Does MJ's lack of respect from serious music critics/rock press/music snobs bother you?

[FullLipsDotNose]

Re: country & western

Neither, I'm only talking about country music because a poster wrote this:

Anybody who says something like that must not know much about country or hip hop. I pointed out that not many black performers have attempted to do country music exclusively, so is not relevant to white rappers. I also said that few white rappers have become popular out of many black rappers, and that more whites listen to rap than blacks who listen to country, so there is less chance that black singers will go into country. Like not many black people go to a Renaissance Faire compared to whites. And there is not an Eminem & Iggy Azalea for every black rapper.

Well, out of the black country performers that have been mentioned here, I don't know any. I don't live in the US though. Eminem is internationally recognised, Ugly Azalea to a lesser extent.

But even if I look at my country's example (racially homogeneous actually), there are white as well as Roma rappers, but you don't have Roma country musicians, at least those that would get wider recognition. Racial dynamics is really important here. You can easily become a successful white hip-hop musician, but not so easily a black country musician.

 

[KOPV]

Whatever the case is, we can crack the egg and try to dissect the yoke from the whites... but there is racism all over the place in the entertainment industry and it plays a big roll... It highly plays a role in Michaels legacy along with any other entertainer..

White artists/actors have a big advantage.. and I'd think that would be very very clear

 

[DuranDuran]

Re: country & western

Well, out of the black country performers that have been mentioned here, I don't know any. I don't live in the US though. Eminem is internationally recognised, Ugly Azalea to a lesser extent.

But even if I look at my country's example (racially homogeneous actually), there are white as well as Roma rappers, but you don't have Roma country musicians, at least those that would get wider recognition. Racial dynamics is really important here. You can easily become a successful white hip-hop musician, but not so easily a black country musician.

Rap translates more than country. Like you got Red Hot Chili Peppers in which the lead singer often raps the lyrics. There's even rap in country today called "hick hop". In the US, rap has a wider audience than country music in that rap appeals to more ethnicities and fans of other genres in general than country does. Country is popular, but the makeup of the audience is generally more limited. The more mainstream popular country acts are not really country at all, more like pop music with a little twangy guitar such as Rascal Flatts & Taylor Swift.

There's this stereotype that only hillbillies, "trailer trash", and rednecks listen to country music or go to rodeos, which is not true. So even with some whites, country music is seen as low class, or that rural people are seen as country bumpkins like The Beverly Hillbillies or Sheriff Roscoe on Dukes Of Hazzard. Critics didn't generally praise Hee Haw.

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

I say that because that term was stragically used by white media to exclude black artists... ask yourself how often you heard the term white artist... not much id assume.. when white media excludes black music from general music it catorgorizes it in a way where it can not be mixed... theres a reason why michael said he doesnt want to be thought of as a black artist or a white artist etc.. because it was used by the media as a term to sublimonaly amd litterally segregate black musicians from the rest..

I am not saying it as in he was not a black artist, but the way the media used it was intentiinal... used it to keep black artists in there lane and know there "place"

Thanks for explaining yourself, because I won't hesitate to call out any f*ckery when it comes to anything racist or diminishing who Mike is and how he identified. I'm glad he never accepted those bs barriers and broke them down.

 

[HIStoric]

Re: country & western

Eminem is internationally recognised, Ugly Azalea to a lesser extent.

Pretty hypocritical that some Michael Jackson fans get upset when MJ's called W.acko J.acko and other petty insulting nicknames, but then go ahead and do the same towards other artists. I've seen it on here for other celebrities too, like Justin Bieber.

Not even a fan of Iggy but come on man, grow up.

 

[FullLipsDotNose]

Re: country & western

Pretty hypocritical that some Michael Jackson fans get upset when MJ's called W.acko J.acko and other petty insulting nicknames, but then go ahead and do the same towards other artists. I've seen it on here for other celebrities too, like Justin Bieber.

Not even a fan of Iggy but come on man, grow up.

I apologise.

 

[HIStoric]

Re: country & western

I apologise.

We cool.

 

[GGVVGGCC22331122]

Well, out of the black country performers that have been mentioned here, I don't know any. I don't live in the US though. Eminem is internationally recognised, Ugly Azalea to a lesser extent.

