Latest on MJJC

Did MJ lie about the amount of surgery he had?

wendijane said:
This is gonna turn into a " curls for mah gurls" thread now isnt it :love:

main-qimg-21405799c84d8e24154a1d20c3ff4b2a
Click to expand...

Nice pic!
 
mysterygirl7 said:
What kind of DISRESPECTFUL topic is this????
Click to expand...

A topic from three years ago, that someone has revived. Usually when a person poses a question like this, they're already signalling what they think about it, yeah?

To answer the question, I don't think he lied. I think he believed that it shouldn't be important to anyone other than himself and he didn't really want to talk about it - in the way that he didn't want to talk about any of his private health or medical issues. I think he did only have surgery on his nose and chin. Anything else was not surgery IMO, but instead procedures (there's a difference) and they were mostly to correct damage, scarring and other problems caused by his discoid lupus. I agree with other members who have said it wasn't anyone else's business.....the fascination of the media and the general public, etc., about this part of MJ's life is so strange, to me.
 
I don't see what's wrong with this topic. Jackson's looks and image are a huge part of him - intentionally so.

Discussing his cosmetic alterations seems to be fair, to me. Not to be done disrespectfully, of course.
 
From what I know - a rhinoplasty takes 2-3 years before it can be deemed a success. The nose/tissue can collapse or have issues during that 2-3 year period. From what I read, Jackson's Bad-era rhinoplasty eventually had this happen and anything after this was trying to correct that rhinoplasty.

His lips, chin and cheekbones did change. But look at his siblings - they all had cheekbones appear prominently the older they got.

And his lighter skin tone really changes how you read his face. If his pigment stayed dark...he wouldn't have looked that much different.

Look at the part in the YouTube clip for "Ghosts" where he cracks the skull off and his hair is up with his head down - it looks like Thriller-era Michael just emerged.
 
if you count botox and fillers as surgeries then everyone in Hollywood is in the same boat as him... I actually think these and the lip & eye tats made the biggest difference in his appearance. he was always gorgeous though so whooo cares ;) his body his choices
 
issabreakofdawn;4280738 said:
I saw a video when he briefly brought back the curls in 2002, he looked like a HIStory/Dangerous MJ.
Click to expand...

That is because in 2002 Michael Jackson had to perform on stage (American Bandstand, and Live At The Apollo Theater), so he brought his curls back around that time for those two events.

He knew that his curls have been one of his on-stage trademarks, especially for his female fans who used to like seeing him perform with those curls.

The same thing was going to do with his ‘This Is It’ shows (as evidenced also from his ‘Curls For My Girls’ T-shirt that he was wearing during the rehearsals).

DangerUs'91;4280783 said:
From what I know - a rhinoplasty takes 2-3 years before it can be deemed a success. The nose/tissue can collapse or have issues during that 2-3 year period. From what I read, Jackson's Bad-era rhinoplasty eventually had this happen and anything after this was trying to correct that rhinoplasty.

His lips, chin and cheekbones did change. But look at his siblings - they all had cheekbones appear prominently the older they got.
Click to expand...

From the BAD era onwards, many of his facial plastic surgeries (including the nose-related ones) were purely cosmetic and come down to his vanity about a perfect facial image.

Especially since 1988, when Michael Jackson was drastically increasing the number of his cosmetic plastic facial surgeries because he wanted to look as perfect as humanly possible in the paintings that the American painter David Nordahl was drawing for him.

And as he was getting older, Michael Jackson wanted to have thin lips, thin chin and not prominent cheekbones (through cosmetic plastic surgeries) also because he wanted to physically have a child-like facial image, and to look like Peter Pan who was one of his favourite fictional characters.
 
I don´t know if he lied but that doesn´t matter to me. It was his life and his body and he was a grown man. If he lied or not who cares? Like he said in Moonwalk: "What does my face have to do with my music?"
 
It doesn't really matter. He had every right to lie about it if he wanted to. He didn't have to tell about his health or medical issues.
 
mj_frenzy said:
And as he was getting older, Michael Jackson wanted to have thin lips, thin chin and not prominent cheekbones (through cosmetic plastic surgeries) also because he wanted to physically have a child-like facial image, and to look like Peter Pan who was one of his favourite fictional characters.
Click to expand...

Please stop
 
ScreenOrigami;4280806 said:
I really wish that everyone would read Manu’s thread before they weigh in on this topic:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1194931462098898949.html

Also, can we please stop suggesting – as the title of this thread does – that MJ was a notorious liar? It’s sad to see how much the media narrative has influenced even some of his fans.

AAP0XGj.jpg
Click to expand...


