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If the Biggie verse on "Unbreakable" needed to be replaced with a living rapper, who would have you gone with?

wendijane said:
I know. I wanted a whole predominant song with Eve not just a remix . I know treach NBN was on the scream louder 95 remix and Jam 93. 🏆
Needed more. I love thinking about what could have been. 🫠
I'm not too interested in Prince but cool Eve got to work with one of the greats.
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Eve was on another Prince song called Hot Wit U on the Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic album from 1999. This was when he signed briefly with Arista. Prince wanted to get that Santana Supernatural success. But Clive Davis was fired not long after he signed Prince and L.A. Reid was put in Clive's place and Reid stopped the promotion on Prince's album. Some of the guest artists weren't really used in a noticable way anyway like on Santana's album or they weren't that current like Chuck D from Public Enemy. It was the last album he released under the Symbol name although the album had "produced by Prince" on the back cover. None of the other Symbol albums had that on it.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Both of those latter two sound pretty positive actually. The last one down right is.
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The second to last one calls it "as unsettling as a Tupac hologram". The very last one criticizes Drake's own vocals, implying that they don't mesh with MJ, meaning he shouldn't have done a posthumous collab with MJ.
 
Spaceship said:
The second to last one calls it "as unsettling as a Tupac hologram". The very last one criticizes Drake's own vocals, implying that they don't mesh with MJ, meaning he shouldn't have done a posthumous collab with MJ.
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But ultimately not as offensive. In a statement piece seemingly entirely critical of Drakes album. It's damming praise. The tone of the article is obnoxious anyway. Makes music seem like some sorta crusade you have to be on the right side of history on in order to say it's worth anyone's time or not. I hate music journalism.

The very last one implies that Drake is lazy and lacking in talent, and is significantly out of his depth and class, which is all true, because he is. The wholesale point of that Collab was to get a hit and it worked. Michael Jackson made me listen to Drake, and Drake got today's rapheads to listen to Michael Jackson. That's what it came down to. And that's all you need sometimes; but let's be real, Drake is better than Fats, and MJ would've definitely worked with Drake by now.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
But ultimately not as offensive.
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Not as offensive as the Tupac hologram, but still offensive according to the critic.

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
The very last one implies that Drake is lazy and lacking in talent, and is significantly out of his depth and class, which is all true, because he is.
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Meaning that he shouldn't done the collab according to the critic.

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
The wholesale point of that Collab was to get a hit and it worked.
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Not according to these critics, though.

The point is that Drake got flak for what he did and that's what happens when you sample a dead person's vocals.
 
Spaceship said:
Not as offensive as the Tupac hologram, but still offensive according to the critic.


Meaning that he shouldn't done the collab according to the critic.


Not according to these critics, though.

The point is that Drake got flak for what he did and that's what happens when you sample a dead person's vocals.
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Regardless, this is all faint. This was no uproar. This got no fuss, point is the Biggie verse sample gets absolutely no flack at all.
 
Spaceship said:
The point is that Drake got flak for what he did and that's what happens when you sample a dead person's vocals.
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I don't remember much negative talk about Free As A Bird & Real Love which was Paul McCartney, George Harrison, & Ringo Starr recording new music & vocals to John Lennon demos. Nor the Elvis Presley remixes A Little Less Conversation & Rubbernecking or even those Elvis concert tours in the 1990s with his original band members & background singers performing live to Elvis video footage/vocals. Same with the Natalie Cole duet albums with her father. All of those are technically sampling. I also recall The Grey Album by Danger Mouse getting good reviews in magazines. That wasn't an official release but it was The Beatles mixed with Jay-Z. That also had John Lennon's voice. George Harrison had passed a few years before it came out. Paul McCartney said he liked The Grey Album.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
The wholesale point of that Collab was to get a hit and it worked.
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I don't think Drake needs any help with that. He has close to 300 songs that charted on the Hot 100 and also has more Top 10s (Hot 100) than anyone else with currently 68.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Regardless, this is all faint. This was no uproar. This got no fuss, point is the Biggie verse sample gets absolutely no flack at all.
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It was from a quite obscure Shaq track. Not one of Biggie's hits.
But it was still lame to use the same vocals.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Regardless, this is all faint. This was no uproar.
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Doesn't need to cause an uproar to receive flack.
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
This got no fuss, point is the Biggie verse sample gets absolutely no flack at all.
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The Invincible album in general got flack and the Biggie sample was one of the many things the album was criticized for. That's not to say there was a big controversy over it, but it still wasn't a good look for MJ. There wasn't a huge controversy over MJ singing "The Lost Children", either, but he still got flak for it. And "Unbreakable" and "The Lost Children" certainly would have gotten even more criticism if they were released as singles like MJ originally planned.

Best to avoid criticism when you can. Get a living rapper instead of Biggie on "Unbreakable" and leave out "The Lost Children" altogether.

