Does MJ's lack of respect from serious music critics/rock press/music snobs bother you?

[FullLipsDotNose]

I guess part of the reason why he was so much disrespected was vitiligo. In general, people with any (skin) diseases have it harder than healthy people, especially if part of job is to show up your face.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

I did not say we were solely responsible

But we were the foundation, there is no doubt about that

Just as one can say that Michael was hurt with what was being said, that can be reciprocated because the community was feeling hurt too

And the problem aint really about who was saying what but the institution of racism that fosters race superiority that restricts people, communities, and cultures from functioning properly

A system of reinforcement that led a Lil Kim to totally give into it and contort her entire appearance


If racism was eradicated, I mean really done away with, we would never be talking about backlash, we wouldn't be calling people haters, we wouldnt be accusing people of self hate

Racism is a disease that acts on many platforms and acts as the most destructive form of activity on earth

People right now in the Caribbean, in Asia, in South America, and in Africa are altering their natural complexion as we speak to meet the beauty that has been indoctrinated in society that promotes race superiority....it is destroying people and causing a world of dissension and hostility in the proces, robbing people of their self worth and dignity

I agree with everything you've said except

Just as one can say that Michael was hurt with what was being said, that can be reciprocated because the community was feeling hurt too

What did Michael do to hurt the black community?

He donated money to multiple black charities, he always credited the black artist that influenced him, he always said he was a proud black man, he constantly spoke of his love for Africa, he let underprivileged black children into his home to show them happiness.
That's why the way some of the black community turned their backs on Michael makes NO sense to me.

You have black artist/entertainers that have done/did MUCH less for the black community then MJ but they haven't/don't get shunned like MJ (no other black artist/entertainer has really).

When it all comes down to it Michael is the most valuable artist that the black community had/has, and I as a black person am nothing but thankful to Michael for everything that he's done.

 

[DuranDuran]

He donated money to multiple black charities, he always credited the black artist that influenced him, he always said he was a proud black man, he constantly spoke of his love for Africa, he let underprivileged black children into his home to show them happiness. That's why the way some of the black community turned their backs on Michael makes NO sense to me.

But the average person doesn't follow famous people (at least the pre-internet generations didn't) like that and might not know about it. But if they see Mike in photos and TV appearences with people like Jane Fonda, Tatum O'Neal, Brooke Shield.s, Liz Taylor, Lisa Marie Presley, Sophia Loren, Madonna, etc. He also did songs with Paul McCartney, Eddie Van Halen, & Mick Jagger. So it's like to them Mike hangs around white folks, which is like I mentioned about black celebs marrying white people. I don't know if you've been around NOI and "ankh brothas", but hanging out with "The Man" is usually a no no with them. They're like the frat guy in the Fresh Prince clip. Even with the accusations, people said it was white boys, not black ones. Prince was accused of dating light skinned women. Black performers are said to use light skinned models in their music videos. Light skin/dark skin is another issue with black people. There was also a story in the media years ago that Mike held his nose when he went to Africa, which implied that he thought the people didn't smell good.

Bill Cosby donated to black colleges and it was reported during the 1980s, but many black people said the Cosby Show was unrealistic and there were no black people who really lived like that. I guess they were expecting another Good Times. That black people only lived in the inner city or ghetto and had a hard life.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

But the average person doesn't follow famous people (at least the pre-internet generations didn't) like that and might not know about it. But if they see Mike in photos and TV appearences with people like Jane Fonda, Tatum O'Neal, Brooke Shield.s, Liz Taylor, Lisa Marie Presley, Sophia Loren, Madonna, etc. He also did songs with Paul McCartney, Eddie Van Halen, & Mick Jagger. So it's like to them Mike hangs around white folks, which is like I mentioned about black celebs marrying white people. I don't know if you've been around NOI and "ankh brothas", but hanging out with "The Man" is usually a no no with them. They're like the frat guy in the Fresh Prince clip. Even with the accusations, people said it was white boys, not black ones. Prince was accused of dating light skinned women. Black performers are said to use light skinned models in their music videos. Light skin/dark skin is another issue with black people. There was also a story in the media years ago that Mike held his nose when he went to Africa, which implied that he thought the people didn't smell good.

