KJ vs AEG - Appeal Thread

[Bubs]

AEG gets sued many times but the actual killer who was responsibly of Michael's death only once, and only because state pressed charges, no actual person.

What a f...ed up world we living :scratch: Money talks while killers walks.

 

[Tygger]

^ No. One was a criminal trial while the other was a civil trial.

Adding for clarification: many individuals can originate a civil trial as they did against AEG however; they cannot originate a criminal trial.

Individuals who are victims of a crime, such as the Jackson family, could not originate a criminal trial against the doctor. Only the State of California could do that.

 

[Victory22]

:lmao: @ the Jackson's couldn't initiate a criminal trial. That was a good one. The Jackson never do anything for Michael unless there is lot's of money involved.

 

[Tygger]

Victory22, your response is baffling.

It is indeed fact an individual(s)/victim(s) of a crime cannot originate a criminal trial.

 

[barbee0715]

:lmao: @ the Jackson's couldn't initiate a criminal trial. That was a good one. The Jackson never do anything for Michael unless there is lot's of money involved.

No, Tygger is correct. Only the State could initiate CRIMINAL proceedings against Murray-based on their police investigation, etc.

The Jacksons could have sued Murray in civil court, but they waived that right, remember?

 

[Victory22]

No, Tygger is correct. Only the State could initiate CRIMINAL proceedings against Murray-based on their police investigation, etc.

The Jacksons could have sued Murray in civil court, but they waived that right, remember?

Yes, I know the Jackson's or any lone person can initiate criminal proceedings and I don't think they would go after Murray even if they could without money being involved. It's just funny to see how Tygger tries to cover for their lack of love, decency and care for MJ.

 

[barbee0715]

Yes, I know the Jackson's or any lone person can initiate criminal proceedings and I don't think they would go after Murray even if they could without money being involved. It's just funny to see how Tygger tries to cover for their lack of love, decency and care for MJ.

Well, you're both right. Only the state can initiate a criminal trial.
And the Jacksons or family members can initiate a civil trial-but I'm sure they waived that right because AEG has much deeper pockets-Murray has no money. I'm very disappointed that they did that to be honest. Very disappointed.

 

[Victory22]

Well, you're both right. Only the state can initiate a criminal trial.
And the Jacksons or family members can initiate a civil trial-but I'm sure they waived that right because AEG has much deeper pockets-Murray has no money. I'm very disappointed that they did that to be honest. Very disappointed.

Yes, I was beyond disappointed by the Jackson’s actions regarding Murdering Murray. Then listening to Tito, Joe, Jermaine, LaToya and others calling him “Just the fall guy” and talking about how they forgive him was completely nauseating. Compare that with the ferocity in which they have pursued AEG and it’s clear they only care about money not justice for MJ.

 

[Tygger]

Barbee0715, Victory22, it is interesting that I posted a fact and you both felt the need to twist the intention of that fact only so you could express your distaste with the Jackson family.

Lest we forget, AEG waived their right to restitution as well. It could be that action is more acceptable to some because AEG did not suffer any lost; emotional or financial. They did not lose a love one and they did not lose any monies from Michael’s passing. In fact, AEG profited from Michael’s passing through the TII project. The resulting movie featured Michael participating in the rehearsals he preferred not participating in despite the schedule placed upon him by Phillips and the doctor who killed him.

Victory22, this is my view: I believe Katherine did her best to discover why she lost her son. It is simply not acceptable to know a loved one passed from acute propofol intoxication without knowing the circumstances surrounding that passing and the actions leading to that day. The AEG civil trial exposed much about her son’s last days. I personally would not want to be in her place.

 

[barbee0715]

No Tygger. I was not explaining this in order to twist anything. There is a difference in a criminal trial than a civil trial as you know, and who can pursue them.
Victory had it mixed up. And I know that AEG could have sued Murray and I've thought about that a lot, but I think your reasoning behind it is exactly why they didn't.

I did state my own disappointment over them not suing Murray for any kind of restitution because IMO this would prevent him from making any kind of money off Michael's and continuing to destroy his good name. I would do it in a heartbeat for my child. I wouldn't want him dragged through any more dirt. He's had enough. Way more than enough. Mothers protect their children.

She would have won and there would be no more books. No more paid interviews. Much like Goldman did for his son against OJ Simpson.

Had she gone after Murray, I'm sure all of AEGs bad behavior would have come out in that trial anyway and she would have learned about those last days.

 

[Tygger]

Barbee0715, I did not misunderstand your post. As rude as it may sound, if you only said I was correct, it may have been mistaken for acceptance of some action by some Jackson family member. No worries.