The Michael from 2001 would not have blended in with the above picture. I spent years growing up and fighting Mjs corner over the surgery debate and it would deeply effect me when anyone said anything I deemed as negative. With age comes reflection and to be able to look at things subjectively. As LMP said in the 1995 interview, Michael is an artist, and he can sculpt his face as much as he chooses. MJ loved the mystery - unfortunately later in life it all caught up with him. Michael will always be for me the most amazing artist, and incredible human being. Discussion over surgery is not a bad thing at all. It was part of him.
 
threatened2020;4280818 said:
Discussion over surgery is not a bad thing at all. It was part of him.
Click to expand...

Except that he was upset that people wouldn’t stop discussing it.

I’m leaving this conversation now, as my only reason to post here was to link to Manu’s excellent thread. I hope many people will read it and reflect on it. :)
 
ScreenOrigami;4280806 said:
I really wish that everyone would read Manu’s thread before they weigh in on this topic:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1194931462098898949.html

Also, can we please stop suggesting – as the title of this thread does – that MJ was a notorious liar? It’s sad to see how much the media narrative has influenced even some of his fans.

AAP0XGj.jpg
Click to expand...

Beautiful thread! I agree with everything she said. Thanks for sharing!
 
NO! He said he had surgery on TWO things- his nose and chin. That’s the truth. The question was not about how many TIMES he had procedures on those TWO things. The media exaggerated what he said. It seems some fans can’t decipher the actual question that was asked and how he answered it.
 
analogue;4156189 said:
This is from 1995, and he looks closer to Thriller era MJ here. Vitilgo being the biggest change of course.
tumblr_lbpnkhr9Dp1qc1ap3.jpg


The amount of surgeries people say he had has been greatly exaggerated. I won't deny that MJ had sugery, but I don't believe he was some crazy plastic surgery addict like the media says.
Click to expand...

I agree that the media exaggerated Michael’s surgeries. They also exaggerated what he said when Oprah asked him how many surgeries he had. He said he had only had surgery on TWO things- his nose and chin. That was the TRUTH! He also said that he never had surgery on his eyes, lips, or cheeks. “ THEY go too far when THEY claim these things.” THEY are the media. It seems some fans have been bamboozled into believing that Michael lied. He told the truth about the TWO things that he had surgery on-his NOSE and CHIN. He also told the truth about the claim that he bleached his skin. He said he had a “skin condition” (vitiliogo) that took the pigment from his skin.
You could tell he was hurting when he explained this to that snake Oprah. Btw, it is not our damn business or anyone else’s business about Michael’s medical conditions. How would we like to discuss OUR medical conditions for the WHOLE WORLD to hear?

Again, NO Michael did NOT lie about the TWO things that he had surgery on- nose and chin. That was the question and he answered it truthfully. She didn’t ask him how many TIMES he had surgery.
 
I am not criticizing him on the subject matter of his plastic surgeries on his face, but some facts need to be stated about that:

Michael Jackson was not totally honest about his plastic surgeries on his face.

He did not tell the truth, for example, about his first nose job when he said that he fell (while rehearsing and dancing) and he broke it in 1979, so he had to fix it through several rhinoplasty operations in the following period.

Seth Riggs set the record straight some years ago when he revealed that the real reason for those several rhinoplasty operations was just because Michael Jackson did them for aesthetic reasons (in other words, he wanted a thinner nose as he was growing older).

Additionally, Dr. Steven Hoefflin, who was his personal plastic surgeon for a long period, once revealed that Michael Jackson did more on his face (in terms of the changes) than he recommended to him.

This means that Michael Jackson, when he was asked publicly about it, he used to give a lower number of his cosmetic plastic surgeries on his face and apparently also about the exact facial areas that underwent such surgeries.

Also, there are Bob Jones’ revelations who said that Michael Jackson wanted with the release of each brand new studio album to present also a brand new face.

Bob Jones’ revelations clearly imply that a lot of consecutive cosmetic plastic surgeries on Michael Jackson’s face were because of just aesthetic reasons, rather than due to a certain medical necessity.
 
mj_frenzy;4280867 said:
I am not criticizing him on the subject matter of his plastic surgeries on his face, but some facts need to be stated about that:

Michael Jackson was not totally honest about his plastic surgeries on his face.

He did not tell the truth, for example, about his first nose job when he said that he fell (while rehearsing and dancing) and he broke it in 1979, so he had to fix it through several rhinoplasty operations in the following period.

Seth Riggs set the record straight some years ago when he revealed that the real reason for those several rhinoplasty operations was just because Michael Jackson did them for aesthetic reasons (in other words, he wanted a thinner nose as he was growing older).

Additionally, Dr. Steven Hoefflin, who was his personal plastic surgeon for a long period, once revealed that Michael Jackson did more on his face (in terms of the changes) than he recommended to him.

This means that Michael Jackson, when he was asked publicly about it, he used to give a lower number of his cosmetic plastic surgeries on his face and apparently also about the exact facial areas that underwent such surgeries.

Also, there are Bob Jones’ revelations who said that Michael Jackson wanted with the release of each brand new studio album to present also a brand new face.