Bill Cosby donated to black colleges and it was reported during the 1980s, but many black people said the Cosby Show was unrealistic and there were no black people who really lived like that. I guess they were expecting another Good Times. That black people only lived in the inner city or ghetto and had a hard life.

Everything that you said is true and it saddens me that it is.
Nonetheless, no matter how it appeared, Michael didn't purposely date/ be friends with just white people.
Michael loved and hung around people of all races, and Michael loved Africa so I know that story about him holding his nose isn't true.

Even when it comes to the dark skin/ light skin thing Michael always had dark skinned black women, and dark skinned black people in general in his videos, and from what I know Diana Ross who was a beautiful dark skinned, afro sporting, proud black woman was the love of Michael's life (even if she wasn't he still wouldn't be a self hater).
When people say Michael was a self hater, or hated his race, it's a lie, and one of the many lies that have been spread about Michael that people sadly believe.

Colorism is an issue that I'm sure fueled much of the black community's hatred toward Michael, but that's a rabbit hole I don't even feel like going down (as if Michael wanted to have vitiligo).:smilerolleyes:

As for Bill Cosby, He disgust me.:yes:

 

[GGVVGGCC22331122]

But the average person doesn't follow famous people (at least the pre-internet generations didn't) like that and might not know about it. But if they see Mike in photos and TV appearences with people like Jane Fonda, Tatum O'Neal, Brooke Shield.s, Liz Taylor, Lisa Marie Presley, Sophia Loren, Madonna, etc. He also did songs with Paul McCartney, Eddie Van Halen, & Mick Jagger. So it's like to them Mike hangs around white folks, which is like I mentioned about black celebs marrying white people. I don't know if you've been around NOI and "ankh brothas", but hanging out with "The Man" is usually a no no with them. They're like the frat guy in the Fresh Prince clip. Even with the accusations, people said it was white boys, not black ones. Prince was accused of dating light skinned women. Black performers are said to use light skinned models in their music videos. Light skin/dark skin is another issue with black people. There was also a story in the media years ago that Mike held his nose when he went to Africa, which implied that he thought the people didn't smell good.

Bill Cosby donated to black colleges and it was reported during the 1980s, but many black people said the Cosby Show was unrealistic and there were no black people who really lived like that. I guess they were expecting another Good Times. That black people only lived in the inner city or ghetto and had a hard life.

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[KOPV]

When it comes to black community separating themselves from Michael... It more or less has to do with the skin change and the nose.. It was too easy to believe that he wanted to be white.. Especially in a community that is taught that lighter is 'prettier'.. "they all want the light skin girl" ... "That light skin pretty boy"...

So when you're taught that and you see someone like Mike change, it' natural to have at least SOME in that demographic to feel badly about it.. It was easy to believe that Mike wanted to be light.. even though it was not the case..





The lack of respect Michael gets though is much more driven from white media over black people not ok with his skin... Allow Michael to be seen ABOVE Elvis or the Beetles?? They want him "in his place"...


He's the biggest artist that ever lived.. possibly the most recognizable human in history! anyone thinking otherwise can get over it..

 

[Psychoniff]

^Dark-skinned? Diana Ross? You got to be kidding me:rollin:

 

[KOPV]

^ ha? Diana ross.. what does that have to do with what I said? lol

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

The lack of respect Michael gets though is much more driven from white media over black people not ok with his skin... Allow Michael to be seen ABOVE Elvis or the Beetles?? They want him "in his place"...


He's the biggest artist that ever lived.. possibly the most recognizable human in history! anyone thinking otherwise can get over it..

PREACH!

If I could thank this 1000 times I would.

No one comes close to King Michael!

Notice how there's never a new or next Elvis or Beatles, but there's always a new or next Michael Jackson/King of Pop.
The media acts as if Michael place in music history isn't earned or isn't special.
They act like Michael is replicable and can be replaced when we all know he isn't and never will be.

