Did MJ lie about the amount of surgery he had?

How many times do I have to repeat I'm not denying he had some plastic surgery done? But the great amount people in general and some fans alike attribute him we're reconstructive surgeries because lupus in Michael's case treated his skin tissue like it were a foreign agent which had to be attacked and/or destroyed. So naturally he had procedures to RECONSTRUCT what was damaged and/or destroyed. I'm paraphrasing the doctor who was present during the strip search, Michael was trying to look as normal as possible given the circumstances.

Psychoniff came back to stir up shit, quite typical of him. He's not happy if he doesn't create some sort of arguments and controversy.
 
lubyss;4157444 said:
Yes, but don´t talk about it like he got a surgery to change the shape... This is just make-up and bodyart... Not plastic surgery :) So basically there is no change :)

His lip change, in my opinion was by choice... So I can speak about it as a cosmetic procedure... It would not be difficult to tattoo within the lip lines... it's basic tracing.. getting those arches on the lips is changing shape not just coloring which is what with Vitiligo is usually used for.. I doubt Michael got some rookie tattoo artist off the street..

I believe Vitiligo was a factor in lip coloring but he probably was like.. "while I'm getting It colored...."


actual surgery as I Mentioned I believe only on the nose (more than twice for sure) and the cleft.. I believe the nose work effected the eyes.. than I consider the lip tattooing (shape portion) as a cosmetic procedure than changed his appearance as well.. along with botox.. the tattoos under his eye lids were sometimes noticeable depending on makeup.

and for those who say the scalp tattoo was because of vitiligo does not make much sense to me, it (from public knowledge) to blend his hair line with his wigs.. and people have done that before..
 
I don't think Michael changed the shape of his lips by choice either. Lips are part of the skin tissue, so it wouldn't surprise me if lupus damaged them as well as his nose I'm posting a mild example of what the disease is capable to do to the skin, there are worse cases of people with part of their noses and lips missing.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/images/articles/292/292676/lupus-face-rash.jpg
 
We can debate it all day on why this or that.. It did change his appearance.


That's not a 'mild' case of lupus btw, nor does lupus make peoples nose fall off.. Regarding Lupus Michael dealt with the sun sensitivity of course, butterfly rashes and other forms..


Where did we come from denying that Michaels nose was falling off for years to connecting lupus with nose falling off??

Come on... It's like we are trying to give every excuse in the book ASIDE from wanting cosmetic changes.. To me that's denial, the same denial when years ago on MJJC, might have been MJJF at the time when I said I was worried about Michaels sleep.. Fans jumped down on me like you wouldn't believe.. Come to find out!!!!



Listen, he changed the way he looked. as much as the media says.. NO! so I get the sensitivity around it, I do my fair share of defending.. But come on, lets not try to pretend he did not change his looks.. Whatever the reason! Lupus doesn't make body parts fall off..


Lupus causes rashes, hair loss, fatigue, teeth thinning, Sun allergy, fever, joint issues, dry eyes, fingers/toes turning color in cold, shortened breath, chest pain, headaches, memory loss... I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple off the top of my head! the disease is much more common in women and general when men get it (not always) it generally has less effect on the body.
 
To be honest, I don't Michael lied about the surgeries he had on his face at all. But I strongly believe he had 3 surgeries for his nose and added a cleft on his chin and that was it. I can tell just 3 on his nose, like the 1st time he's done after he falls and broke it accidentally, the 2nd time thinned it which he wanted to reach higher notes and the breathe a little better and I did notice the last one was before the Bad era and after that his nose was never touched at all.
 
To be honest, I don't Michael lied about the surgeries he had on his face at all. But I strongly believe he had 3 surgeries for his nose and added a cleft on his chin and that was it. I can tell just 3 on his nose, like the 1st time he's done after he falls and broke it accidentally, the 2nd time thinned it which he wanted to reach higher notes and the breathe a little better and I did notice the last one was before the Bad era and after that his nose was never touched at all.

Sorry but the idea that he did it to reach higher notes (even if that's from the horses mouth) is ridiculous.

