[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I did.



I still don't see how the heck he could conclude that even with the liberal pleading standard with those allegations they would meet the requirements.

What he said was still illogical because reasonable steps to prevent abuse couldn't have been made by a company that was controlled by the alleged perpetrator not to mention
the 1993 case in no way meant that the companies knew or had reason to know or otherwise were on notice that MJ committed a sexual crime especially not against Robson since all three of them were adamant that MJ was innocent.

Please try to understand that here we are not talking about a verdict. This does not mean that the Judge concluded anything or ignored anything about those issues. This just means an "even if" scenario. Like Ivy said it seems the Judge just did not look into that very deeply yet, because he first needs a cause of action even to go forward and think more deeply about those other issues and look into precedents and Supreme Court interpretations etc. Of course he cannot ignore the Supreme Court's interpretation.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

?????

It's a black thing

 

[castor]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Please try to understand that here we are not talking about a verdict. This does not mean that the Judge concluded anything or ignored anything about those issues. This just means an "even if" scenario. Like Ivy said it seems the Judge just did not look into that very deeply yet, because he first needs a cause of action even to go forward and think more deeply about those other issues and look into precedents and Supreme Court interpretations etc. Of course he cannot ignore the Supreme Court's interpretation.

Well, I hope that's true although I would have thrown out the case simply because even if they state a cause of action
that wouldn't change the fact that the companies didn't have control over MJ.

Something else.
I just read a motion about Charlie Michaels and her claim that Joy Robson told her MJ tried to separate her son from her and she cried on Mother's Day because she didn't see Wade all day.

If MJ indeed tried something like that why in the world did she bring Wade back to MJ over and over again??
And if he wanted to separate Wade from her what was she doing in MJ's bedroom?
And what exactly prevented Wade himself from simply walking away and tell her that he doesn't want to see MJ ever again?

The same strange phenomenon occurred to Chandler. Noone forced him to go to Neverland he did it because he wanted to be there
on the weekends instead of visiting his father. I guess he liked being molested.

 

[SarahJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm listening to an interview that Joy gave to Infinite Dance Cast back in July 2011 that most people no doubt are aware of, but the male interviewer mentions taking a dance class from WR when he was 15 and that WR tried to hit on his girlfriend and the woman interviewer says how that sounds like Wade. Which makes it a year from the molestation, if I'm not wrong. Well good to know he was doing so well, all things considered (sarcasm intended). Starts at about 00.14.42
http://infinitedancecast.com/?p=193

 

[MJresearcher]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I was glad to see Taj's tweet, he must feel very frustrated since there's not much that can be done to stop these people from doing what they do. At least he says something, it's more than what some of MJ's other relatives do.

 

[castor]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm listening to an interview that Joy gave to Infinite Dance Cast back in July 2011 that most people no doubt are aware of, but the male interviewer mentions taking a dance class from WR when he was 15 and that WR tried to hit on his girlfriend and the woman interviewer says how that sounds like Wade. Which makes it a year from the molestation, if I'm not wrong. Well good to know he was doing so well, all things considered (sarcasm intended). Starts at about 00.14.42
http://infinitedancecast.com/?p=193

And remember, he enjoyed having sex with MJ! Interestingly he was not interested in sex with any other male after that. :bugeyed

 

[Princessyuko]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This makes me sick! He denied it in court when he testified and now all of a sudden file a lawsuit. This calls for Michael's song,"Leave Me Alone" play here! You're innocent Michael!

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm listening to an interview that Joy gave to Infinite Dance Cast back in July 2011 that most people no doubt are aware of, but the male interviewer mentions taking a dance class from WR when he was 15 and that WR tried to hit on his girlfriend and the woman interviewer says how that sounds like Wade. Which makes it a year from the molestation, if I'm not wrong. Well good to know he was doing so well, all things considered (sarcasm intended). Starts at about 00.14.42
http://infinitedancecast.com/?p=193

That's something I noted too when I heard that interview. (Wasn't it Joy who said "that sounds like Wade"? And she even adds: "I hate to say it but I think Wade might have won that one." - meaning the beef over the girlfriend.) So you have this guy who says he was regularly molested and raped between the ages of 7 and 14 by another male, he claims he enjoyed it, moreover "looking forward to it" (gosh, at this rate Wade is soon gonna be a NAMBLA poster boy) and it was the normal and loving thing in his mind, yet that somehow did not affect his sex life otherwise. He did not became gay. He did not became sexually confused. He did not became a pedophile. Rather he goes chasing girls like any heterosexual teenage boy without any sign of sexual confusion. And didn't he date Michael's niece Brandi at one point?