That's why I say Michael is the standard.
I mean how can't he be?
Every artist that has come after Michael is measured up against him (even other legends).
Michael is the best, a legend among legends, and no one will ever come close to him.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

^Dark-skinned? Diana Ross? You got to be kidding me:rollin:

In the black community Miss Ross is considered dark skinned.
All in all black men seem to have a bit more lee way when it comes to qualifying as light.

 

[DuranDuran]

Notice how there's never a new or next Elvis or Beatles, but there's always a new or next Michael Jackson/King of Pop.

Maybe you don't follow The Beatles, but that's not exactly true. The early Bee Gees were called Beatles clones. Duran Duran and New Kids On The Block were both called "The Fab 5". This is a play on The Beatles being called "Fab 4". The 1990s band Oasis was called new Beatles. There was even a group in the 1970s called Klaatu who were rumored to be the Beatles reunited.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

Maybe you don't follow The Beatles, but that's not exactly true. The early Bee Gees were called Beatles clones. Duran Duran and New Kids On The Block were both called "The Fab 5". This is a play on The Beatles being called "Fab 4". The 1990s band Oasis was called new Beatles. There was even a group in the 1970s called Klaatu who were rumored to be the Beatles reunited.

No, I'm aware.
But the amount of next or new Beatles is almost nonexistent in comparison to the amount of next or new Michael Jackson/ King of Pops there's been and continues to be.
You could google Michael Jackson any day of the week and have multiple articles pop up about "who is the new King of Pop", "Is Michael Jackson still the King of Pop", " Is ----- the new King of Pop", "why ----- is the new King of Pop", " Why ----- is better then Michael Jackson".

The media is OBSESSED with finding another MJ, but they NEVER will find another or anyone who even comes close.

 

[DuranDuran]

mainstream

Everything that you said is true and it saddens me that it is.
Nonetheless, no matter how it appeared, Michael didn't purposely date/ be friends with just white people. Michael loved and hung around people of all races.

That does not really matter. The media/mainstream in the US is white, so they're going to show Mike with white celebs like Liz Taylor more than people of other races. Really they're writing about Liz or Brooke more than Mike. If Mike was dating Patrice Rushen or Lola Falana rather than Brooke Shield.s, the mainstream magazines, TV shows, and newspapers are not going to report that. It might be in Jet magazine or Right On! which most white people do not buy or read and many stores did not carry them. So of course, since the mainstream media is mostly what is seen, people will figure that Mike does not hang around many non-white people. If Mike is in a photo with Teddy Pendergrass, Teddy is not really mainstream known and is not going to be talked about on TV or People magazine. Whenever a black performer dies like Billy Preston, they'll say he worked with The Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, and The Beatles, not Sam Cooke and Aretha Franklin. When B.B. King died last year there was a lot of mention that he did a song with U2, but B.B.'s career started in the late 1940s, way before any of the U2 members were born.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

Re: mainstream

That does not really matter. The media/mainstream in the US is white, so they're going to show Mike with white celebs like Liz Taylor more than people of other races. Really they're writing about Liz or Brooke more than Mike. If Mike was dating Patrice Rushen or Lola Falana rather than Brooke Shield.s, the mainstream magazines, TV shows, and newspapers are not going to report that. It might be in Jet magazine or Right On! which most white people do not buy or read and many stores did not carry them. So of course, since the mainstream media is mostly what is seen, people will figure that Mike does not hang around many non-white people. If Mike is in a photo with Teddy Pendergrass, Teddy is not really mainstream known and is not going to be talked about on TV or People magazine. Whenever a black performer dies like Billy Preston, they'll say he worked with The Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, and The Beatles, not Sam Cooke and Aretha Franklin. When B.B. King died last year there was a lot of mention that he did a song with U2, but B.B.'s career started in the late 1940s, way before any of the U2 members were born.

True.
I just find it crazy that with the advent of the internet that more people haven't done any research to educate themselves about Michael, and the things that the mainstream media doesn't say about him.