But even if I look at my country's example (racially homogeneous actually), there are white as well as Roma rappers, but you don't have Roma country musicians, at least those that would get wider recognition. Racial dynamics is really important here. You can easily become a successful white hip-hop musician, but not so easily a black country musician.

Interesting comments, FullLipsDotNose. If I may ask you,* (*And, please let me know if I am getting too personal, here, with my questions. If I am, my most sincere apologies.) “What country are you originally from, and who or what are the ‘Roma’ people?” Yes, it is definitely true, that certain art forms that originated* with particular cultures (*especially, with ethnic/racial/cultural groups and their descendants’ having a long history of centuries of being subjected to all kinds of racial/ethnic discrimination, cultural exploitation by the dominant society [one that has always enjoyed the advantages and privileges of its people at the expense of others whom it oppresses, for its own use, commercial and financial gain], economic deprivation, physical mistreatment and abuse, etc., in countries to where people’s ancestors were brought, them having forcibly been removed from their original homelands and birthplaces) are well-known to everyone around the world.

The people who were basically mistreated, killed, culturally and economically exploited, taken advantage of and abused in every possible way there is or ever was - who also had been forced out of their original homeland and relocated, in order to “work” for their oppressors, and who were stripped of almost just about everything they ever identified with from birth - whose original culture was looked down upon, treated with disdain, then ripped off and stolen from without any acknowledgement, credit nor recognition ever given to them who had endured suffering, but given to other people instead (“appropriated”), who co-opted and blatantly copied off of it; They were the real forerunners and originators of basically what’s considered “popular” in music, in fashion and so forth, today.

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[FullLipsDotNose]

Interesting comments, FullLipsDotNose. If I may ask you,* (And, please let me know if I am getting too personal, here, with my questions. If I am, my most sincere apologies.) “What country are you originally from, and who or what are the ‘Roma’ people?” Yes, it is definitely true, that certain art forms that originated* with particular cultures (*especially, with ethnic/racial/cultural groups and their descendants’ having a long history of centuries of being subjected to all kinds of racial/ethnic discrimination, cultural exploitation by the dominant society [one that has always enjoyed the advantages and privileges of its people at the expense of others whom it oppresses, for its own use, commercial and financial gain], economic deprivation, physical mistreatment and abuse, etc., in countries to where people’s ancestors were brought, them having forcibly been removed from their original homelands and birthplaces) are well-known to everyone around the world.

The people who were basically mistreated, killed, culturally and economically exploited, taken advantage of and abused in every possible way there is or ever was - who also had been forced out of their original homeland and relocated, in order to “work” for their oppressors, and who were stripped of almost just about everything they ever identified with from birth - whose original culture was looked down upon, treated with disdain, then ripped off and stolen from without any acknowledgement, credit nor recognition ever given to them who had endured suffering, but given to other people instead (“appropriated&#8221, who co-opted and blatantly copied off of it; They were the real forerunners and originators of basically what’s considered “popular” in music, in fashion and so forth, today.

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I'm from the Czech Republic. The Roma people (also Romani people) are those that are sometimes referred to as "gypsies", but it's considered a slur by many.

 

[GGVVGGCC22331122]

Re: country & western

I'm from the Czech Republic. The Roma people (also Romani people) are those that are sometimes referred to as "gypsies", but it's considered a slur by many.

Thank you, for explaining to me, FullLipsDotNose. I really do appreciate it. My last post was a bit long, but do you understand what I was trying to point out?

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[Ms. BlueGangsta]

All in all there is a racial bias in the music Industry, and the entertainment industry as a whole (this cannot be denied).
Why is it that people say MJ wanted to look white, when all of his presumed wanting to look white was due to medical conditions, but when a white person or anyone else tans, gets lip plumpers, etc, they aren't trying to look black?
Also notice how it's always said that he wanted to look white when there are other races that have light skin, a slim nose, and straight hair.
In the entertainment industry white is right, white is the standard, and anyhthing else is seen as a deviation from the standard.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

I'd also like to add that when it comes to Michael in particular that the media did a GREAT JOB of making people think he was a self hater.
To this day, despite everything that Michael has done for the Black community and his place in Black history you'll find just as many black people that think that Michael was a self hater, and wanted to be white as any other race.
Infact it seems that the Black people that believe Michael was a self hater are more vicious toward him then other races are because they see him as a "sellout".

