Latest on MJJC

Does MJ's lack of respect from serious music critics/rock press/music snobs bother you?

KOPV said:
its not the type of music where the bias against michael came... its the fact he was black and got bigger than life... he got bigger than he was "supposed" to
Click to expand...

I did not hear the people, the music world, or the press say this during the very apex of his career with Thriller......not once
 
All in all I think that before ANY person complains about what MJ did or didn't do for the black community (and he did a HECK of a lot for the black community, probably more then any other black celebrity has done.) that they need to look at the man/woman in the mirror and ask THEMSELVES what they've done for the black community.
Don't throw stones in a glass house, especially when you shouldn't throw stones in the first place.
 
Last edited:
Pink Diamond Princess said:
All in all I think that before ANY person complains about what MJ did or didn't do for the black community (and he did a HECK of a lot for the black community, probably more then any other black celebrity has done.) that they need to look at the man/woman in the mirror and ask THEMSELVES what they've done for the black community.
Don't throw stones in a glass house, especially when you shouldn't throw stones in the first place.
Click to expand...

This problem is bigger than one individual

Im questioning the system of things that is the root of the problem that's producing detrimental results

Because if that system did not exist, Michael Jackson would still be present today
 
Bringing Brighter Days said:
This problem is bigger than one individual

Im questioning the system of things that is the root of the problem that's producing detrimental results

Because if that system did not exist, Michael Jackson would still be present today
Click to expand...

I hear you loud and clear.

I'm sure there are many people that to this day can't stand the fact that MJ a black person is simply the BEST entertainer to EVER do it and held/holds so much power.

I also believe that's part of the reason why MJ above all other black entertainers was/is constantly accused of wanting to be white.
It has happened and sadly will continue to happen to other black celebs but it hasn't happened to anyone as bad as it has to MJ.
I believe that it was done to send the message that no matter how successful you are that you'd still be better if you were white because hey, if MJ the most successful black entertainer to ever walk this earth wanted to be white why shouldn't you?

This way of thinking could be traced as far back as slavery days when being lighter meant you'd might be able to escape picking cotton to work in masters house, but for my fingers sake I won't go into all of that.

However, I don't think that MJ would still be here today if that system wasn't in place, because all of hate MJ received wasn't from the white media.
You have just as many black people that spread the rumor that MJ was a self hater, and laugh at his appearance as any other race (and they're stupid because MJ always looked better then good).
Infact when the media picked up the "Michael is a self hater campaign" all they had to do was play on negative feelings that were already there.

When a higher value was placed on the lighter/mulatto slave the field slave became angry, yet they couldn't attack master, so hatred between shades was born amongst the slaves, but one must ask themselves what did the house slave do to deserve the hate other then to exist as they were?

Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Bringing Brighter Days said:
I did not hear the people, the music world, or the press say this during the very apex of his career with Thriller......not once
Click to expand...
Your memory must be very different than mine. Although, granted, I noticed the backlash REALLY started getting bad around mid 1985-after We Are the World, the 86 Grammys, Captain EO-and of course, the purchase of the ATV catalog.

But that Backlash actually started with the Victory Tour-the tour that everybody wanted to see because of Thriller and Motown 25. Right off the bat, that four ticket/money order deal got major backlash with the press because it made it seem that only the white middle class would have the money to see those shows, and therefore, leave the poorer, urban black community in the dirt-the ones that had supported him from childhood. Black promoters were complaining to the press that the Jacksons didn't even give them the opportunity to do the shows-Jesse Jackson was there to talk to Michael and the Jacksons about employing more black people in their crew and use black promoters, and black radio people locally.

The press was having an absolute field day with this-and ALL the backlash went on Michael-
because he was the megawatt superstar of the group-no one else got this backlash-not the brothers, not Katherine and Joseph (also promoters of the tour), not Don King. And the sad thing is it wasn't Michael's idea at all to do it this way, much less tour at all. He knew that people were coming because of him, and he should go on a solo tour or try to get into film, but he didn't. He did that last hurrah for his mom, dad and brothers, so they could make money and be set before he said goodbye.