 

[Psychoniff]

I was responding to Pink Diamond Princess?

 

[Psychoniff]

Maybe you don't follow The Beatles, but that's not exactly true. The early Bee Gees were called Beatles clones. Duran Duran and New Kids On The Block were both called "The Fab 5". This is a play on The Beatles being called "Fab 4". The 1990s band Oasis was called new Beatles. There was even a group in the 1970s called Klaatu who were rumored to be the Beatles reunited.

Bay City Rollers

 

[DuranDuran]

Re: mainstream

True.
I just find it crazy that with the advent of the internet that more people haven't done any research to educate themselves about Michael, and the things that the mainstream media doesn't say about him.

Why would people research someone they're not interested in? Do you research Ozzy Osbourne or David Bowie? Most people do not follow music acts like that. They might hear a report on TV and that's as far as it goes. I know people who don't know anything about music performers but can talk about a particular football or basketball game from 30 years ago. :rofl: There's also the case that not everybody has the internet or a computer.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

Re: mainstream

Why would people research someone they're not interested in? Do you research Ozzy Osbourne or David Bowie? Most people do not follow music acts like that. They might hear a report on TV and that's as far as it goes. I know people who don't know anything about music performers but can talk about a particular football or basketball game from 30 years ago. :rofl: There's also the case that not everybody has the internet or a computer.

For someone as widely known as Michael yes I would research him even if I wasn't a fan.
But that's just me.
To me no matter what the media has said NO hatred of Michael is justified.

 

[DuranDuran]

Re: mainstream

NO hatred of Michael is justified.

People hated Jesus Christ and hung him on a cross. What makes Mike exempt? There's not a single person that has ever existed that everyone likes.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

Re: mainstream

People hated Jesus Christ and hung him on a cross. What makes Mike exempt? There's not a single person that has ever existed that everyone likes.

Now now I'm an MJ fan but I hate when people bring Jesus into the convo, compare MJ to Jesus, etc.
Michael was/is not Jesus!

Also I didn't say that Michael can't be hated I said that the hatred isn't/wasn't justified.

And the reason I say hatred of Michael isn't justified is because 99.9 % of the time when people hate Michael it's based on lies they've been fed by the media. :yes:
Not once have I seen someone say they hate Michael have they had a legit reason to do so.
The day someone has a legit reason to hate Michael then I'll change my mind.

Additionally, not hating doesn't someone dosen't equal liking them.

 

[GGVVGGCC22331122]

But the average person doesn't follow famous people (at least the pre-internet generations didn't) like that and might not know about it. But if they see Mike in photos and TV appearences with people like Jane Fonda, Tatum O'Neal, Brooke Shield.s, Liz Taylor, Lisa Marie Presley, Sophia Loren, Madonna, etc. He also did songs with Paul McCartney, Eddie Van Halen, & Mick Jagger. So it's like to them Mike hangs around white folks, which is like I mentioned about black celebs marrying white people. I don't know if you've been around NOI and "ankh brothas", but hanging out with "The Man" is usually a no no with them. They're like the frat guy in the Fresh Prince clip. Even with the accusations, people said it was white boys, not black ones. Prince was accused of dating light skinned women. Black performers are said to use light skinned models in their music videos. Light skin/dark skin is another issue with black people. There was also a story in the media years ago that Mike held his nose when he went to Africa, which implied that he thought the people didn't smell good.

Bill Cosby donated to black colleges and it was reported during the 1980s, but many black people said the Cosby Show was unrealistic and there were no black people who really lived like that. I guess they were expecting another Good Times. That black people only lived in the inner city or ghetto and had a hard life.

IKR.
It's sad really.
Accusations of black celebrities, stars, etc being "sellouts", and "self haters" has been around for a LONG time.
It honestly just seems like no other celeb has felt the brunt of such accusations as badly and on as large a scale as Michael did and still is.