What they don't realize is Michael wasn't a "sellout" he just had mass appeal and was/is such a big global star that everyone loved/loves him no matter what race they are.

When it comes to Michael many people are willingly ignorant because they want to believe the lies.

 

[GGVVGGCC22331122]

All in all there is a racial bias in the music Industry, and the entertainment industry as a whole (this cannot be denied).
Why is it that people say MJ wanted to look white, when all of his presumed wanting to look white was due to medical conditions, but when a white person or anyone else tans, gets lip plumpers, etc, they aren't trying to look black?
Also notice how it's always said that he wanted to look white when there are other races that have light skin, a slim nose, and straight hair.
In the entertainment industry white is right, white is the standard, and anyhthing else is seen as a deviation from the standard.

I'd also like to add that when it comes to Michael in particular that the media did a GREAT JOB of making people think he was a self hater.
To this day, despite everything that Michael has done for the Black community and his place in Black history you'll find just as many black people that think that Michael was a self hater, and wanted to be white as any other race.
In fact it seems that the Black people that believe Michael was a self hater are more vicious toward him then other races are because they see him as a "sellout."
What they don't realize is Michael wasn't a "sellout" he just had mass appeal and was/is such a big global star that everyone loved/loves him no matter what race they are.
When it comes to Michael many people are willingly ignorant because they want to believe the lies.

You’re absolutely right, in the comments you’ve posted, Pink Diamond Princess. Michael made his point very clear, even as far back as Early-1993, when he gave Oprah Winfrey that interview. When she brought up the story (which turned out to be another vicious rumor being spread about him, anyway - especially, one that fed into what some in the Black community had already negatively assumed, and still continue to believe) that he wanted a White child to portray him as his “younger” self, at 11 or 12 years of age, lip-synching to “I’ll Be There” in an Early-1990’s Pepsi commercial, this was when Michael really started driving home the point that he was “proud of [his] race.”

Here are the actual Videos of Oprah Winfrey’s interview with Michael. Pay particular attention to the segment when she brings up the story about the Pepsi commercial, and what Michael said - the way he said it - when he answered in response to her questions.

[VIDEO=youtube;2qIwpcyQLgc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qIwpcyQLgc[/VIDEO]
[VIDEO=youtube;BbItFJJPPmA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbItFJJPPmA[/VIDEO]
[VIDEO=youtube;xBHdJeJrceA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBHdJeJrceA[/VIDEO]

It’s bad enough, that the so-called “mainstream” media (most of it, in his case) had such a hard time believing what he said in different, various interviews he gave over the years. Most of these “journalists,” who are no better than the tabloid “writers”/“reporters” who spread all kinds of rumors and gossip, write questionable, sensationalistic stories specifically designed for getting readers’/T.V. viewers’/Internet posters’ attention, their curiosity about the goings-on of celebrities (which would include Michael Jackson amongst them, naturally) and the public’s interest in such stories, whether these “reports” are either true or false.

It’s even worse, when some amongst his own race and community have turned their backs on him and went against him - rather than the other way around, with Michael’s being falsely accused of having “left” and “abandoned” them - because of not only the obvious drastic changes in his outward physical appearance (his supposedly having appeared less and less “African” and masculine, since “Thriller”), but also because of questioning who his close friends and acquaintances were and what they looked like (racially and ethnically, despite the fact that he associated with a wide variety of people from nearly all backgrounds - be they economic, racial, social backgrounds, etc.), whom he personally associated with, whom he was intimately involved with (the WOMEN he were personally associated with - including his former wives), what his children look like, and so forth, choosing to go along with whatever the media is feeding them - outright LIES - rather than be told the truth.

He has done a great deal to help people in any type of community, including the Black community. Yet, he was severely looked down upon, first of all, because of the drastic changes in his appearance, as well as his choice of friendships and personal associations being judged and closely scrutinized, the people with whom (it was mistakenly thought) he was mostly seen and photographed, publicly, yet outside of his own family, supposedly his not having had anything to do with in private. Nothing could have been any further from the truth.

