Invincible appreciation thread

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

These old reviews are a joke. Cry the best track? REALLY? I like Cry myself...but it's not even in my top 5 for fav tracks from Invincible. It's about in the middle.

Top 5 Favs
1. Whatever Happens
2. Butterflies
3. Threatened
4. Break Of Dawn
5. Don't Walk Away

Top 5 least favs

1. Invincible
2. The Lost Children
3. Privacy
4. Heartbreaker
5. You Rock My World
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Mothership Connection said:
MJ didn't want to do this album initially but Sony pressured him. For that reason he might not have been as involved or thrilled with this project.
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Completely false. MJ started writing new songs for the album in 1997. Sony didn't pressure him at all. He signed a contract with them in 1991 to release 3 studio albums. However Sony pressured the album release date - but that happened with every album from Thriller to HIStory. MJ was very much involved in every aspect of the album.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Saw this on the iTunes Store homepage just now:
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Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

i am the only one to rediscover "heartbreaker" each time i play it loud ?
 
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Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

^^the percussions on this one are great.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

the background vocals on "Heartbreaker" are so amazing, especially in the part that comes before the rap ("and what will she say?") - listen carefully. I also love how Michael's "hmmmmm" is part of the instrumental :cheeky:
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

i love the bridge where the music seems to destroy itself, and Michael's ad-lib: "I got enough babey" at 3:59 min in the backround is simply awesome!
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

It was marketed as a comeback album though. "Heartbreaker" is a great track, should have been a single. The production distracts from the great backing vocals and harmonies but all together it's a great, futuristic track! Love it.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

For real though, MJ's vocals in almost ALL the bridges on Invincible are so damn stunning. In Heartbreaker, it was one of the best.

Shivers everytime I hear "I never thooought that I..."/ "But everyone toooold me so"/ "I'll find a waaaaaay to go"
Love it!
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

J5master said:
For real though, MJ's vocals in almost ALL the bridges on Invincible are so damn stunning. In Heartbreaker, it was one of the best.

Shivers everytime I hear "I never thooought that I..."/ "But everyone toooold me so"/ "I'll find a waaaaaay to go"
Love it!
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Love the bridge on Invincible also..."Now someday I'll have to prove all that I said I would do..etc..."
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

The problem with Michael Jackson's "INVINCIBLE" album is that humankind,
as we know it, can't grasp that much perfection.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

CherubimII said:
The problem with Michael Jackson's "INVINCIBLE" album is that humankind,
as we know it, can't grasp that much perfection.
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No, the problem with Invincible is that it fades when compared to ALL his previous solo works.

And before anyone says it, yes I know that's just an opinion.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

But why is that a problem exactly? LOL So what if it doesn't match the other albums, that doesn't make it any less awesome in its own right. Why must a body of art be compared all the time to determine worth/quality?
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

J5master said:
But why is that a problem exactly? LOL So what if it doesn't match the other albums, that doesn't make it any less awesome in its own right. Why must a body of art be compared all the time to determine worth/quality?
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Well, for me it does. I can listen to 97% of tracks from OTW -> History without skipping, and even the ones I do skip are still pretty good. But Invincible contains a lot of filler and that's my problem. It still has some tracks that I love, but nothing that would come close to being on Bad or Dangerous.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Not to say that is your opinion, lol...but the point im trying to make is...why can't it just be that Invincible is not your cup of tea? Why does it have to be a matter of it being better or worse than his other albums? Thats really what I'm getting at. People are so hung up over comparing everything to his previous works - especially Thriller - that the albums can never just stand on its own. It always has to be compared to something else.

For instance, if I don't like a dish from a restaurant - I don't say "I don't like this dish because it's not like the other dish I had last week that was completely different and had different ingredients." Or "I don't like this dish because this other dish from the menu was better." Or "I don't like this dish because this other completely different dish - I was able to eat it with no problems." No, you don't like the dish because something about THAT dish didn't jive with you. Not because of another dish you had before.

I think that's one of the reasons why invincible gets stomped on so much. Because the criticisms always seem to go back to previous albums. IMO i think its unnecessary.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

J5master said:
Not to say that is your opinion, lol...but the point im trying to make is...why can't it just be that Invincible is not your cup of tea? Why does it have to be a matter of it being better or worse than his other albums? Thats really what I'm getting at. People are so hung up over comparing everything to his previous works - especially Thriller - that the albums can never just stand on its own. It always has to be compared to something else.

For instance, if I don't like a dish from a restaurant - I don't say "I don't like this dish because it's not like the other dish I had last week that was completely different and had different ingredients." Or "I don't like this dish because this other dish from the menu was better." Or "I don't like this dish because this other completely different dish - I was able to eat it with no problems." No, you don't like the dish because something about THAT dish didn't jive with you. Not because of another dish you had before.