Because of the horrible publicity (and because he was making millions on his own through Thriller) he announced that his entire share of the tour was going to Charity. He denounced the money order system. They gave away tons of tickets for each and every show to disadvantaged or sick children.

Even that didn't help-after that, the press wrote story after story about discord within the family-separate cars, separate planes, separate hotels, they weren't speaking, this whole tight warm family thing was strictly show and they all hated each other or were insanely jealous. If there was ever a reason for Michael to become reclusive and resentful of the press, it was then. Those stories linger today and have affected the way people feel about Michael and his family, even now.

No, that backlash started during Thriller. It just got way worse later.
 
Last edited:
barbee0715 said:
Your memory must be very different than mine. Although, granted, I noticed the backlash REALLY started getting bad around 1986-after We Are the World, the Grammys, Captain EO-and of course, the purchase of the ATV catalog.

But that Backlash actually started with the Victory Tour-the tour that everybody wanted to see because of Thriller and Motown 25. Right off the bat, that four ticket/money order deal got major backlash with the press because it made it seem that only the white middle class would have the money to see those shows, and therefore, leave the poorer, urban black community in the dirt-the ones that had supported him from childhood. Black promoters were complaining to the press that the Jacksons didn't even give them the opportunity to do the shows-Jesse Jackson was there to talk to Michael and the Jacksons about employing more black people in their crew and use black promoters, and black radio people locally.

The press was having an absolute field day with this-and ALL the backlash went on Michael-
because he was the megawatt superstar of the group-no one else got this backlash-not the brothers, not Katherine and Joseph (also promoters of the tour), not Don King. And the sad thing is it wasn't Michael's idea at all to do it this way, much less tour at all. He knew that people were coming because of him, and he should go on a solo tour or try to get into film, but he didn't. He did that last hurrah for his mom, dad and brothers, so they could make money and be set before he said goodbye.

Because of the horrible publicity (and because he was making millions on his own through Thriller) he announced that his entire share of the tour was going to Charity. He denounced the money order system. They gave away tons of tickets for each and every show to disadvantaged or sick children.

Even that didn't help-after that, the press wrote story after story about discord within the family-separate cars, separate planes, separate hotels, they weren't speaking, this whole tight warm family thing was strictly show and they all hated each other or were insanely jealous. If there was ever a reason for Michael to become reclusive and resentful of the press, it was then. Those stories linger today and have affected the way people feel about Michael and his family, even now.

No, that backlash started during Thriller. It just got way worse later.
Click to expand...



all of that happened after Thriller completed the heart of its run........

I'm referring to the period from the album's release up until the premiered and run of the Thriller video

I never felt the Victory Tour should have taken place, because the environment was leading to a situation where balance was going to be lost

plus it was not a better show than the Triumph Tour

from late 1982 through the beginning of 84, particularly leading up to the Grammy's

there was no negative criticism being directed towards Michael Jackson

only so called criticism was if MJ was able to top Off The Wall...
 
Last edited:
This may be a bit off topic, but I bet MJ had some haters that simply disliked the racial unity he garnered (which is sad).
MJ always united, not divided, which is something I love about MJ. :)
 
Last edited:
and why would they say this? it would be 100% stupid if the music industry would blantintly say "because hes black"..

it would be business suicide to say it.out loud...
 
Michael didnt get horrible press during Thriller era because the impact of that album couldnt be denied, not because they loked him so much. There was no way for them to go in on him and be taken seriously by the public.

By the time he bought that catalogue, it was a whole different story, because now he was making moves black folks werent supposed to make. That kind of ownership scares the elite. Thats when the crazy stuff started to come.
 
they liked him as far as he was "in his place" as soon as he became a threat to white music legacy.. thats when they made sure they built walls and a roof around him... then when he broke them down, they tried looking away and thats when tried bringing him down..
 
OffTheWall22;4150646 said:
Michael didnt get horrible press during Thriller era because the impact of that album couldnt be denied, not because they loked him so much. There was no way for them to go in on him and be taken seriously by the public.

