Pre-Note: Sorry typos! It's so late my eyesight is blurred! I promise to edit within 48 hours
So nice to see Wendy_jane and Magic Girl again, two wonderfuly "familiar faces" in this fan-fic fun thread.
Girl - your post was SO FUN and stimulating to read, you had me cracking up laughing with some of your phrasings and I agree with most everything you said... including some of your areas of disagreement for example I can see why you (nor anyone lol) may not hear what I hear in Opis None because of the simple fact that neither did I make out anything in particular whatsoever myself in what initially sounded like a pure mashup of sounds. It's a spoken vocal (only four distinct words) in actually the first 3-4 seconds among the other random sounds.
I agree we in this thread experienced it all through our own "filters" and as you say, our "values" and different things, in fact I love how you broke that whole thing down as it's quite true.
I realize most fans are uncomfortable with talk of (to put it delicately) any type of "strategy" he and his entire family might have used to get him into a more normal existence (and ensure his children, unlike him, grow up more naturally than he did rather than under more than already necessary unnatural pressure) although I also always felt that for the few fans willing to consider it, allowed themselves to interpret his stage direction of "play with them ...then bam", to mean that he's coming back some day - but of course that would seem to defeat the purpose of a very long very public "send off" in the form of memorial, funeral, tributes etc. just to "come back" and get back on the world's public roller coaster once again.
As regards "strategy" however for his sanity sake (andI know hardly anyone agrees) but I feel that fans who say, "he wouldn't do that to his (take a pick) kids.... fans ...family ...just aren't paying particularly close attention to the finer details.
I think fans probably agree on at least one thing: If anyone deserved to actually retire from being hounded and hunted, it certainly would be MJ.
The comment "money criteria" was a bad paraphrase of comments he either implied or made throughout the decades in various interviews (I dislike misquoting or lacking proofs so I will be archive-hunting) about just what you mentioned, that it was so hard to know who wanted him for him and who was just a gold digger.
I recall in one such interview he mentioned that one of his sister's told him that he needed someone with her own money and he felt that was probably true. I called it "ironic" because he generously doled out to those who were full of games afterall (as he said in the song, Xscape). "Gold diggers" indeed and to the highest order, a lady separated from her husband and her son who received the Royal treatment and a "good friend" who "gave" him babies as a "gift" - a "present" - somehow ending up with millions of his dollars and when those millions ran out her "present" somehow yielded her more millions. I'm sure the best interpretation of her asking and receiving all that money for her kind friendly gesture was that to him it was a small "price" to pay. I'm sure that is so in the end.
Ironic sort of like Job in the Bible who said, " what I have feared has come upon me". It's also noteworthy that it seems that his most "normal" relationship was with someone who indeed had her own money.
It may seem at this point a futile discussion of the music however it's what he left us with. Regardless to whether we ever correctly surmise what went on with him in the end, the question has really only and always been (for me) what in essence is the "story" (beginning middle and end) as presented in the man's music. The fact of him being innately a story teller and dream weaver of sorts is difficult to not notice. It's something that cones naturally since childhood.
Getting back to "values" and "filters" of interpretations of this thread, on a personal note as I've "confessed" in times past of this thread that I don't doubt that it's probably that which cause me to interpret or see the songs the way I do. I'm curious to know what drives the interpretatiobsvif others ascwell.
Personal experiences create personal biases and no doubt when this thread started I began to fir the first time really hear and notice songs about him continually beseeching "someone" with "I'll give you this, I'll give you that, let down your walls, stop resisting, running etc"., from album to album with "someone'' all the time depicted as being someone (and perhaps a composite "someone/s") trying (IMO) to tell him that it's the "material things" that he's focused on that keeps "her" from showing up - the reverse of his "fear" - in fact indicating this ''perfect love" may have started face to face and ended together-apart.
I see/saw hercas possibly saying, "come as you are, MJ not what you "bring"" because of my filters of having a dad who trained me to run from any guy who leads with his "stuff" rather than himself. Classic "filter" of "values" I guess you could say so to me in hindsight of putting the musical theme of that particular topic, it makes sense that someone who really loved him might just "try to tell him something" like, "it's not your stuff I love - it's you- your soul".
Of course that probably makes little sense to anyone else. Not to mention the sheer foolishness of the very thought of running away from the King's riches, however I'm saying as far as I can fathom, THAT would be MY reason.
Who would want to go down in history as the fool who ran from MJ's money though really whilst everyone else is running after it? Someone who perhaps felt a deeper need for him to "get" that message perhaps? That's the only reason I can fathom. "Someone/s" seemed to have done just that - if the songs since (on) Dangerous are any indication, that is, as each album since Dangerous has a song of that quality to it.. if... you count YANA. "Every night I sit and ask myself how did love slip away" - but the rest of the song indicates that love never slipped away - only "SHE" did.. Invincible continues that theme...You Rock My World ("and everything I own I'll give")... Butterflies...."I will give you anything..". but the "I can feel you near to me" feels like YANA's, "I can hear your prayers" - noting, he wrote neither song, yet the theme continues. Like a braid, so many themes that overlap also intersect.
Well as it turns out, yours is the post that might keep this going a year lol because there's so much more of your insightful thoughts to comment on. It was a really great read. I have to take my time and read it again as it was a lot to digest.
I'll be back to do so as time allows.
I too want to thank you so much for enlivening the thread!
