that explanation I might add that it's a thread that's more about what you may feel he was trying to accomplish by writing or singing certain songs or sets or types or patterns of songs and/or what he was saying or trying to say over the years in general.

And that its called Did MJ FLITD because the first song that started it off is Someone In The Dark but not sure if that theme is clear in this thread as this thread is actually a continuation of itself the first of which became destroyed or the thread starter took it down? not sure which, during a past blitz the entire board had experienced with hackers, if I recall that correctly? from 2007? or so.

(Girls/Guys of LITD Land feel free to jump in if you can or wish - these are my take-aways from this thread)

We have found reading and writing in this thread about l.o.v.e. has been a respite from the rest of the 'world' where here true l.o.v.e.is amplified..

With all that said, SkysTheLimit (LOVE your username and that great gif) :) welcome to the thread!


(I'm gonna start feeling like a moderator of the thread if someone else doesn't show up soon! I'm actually hardly ever on these days, just a period of extended down time!) :lol:

Would love to see if any one who's been reading over time have any additions knowing its a huge thread to wade through so if you find that you're feelin it, feel free jump in or to just take your time! ;) and enjoy!

Thank you so much! Actually coming up with my name was quiet hard LOL! I think my gif was from rehearsal footage from some TV Special. :)

Let me see if i can give my thoughts on his romantic songs,
I know that Michael was so passionate and could convey any kind of message with his voice to make you believe what he was saying, especially his love songs. For example Liberian Girl, he came up with it while playing pinball, but when you listen to it, you really feel like he was deeply in love with someone. That kind of passion IMO is rare.
I think as he got older and his music progressed his love songs got deeper and more personal, i think it's because by the time Invincible for example came around he had already experienced true love (I like to think). If that makes sense?
Well i sure hope i did that right. Thanks again for helping me out, I'll try to be regular in this thread! :)
 

SoS

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Thank you so much! Actually coming up with my name was quiet hard LOL! I think my gif was from rehearsal footage from some TV Special. :)

Let me see if i can give my thoughts on his romantic songs,
I know that Michael was so passionate and could convey any kind of message with his voice to make you believe what he was saying, especially his love songs. For example Liberian Girl, he came up with it while playing pinball, but when you listen to it, you really feel like he was deeply in love with someone. That kind of passion IMO is rare.
I think as he got older and his music progressed his love songs got deeper and more personal, i think it's because by the time Invincible for example came around he had already experienced true love (I like to think). If that makes sense?
Well i sure hope i did that right. Thanks again for helping me out, I'll try to be regular in this thread! :)

:D You did that imho, in just the right manner and tone of the thread! ;)

SORRY THIS IS SO LONG! Everyone here is pretty used to my "books" as I try to get it all in at once :giggle: as no telling when I have to be gone a while.

Presumably since you mentioned Invincible this will be of interest to you or some long time lurkers. I do hope some other old timers do jump in here because my brain is fryyd right now on the details of the songs we've discussed for so long but I'll try to give a sense of where the thread has been to this point. I believe the concensus was same as I believe we came up with the same result, just after Invincible.

There have been a number of discussions about Vince and all the other albums' tones and themes, looking at the consistency of the themes and his seeming personal 'vibe' or 'tone' he was sending out.

I will share with you one such discussion of Invincible in the link below, many of which have taken place in parts way back in the thread. Here is where the thread starter (AllforMJ) had commented on each album and pointed out their patterns which took the convo to another sort of level for lack of a better word.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...-(continued)?p=1865186&viewfull=1#post1865186

That is a link to a part where that discussion takes place but if it doesn't work it was on and around page 224 meanwhile see if the below link works for you. I post it a number of times just for easy reach.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...-(continued)?p=1865186&viewfull=1#post1865186

Meanwhile, it was noted that after Invincible his tone changed with the release of songs on Number Ones and was pointed out things other than lyrics and emotional tone, such as the 'odd' song order, (speaking to MJ's penchant for 'symbolism' of sorts?) that OMC was actually a brand new song on an album of Number 1s (as number ones by definition is songs from the past) and that 'Ben' being his first (or one of his first?) number one solo hits was the last cut in the album. There was another really interesting thing about Ben but its late and it won't come to me atm. One thing is that it was a similiar tone to Someone In The Dark, that being a true love as defined by purity and unconditionality of any sort vs. the songs that were about him feeling he had to 'do' something to get her attention or to 'get through' to "her" (and we are always quick to add, if there is a "her" of course) and his continued quest for the true unconditional love which seemed to occur for him consistently in the more recent songs/releases.
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...-(continued)?p=1865186&viewfull=1#post1865186

Its a lot to wade through admittedly but worth it if you can get into it in such fine detail as so many in this thread have over a long period of time!