And BTW, not one of these accusers of Michael turned out to be sexually confused peoeple or gay or a pedo. Not one. Jordan was unaffected according to his uncle's book and went chasing girls. He never even needed therapy. Safechuck tries to claim in his complaint that he was sexually confused back then, but that's just a hindsight claim. His actions tell otherwise. He had a crush on Sheryl Crow and acc. to his complaint he dated some girl of his age at the time too. And he too did not become gay or a pedo growing up. So although supposedly all these boys got brainwashed by MJ into thinking that that this was loving and normal, although supposedly they all enjoyed it, although supposedly they all held these beliefs until recent therapy, somehow that did not materialize in their own romantic and sexual lives in any way. They enjoyed sex with another male until the age of 14 and even "looked forward to it", yet they did not search out such encounters later. Yeah, right. Not saying that every abused child becomes gay or a pedo, of course not. (Nor someone being gay means he was abused as a child.) But with them saying they enjoyed it and thought it was normal and loving and they were looking forward to it - well, that is not a consistent story at all. Most abused kids of course do not turn out to be gay or a pedo, but most abused kids also do not claim that they liked being raped. The "I was ashamed because it felt good" stories are usually about things like masturbation, not things that Robson claims (and apparently Safechuck too claims some sort of penetration, only not with genitals).

ETA: Some other aspects of that interview: Joy said when they came from Australia she thought they would be superstars within a year "but 8 years later we were still trying to pay rent". And "We didn't work with him (MJ) a lot. Wade did three music videos." "Oh, they don't pay a lot. It doesn't really pay the rent." She says that MJ lives in a bubble, a "different reality" so it had to be her who went out looking for agents and jobs for Wade. "I did everything." Once again, it is clear that other than giving them a job so that they can get green cards and move to the US, it does not seem like Michael was all that involved in Wade's career and not a constant presence at all. Also: Wade decided at the age of 10 he didn't want to be a dancer but a choreographer because he did not like the way dancers were paid. So apparently a very financially conscious person since an early childhood.

"My kids worked every weekend. My kids worked every vacation. They had birthday parties backstage. No regrets." - yet Wade wants to make up some lie about Michael Jackson to explain his mental problems and burnout and breakdowns? Okay.

 

[SarahJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Sure didn't affect (or effect, I can never keep that straight) his life at all did it? And he was teaching his own classes at 12 (in his claims he was still being abused at that point) and taking on a professional choreographer's role at 16. Amazing how he could stay so focused isn't it?
I thought it sounded like the interviewer, but you may be right about it being Joy. Have to say I was wasn't paying that much attention at that point, I was more amazed at what they were saying.:busted: Sure wasn't shy or inhibited in any way was he? And from what Joy said it wasn't the first time.

I like the bit where Michael said Joy was too pretty a name for her, than covers by saying Joey sounded more funky.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Being vegetarian hepls him heal from abuse? If only it were that easy. ****ing asshole

I wish true victims could ban together and sue them. They make a mockery of their genuine suffering.

 

[ILoveHIStory]

Probably... you have read this, but we non-Americans can really wonder how that is possible in the US..., and we are discussing WRs case... if this...
Mila Kunis being sued for allegedly 'stealing' a chicken as a child
Key points:
* Mila Kunis is being sued for allegedly stealing a chicken from a childhood friend,
* Karo claims she could not get over the loss and became an “emotional wreck,” who required therapy to get over Doggie’s disappearance.
* Karo is seeking damages to the tune of $5,000 to cover her therapy costs and compensation for the emotional trauma of losing a chicken as a young child.

BINGO.... :2cents::tease: :fencing :fortuneteller: :bs

 

[SarahJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So true. And it's been posted by news organizations far more times than WR's, which has had next to no attention (not that I'm complaining mind you). So far on Google news the chicken caper has 322 posts, including Fox News, Huffington Post and USA today, including, unfortunately some from my own country. Such is the state of the news media today.:scratch:

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So true. And it's been posted by news organizations far more times than WR's, which has had next to no attention (not that I'm complaining mind you). So far on Google news the chicken caper has 322 posts, including Fox News, Huffington Post and USA today, including, unfortunately some from my own country. Such is the state of the news media today.:scratch:

:doh: :rollin:

http://[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/f0U8VXZrp][/URL]

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Regarding media attention. Have you guys noticed that on both occasions when the Robson camp and their supporters in the media managed to stir some bigger attention for the case, it never really had to do with Robson and Safechuck's allegations? The two occasions when there was a bigger media storm in connection with this were the 2013 FBI files claim and Stacy Brown's recent article. Those are the articles which went viral, it was never something about Robson or Safechuck himself. It is very telling that the anti-MJ part of the media has to operate with blatant lies and these totally untrue claims about never seen, never existed phantom victims, to try to sway public opinion in favour of Robson/Safechuck, rather than by focusing on their own claims and case.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Regarding media attention. Have you guys noticed that on both occasions when the Robson camp and their supporters in the media managed to stir some bigger attention for the case, it never really had to do with Robson and Safechuck's allegations? The two occasions when there was a bigger media storm in connection with this were the 2013 FBI files claim and Stacy Brown's recent article. Those are the articles which went viral, it was never something about Robson or Safechuck himself. It is very telling that the anti-MJ part of the media has to operate with blatant lies and these totally untrue claims about never seen, never existed phantom victims, to try to sway public opinion in favour of Robson/Safechuck, rather than by focusing on their own claims and case.