I really do agree with both of you, on this. Sure, we’ve had to deal with people who question almost everything about Michael, or anything having to do with him. These people who either suggest, imply or outright say that Michael “left” or “abandoned” the Black community have a lot of very deep-seated issues within themselves that come out, not just when discussing Michael and how he felt about his own outward physical appearance, but when talking about the physical appearance of whomever he associated himself with that wasn’t a direct member of his immediate family (people who were neither Michael’s parents nor his siblings), when discussing other people with whom he was photographed or seen out in public, the WOMEN in his life - with whom he were intimately involved (including two ex-wives, one of whom is mother to two of his children) - as to what race/nationality/ethnic background they were.

Was Michael only supposed to have been constantly around, and in exclusive association with, BLACK people (as if to say that the more visibly “African” he and they looked, the more strongly he would have “identified” as such, with his “African-ness,” just because of his natural hair texture and color, skin and eye colors, “pre-surgery” facial features, and so forth)? Michael didn’t judge people by what they looked like on the outside, but by their inner qualities, the kind of actions they showed that brought such qualities out along with whatever experiences and interests they had in common with him.

So, this idea of his having “left” his own race (because of his wanting to “be White,” according to those calling him a “sellout,” falsely accusing him of “self-hatred,” which he definitely wasn’t showing - when he was anything but “a self-hater, who left his community and his race”), having nothing to do with any person simply because of how they look or only wanting to be around those outside of his family is completely false and totally ridiculous. Also, the idea that he should have looked a certain way, associated and gotten involved exclusively with members of his own race/ethnicity who looked that same way, is equally just as ridiculous. Neither idea makes any sense at all.

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[TheChosenOne]

As with most matters pertaining to Michael, this topic is complex and completed and I have enjoyed reading everyone's contribution.

My take is - rock critics, etc may not get Michael and his music. They are human beings after all, and will have their personal biases and tastes. Perfectly understandable. But that should not preclude them from acknowledging his ability to excel in the area that he chose and his impact on the international cultural landscape. I feel that there are many reasons why some fail to do so. Most have been adequately covered here. I would like to discuss another one.

There is a theory that humans have organized themselves into communities and subconsciously there is a need to ensure that no one person in that community gets too far ahead of the rest. That is why people gossip. It is a great leveler. I know I am not doing the theory justice but I hope you get the general gist. It is why we build people up and then gleefully pull them down. It is why sustained propaganda and/our brute force is needed in totalitarian states.

Michael Jackson was something we had never seen before and the way he was embraced all around the world, his fame, his power was staggering. It is only natural that there would be those within the human community who would feel compelled to humanize him, to ground him. Cause tell me tell ya, I was around during the Dangerous era and after the Oprah interview Michael Jackson was set to take off to higher, frightening levels. I remember overhearing conversations about how Michael was a force of nature, unstoppable! There was a lot of 'isn't there anything that this man can't do and do phenonemally?' The decision to slow his roll may have been conscious and deliberate in a lot of cases, but I think it was also an unconscious human need.

As for RS we don't know what went on behind the scenes. Artists and the media have an interesting relationship. There is a lot of quid pro quo going on. Maybe after RS rejected MJ for the OTW cover, Michael decided that when he made it so big that they could not ignore him, he would not do any of their covers no matter how they begged. And maybe they did ask/beg and he turned them down and that further soured their relationship.

My final point I am happy to see that we have kept this discussion external of Michael. After 30 something years as a fan, I am weary of Michael being seen as the reason for certain things. Too many hee hees and the like. Some things we can lay at Michael's door but we do need to do a vigourous examination of other people's neuroses, traumas, beliefs and fears and how those things contribute to how Michael is perceived and treated.

Peace out. For now.

 

[KOPV]

One thing that gets overlooked Is the fact that it was because of Michael and the demands he had.. They way he wanted to layer sounds/music is why there was a specially made soundboard specifically for him.. This became a standard soundboard style used for decades after - even today. That changes the sound of music in a HUGE way!!

This is something that I learned in my music history class years back. The details outside of that I forget!!