I don't see why so many have a blind spot in this area. Use your frigging eyes.

It doesn't detract from the fact he was the worlds best musical artist of all time.
 
Pop - you say he didn't lie than you say he did 3 surgeries.. He only admitted 2. lol


And Michael was a horrible liar, which is a good trait. He was a naturally honest person so when he did lie it was super obvious.. And no just about surgeries.. But when it comes down to the topic.. Him saying "Two.." with his body giving the look of admission.. than he says after being asks as he looks off to the side.. "as I can remember." lol!! "As I can remember?" He has to know exactly how many procedures he's had to his nose.. come on really?

He does this look off and unconfident answers when he lies.. He was too honest to be good liar..
 
Sorry but the idea that he did it to reach higher notes (even if that's from the horses mouth) is ridiculous.

I don't see why so many have a blind spot in this area. Use your frigging eyes.

It doesn't detract from the fact he was the worlds best musical artist of all time.

I didn't mean to like this and I clicked it by accident, so have your free like.

Also "Honesty"' hasn't made this thread take the turn it has.
The reason this thread is going the way it is, is because a few people (including yourself) are uneducated about Michael's medical conditions and thinks that they know things that they don't really know.
 
I didn't mean to like this and I clicked it by accident, so have your free like.

Also "Honesty"' hasn't made this thread take the turn it has.
The reason this thread is going the way it is, is because a few people (including yourself) are uneducated about Michael's medical conditions and thinks that they know things that they don't really know.

Great news about my free like, I'll retire tomorrow.
 
Great news about my free like, I'll retire tomorrow.

Care to address the rest of my statement, or are you going to continue to exaggerate and say things that aren't factual in any way because you, I, nor anyone else truly knows how many surgeries MJ actually had.

I have no idea how people that know about MJ's medical conditions can come to the conclusion that he had a ton of elective surgeries.
 
this thread got 7 pages so far because it strike an interesting convo.. I don't see the big problem! sometimes I feel like fandom becomes like a religion where when someone has a question, or a different view... Basically if any type of friction in a 'kumbiya' atmosphere is created its a 'bad' thing.

To me it's not.. That's where independent thinking is.. And my view, why shy away from talking about this topic when no one else outside the fan community is? It's nice to have conversations about things that could be a little controversial with fellow fans instead of tabloid reading random people..

I mean it's MICHAEL JACKSON, how do we go year after year pretending things like plastic surgery, PR, unique behavior did not circulate around him? We become so detailed and educated when it comes to protecting Michael from the media and people that hurt Michael but than when it comes to things that Michael DID do we tend to act..... ummm, silly?!?!

We can all have different takes on what we seen of Michael and it's ok to discuss.. We are here out of LOVE for Michael.. believe me there are a lot more proactive things I could be doing right now at work than type this lol! but I keep coming back because of love for the man.. I think it's safe to say for most of us here.. 99% of us.
 
I'm not sure whether he lied or not about his surgeries but I don't really care either. Even as he got older he still liked to confuse the media since they twisted his words anyway. His reconstructive surgeries definitely outnumbered his cosmetic ones though.

People seem to forget he suffered from lupus which also thinned his hair out as the years passed so he had to resort to extensions and wigs. (even without the pepsi accident it would've been inevitable, I think)
 
I don't think Michael changed the shape of his lips by choice either. Lips are part of the skin tissue, so it wouldn't surprise me if lupus damaged them as well as his nose I'm posting a mild example of what the disease is capable to do to the skin, there are worse cases of people with part of their noses and lips missing.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/images/articles/292/292676/lupus-face-rash.jpg

I think that's a bit far-fetched. His lips didn't look damaged to me and no amount of make-up could cover that up. My guess is that the lip colouring appears to change the shape of his lips because it marks the contours more clearly (the colouring is a bit darker than his natural lip colour). I know that my lips look very different when I wear lipstick, even if I stay "between the lines" so to speak. Just like mascara can change the appearance of your eyes' shape even when you just apply it on your lashes. You don't need fake lashes for that, just the slightly different colour and accentuation of the mascara is enough.