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[Danja]

Get off your high horse. David is unknown in non Western countries. To even suggest he is as influential as MJ is laughable. Nothing to do with the man really.

I am from Bosnia and Herzegovina so I can tell you that David is not unknown in non Western countries.

 

[LindavG]

I am from Bosnia and Herzegovina so I can tell you that David is not unknown in non Western countries.

I'm pretty sure Europe is in the West. Which David are we talking about anyway?

 

[FullLipsDotNose]

I'm pretty sure Europe is in the West. Which David are we talking about anyway?

That really depends on what country you're talking about.

 

[Danja]

David Bowie, he is well-known in all countries of Ex-Yugoslavia. Well, you could say that we are west according to people from Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey etc.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

David Bowie, he is well-known in all countries of Ex-Yugoslavia. Well, you could say that we are west according to people from Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey etc.

I'm sure david bowie is widely known, but Michael is one of if not the single most known people to ever walk this earth, so yes David Bowie is widely known just not as much as Michael.

 

[KOPV]

comparing the fame of David Bowie to the most famous man that has lived in our lifetime? I don't really need to go into that one do I?

 

[Danja]

comparing the fame of David Bowie to the most famous man that has lived in our lifetime? I don't really need to go into that one do I?

No, no need to compare, of course I know that, I am a fan of MJ (obviously), I was just saying that DB is not that unknown in non-Western countries. But, of course, almost everyone is familiar with Michael.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

[/I] especially, one that fed into what some in the Black community had already negatively assumed, and still continue to believe)[/B]

^^^^
This is very true.
Much of the black community had/ has turned their backs on Michael already, and spreading rumors and lies only fed/feeds into the hatred and negative feelings they already had/have for Michael.
I honestly find it ridiculous how some of the black community says that Michael disowned his blackness when in reality much of the black community disowned (and continues to disown) Michael.

I really think that his own race turning their backs on him, making jokes about him wanting to be white, and believing and making jokes about the allegations hurt him more then when people of other races did it, but in spite of everything, Michael never once uttered a bad word about or criticized the black community in any way.

One day I hope things will change and that the black community realizes just how much of a one of a kind gem Michael was/is, and how valuable he is to them because no other black entertainer has done as much for the black community as Michael has, though even if they don't it's not Michael's loss.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

^^^^
This is very true.
Much of the black community had/ has turned their backs on Michael already, and spreading rumors and lies only fed/feeds into the hatred and negative feelings they already had/have for Michael.
I honestly find it ridiculous how some of the black community says that Michael disowned his blackness when in reality much of the black community disowned (and continues to disown) Michael.

I really think that his own race turning their backs on him, making jokes about him wanting to be white, and believing and making jokes about the allegations hurt him more then when people of other races did it, but in spite of everything, Michael never once uttered a bad word about or criticized the black community in any way.

One day I hope things will change and that the black community realizes just how much of a one of a kind gem Michael was/is, and how valuable he is to them because no other black entertainer has done as much for the black community as Michael has, though even if they don't it's not Michael's loss.

Its really sad and destructive what all if this has come down to. I mean its real sad.

For the past 13 years, Ive read comment after comment posted on every conceivable forum on the internet and what should have went down as the greatest story in music has morphed into the greatest tragedy and it happened fast

And it always comes down to black people, the black community being attacked and blamed for a demise and a destruction we are not responsible for. We are the people who bought the Jackson Fives very first record on Steeltown records, we are the people who bought I Want You Back, ABC, The Love You Save, and Ill Be There by majority when J5 became a national sensation overnight, we are the people by majority who made the Jackson Five Christmas album the greatest holiday record of all time, we are the people who set the foundation for Michael Jackson to become a global superstar in Europe, in South America, in Asia, in Australia, and in Africa....without our support, he never goes on to sell the 750 million records he did, without us supporting Off The Wall by majority, Michael is never able to create the greatest selling album in music history in Thriller, without the influence if black culture, Michael Jackson never learns or master what would became his signature dance he showcased in front of the world in the Moonwalk........without the support of the black community, he would not have the relevancy or the cache to have awards named in his honor....without the support of his community in Indiana, Michael Jackson wouldn't be remembered today because his career would never had lasted as long as it did

As a black person myself, its unfortunate that this turns into a racial issue but when I read stuff like this, it has become just that. If things would have been done the way that it was meant, then NOBODY would have to blame anyone for anything


We are not the cause for the tragedy that concluded in this man's life or career

The system of racism and how it destroys people is the root core problem

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

Its really sad and destructive what all if this has come down to. I mean its real sad.