 

[OffTheWall22]

Re: mazazines

That doesn't mean that the magazine itself is racist. It's not just Rolling Stone. How many other mainstream magazines put non-white people on the cover often? That's not just in 1979 but today as well. When I see Vogue, Field & Stream, People, or Better Housekeeping, white people are on the cover more often than other races/ethnicities. That's even true for tabloids like National Inquirer. You might see black people on the cover regularly on Sports Illustrated, because the most popular sports in the US like basketball & football have a lot of black players. But for the swimsuit issues, white women are more common. Magazines are a business designed to make money, so of course they're going to put someone who is likely to sell more on the cover to grab the person's attention. The picture is the first thing a person sees, not the headline or even the name of the magazine.

This is all still a part of racism. You can say that it's what the majority wants to see and they give the people what they want, but the fact is that the majority of people in this country are white, and many have latent racial issues. It all goes back to racism/white supremacy. You're just making excuses at this point.

 

[OffTheWall22]

The recent Lil' Kim pics and people putting her down online, is probably not going to help Mike's case with some. There's also the radio host Charlamagne Tha God and baseball player Sammy Sosa, who've been accused of bleaching and people talking about Beyoncé's blond hair. These others might be considered more evidence to people who say Mike bleached his skin. But some blacks said Mike sold out before the vitiligo because he changed his music to reach the white audience. Others like Lionel Richie, Prince, Kool & The Gang, and Tina Turner have also been accused of selling out and abandoning the black audience that supported them in the beginning. They were upset that Lionel quit doing funk with the Commodores to make adult contemporary. Johnny Mathis, Sammy Davis Jr, and Jimi Hendrix have been said to make white music. Jimi got little if any airplay on R&B stations and his audience was more white that black. Rock is considered to be white music even though black performers invented it. Whitney Houston was booed at the Soul Train Awards one year and was accused of marrying Bobby Brown to get street cred. They also put down black celebs who date or marry white people. So that didn't begin or end with Mike. It goes all the way back to Louis Armstrong, the TV show Amos & Andy, and the actor Stepin Fetchit. You could even say that's the difference in the people who followed Malcolm X or Marcus Garvey and Martin Luther King.

That's an issue that many ignorant black people have. As though branching out to other sounds and styles means you don't want to be black anymore and no longer care about you're community. It's a sad mindset to have.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

That's an issue that many ignorant black people have. As though branching out to other sounds and styles means you don't want to be black anymore and no longer care about you're community. It's a sad mindset to have.

why is it that black people in this equation are always called ignorant

why don't people outside of that community take one minute of their time to consider, and really asked themselves why the black community as a whole reacted the way they did when it comes to this particular situation......if a community responded in the 80s in similar fashion than they did in the 30s, then that should show all of us that none of that can be a coincidence

why is the black community called out all the time when many of the musical styles/genres that america and eventually the world came to enjoy throughout the 20th century to the present day, was influenced by the very community that people call ignorant all the time

maybe for once people need to stop attacking another people and start looking at the system itself that is making the people react the way they do

and maybe if we start doing that, that would be the first step to finally seeing and acknowledging there has been a very serious problem that has continued to excascerbate time and time again for the greater part of a century, and if we did that, then we can start finding the right solutions to correct this issue once and for all........it's not black people, it's the system




the day Whitney Houston's debut album was released in 1985, she was already being told by advisors she looked to ethnic and instructed her to refrain from conducting any interviews with black oriented press or radio, even though it was black people who started buying her records before anyone else, so that awful advice was already setting her up for major backlash when black people as a whole picked up on what was taking place and how it was being alienated while simultaneously was responsible for making it possible for her to sell the enormous amount of records she did started out, most people don't know Whitney was told this.......that's is what led to the backlash at the 1989 Soul Train Awards....


if she had not been encouraged to do that starting out, the backlash would have never happened.....

it's not the people, it's the system that needs to be addressed

 

[KOPV]

Ignorance comes in all colors, people put others in a box.. You are this 'type' of person so this is what you should do and this is what we should expect from you.. When you get out of the box than people cannot put connotations to you that help them grasp who you are...

That's also how you stay interesting and relevant!