We can debate it all day on why this or that.. It did change his appearance.

That's not a 'mild' case of lupus btw, nor does lupus make peoples nose fall off.. Regarding Lupus Michael dealt with the sun sensitivity of course, butterfly rashes and other forms..

Where did we come from denying that Michaels nose was falling off for years to connecting lupus with nose falling off??

Come on... It's like we are trying to give every excuse in the book ASIDE from wanting cosmetic changes.. To me that's denial, the same denial when years ago on MJJC, might have been MJJF at the time when I said I was worried about Michaels sleep.. Fans jumped down on me like you wouldn't believe.. Come to find out!!!!

Listen, he changed the way he looked. as much as the media says.. NO! so I get the sensitivity around it, I do my fair share of defending.. But come on, lets not try to pretend he did not change his looks.. Whatever the reason! Lupus doesn't make body parts fall off..

Lupus causes rashes, hair loss, fatigue, teeth thinning, Sun allergy, fever, joint issues, dry eyes, fingers/toes turning color in cold, shortened breath, chest pain, headaches, memory loss... I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple off the top of my head! the disease is much more common in women and general when men get it (not always) it generally has less effect on the body.

Who said Michael's nose was falling off? :unsure:

I don't think considering the effect that lupus might have had on his body is making "excuses" for Michael's changing appearance. Michael doesn't need any excuses, he was free to do whatever he wanted with his body and I never quite understood the obsession with his appearance anyway. But I don't think you can have an honest discussion about this when you ignore the medical aspect. And I honestly feel like you underestimate the severity of Michael's case with lupus if you are willing to dismiss it so easily. Perhaps it's because he never spoke about it openly like he did with vitiligo but the symptoms were very much there. It's true that lupus does not affect everyone the same way but based on what we know about Michael's medical history, it's clear that it wasn't harmless to Michael. According to Arnold Klein, he was already dealing with hair loss, rashes and crusting of his scalp as a result of lupus way back in the early 80s. You can't ignore that when you talk about Michael wearing wigs/hair extentions or having permanent make-up on his scalp. Does it explain the particular hair style Michael chose for himself? No, that's a separate matter. Who knows what Michael was thinking when he decided to wear his hair long and straight during Invincible. You are right, there is no excuse for that, lol. Or about his plastic surgeries, lupus does not explain why Michael had the initial surgeries on his nose and chin but it may be why Michael needed subsequent corrective procedures as lupus can impair the healing process. Lupus explains why Michael had to wear clothes that covered him from head to toe but it's not the reason Michael chose to wear those clothes. That was all him. And there are many examples like that :)

But as I said before, this subject always makes me a little uncomfortable because I don't like to speculate about Michael's physical or mental condition and this was obviously a very sensitive issue for him.
 
That's not really answering the question though, now is it? :p

Okay, longer answer...

Did he lie? Sure probably? But it's not really my business. Why should he have said? His life was so picked apart already he deserved some privacy. Since we are being asked...I also think like the post above me that some of his medical issues had an effect on why/how much he had done. Also personal cosmetic reasons. I think the media would have twisted his words either way even if he would have admitted exactly how much. I never understood the media fascination over Michael or others plastic surgery anyway. It was his face not mine.
 
Linda - I don't think anyone is underestimating the effect of Lupus or Vitiligo on MJs appearance.. When that comment mentioned that peoples nose falls off from Lupus which is not the case is where why I stated "excuse".. Lupus does not cause body parts to fall off.. So specifically that was aimed at his nose changing, and also in my view his lip shape change.. I do not see that being a lupus or vitiligo thing.. coloring of lips yes, but shape no!

I don't think you'd sit there and say Mikes nose jobs were because of Lupus right?
 
Sorry but the idea that he did it to reach higher notes (even if that's from the horses mouth) is ridiculous.

I don't see why so many have a blind spot in this area. Use your frigging eyes.

It doesn't detract from the fact he was the worlds best musical artist of all time.