By the time he bought that catalogue, it was a whole different story, because now he was making moves black folks werent supposed to make. That kind of ownership scares the elite. Thats when the crazy stuff started to come.
Click to expand...

That crazy stuff had started to come out before MJ bought the ATV Music Catalogue in 1985.

Those unfavorable comments aimed directly at him (& mostly emanated from the press) were so bitter to the point where he was made to issue a statement in September (1984) while he was still performing with his brothers:

“I have decided to make this statement based on the injustice on these allegations and the far-reaching trauma those who feel close to me are suffering… To this end, and I do mean END: No, I’ve never taken hormones to maintain my high voice! No, I’ve never had my cheekbones altered in any way! No, I’ve never had cosmetic surgery on my eyes!... Any statements to the contrary are simply untrue. I have advised my attorneys of my willingness to institute legal action and subsequently prosecute all guilty to the fullest extent of the law…”

His manager at that time (Frank Dileo) read that statement to the press/public.
 
mj_frenzy;4150655 said:
That crazy stuff had started to come out before MJ bought the ATV Music Catalogue in 1985.

Those unfavorable comments aimed directly at him (& mostly emanated from the press) were so bitter to the point where he was made to issue a statement in September (1984) while he was still performing with his brothers:

“I have decided to make this statement based on the injustice on these allegations and the far-reaching trauma those who feel close to me are suffering… To this end, and I do mean END: No, I’ve never taken hormones to maintain my high voice! No, I’ve never had my cheekbones altered in any way! No, I’ve never had cosmetic surgery on my eyes!... Any statements to the contrary are simply untrue. I have advised my attorneys of my willingness to institute legal action and subsequently prosecute all guilty to the fullest extent of the law…”

His manager at that time (Frank Dileo) read that statement to the press/public.
Click to expand...
Absolutely-exactly as I sad in my post-the backlash started immediately from all sides with the start of the Victory Tour. From the minute Thriller dropped thru the Grammys, everything was great. Then bam. Bad press for sticking it to the poor original fans for high ticket prices. Speculation by the press on his voice, sexuality, face.
Hateful press about animosity in the family.
It was written constantly and people were believing it. Those same stories are the basis of everything that came later and persists today.

Brighter pointed out that there was no backlash up to the point of the Thriller video, but the tour was Thriller era too.
 
Last edited:
OffTheWall22 said:
Michael didnt get horrible press during Thriller era because the impact of that album couldnt be denied, not because they loked him so much. There was no way for them to go in on him and be taken seriously by the public.

By the time he bought that catalogue, it was a whole different story, because now he was making moves black folks werent supposed to make. That kind of ownership scares the elite. Thats when the crazy stuff started to come.
Click to expand...


But it was not just the media generating conversations about Michael, but it was older fans and the public at large who conversed about him outside of any media influence

Most people didn't know he had purchased the ATV catalog until well into the next decade

This is why as a teenager, I was against the Victory because you could see the direction things were headed
 
Last edited:
barbee0715 said:
Absolutely-exactly as I sad in my post-the backlash started immediately from all sides with the start of the Victory Tour. From the minute Thriller dropped thru the Grammys, everything was great. Then bam. Bad press for sticking it to the poor original fans for high ticket prices. Speculation by the press on his voice, sexuality, face.
Hateful press about animosity in the family.
It was written constantly and people were believing it. Those same stories are the basis of everything that came later and persists today.

Brighter pointed out that there was no backlash up to the point of the Thriller video, but the tour was Thriller era too.
Click to expand...


As far as those stories about him and his family, that wasnt criticism towards him as much as it was about negative influence within the industry beginning the process of seperating him from his family in order to dictate his image

As far as the fans, there was no criticism being directed towards him, fans were emulated his dance moves and style with no end in sight
 
Psychoniff;4150658 said:
“The backlash did indeed start during the Thriller era, I posted YT video of a radio host questioning why he was so teetotal.”

Page 5:

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...itics-rock-press-music-snobs-bother-you/page5
Click to expand...