Bob Jones’ revelations clearly imply that a lot of consecutive cosmetic plastic surgeries on Michael Jackson’s face were because of just aesthetic reasons, rather than due to a certain medical necessity.
Click to expand...

Firstly, Seth Riggs only began coaching Michael in 1982, so I'm not sure that he'd be privy to what Michael's medical history was, from three years earlier. Furthermore, Michael's brothers have confirmed that he broke his nose in a stage fall in the late seventies.

Secondly, I would not trust a single "revelation" coming from back-stabbing Bob Jones in his book about Michael Jackson, which he co-wrote with another back-stabber, Stacy Brown. Just the synopsis, alone, gives us an insight into where that man is coming from, on the subject of MJ.

And I quote:

"is Jackson a confused person who got too much fame, too soon....is he a cold and calculating villain who will stop at nothing to have his bizarre appetites satisfied? Bob Jones is the one person with this unique inside view of Michael Jackson's world. To a certain degree, Bob Jones CREATED Michael Jackson. He created his image. For example, Bob Jones created Michael Jackson's famous nickname "The King of Pop."

Bob Jones was supposed to have been Michael's PR manager for 34 years....well....he did a crap job of that, didn't he? Incidentally, I'm fairly sure that he hung MJ out to dry in a Channel 4 documentary years ago, where he talked about Michael and Jordan Chandler being in a hotel room together, etc., etc.....intimating that some improprieties had occurred.

Thirdly, Dr Hoefflin is widely believed to have been the one to introduce Michael to the idea of using propofol to help him deal with insomnia when touring (specifically on the Dangerous Tour). It's interesting to note that he obviously breached doctor-patient confidentiality in revealing anything at all about Michael's choices and his history, in terms of cosmetic or corrective surgery; all of which causes me to question his integrity and trustworthiness, overall.

In conclusion, I choose to believe Michael himself, over any of these people.
 
Last edited:
Mikky Dee;4280868 said:
I choose to believe MIchael himself over any of these people.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this! I can’t believe how many people even on this fan forum choose to believe random “revelations” over Michael’s own words.
 
somewhereinthedark;4280859 said:
I agree that the media exaggerated Michael’s surgeries. They also exaggerated what he said when Oprah asked him how many surgeries he had. He said he had only had surgery on TWO things- his nose and chin. That was the TRUTH! He also said that he never had surgery on his eyes, lips, or cheeks. “ THEY go too far when THEY claim these things.” THEY are the media. It seems some fans have been bamboozled into believing that Michael lied. He told the truth about the TWO things that he had surgery on-his NOSE and CHIN. He also told the truth about the claim that he bleached his skin. He said he had a “skin condition” (vitiliogo) that took the pigment from his skin.
You could tell he was hurting when he explained this to that snake Oprah. Btw, it is not our damn business or anyone else’s business about Michael’s medical conditions. How would we like to discuss OUR medical conditions for the WHOLE WORLD to hear?

Again, NO Michael did NOT lie about the TWO things that he had surgery on- nose and chin. That was the question and he answered it truthfully. She didn’t ask him how many TIMES he had surgery.
Click to expand...

I'm not denying in any way that Michael might have had surgery only on his nose and chin however, what you said about Michael's answer is not true.
Oprah asked Michael how much plastic surgery he has had and he answered: ''very little....you can count it on two fingers''.
He never said that he only had surgery on his nose and chin.
 
Why would a vocal coach have any idea about his colleague's medical history?!
 
mj_frenzy;4280867 said:
Also, there are Bob Jones’ revelations who said that Michael Jackson wanted with the release of each brand new studio album to present also a brand new face.
Click to expand...

:doh:
Image. He wanted a new image with every new album. You can call that a new "face". But that's not a literal meaning, ffs.

I like talking about all things Michael, even his surgeries. But come on, this is ridiculous. He had a horrible skin condition, was pressured to look perfect and was self conscious about his looks. Those are facts. Anything else is fanatical speculation and nonsense.
 
ScreenOrigami;4280806 said:
I really wish that everyone would read Manu’s thread before they weigh in on this topic:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1194931462098898949.html

Also, can we please stop suggesting – as the title of this thread does – that MJ was a notorious liar? It’s sad to see how much the media narrative has influenced even some of his fans.

AAP0XGj.jpg
Click to expand...

Thank You for the link, I've never seen that interview with Geraldo Rivera before and it's always nice to see when interviewer is respectful for a change and doesn't attack Michael at every chance. Also, I wholeheartedly agree, I don't care about the number of surgeries he had, it's none of my business and I'd rather go with what MJ said that what media with a sinister agenda would want people to believe.
 
ScreenOrigami;4280869 said:
Thanks for this! I can’t believe how many people even on this fan forum choose to believe random “revelations” over Michael’s own words.
Click to expand...

I ditto with this! some fans are behaving just like the media and it is appalling and down right rude.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top