People don't have reason to speak about what Is known... You don't hear many conversations about the fact grass is green... We know it is.. Now if you had a patch of grass that was bright purple - that would be talked about..


Stay out of your lane and let the collision happen, it's the only way to make an impact!

 

[OffTheWall22]

why is it that black people in this equation are always called ignorant

why don't people outside of that community take one minute of their time to consider, and really asked themselves why the black community as a whole reacted the way they did when it comes to this particular situation......if a community responded in the 80s in similar fashion than they did in the 30s, then that should show all of us that none of that can be a coincidence

why is the black community called out all the time when many of the musical styles/genres that america and eventually the world came to enjoy throughout the 20th century to the present day, was influenced by the very community that people call ignorant all the time

maybe for once people need to stop attacking another people and start looking at the system itself that is making the people react the way they do

and maybe if we start doing that, that would be the first step to finally seeing and acknowledging there has been a very serious problem that has continued to excascerbate time and time again for the greater part of a century, and if we did that, then we can start finding the right solutions to correct this issue once and for all........it's not black people, it's the system




the day Whitney Houston's debut album was released in 1985, she was already being told by advisors she looked to ethnic and instructed her to refrain from conducting any interviews with black oriented press or radio, even though it was black people who started buying her records before anyone else, so that awful advice was already setting her up for major backlash when black people as a whole picked up on what was taking place and how it was being alienated while simultaneously was responsible for making it possible for her to sell the enormous amount of records she did started out, most people don't know Whitney was told this.......that's is what led to the backlash at the 1989 Soul Train Awards....


if she had not been encouraged to do that starting out, the backlash would have never happened.....

it's not the people, it's the system that needs to be addressed

First of all, I am black.

Second, it's a fact that many black people unfortunately feel that if a black artist dabbles in rock, country, or pop that they are trying to distance themselves from the community. That's why they were going in on Mike at the beginning of Thriller era, Whitney, Prince and others. That their sound was too popish and not pure R&B.

And yes, anyone who believes that you have to do pure R&B to be proud of your blackness is ignorant. I didn't disparage the entire community, so I don't know what you're talking about. It's also just as ignorant to judge someone for their actions when you know how the system does black folks.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

First of all, I am black.

Second, it's a fact that many black people unfortunately feel that if a black artist dabbles in rock, country, or pop that they are trying to distance themselves from the community. That's why they were going in on Mike at the beginning of Thriller era, Whitney, Prince and others. That their sound was too popish and not pure R&B.

And yes, anyone who believes that you have to do pure R&B to be proud of your blackness is ignorant. I didn't disparage the entire community, so I don't know what you're talking about. It's also just as ignorant to judge someone for their actions when you know how the system does black folks.

I dont use the word ignorant in my vocabulary because its insulting in nature and it lets the system off the hook

When Beat It was released, even though it was a rock oriented song, that song hit #1 on the r&b charts, and only then did it reach #1 on the pop and rock charts, before the video hit MTV, it was already #1 in the r&b

The Girl Is Mine, which is considered pure pop, hit #1 on r&b charts, then only then did pop radio support it reaching #2 on the billboard charts

Same pattern with Wanna Be Starting Somethin, and that was not considered an r&b song

same thing with the Bad single, r&b radio was playing that song weeks before it was officially released

The song Scream, a hybrid between funk, rock, pop....that song reached higher on the r&b charts than the pop charts

His last #1 single in the United States, You Are Not Alone, pinned by R. Kelly, worked its way up the r&b charts before it did the pop charts and was not considered as traditional r&b

Its not about the different genres that is the problem

The genre of music is not the issue

The song Ben was nowhere near the realm of r&b, but if anyone pulls out the Jacksons live album of 1981 during the Triumph Tour, the people in that crowd was singing right along with him

And pop in of itself is not a genre as much as it is about validation or stature, it incorporates what has already been cultivated and reaches its fulfillment.

 

[KOPV]

its not the type of music where the bias against michael came... its the fact he was black and got bigger than life... he got bigger than he was "supposed" to