For the past 13 years, Ive read comment after comment posted on every conceivable forum on the internet and what should have went down as the greatest story in music has morphed into the greatest tragedy and ut happened fast

And it always comes down to black people, the black community being attacked and blamed for a demise and a destruction we are not responsible for. We are the people who bought the Jackson Fives very first record on Steeltown records, we are the people who bought I Want You Back, ABC, The Love You Save, and Ill Be There by majority when J5 became a national sensation overnight, we are the people by majority who made the Jackson Five Christmas album the greatest holiday record of all time, we are the people who set the foundation for Michael Jackson to become a global superstar in Europe, in South America, in Asia, in Australia, and in Africa....without our support, he never goes on to sell the 750 million records he did, without us supporting Off The Wall by majority, Michael is never able to create the greatest selling album in music history in Thriller, without the influence if black culture, Michael Jackson never learns or master what would became his signature dance he showcased in front if the world in the Moonwalk........without the support of the black community, he would nit have the relevancy or the cache to have awards named in his honor....without the support of his community in Indiana, Michael Jackson wouldn't be remembered today becausr his career would never had lasted as long as it did

As a black person myself, its unfortunate that this turns into a racial issue but when I read stuff like this, it has become just that. If things would have been done the way that it was meant, then NOBODY would have to blame anyone for anything


We are not the cause for the tragedy that concluded in this man's life or career

No one race is to blame for all of the hatred directed at Michael, but my point stands because I'm sure that it did hurt Michael particularly bad to see his own race say he was a self hater, a sellout, etc.

Michael took great pride in not only being the worlds best entertainer and the King of Pop, but being BLACK and still being the worlds greatest entertainer and the King of Pop, so it without a doubt cut him deep to have so many people from his own race turn their backs on him and feed into the media lies.

As for the black community being solely responsible for Michael's success I'd say that's about 50% true.

And lastly, not that it matters, but I'm black too.

 

[DuranDuran]

I honestly find it ridiculous how some of the black community says that Michael disowned his blackness when in reality much of the black community disowned (and continues to disown) Michael.

The recent Lil' Kim pics and people putting her down online, is probably not going to help Mike's case with some. There's also the radio host Charlamagne Tha God and baseball player Sammy Sosa, who've been accused of bleaching and people talking about Beyoncé's blond hair. These others might be considered more evidence to people who say Mike bleached his skin. But some blacks said Mike sold out before the vitiligo because he changed his music to reach the white audience. Others like Lionel Richie, Prince, Kool & The Gang, and Tina Turner have also been accused of selling out and abandoning the black audience that supported them in the beginning. They were upset that Lionel quit doing funk with the Commodores to make adult contemporary. Johnny Mathis, Sammy Davis Jr, and Jimi Hendrix have been said to make white music. Jimi got little if any airplay on R&B stations and his audience was more white that black. Rock is considered to be white music even though black performers invented it. Whitney Houston was booed at the Soul Train Awards one year and was accused of marrying Bobby Brown to get street cred. They also put down black celebs who date or marry white people. So that didn't begin or end with Mike. It goes all the way back to Louis Armstrong, the TV show Amos & Andy, and the actor Stepin Fetchit. You could even say that's the difference in the people who followed Malcolm X or Marcus Garvey and Martin Luther King.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

The recent Lil' Kim pics and people putting her down online, is probably not going to help Mike's case with some. There's also the radio host Charlamagne Tha God and baseball player Sammy Sosa, who've been accused of bleaching and people talking about Beyoncé's blond hair. These others might be considered more evidence to people who say Mike bleached his skin. But some blacks said Mike sold out before the vitiligo because he changed his music to reach the white audience. Others like Lionel Richie, Prince, Kool & The Gang, and Tina Turner have also been accused of selling out and abandoning the black audience that supported them in the beginning. They were upset that Lionel quit doing funk with the Commodores to make adult contemporary. Johnny Mathis, Sammy Davis Jr, and Jimi Hendrix have been said to make white music. Jimi got little if any airplay on R&B stations and his audience was more white that black. Rock is considered to be white music even though black performers invented it. Whitney Houston was booed at the Soul Train Awards one year and was accused of marrying Bobby Brown to get street cred. They also put down black celebs who date or marry white people. So that didn't begin or end with Mike. It goes all the way back to Louis Armstrong, the TV show Amos & Andy, and the actor Stepin Fetchit. You could even say that's the difference in the people who followed Malcolm X or Marcus Garvey and Martin Luther King.