Restitution has been discussed ad nauseam and I have nothing to add; I would be repeating my views. The doctor has not profited from Michael’s name since his release.

I personally would not equate Katherine’s actions to not protecting the son she lost. There is no protocol for grief and I support her actions.

It is not true that what was discovered in the civil trial against AEG would have been discovered in a possible civil trial against the doctor. Evidence would mirror the criminal trial evidence.

 

[Bubs]

Geez:doh: I know damn well that only state can proceed with criminal charges but civil suit is different.
Murray's name wasn't in any civil suit, only AEG and CM really killed Michael, whether some people believe it or not:smilerolleyes:

As for KJ doing her best to discover why she lost her son - really!
Lets not talk crap and make up things to protect Saint Katherine. KJ offered to settle the case twice before the trial even started. Opening statements for trial was read 28 April 2013, but KJ offered to settle the case January and March. So much for discovering anything if AEG had settled.

Edited to add, dropping insurance claim is not the same as dropping restitution.

 

[Victory22]

No Tygger. I was not explaining this in order to twist anything. There is a difference in a criminal trial than a civil trial as you know, and who can pursue them.
Victory had it mixed up. And I know that AEG could have sued Murray and I've thought about that a lot, but I think your reasoning behind it is exactly why they didn't.

I did state my own disappointment over them not suing Murray for any kind of restitution because IMO this would prevent him from making any kind of money off Michael's and continuing to destroy his good name. I would do it in a heartbeat for my child. I wouldn't want him dragged through any more dirt. He's had enough. Way more than enough. Mothers protect their children.

She would have won and there would be no more books. No more paid interviews. Much like Goldman did for his son against OJ Simpson.

Had she gone after Murray, I'm sure all of AEGs bad behavior would have come out in that trial anyway and she would have learned about those last days.

No barbee0715 I didn't have anything mixed up at all. I said exactly what I wanted to say fully knowing about how criminal law works.

 

[Victory22]

Barbee0715, I did not misunderstand your post. As rude as it may sound, if you only said I was correct, it may have been mistaken for acceptance of some action by some Jackson family member. No worries.

Restitution has been discussed ad nauseam and I have nothing to add; I would be repeating my views. The doctor has not profited from Michael’s name since his release.

I personally would not equate Katherine’s actions to not protecting the son she lost. There is no protocol for grief and I support her actions.

It is not true that what was discovered in the civil trial against AEG would have been discovered in a possible civil trial against the doctor. Evidence would mirror the criminal trial evidence.

Have you forgotten that Katherine could have still filed a civil case against AEG and gone after Murray in a civil case as well? The only thing that would have been different is she wouldn't have been able to ask for the money amount she wanted. That's why it feels as if her motives were more about greed rather than grief.

 

[Justthefacts]

And Katherine Jackson did say the reason they turned down restitution was financial so...

 

[Bubs]

And Katherine Jackson did say the reason they turned down restitution was financial so...

Thank you.

Seemingly we should ignore what KJ herself said, and make up some stories that KJ really wanted to find out why MJ died:smilerolleyes:

This trial was nothing but despicable blackmail attempt squeeze money of anyone else but the killer himself.

 

[Tygger]

Bubs, Victory22, you authored your posts, not me. It is clear neither of you knew the difference but, used the opportunity to express your distaste for insert Jackson family member here.

I have already said my views regarding restitution approximately three years or more prior in the appropriate thread and they do not align with yours. And?

Edited to add, dropping insurance claim is not the same as dropping restitution.

???

Restitution attempts to make whole. AEG decided to forego restitution and profit with the TII project.

 

[Tygger]

And Katherine Jackson did say the reason they turned down restitution was financial so...

Just a reminder: that referred to the doctor's ability to raise his children. Most media outlets and some fan ignore that as it did not align with the greed theory. I would also have to be reminded who the "they" were as I believe she said it was her decision.

By the way, terms of a settlement may have included sealed documents and the plaintiffs wanted the trial as public as possible.

 

[passy001]

Restitution attempts to make whole. AEG decided to forego restitution and profit with the TII project.

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It was a joint venture with the MJ estate, which KJ is a beneficiary.

 

[Bubs]

Tygger, you don't get it and you are very much ill informed.

When you have insurance claim, you do not call it restitution, capish?

For people who actually believe what Tygger writes, in case you are not aware of this AEG dropping insurance claim, just google AEG drops insurance claim. Don't use AEG drops restitution claim, you get no search results with those words.

 

[Tygger]

Passy001, Bubs, surely you did not forget the details of those events?