I noticed that too. I feel like the media knows Wade's case is causing the majority of the public to raise their eyebrows. We talked about it before when we talked about Wade's alternatives after the case is dropped. I think people don't care for civil lawsuits especially when Wade had a chance to talk against MJ when it mattered and now he's suing after he passed away, it just doesn't look good.

 

[castor]

Probably... you have read this, but we non-Americans can really wonder how that is possible in the US..., and we are discussing WRs case... if this...
Mila Kunis being sued for allegedly 'stealing' a chicken as a child
Key points:
* Mila Kunis is being sued for allegedly stealing a chicken from a childhood friend,
* Karo claims she could not get over the loss and became an “emotional wreck,” who required therapy to get over Doggie’s disappearance.
* Karo is seeking damages to the tune of $5,000 to cover her therapy costs and compensation for the emotional trauma of losing a chicken as a young child.

BINGO.... :2cents::tease: :fencing :fortuneteller: :bs

America is the only country where anyone can sue anyone for anything that never happened.
I got abducted by UFOs it's my neighbour's fault he's liable he's liable

 

[barbee0715]

Probably... you have read this, but we non-Americans can really wonder how that is possible in the US..., and we are discussing WRs case... if this...
Mila Kunis being sued for allegedly 'stealing' a chicken as a child
Key points:
* Mila Kunis is being sued for allegedly stealing a chicken from a childhood friend,
* Karo claims she could not get over the loss and became an “emotional wreck,” who required therapy to get over Doggie’s disappearance.
* Karo is seeking damages to the tune of $5,000 to cover her therapy costs and compensation for the emotional trauma of losing a chicken as a young child.

Well, as an American, I can just say that I am proud that the American Justice System is alive and well-and that our judges are so dedicated and devoted, using our taxpayer money to ponder and study these highly critical court cases, whether it be Robson, Safechuck or this obviously wounded young woman, Karo. It's important that they take days, months and YEARS to make certain justice is served, no matter if it meets the statutes or not!

Mila should really be ashamed of herself for stealing this girl's precious chicken-and Karo deserves not only the cost of the therapy but thousands more for the emotion turmoil that it caused her. I read yesterday that Mila stole the chicken when Karo was only ONE MONTH OLD-plenty of time to form an everlasting bond to the chicken.

Good for our court system!!!:hat_wave:We don't waste time on important things like civil rights violations or abuse of government power or anything like that.

PS-just reading on the news about another case where one parent is suing another for bad parenting-the crime was the mother took the child to see a Pink concert! Atrocious.

 

[SarahJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Re: Media & WR's phantom tales, you know your in trouble when a story 'bout JB getting kicked out of Coachella raises more interest than his does. Even the news postings on twitter weren't generating as much attention. I checked on one (Daily Mail) on Facebook had a mere few hundred likes while a fairly bland posting on Michael's Facebook generated a couple of thousand.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Well, I said it before and will say again, and yes, I'm heartbroken that Michael is dead-but I'm more heartbroken over the crap that he had to endure the last 15-20 years of his life. And if he were alive, this would be totally different-the media right now is just contained to a few tabloids that no one really reads anyway-Michael's mystique and aura are still so powerful, that just his name in print generates hits. And if he were alive, this story would be on every single national, mainstream news outlet all over the world every single day. The media would be milking it for all its worth-even if they know it's totally outlandish and false.

I really think that is what Robson and his little back up buddy, Safechuck, were banking on-in order to get a settlement. But it's not working this time-mainly because Michael died and the media was taken aback by the outpouring of grief and mourning over his death.

 

[castor]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I read on Topix some hater started a thread about Amy Berg who directed An Open Secret that she is the wide of Jonathan Spence.
I have no found any proof of that.

Does anyone know whether that's true or not?

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I could not care less about haters' discussions on Topix.

 

[bluemonkey100]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Idk much about American law but if the judge goes in favour of Wade suing Michael's estate, could the estate appeal this decision or does the whole thing just go to trial?

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Idk much about American law but if the judge goes in favour of Wade suing Michael's estate, could the estate appeal this decision or does the whole thing just go to trial?

yes they can appeal. anyone can appeal any decision - meaning Robson also could appeal if Judge says Robson cannot sue the Estate.

