Transcripts from the interview:
MORGAN: It's hard to imagine but it's been three and a half years since Michael Jackson died. Millions of people around the world loved him. But of course no one knew him quite the way than his own father did.
Joseph Jackson rarely gives interviews, but he joins me tonight exclusively, along with Deiter Wiesner, his former manager.
Welcome to you both.
JOSEPH W. JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FATHER: Thank you.
MORGAN: So, Joe, I've interviewed almost every single member of your family, your wife, your sons, your daughters, Michael. And finally I get to interview the boss.
JACKSON: Yes, the boss. Yes.
MORGAN: The boss.
JACKSON: That's great. Yes. I'm glad to have you interviewing me, because I'm going all over the world. I want all over the world to know me.
MORGAN: Everyone says the same thing about you. Very tough, but you had to be. That you wanted the best for your family and you decided right from the start you were going to be firm, tough when you had to be disciplined and do what it took to give them the lives that many of them have since enjoyed. How do you respond to that?
JACKSON: Well, I had to be like that way because during those times it's hard and you had a lot of games there, you know, in the area where we were living.
MORGAN: This is Gary, Indiana.
JACKSON: Gary, Indiana, and I had to make sure that they didn't get into any type of trouble and things of that sort.
MORGAN: What your children have told me, almost all of them, is that you found it hard, because you were tough with them and disciplined, and wanted to me, you found it hard to be too demonstrative, to tell them too much that you love them. And some of them found that quite difficult to deal with.
JACKSON: Well --
MORGAN: Let me play you an example. I interviewed Janet and she said this. Watch this clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANET JACKSON, SINGER: One time I tried to call him dad.
MORGAN: What happened. J. JACKSON: He said no, I'm Joseph. You call me Joseph. I'm Joseph to you. When your father tells you one time, you don't do it again. I always called him Joseph.
MORGAN: Sad, isn't it?
J. JACKSON: Yeah, it is. I wish our relationship was different but I know that he loves me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: So come on, why wouldn't you let your daughter call you dad?
JACKSON: Well you had all those kids running around hollering around and hollering, dad, dad, dad, you know, and it gets to be -- it sounds kind of funny to me. But I didn't care too much about what they called me as long as they were able to listen to me and what I had to tell them, you know, in order to make their life successful. This was the main thing.
My kids was brought up in a way so they respect people, and they never was on drugs. They never went to jail, wasn't in no gangs or nothing. They were brought up professionally. And it was nice, yes.
MORGAN: But do you have any regrets that you may have been a little bit too tough on some of them?
JACKSON: Well, I'm glad I was tough, because look what I came out with. I came out with some kids that everybody loved all over the world. And they treated everybody right. You know Michael, he was a nice guy. But the world don't know anything too much about Michael as far as how he was brought up.
But He was brought up -- I made sure that he respected the older people, yes.
MORGAN: Tell me about the young Michael and your relationship with him.
JACKSON: Michael was the type of kid -- you know, he was a good kid and very easy to learn. One thing once and he could really do it just like the person that he listened to doing it. By him being that way, he was able to be Michael Jackson, because he looked good on stage. When he performed, everybody loved the way that he did it because he was that good.
MORGAN: You physically disciplined your kids. Do you parents today are too soft on their children? Do you think there is a lack of respect because of that.
JACKSON: Yes, they are too soft. One of the reasons I say that is because kids now a days are killing their parents, in some cases. And the parents say let's get into this beating thing. There is no such thing as beating a kid. You hit them or punch them for something they did, and they will remember that. They remember it in such a way they won't do it again. That's the way I was.
MORGAN: It is not like that anymore. You know, many people say, well, you know, you can't hit a child. I interviewed your wife Katherine and she said this about you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHERINE JACKSON, WIFE OF JOE JACKSON: I didn't think he was too tough. But back in those days, everybody raises their children the same. If you did something wrong, that was terribly wrong, you got a scolding for it and you also got a licking, as they called it.