The thread starter also pointed out a number of things no one else had noticed such as there was a point when he stopped singing songs with a tone of disappointments, frustrations, irritations and aggrivations about "her" being "missing" from his life and all the various 'conditional' things he would DO for her, eg., giving her all sorts of material things as pointed out in earlier albums, including Vince eg., "...and everything I own I'll give" ..."I would do anything babe" (butterflies)

There may have been more of that in Dangerous than any of the others starting with GITM and pretty much all the rest of the songs, the closest thing to a 'pure love' song possibly being, WYBT. In the Closet being another 'fantasy' sort of theme eg., "....whatever we do and say...we'll just ..." meaning something not yet REAL to him.

Bad, which although it had Liberian Girl bespoke more of fantasy (eg., just like in the movies...and I'll say...and you'll say..." or TWYMMF where like with Streetwalker it was about 'feeling fever' lol type of thing, or IJCSLY being a song that seemed to 'explain' the reason for all the 'longings' he would continue singing about in many songs to come.

And so she pointed out in another part of the thread that with Number Ones began a new theme of his "starting over" so to say with One More Chance, and the Ultimate Collection eg,, Fall Again, which seemed to tie in with the release at the same time of the demo for PYT written around the time of SITD, and the tone of songs like, For All Time, The Way You Love Me ... took on a more 'unconditional' theme and he began directing lyrics in more of a language of "you" rather than "she" - and rather than the previous tone of comparison or competition, eg., "he can't do it like me", or sad songs like, Don't Walk Away and other various songs of disappointment or pure aggrivation you hear in his voice or sad longing or frustration, in For All Time, One More Chance and even Fall Again there is a more 'presence" more 'vibrance" more intentionality of true love and not just that sort of "bribing" theme going on. More like LOVE rather than desperation.

You Are My Life was discussed a lot and was also thought of as a song that although came through the inspiration of watching children play still had that lamentation to it as with also Butterflies (although utterly beautiful "she" still was far away from his life, Heaven Can Wait although utterly beautiful was also of a sad theme....etc.

Hope this is helping see where its been. I will have to come back and check/edit later.
:)
Any thoughts you have around any of this, also feel free to share and its ok to not see it in the same way as the thread starter or anyone else, as there are multiple points of view, its just that these observations took on a somewhat predominant focus over time. I hate to say skip around the thread because I know its huge but is highly recommended if you have time. And if not that's understandable too :lol:

Although this is only one area of the thread that popped out at me I hope it offers some help to see what I mean:

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...-(continued)?p=1865186&viewfull=1#post1865186
 
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SoS

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^ Sorry :) it was late and I was :dizzy: :lol: although I also think I mixed it up with Speechless where (he and?) children were at play, in a water balloon fight? :)

If you see any other errors ( it wouldn't surprise me cause I was tired) please do jump in again as I can use all the help I can get ..... please ;) fellow old=timer. :giggle:

seriously tho, thanks :) and any of you other old timers too
 
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MattyJam

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This is my first response to this thread, so I hope I have done okay. Please let me know if I've messed up.


Here goes...


I've always been intrigued by the last few lines of Heaven Can Wait, as he sings "leave us alone, please leave us alone" and then he changes it to "leave ME alone."


Not only is it musically beautiful and haunting, I always wondered why he changed the last two lines from "us" to "me." Obviously on the surface of it, it is merely an extension of the line "if the angels came for me I'd tell them no." But I can't help but feel that it runs a little deeper than that. When you hear the passion in which Michael is singing it, he is really feeling those lines, he sounds desperate, almost pleading to be left alone. I can't help but wonder what was going through his head as he was singing those parts.

It may sound a little morbid, but I wonder if he sensed that he was nearing the last few years of his life and with all the troubles and BS drama swirling around him, he just wanted to lead a quiet, humble existence with his children and perhaps one or two trusted friends. I think he wanted to live out his days in peace and the end of HCW is him expressing those sentiments.
 

SoS

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This is my first response to this thread, so I hope I have done okay. Please let me know if I've messed up.


Here goes...


I've always been intrigued by the last few lines of Heaven Can Wait, as he sings "leave us alone, please leave us alone" and then he changes it to "leave ME alone."


Not only is it musically beautiful and haunting, I always wondered why he changed the last two lines from "us" to "me." Obviously on the surface of it, it is merely an extension of the line "if the angels came for me I'd tell them no." But I can't help but feel that it runs a little deeper than that. When you hear the passion in which Michael is singing it, he is really feeling those lines, he sounds desperate, almost pleading to be left alone. I can't help but wonder what was going through his head as he was singing those parts.

It may sound a little morbid, but I wonder if he sensed that he was nearing the last few years of his life and with all the troubles and BS drama swirling around him, he just wanted to lead a quiet, humble existence with his children and perhaps one or two trusted friends. I think he wanted to live out his days in peace and the end of HCW is him expressing those sentiments.

Great! :yes: that's the spirit of what we've been doing indeed.