Psychoniff, this is the same Video you had posted before, which I already commented on. Here are our previous remarks on this subject matter:


Psychoniff;4139296 said:
“Back on topic. One of the reasons why rock snobs didn't take and continue to not take MJ seriously is because of his good-boy 'peter pan' image. I watched a clip on YouTube below, an I noticed that a radio host by the name of David Brudnoy had these annoyed tone in his voice about how controversial-free MJ's life was at that point (Thriller era).....”

from 3:23 to 3:51

[video=youtube;V9oYfHJj2TA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9oYfHJj2TA&index=2&list=WL[/video]


“Notice how he uses words like 'calculated' and 'con-job', as if a person like MJ couldn't actually be teetotal. It got me thinking that maybe if MJ was a chain-smoking, drug-induced bad-boy then he would have ironically gotten MORE respect from rock snobs the way the Beatles and Rolling Stones and Elvis did.”
Click to expand...


GGVVGGCC22331122;4139339 said:
“Great ‘YouTube’ clips you’ve posted, Psychoniff. You make quite a number of excellent points with them, here. There are many different people shown in them, with each person having his/her own personal point of view in regards to Michael, and attitude towards him.

Of course, the one person who absolutely qualifies as a total, complete snob* is the radio commentator from Boston, David Brudnoy. (*And, I would have loved to have used much stronger language than the word, ‘snob,’ to describe such people with their uppity attitudes, who tend to look down their noses at certain Black performers, anyway, in my view. Psychoniff, if you can come up with an even better word than ‘snob,’ one that truly expresses what we both really think of them, please post it.) His tone of voice is so doggone condescending and exasperated that he could never have imagined, for the life of him, that any people who sang ‘Pop,’ ‘Rock-and-Roll’ or ‘R&B/Soul’ music, for example, could not exist in their careers without ever getting themselves involved in some kind of trouble or another, without a history of scandal, personal problems and other severely damaging issues in their lives.

I do like that the Video showed one young man making his positive comments on Michael, immediately after the Brudnoy put-down segment calling Michael’s clean-living Early-1980’s lifestyle (such as it had been, at that point) a ‘con-job’ and ‘calculated.’ What would David Brudnoy and others like him, who all had the same negative attitude towards Michael and who held similar views of his career and lifestyle - just a brief time-period before the height of ‘Thriller’s’ unprecedented success, and shortly following it thereafter - have thought of Michael during the last 15 to more than 20 years of his life, from his post-‘BAD’ era* onwards? (*Or, should I call it the ‘pre-“Dangerous” era’? I’m not sure....) How would he have reacted to the way Michael’s life had, eventually, turned out in the ’90’s, from that time ever since then? I’d like to know what your honest, truthful answer is. It could be very interesting.”
Click to expand...

What do you think? Do you agree with my earlier views, on this? As I had suggested before, in my quoted comments, IF you would very much prefer to use far stronger language than the word “snob,” to describe the attitude that people like Mr. Brudnoy had during the Early- and Mid-1980’s towards Michael, back then (in part, because of his formerly “clean” image and lifestyle, such as it once was at that particular time), by any and every means, PLEASE feel free to use it to go on ahead and tell them off, because they rightly deserve to be told off and we should all give them a piece of our mind!!!

I surely bet that, right now, these same “snobs”* (*or, whatever name you’d like to call them - and, just go right on ahead) are having a field day, since Michael’s been gone these past several years. Same attitude from them as it probably would have been in the Early-1990’s, during the “Dangerous” era, when everything in his life seemed to go downhill for him, from that point onwards, up until he had passed. Their attitude towards him would have been that he was “no better than anyone else, after all.” And, they would have come up with other things to criticize him for.





Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
hm it's been my experience most music snobs as well as most music criticsand most music fans actually have quite a lot of respect 4 Michael Jackson
 
Honestly I could care less about people's negative opinions about Michael period. They're all completely irrelevant because I know Michael's accolades and Michael's contributions to society are still withstanding today.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top