So nice to see Wendy_jane and Magic Girl again, two wonderfuly "familiar faces" in this fan-fic fun thread.
Girl - your post was SO FUN and stimulating to read, you had me cracking up laughing with some of your phrasings and I agree with most everything you said... including some of your areas of disagreement for example I can see why you (nor anyone lol) may not hear what I hear in Opis None because of the simple fact that neither did I make out anything in particular whatsoever myself in what initially sounded like a pure mashup of sounds. It's a spoken vocal (only four distinct words) in actually the first 3-4 seconds among the other random sounds.
I agree we in this thread experienced it all through our own "filters" and as you say, our "values" and different things, in fact I love how you broke that whole thing down as it's quite true.
I realize most fans are uncomfortable with talk of (to put it delicately) any type of "strategy" he and his entire family might have used to get him into a more normal existence (and ensure his children, unlike him, grow up more naturally than he did rather than under more than already necessary unnatural pressure) although I also always felt that for the few fans willing to consider it, allowed themselves to interpret his stage direction of "play with them ...then bam", to mean that he's coming back some day - but of course that would seem to defeat the purpose of a very long very public "send off" in the form of memorial, funeral, tributes etc. just to "come back" and get back on the world's public roller coaster once again.
As regards "strategy" however for his sanity sake (andI know hardly anyone agrees) but I feel that fans who say, "he wouldn't do that to his (take a pick) kids.... fans ...family ...just aren't paying particularly close attention to the finer details.
I think fans probably agree on at least one thing: If anyone deserved to actually retire from being hounded and hunted, it certainly would be MJ.
The comment "money criteria" was a bad paraphrase of comments he either implied or made throughout the decades in various interviews (I dislike misquoting or lacking proofs so I will be archive-hunting) about just what you mentioned, that it was so hard to know who wanted him for him and who was just a gold digger.
I recall in one such interview he mentioned that one of his sister's told him that he needed someone with her own money and he felt that was probably true. I called it "ironic" because he generously doled out to those who were full of games afterall (as he said in the song, Xscape). "Gold diggers" indeed and to the highest order, a lady separated from her husband and her son who received the Royal treatment and a "good friend" who "gave" him babies as a "gift" - a "present" - somehow ending up with millions of his dollars and when those millions ran out her "present" somehow yielded her more millions. I'm sure the best interpretation of her asking and receiving all that money for her kind friendly gesture was that to him it was a small "price" to pay. I'm sure that is so in the end.
Ironic sort of like Job in the Bible who said, " what I have feared has come upon me". It's also noteworthy that it seems that his most "normal" relationship was with someone who indeed had her own money.
It may seem at this point a futile discussion of the music however it's what he left us with. Regardless to whether we ever correctly surmise what went on with him in the end, the question has really only and always been (for me) what in essence is the "story" (beginning middle and end) as presented in the man's music. The fact of him being innately a story teller and dream weaver of sorts is difficult to not notice. It's something that cones naturally since childhood.
Getting back to "values" and "filters" of interpretations of this thread, on a personal note as I've "confessed" in times past of this thread that I don't doubt that it's probably that which cause me to interpret or see the songs the way I do. I'm curious to know what drives the interpretatiobsvif others ascwell.
Personal experiences create personal biases and no doubt when this thread started I began to fir the first time really hear and notice songs about him continually beseeching "someone" with "I'll give you this, I'll give you that, let down your walls, stop resisting, running etc"., from album to album with "someone'' all the time depicted as being someone (and perhaps a composite "someone/s") trying (IMO) to tell him that it's the "material things" that he's focused on that keeps "her" from showing up - the reverse of his "fear" - in fact indicating this ''perfect love" may have started face to face and ended together-apart.
I see/saw hercas possibly saying, "come as you are, MJ not what you "bring"" because of my filters of having a dad who trained me to run from any guy who leads with his "stuff" rather than himself. Classic "filter" of "values" I guess you could say so to me in hindsight of putting the musical theme of that particular topic, it makes sense that someone who really loved him might just "try to tell him something" like, "it's not your stuff I love - it's you- your soul".
Of course that probably makes little sense to anyone else. Not to mention the sheer foolishness of the very thought of running away from the King's riches, however I'm saying as far as I can fathom, THAT would be MY reason.
Who would want to go down in history as the fool who ran from MJ's money though really whilst everyone else is running after it? Someone who perhaps felt a deeper need for him to "get" that message perhaps? That's the only reason I can fathom. "Someone/s" seemed to have done just that - if the songs since (on) Dangerous are any indication, that is, as each album since Dangerous has a song of that quality to it.. if... you count YANA. "Every night I sit and ask myself how did love slip away" - but the rest of the song indicates that love never slipped away - only "SHE" did.. Invincible continues that theme...You Rock My World ("and everything I own I'll give")... Butterflies...."I will give you anything..". but the "I can feel you near to me" feels like YANA's, "I can hear your prayers" - noting, he wrote neither song, yet the theme continues. Like a braid, so many themes that overlap also intersect.
Well as it turns out, yours is the post that might keep this going a year lol because there's so much more of your insightful thoughts to comment on. It was a really great read. I have to take my time and read it again as it was a lot to digest.
I'll be back to do so as time allows.
I too want to thank you so much for enlivening the thread!
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girls. You've really outdone yourselves, congrats :clapping: Not just with your perfect sense of timing, but also with the quality of the material. 