I think that's one of the reasons why invincible gets stomped on so much. Because the criticisms always seem to go back to previous albums. IMO i think its unnecessary.
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Fair enough. But if you went to that restaurant previously and everything was exquisite, you'd likely to say, 'It wasn't bad but nothing like the previous 5 times'.

It's perfectly normal to compare to what's done before, that's life from everything to your school report to how you're treated at work. I agree though that if Invincible was a debut album it may have been treated better, but then it probably wouldn't have sold 11m mainly on the strength of its predecessors so it's swings & roundabouts.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

analogue said:
Rolling Stone gave Dangerous 2 stars
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When it came out they gave it 4 stars. It was in their 2004 album guide that they suddenly downgraded it to 2 stars. I guess it had to do with other reasons than with the music (MJ being on trial, being unpopular at the time etc.).
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

To me the problem with Invincible is that much of it does not have that MJ-feel to it. I think it was a mistake to work with so many co-writers and co-producers. That typical MJ-style and feel that is so characteristic on all of MJ's other albums is kind of lost here. But his vocals were amazing. Whatever Happens gives me the chills.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

I think Don't Walk Away sounded like a new Evulotion Step of Michael's music.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

To touch on the topic of Invincible being compared to his past work, hey, honestly I see why you would compare. It only makes sense to. Invincible is an amazing album with quite a few filler tracks that needed to be cut down to a 12-13 track album. It's fair to say that because we know what Michael is capable of based on his past work, this just doesn't match up. For example, Britney's last album Britney Jean was a decent album but because people look at her as always being ahead of the pop music trends, the album was looked at as trash because we KNOW she is capable of better. Not to say that I think Mike didn't put his full efforts in this album, but trust me when I say if he cut out the filler the album would have a way different reputation. Because with the songs that actually hit, they HIT. But that tends to get overlooked when there's a bunch of other songs that weigh that down (privacy, cry, etc) and also the ratio of ballads to uptempo being very uneven almost 3:1
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Invincible is my favorite MJ album and i'm a fan since 1983...
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

loka said:
Invincible is my favorite MJ album and i'm a fan since 1983...
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And this is just it. One person's filler is another person's favorite of all time.

And that is what invincible was made for. The simple countryish ballad is not for everyone but it is for someone. The driving angry guitars is not for everyone but it is for someone. It is an all range album. Perhaps it is not meant to be perfectly cohesive.

Also do not underestimate the power of good promotion. There have been songs I wasn't crazy about (not because they are bad but they didn't speak to me for whatever reason) and I saw the video and the song began to grow on me because the imagery that went with it added insight to the vision of the song. It allowed for the song to be presented in a different way. 2bad from history as it was integrated in ghosts did that for me. The live performance of she's out of my life made me appreciate that song better. Etc etc.

And unlike all of mj's other albums, if we want to compare, invincible did not have that.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

I love discussing what people like/don't like about MJ's albums.

But it does speak volumes that you'll barely find a bad word against OTW, Thriller, Bad & Dangerous.

What does irk me though is the impression I get from some that if they adore Invincible then they are somehow a superior fan.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Tony R said:
But it does speak volumes that you'll barely find a bad word against OTW, Thriller, Bad & Dangerous.
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I think both Dangerous and HIStory suffer from same thing as Invincible but in less capacity. And that is being too long, filler songs to give fans as much material as can fit on a CD and cohesiveness. But of course all those things are more apparent on Invincible.

For Off The Wall I think the album is brilliant and cohesive, just like Thriller - but judging just the quality of the songs - then the album is hugely overrated and if you take out Don't Stop Til You Get Enough which is one of the best songs ever - you'll get average album. That's why it's my least favourite MJ album. But of course it is his debut album as a solo artist, so I see why it is so important and critically acclaimed.
 
So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Tony R said:
I love discussing what people like/don't like about MJ's albums.

But it does speak volumes that you'll barely find a bad word against OTW, Thriller, Bad & Dangerous.

What does irk me though is the impression I get from some that if they adore Invincible then they are somehow a superior fan.
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Na, admittedly I get defensive when it comes to invincible because it's usually the opposite. If you LIKE invincible more than other albums then you're not just a lower class of a fan but you're nuts and have poor tastes lol.

And like I said before I think part of the reason his other albums got more praise is due to other reasons besides the quality of the album.

When you go against the grain or try something new or different or not "correct" to the standard (in the case of history with less "pop" songs and in the case of invincible where he tried to incorporate a larger range of music) - you don't always get the praise you did before.

Especially when said album didn't get the support the other albums did. Also the general public wouldn't dare criticize thriller or otw after the history and the prestige it has gained over the years even if they aren't even crazy about them. Plus they are both connected to the period that was before MJ got "weird" so it is popular to praise those albums. There are so many factors that go into it.
 
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