DuranDuran said:
I don't remember much negative talk about Free As A Bird & Real Love which was Paul McCartney, George Harrison, & Ringo Starr recording new music & vocals to John Lennon demos. Nor the Elvis Presley remixes A Little Less Conversation & Rubbernecking or even those Elvis concert tours in the 1990s with his original band members & background singers performing live to Elvis video footage/vocals. Same with the Natalie Cole duet albums with her father.
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All of those things got flak. They may have not gotten as much flak because they had involvement from close associates, friends, or relatives of the deceased person. But releasing new music with a dead person is always criticized as exploitation, regardless of who's working on it. Sony was criticized for releasing the "This Is It" single and movie just months after MJ's death, even though they got MJ's brothers to add their own vocals to the song.
 
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DuranDuran said:
I don't think Drake needs any help with that. He has close to 300 songs that charted on the Hot 100 and also has more Top 10s (Hot 100) than anyone else with currently 68.
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I don't care about Drake lol. If it was up to me he'd never work again

But he has been successful so whatever I guess.
 
Spaceship said:
The Invincible album in general got flack and the Biggie sample was one of the many things the album was criticized for.
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Everything MJ did after 1984 got flack. Everything everywhere gets flack. It's like society has decided that it is always time to complain. I'm quite sick of it. The people want to control things, fine, but have fun fighting over it.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Everything MJ did after 1984 got flack.
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He came to be known as eccentric, but his music was still well-received overall until History in 1995. Invincible came out six years later and is easily his most unsuccessful and polarizing album.
 
Spaceship said:
He came to be known as eccentric, but his music was still well-received overall until History in 1995. Invincible came out six years later and is easily his most unsuccessful and polarizing album.
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Blood on the Dance Floor is easily his most unsuccessful and polarizing album. Not a single single did well and it didn't get high kudos. Maybe argue over semantics about it, but still.

They were not kind to POST Thriller records retrospectively anyway.
 
Spaceship said:
All of those things got flak. They may have not gotten as much flak because they had involvement from close associates, friends, or relatives of the deceased person. But releasing new music with a dead person is always criticized as exploitation, regardless of who's working on it. Sony was criticized for releasing the "This Is It" single and movie just months after MJ's death, even though they got MJ's brothers to add their own vocals to the song.
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A lot of folks are not fans of sampling period, whether or not the act being sampled is alive or not. Others do not like remixes. Some do not like the idea of unreleased songs getting put out, even if nothing is done to them. Some do not like Christmas songs. People in the 1980s said Michael Jackson, Prince, Lionel Richie, Kool & The Gang, etc. sold out and watered down their music to get the mainstream white audience sales. Pretty much anything is gonna get trashed by somebody, especially with today's social media/internet.
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I don't care about Drake lol. If it was up to me he'd never work again

But he has been successful so whatever I guess.
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But your comment made it sound like Drake is like Rockwell or something and needed the help of Mike's voice to become popular. Drake has been all over the radio long before that track. I think Drake has been a thing since the TV show Degrassi High.
 
DuranDuran said:
But your comment made it sound like Drake is like Rockwell or something and needed the help of Mike's voice to become popular.
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Kinda?

I may have gone too far in a few places. I just generally resent him..he is, talented. He is a huge success. He did not need help getting a hit, but it was a mutually beneficial arrangement is my point. MJ got him an audience he might otherwise not have, And MJ vice-versa. I mainly said Drake was out of his depth,and he was; Michael Jackson versus Drake, no contest. MJ could've done "Don't Matter to Me" or "In My Feelings"; Drake could never do Billie Jean or They Don't Care About Us. That's why I love MJ, the 90s/2000s stuff he made that gets lambasted on here shows how ambitious he was.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Blood on the Dance Floor is easily his most unsuccessful and polarizing album. Not a single single did well and it didn't get high kudos. Maybe argue over semantics about it, but still.

They were not kind to POST Thriller records retrospectively anyway.
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As a fan, I found out about this album late in the day.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Drake could never do Billie Jean or They Don't Care About Us.
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Mike couldn't play like Miles Davis or do the Minnie Riperton high note. That has nothing to do with what is popular or becomes a hit single. They Don't Care About Us was banned from a lot of radio stations in the USA. So that hurt the popularity of it when it originally came out. On the other hand, You Are Not Alone was overplayed like Macarena & I Will Always Love You. You Are Not Alone had got radio airplay on some stations as an album track when Scream was still the active single. It became the most successful single from that album in the USA.
 
None of his solo Motown albums were commerical disasters like Invincible was, even though they didn't sell as much.

Selling 6-8m on a budget of $30m is pretty disastrous. His solo Motown albums did mostly alright for a child/teen star. Guess I should have specified adult solo studio albums, but it's easy to forget the Motown ones lol
 
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Spaceship said:
None of his solo Motown albums were commerical disasters like Invincible was, even though they didn't sell as much.

Selling 6-8m on a budget of $30m is pretty disastrous. His solo Motown albums were received alright for what they were.
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Well it wasn't going to recoup that without a tour or ongoing promotion. So it's pretty well established. And yet Sony continued working with him far longer. All the way up to Thriller 25, which surprisingly did pretty good.
 
5 day later- Still rootin for Treach & his boys. i know they were fortunate to work with M. Still wanted more.
 
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