But today you can't do that. So Michael looked back at those times and he said he was abused.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: In those days, kids was real bad. And the parents should have made sure what I did, made sure that my kids was good kids, made sure that they understand what I was trying to do. Since Michael got grown and has kids of his own, he understands what I was going through with it.
MORGAN: Let's take a short break. Let's come back and talk about your life as a grandfather. You're a grandfather to Michael's three children, as well as others. I want to talk to you about whether you are as tough with them as you were with your own children. I suspect you're not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PARIS JACKSON, DAUGHTER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Ever since I was born, daddy has been the best father you can ever imagine. And I just wanted to say I love him so much.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Perhaps the most touching moment for many at Michael Jackson's memorial, the heartbreak of his daughter, Paris. Back with me now exclusively is Michael's father, Joseph Jackson, and his former manager, Dieter Wiesner.
Tough for the kids that, Joe, more than anybody, I felt. It was such a public thing. And poor Paris, you know, she's just a young girl who has lost her father. Very, very hard. What could you say to her, for somebody who has been through so much yourself? What would you say to her afterwards?
JACKSON: Well, Paris is -- even Michael said, she a piece of work, you know, because, most girls are hard to raise. Piers, they are hard to raise. They are more harder than boys. But she is a nice girl. And most girls take to their father anyway.
But she -- she -- she is a good girl. And you have to work with her a little bit too.
MORGAN: Are you as tough with Michael's kids, because he is not around, as you were with Michael and his siblings?
JACKSON: Oh, no. They are my grand kids. They be glad -- I was just with them yesterday. Paris wouldn't get out of the bed. She was still in the bed. Prince and Blanket was there. As matter of fact, Blanket was making a video himself.
MORGAN: Really?
JACKSON: Yes.
MORGAN: When you see them, does it take you back to when your kids were young? Do you see Michael in them?
JACKSON: In Blanket I do.
MORGAN: Really?
JACKSON: Yes. In Blanket, I see Michael. Yes. But they are good kids. They are being handled well. And Katherine is really looking after those kids. And they love their grandma. They really love her. And they obey her, too.
MORGAN: Where were you when you heard that Michael had died?
JACKSON: I was -- I was in Las Vegas. I got a call -- Piers, I got a call from a fan. And he says, Mr. Jackson, something is wrong. I see ambulance there at Michael's place. And the ambulance took off and the fire department is following the ambulance. Something is wrong.
MORGAN: What did you do when you heard that, after you took the call?
JACKSON: Well, the saddest part about the whole thing was, Michael tried to reach me He says call my father. This was before he passed. He would know how to get me out of this. But they didn't get in touch with me. They said they couldn't find me. But I was right there.
And what bothers me, when he called for my help, I couldn't help him.
MORGAN: What was your relationship like with Michael towards the end? Because there was a sense that he was surrounded by people that were kind of keeping the family away, and that the family couldn't get to him how they wanted to.
JACKSON: That is very true. He was like -- well, they treated him like Howard Hughes. They couldn't -- family couldn't get to him like they should have. And that was very wrong for that to happen. But I guess that they had a motive to keep family away. But I guess because they were saying to the fact that too many families were hanging around, may cause some type of a disturbance in what we're trying to do with this young man. Yes.
MORGAN: This huge concert tour that he had lined up, 50 concerts -- knowing him as you did, do you think he was physically capable of doing that number of shows? Did you know he was doing that number of shows?
JACKSON: Yes, I did know he was doing that number of shows. There was a reason why. There was a motive for those shows. Because Michael was going to take that money and build a children's hospital. That's he wanted to do, build for all the sick kids. He needed to make sure that he had the right type of help.
MORGAN: When you think about Michael and the children like that, I can't not ask you about the court cases which scandalized his later years. As his father, how did you feel when he was accused of abusing children?