Pop - you say he didn't lie than you say he did 3 surgeries.. He only admitted 2. lol


And Michael was a horrible liar, which is a good trait. He was a naturally honest person so when he did lie it was super obvious.. And no just about surgeries.. But when it comes down to the topic.. Him saying "Two.." with his body giving the look of admission.. than he says after being asks as he looks off to the side.. "as I can remember." lol!! "As I can remember?" He has to know exactly how many procedures he's had to his nose.. come on really?

He does this look off and unconfident answers when he lies.. He was too honest to be good liar..

Are you saying I'm a liar? Because if you think that, then I'm insulted. You can disagree with me all you want, but I do NOT appreciate yous telling me to use my eyes and he's liar for that matter. I'm not fricking blind like those sports referees ya know and I know he's honest, but even people and the media should even stop poking their noses into his own business. Again, disagree with me all you want I don't care, but you have no right to insult me. So there.:pth:
 
^ wo wo wo, settle down there buddy... haha!! no one is calling you a liar, you just mentioned something that was not true.. which means you did not remember correctly.. Michael admitted to 2 nose jobs, and you said you can tell he had 3 and you believe Michael.. simple as that, no need to get heated over it. Just a contradiction to what Michael stated.
 
^ wo wo wo, settle down there buddy... haha!! no one is calling you a liar, you just mentioned something that was not true.. which means you did not remember correctly.. Michael admitted to 2 nose jobs, and you said you can tell he had 3 and you believe Michael.. simple as that, no need to get heated over it. Just a contradiction to what Michael stated.

Well thank you very much. I do believe he had 2 surgeries, but when I look at many pics all the time, it looked like he had just 3 and nothing more than that like explained in the first place.
 
I think to know if Michael lies about surgery, we can see his Live concerts. There Michael is sweating ( less makeup ). Just compare Michael Jackson Bad Cover and his face on the Bad Tour, yes there is change but it is due to makeup on the cover ( here I'm talking about (84-2001).
 
1nn5;4157766 said:
I think to know if Michael lies about surgery, we can see his Live concerts. There Michael is sweating ( less makeup ). Just compare Michael Jackson Bad Cover and his face on the Bad Tour, yes there is change but it is due to makeup on the cover ( here I'm talking about (84-2001).

You can´t compare official photos.. Cause they´ve been photoshopped...
 
lubyss;4157847 said:
You can´t compare official photos.. Cause they´ve been photoshopped...

Off the Wall - Thriller - Bad, photoshoped?
Well, seeing the Live concerts I (my opinion) can say that MJ had surgery (after Bad Era) between 1999-2001 , and then 2001-2009

Notice:Make in consideration the weight of Michael when you talk about his face, in 2009 Michael lost too much of his weight.
 
Yes... Especially the BAD album cover is photoshoped :)
 
Michael had 2 obvious surgeries by 1983 and if you don't think there was any work done after that.. youre trippin'..

regarding makeup making Mike look different, heck yeah.. I mean Michael in the Bad video was lighter than he was in 1990/1991..
 
.. I mean Michael in the Bad video was lighter than he was in 1990/1991..
It's makeup, asyou know Michael have vitiligo and it was difficult for him to manage this disease as it progresses, I do not share your opinion it is more lighter over the years. We are not experts to talk about this. there are things we do not know
 
I think that's a bit far-fetched. His lips didn't look damaged to me and no amount of make-up could cover that up. My guess is that the lip colouring appears to change the shape of his lips because it marks the contours more clearly (the colouring is a bit darker than his natural lip colour). I know that my lips look very different when I wear lipstick, even if I stay "between the lines" so to speak. Just like mascara can change the appearance of your eyes' shape even when you just apply it on your lashes. You don't need fake lashes for that, just the slightly different colour and accentuation of the mascara is enough.

If you notice, from 1992 until around 2005-06 Michael's lips looked much thinner but in 2007 he had them as thick as they used to be in his early adult years. That's the reason I was guessing such thing, I never assured anything regarding his lips or his nose falling off, I just said there are cases of people with part of their noses and lips missing because lupus destroyed the tissue. The truth is that we will never fully know the extent of how his autoimmune diseases affected him but without a doubt were a factor of the changes he dealt with.
 
Back
Top