Interesting point of view, and not morbid at all imho

It seems like something AllforMJ would notice and btw I quote AllforMJ a lot because she really stimulated detailed thought with this thread (and much revelation) beyond face value for me and others as the thread progressed although we all did not necessarily see everything eye to eye (always in l.o.v.e. tho) and as AllforMJ was always pointing out, (and Moddie and others began to notice) there seems to be a sort of 'prophetic' quality about some of MJ's writings, eg. as she caused me to realize for myself was that in WYBT I don't see how he could have known he would experience "trials and tribulations" as it was written a couple or few short years before the first "trial or tribulation",in 1993 when the song must have been penned around or before 1990 or 1991 when the album was released

So that line in HCW could have possibly been somewhat prophetic then?

As an aside; before this thread, I used to take MJ's lyrics all very literally (not saying you are) and rather superficially like if a song came out after a "love" in his life that was publicized I took it that was for "her" or if a song sounds like he's irritated, aggrivated or angry I assumed he was irritated, angry or whatever until I entered this thread and began to really listen. I noticed that there do seem to be quite a few nuances and more depth to many of his love-related songs, even the "angry" ones, than at face value, so with the "soft and sweet love" songs, it could indeed have some "double meaning" as we have discussed here many times as well.

As another aside; at the very start of this convo in the first thread that got gone, my dominant outlook had been that a song is really JUST A SONG from my experience with song writers growing up, who did not seem to have any extensive meanings beyond just the song itself, but after discovering that with MJ, after his childhood was over, it seemed plausible that it could be a way for him to 'cryptically communicate' if his life was as such that he could not simply "be" - let alone simply be straight-forward without everyone weighing in (eg., managers, family, fans, media, public etc.) and those nuances have made this thread what it has become with noticing there did seem to be revealed a sort of "cryptic" quality to many of his songs, highlighted throughout here - operative word being, "seem". of course.

back to your thought

I take it to mean he wants Heaven to let him stay and do his thing, ("her") here on earth, as in other songs where he seems to want to be able to freely love whomever he chooses because its his life, and what I feel he means by 'leave me alone" in that context rather than the usual 'get off my back' sort of context reminds me of what he's saying in the song TDCAU (let me know if this is/is not what you mean or what u think about this all)

Tell me what has become of my life
I have a wife and two children who love me

then later says, '

"let me be"

,my wife + my life = "me" ? Anyway, that's mho, what I thought of when I read your observation. :)

Sorry that maybe could have been a lot shorter
 
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MattyJam

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That was a very interesting read
SoS.

The theme of leaving him be is recurrant through much of his later work. A lot of people seem to assume he is talking about the media or the Santa Barbara police department, but I wonder if it isn't always that literal.

Obviously in some cases he is addressing these people directly and there isn't much more to read into it, but with a song like Xscape for example, he just sounds tired of his life in general.

It is very easy to create characutures of the people in Michael's life, Tom Sneddon, the Chandlers and the media being the big bad wolves and the fans being Michael's loyal disciples. In reality, I think Michael's life was a lot more complicated than that. Yes, the Chandlers and Sneddon were responsible for untold heartache and many of the problems which blighted the last decade of his life stemmed from the fallout from 1993. However, I think it was more likely the pressures of his everyday life which caused him to despair. The managers he used to hide from, the business advisors he couldn't trust, personal and professional friends who didn't want to know in his hour of need, a family always gunning for the next reunion show. I think these people caused Michael far more pain than the Chandlers or any salacious news story ever could.

One of the most poignant and devastating lines in any MJ song is the middle eight to Xscape. "When I'm gone, this problem world won't bother me no more." That says it all really. None of us can begin to imagine the pressure he faced his entire life, from when he was the main bread-winner for his family at only eight years of age right through to his adult life, with everyone exploiting his unparalleled fame and fairweather friends with hidden agendas using his unorthodox lifestyle choices against him.

"I've got to get away so I can free my mind."

When you think about it, he faced it from all angles. Everybody in his life - even the fans who loved him so dearly - wanted something from him. "I will fly away" he ad-libs in one part of Xscape. The fantasy of escaping his life is something which must've become increasingly alluring to Michael.
 
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mysterygirl7

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^ You are so right :doh: he did only say it was his children, period...or all I know or read about anyway.
. Sorry :) it was late and I was :dizzy: :lol: although I also think I mixed it up with Speechless where (he and?) children were at play, in a water balloon fight? :)

If you see any other errors ( it wouldn't surprise me cause I was tired) please do jump in again as I can use all the help I can get ..... please ;) fellow old=timer. :giggle:

seriously tho, thanks :) and any of you other old timers too

Thanks:ciao:

Glad you actually appreciated my little correction.. but are you sure he ever said it? I have never read that, or heard it, but he played the song at the end of "Private Home Movies" and ever since that, the phrase has been "He wrote that song to his children".. don't know, if fans just started saying that or what?

Speechless however, he said in an interview, like you are saying, that he saw some children playing in the forest, or something like that. And another time, he said that he wrote it after a waterballoonfight in Germany.
 
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