JACKSON: Well, you know, that -- there was a reason why that happened. They were trying to take control over Michael so that Michael paid out a lot of money. What is it, something like 22 million dollars, you know, to keep the (inaudible) done.
MORGAN: Do you wish he had never done that?
JACKSON: I wish he had never done that. But since he done it, the media, you know, didn't grab it as much as they did because it was hushed up. But Michael was afraid of the media, because they would never get nothing right, you know.
MORGAN: Did Michael, at any stage -- did his behavior ever worry you around children? The reason I ask you is a lot of people felt here is a man in his 40s -- mid 40s, having sleep overs with young boys. And most people would think that is inappropriate. Michael wasn't a normal guy. Everybody knows that.
But did you ever worry that the perception of what he was doing wasn't good for him or his image?
JACKSON: Well, Piers, Michael was a big old kid himself. He was still -- had the mind of a kid. But he loved kids so much. And the things that he didn't have, he tried to help them to have it.
MORGAN: You never saw anything that concerned you?
JACKSON: There's nothing concerning.
MORGAN: You never felt --
JACKSON: We knew Michael. We knew our son. We knew how we raised him. We knew that, yes.
MORGAN: Let's take another break. Let's come back and talk more about Michael, more about his legacy, more about him as a businessman. I'll talk to you about that after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Back with me now exclusively is Michael Jackson's father, Joseph, and his former manager, Dieter Wiesner. Dieter, we'll come to Michael's business side in a moment. I just want to ask you one thing, Joe. Do you wish you had been able to do more for Michael towards the end? Do you wish you had been able to get in there, get him away from these drugs, get him away from the --
JACKSON: I tried. I tried. I tried very hard. And many times. But I couldn't get to him. Just like I told you earlier, they treated him just like Howard Hughes. You couldn't --
MORGAN: I find that a fascinating analogy, Howard Hughes. I studied a lot of Howard Hughes' life. And by the end, he was completely protected. I mean, you couldn't get past the walls to get near him. And it seemed like Michael, in his last few months, that was his life too.
JACKSON: Yeah. But what -- but that is the way it was. It was hard to get to him. And maybe, you know, his mother could get to him better than me, because naturally, you know -- Katherine is a very good woman and I love her much. I still do. And right now, they are trying to get my wife to divorce me. Yes.
MORGAN: Really?
JACKSON: Yes. But that will never happen. The people that surrounded --
MORGAN: When you say they, Joe, who are you talking about?
MORGAN: People that surrounded them, and around my wife, people that was involved with her.
MORGAN: Are these family members or --
JACKSON: Some are and some are not. None of my kids, no. They are not like that. It's other people that's around.
MORGAN: And they are trying to get you divorced so they can get their hands on Michael's money? Or what is it?
JACKSON: Well, they've got motives, you know. If they get Michael's mother away from me or me away from their mother, then they got her free. Right now, I'm only in their way. I'm the strong one. But the point is this: there will never be a divorce. I was with her last night.
MORGAN: Do you still love each other?
JACKSON: Of course. Yeah. If I didn't, there would be some divorces going on. But there will never be a divorce, Piers. She will tell you that.
MORGAN: Well, she did say the same thing.
JACKSON: Yeah. Yeah. But --
MORGAN: The problem is that Michael's empire is hugely valuable and will always attract sharks. Let me bring you in here, because you were a business manager for Michael for a very long time. You've brought some fascinating tapes. These are audiotapes. I want to go through some of this, because I once interviewed Michael in the late '90s. And I was struck that there was another Michael Jackson here, the businessman.
And I want to play a tape before I come to you. This is him discussing with you, I think, about a plan to buy Marvel, the comic business, back in 2001 or '02, I think it was. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
M. JACKSON: We could easily go in to Universal and buy it. We would own Jaws, E.T., Close Encounters, you know, all of the classics from Universal, own all of that stuff. And that would allow us to do a Universal -- I mean, a channel -- a Marvel Channel, not only the Marvel characters but Marvel films like the catalog.