IKR.
It's sad really.
Accusations of black celebrities, stars, etc being "sellouts", and "self haters" has been around for a LONG time.
It honestly just seems like no other celeb has felt the brunt of such accusations as badly and on as large a scale as Michael did and still is.

 

[DuranDuran]

Fresh Prince

IKR.
It's sad really.
Accusations of black celebrities, stars, etc being "sellouts", and "self haters" has been around for a LONG time.
It honestly just seems like no other celeb has felt the brunt of such accusations as badly and on as large a scale as Michael did and still is.

That's pretty much what the TV show Fresh Prince Of Bel-Aire was about. Will & Jazz were streetwise & cool and the Banks Family, especially Carlton & Hilary were always made fun of by Will. Carlton liked Barry Manilow & Tom Jones when he was supposed to like hip hop like Will, and Carton spoke "proper English" instead of Ebonics and slang.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

Re: Fresh Prince

That's pretty much what the TV show Fresh Prince Of Bel-Aire was about. Will & Jazz were streetwise & cool and the Banks Family, especially Carlton & Hilary were always made fun of by Will. Carlton liked Barry Manilow & Tom Jones when he was supposed to like hip hop like Will, and Carton spoke "proper English" instead of Ebonics and slang.

That's one episode of the fresh Prince that's always stuck in my mind.
I really like how in the end Will stuck up for Carlton.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

No one race is to blame for all of the hatred directed at Michael, but my point stands because I'm sure that it did hurt Michael particularly bad to see his own race say he was a self hater, a sellout, etc.

Michael took great pride in not only being the worlds best entertainer and the King of Pop, but being BLACK and still being the worlds greatest entertainer and the King of Pop, so it without a doubt cut him deep to have so many people from his own race turn their backs on him and feed into the media lies.

As for the black community being solely responsible for Michael's success I'd say that's about 50% true.

And lastly, not that it matters, but I'm black too.

I did not say we were solely responsible

But we were the foundation, there is no doubt about that

Just as one can say that Michael was hurt with what was being said, that can be reciprocated because the community was feeling hurt too

And the problem aint really about who was saying what but the institution of racism that fosters race superiority that restricts people, communities, and cultures from functioning properly

A system of reinforcement that led a Lil Kim to totally give into it and contort her entire appearance


If racism was eradicated, I mean really done away with, we would never be talking about backlash, we wouldn't be calling people haters, we wouldnt be accusing people of self hate

Racism is a disease that acts on many platforms and acts as the most destructive form of activity on earth

People right now in the Caribbean, in Asia, in South America, and in Africa are altering their natural complexion as we speak to meet the beauty that has been indoctrinated in society that promotes race superiority....it is destroying people and causing a world of dissension and hostility in the proces, robbing people of their self worth and dignity

 

[KOPV]

Charlamagne is a stubborn idiot... lol


As far as racism goes YES it is a very ugly thing ... We use that part of the brain every day when making judgement calls.. That is why it is so hard to rid... not just with race but- when you see any type of person they will always give you a vibe by pure appearance.. (tattoos, beard, walk, demeanor etc.) .. even with animals "jeez that dog looks mean"..

We do it as a form of protection, and it bleeds over to racism.. There are triggers In our brain that tell us what's safe and not.. we see the color red that mean WARNNG/STOP/FIRE etc.. our environment teaches us what visually to connect to thought.. racism is the same!!

we will always have racism in all of us... It's the matter of how much ugly comes from it. That part of the brain is not ONLY bad but sure as hell can be.

 

[DuranDuran]

Charlamagne is a stubborn idiot... lol

It seems he likes to start mess similar to Wendy Williams, but I don't think that has anything to do with the bleaching accusations.