 

[Tygger]

Regarding media attention. Have you guys noticed that on both occasions when the Robson camp and their supporters in the media managed to stir some bigger attention for the case, it never really had to do with Robson and Safechuck's allegations?

The allegations of Robson/Safechuck have no value to others fans and non-fans including media outlets. I believe the claims are presumed fabrications to everyone minus the judge who is not allowed to presume such.

The only interest for non-tabloid media is if these claims will be approved because that is where the precedent lies. If approved, most media outlet will cover the judge’s decision and a settlement watch will begin. If dismissed, the few tabloid outlets that continued to cover this doomed venture after Robson’s Today interview will report such to the small audience expressing interest.

This doomed venture never had anything to do with Michael; only the monies in his estate. If Robson/Safechuck will be allowed the opportunity to access those monies then, media coverage will multiply.

It seems to me the people you're arguing with here are very capable of discussing the Chandler case in other threads so it's not as touchy for them as you wish it was, because then it would mean we're just a group of cry babies that can't handle facts.

I came to this subforum and noticed another thread locked and I was reminded of your statement. I cannot speak to the other threads you are referring to in your statement. However; it is quite disappointing how a particular discussion that was actually based on facts and not Chandlers' hypothetical scenarios has been discontinued. Certain discussions cannot be handled.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I came to this subforum and noticed another thread locked and I was reminded of your statement. I cannot speak to the other threads you are referring to in your statement. However; it is quite disappointing how a particular discussion that was actually based on facts and not Chandlers' hypothetical scenarios has been discontinued. Certain discussions cannot be handled.

first of all it's against the rules to discuss moderation decisions on threads, if you have any concerns about anything on this section contact me privately, if not satisfied with my response/action then take it to karom. Secondly that thread can be handled, one single user was the problem. That thread had became off topic, everyone agreed it was off topic, thread was cleaned and one single member kept reposting the deleted messages over and over. After the third time cleaning it was closed for the time being. I planned to reopen the thread after parties were calmed down and/or mod team had a chance to evaluate the member and the situation and come to a decision about course of action. It takes time. So no, people here can handle discussions as long as one person doesn't destroy it for everyone.

AND more importantly let's keep this thread focused on the topic at hand - especially at this significant time

 

[Tygger]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ivy, in my view, this is not a "significant time." It is only a potential claim against the estate like others. I do not see any reason for the judge to allow these claims. It is more difficult for the judge to explain how those claims are acceptable than not.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ivy, in my view, this is not a "significant time." It is only a potential claim against the estate like others. I do not see any reason for the judge to allow these claims. It is more difficult for the judge to explain how those claims are acceptable than not.

I think you know that all of us agree with you and think judge will reject the claim. However I'll disagree that this is only a potential claim like others. All other claims against Estate were "you owe me money" and this has a lot more terrible accusations hence nothing like the others. As for the time, you know how we are waiting for the decision and that's a nervous wait for many. So I would appreciate if this time & issue doesn't get derailed with side topics about other threads. Thank you.

 

[Tygger]

All other claims against Estate were "you owe me money" and this has a lot more terrible accusations hence nothing like the others.

Ivy, I maintain it is only a potential claim; it has to be approved. If approved, it will be a precedent and then it will have significance for that reason. The accusations - again, presumed fabrications by most if not all minus the judge – have no true value. That is why media outlets minus tabloids do not cover it.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I understand that but I believe Estate's point is exactly why the judge will grant the summary judgment and dismiss the case. If this is allowed this will be an unbelievable precedent and there would be nothing to stop anyone to sue any estate decades later a person is deceased.

for a totally made up scenario - assume that someone hangs out with an unrelated kid one day before they die. the kid grows up to be 30-36 yrs old, gets married, have a kid, have an emotional breakdown and "realizes" that he was abused. if this precedent is allowed, that kid can file a sexual abuse claim 30+ yrs after the person has died. it doesn't make sense, this shouldn't be allowed.

I'm confident that the judge will allow the summary judgment as he doesn't have discretion to overturn statutory timelimits which are clearly breached.
But i don't get the arguement above about this being an unbelievable precedent,and posts about elvis and marylyn monroe being at risk or what the estate lawyer was trying to argue with the king henry example (which actually didn't make any sense). The judge is a probate judge and is just ruling on a probate code so he's only ruling about estates which are still in probate. Most estates are done and dusted in a few years, what percentage are still open decades later? The only reason wade and jimmy can sue is because technically mj's assets haven't been distributed finally to ppb and gone into their trust. But once that happens, these claims can't continue.

 

[Bubs]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Isn't already time for judge to give the ruling?