We can do anything we want from restaurants to retail, theme parks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Now, you actually got the financing in place, I believe, for this deal. Then came the scandal court cases and it all got put back on the back burner. Disney ended up buying Marvel and doing exactly what Michael had predicted, and making a fortune at it. Tell me about this.
WIESNER: That was the second part of his life. He did want to do this. And he knew exactly every single detail, what he wants to do. And he was absolutely right. Because he was saying, so the music career -- I cannot do more than what I did. That's it.
And I have the Beatles catalog on one side. If buy this Marvel catalog, he has second part -- a big part in his life. He would be the richest person in the world.
MORGAN: Yes. He understood the power of owning rights to things.
WIESNER: Right.
MORGAN: I remember Paul McCartney giving an interview saying he couldn't even play some of his own songs because Michael had bought them. But that -- he realized the power of publishing rights, which is to say, in music, in movies, in television, in all of that.
There were lot of reports when Katherine went missing for a few days that some of the members of the family, the siblings had all fallen out with each other. What's the truth? JACKSON: The truth is that they had a big fight up there. I wasn't there. So it would have been much different if I had been there. But you don't cut a tree down by cutting the top off of it. I don't care how tall the tree is, by cutting top of it down. You start at the bottom.
MORGAN: Michael's three children, how are things going to work out for them? Are they going to have a lot of money? Or are you going to try and protect that, make sure they are not too rich too young?
JACKSON: I don't think you can get too rich too young. You can get rich and be young, young rich kids. You know, a trust is being set up for them. And I think that just started just recently, you know. But they do get the moneys, you know, going into a trust, retirement type situation. I don't know how much. But I know it's something.
MORGAN: Let me play you one last clip of Michael talking, which is very prophetic, given what we've just been discussing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
M. JACKSON: We don't want to die knowing that we didn't accomplish our goals. I want to die knowing that I did it. I did everything that I wanted to do and I did it my way, you know? That's it. We changed the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: What would you like Michael's legacy to be?
JACKSON: I'd like his legacy to be what he wanted to be. I want everybody to care about him and to love him and keep doing the things that he wanted to do. He wanted to make people happy all over the world. You see, Piers, Michael's situation -- if the world was like Michael, there would never be any wars. Everybody would get along. That's the type of kid he was.
MORGAN: Joe, it's been a real pleasure talking to you. It's fascinating. You're one of the most iconic fathers in the history of American entertainment. And I've never had a chance to sit down with you. I think you've been very honest.
JACKSON: Am I ending up with this now or what?
MORGAN: What else would you like to say?
JACKSON: I've got a documentary coming out and it's a big one.
MORGAN: Tell me about it.
JACKSON: It's a big one. It's called "Journey in My Shoes." And the reason it ain't out yet because I'm making sure everything is right. It goes all the way back to the Native-American family.
MORGAN: And what is the thesis of the documentary?
JACKSON: "Journey in My Shoes".
MORGAN: Tell me what it's about.
JACKSON: It's about my life story.
MORGAN: Right from start to finish.
JACKSON: Right from start to finish, coming up.
MORGAN: Joe, it's been a riveting interview. Thank you so much. I wish we could talk for longer, but we've run out of time. But it's been a great insight into your son. I'm so glad that you came on.
JACKSON: I didn't get a chance to promo my other stuff.
:rofl:
MORGAN: Joe, good to see you. Thank you so much.
: Thank you.
MORGAN: Listening to the tapes was fascinating. And he was a complex man, Michael, in many ways, a great businessman, amazing entertainer, and a great son, I think. And someone who had a father who maybe got a pretty rough rap over the years, perhaps unfairly. Joe, thank you very much.
JACKSON: You take care, man.
MORGAN: Thank you.
Joe Jackson and Dieter Wiesner. And we'll be right back.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1301/30/pmt.01.html