You may want to review the legal definition of restitution. You may also note AEG was asked why they did not pursue restitution for themselves as Michael was their business partner. They were made whole by the Estate who reimbursed them for cost including tour costs and the Lloyds' life insurance policy value. (That is why AEG was removed as defendants versus Lloyds'.) They also profited from the TII project.

Everything I posted is fact in the subforum for the civil trial for your review.

 

[krikzil]

^^You mean all the assertions that didn't come to pass? Like KJ winning?

Anywho, we are all aware that individuals can't bring criminal charges.

We are all also aware Katherine Jackson refused the criminal restitution she AND THE CHILDREN were entitled to and would have received without any effort on her part save saying "yes".

Deflection about AEG doesn't change or excuse HER actions in bringing this civil suit. AEG is a business; Katherine is his mother.

 

[Justthefacts]

Just a reminder: that referred to the doctor's ability to raise his children. Most media outlets and some fan ignore that as it did not align with the greed theory. I would also have to be reminded who the "they" were as I believe she said it was her decision.

By the way, terms of a settlement may have included sealed documents and the plaintiffs wanted the trial as public as possible.

**** him and his ability to raise his kids. This man killed her son and couldn't care less about it. Had Michael's estate not sent him a cease and desist letter he would be talking shit about him. Oh and of course she wanted the trial public, she wanted the world to know her son's medical issues. She wanted the world to know he struggled with pain killers at times. She wanted us to see him laying on an autopsy table again. And guess what she lost

 

[Tygger]

Krizkil, Justthefacts, no, not everyone knew and that is why I responded as such to Bubs' post. Fortunately, it is clear now.

The subforum includes articles and tweets from court which is what I stated in my posts. Those are facts, not opinions which is what posters are responding to me with. This is also a discussion had at length at the time.

By the way, it is a fact that it was decided to publicize the cease and desist letter. It is also a fact the beneficiaries and AEG were eligible for restitution and they both waived it. It is also fact the beneficiaries which includes Michael's children were not successful in the civil trial.

 

[Justthefacts]

It doesn't matter that it was published the bottom line is the estate has done more to protect Michael Jackson then the mother who birthed him and the family who claim to love him. That includes making sure his killer does not profit from killing him.

 

[Victory22]

Passy001, Bubs, surely you did not forget the details of those events?

You may want to review the legal definition of restitution. You may also note AEG was asked why they did not pursue restitution for themselves as Michael was their business partner. They were made whole by the Estate who reimbursed them for cost including tour costs and the Lloyds' life insurance policy value. (That is why AEG was removed as defendants versus Lloyds'.) They also profited from the TII project.

Everything I posted is fact in the subforum for the civil trial for your review.

Tygger, we are all aware that AEG is not a charity. They went into the TII venture with Michael to make MONEY. Using the fact that they recouped their loses and made profit nowhere near what they stood to make had Michael survived has nothing to do with why the so called loving parents and siblings of Michael chose to let Murray off the hook. No matter how you spin it the family exposed their fake concern or MJ.

 

[Victory22]

Just a reminder: that referred to the doctor's ability to raise his children. Most media outlets and some fan ignore that as it did not align with the greed theory. I would also have to be reminded who the "they" were as I believe she said it was her decision.

By the way, terms of a settlement may have included sealed documents and the plaintiffs wanted the trial as public as possible.

I have never in my life until Katherine's alibi heard of the mother of a murder victim worrying about the killers ability to support the kids of his baby mamas.

 

[Tygger]

Appeal anyone??


Justthefacts, Victory22, while I appreciate your responses containing your views, I simply do not share them and I did not before, during, and after the civil trial. My post stated the facts as they were.

By the way, the facts are restitution was rejected by the Michael’s parents, their lawyers, and lawyers for Michael’s children. No sibling of Michael's was involved.

I have never in my life until Katherine's alibi heard of the mother of a murder victim worrying about the killers ability to support the kids of his baby mamas.

I am not aware of any other mother who lost her son because of the negligence of a doctor the son’s business partner(s) hired. Provided such mothers do exist, I will not assume they all accepted restitution and rejected possible civil trials against the business partner(s).

 

[Victory22]

Appeal anyone??


Justthefacts, Victory22, while I appreciate your responses containing your views, I simply do not share them and I did not before, during, and after the civil trial. My post stated the facts as they were.

By the way, the facts are restitution was rejected by the Michael’s parents, their lawyers, and lawyers for Michael’s children. No sibling of Michael's was involved.



I am not aware of any other mother who lost her son because of the negligence of a doctor the son’s business partner(s) hired. Provided such mothers do exist, I will not assume they all accepted restitution and rejected possible civil trials against the business partner(s).

Oh, ok right! I forgot that mothers change their natural emotions and get real sentimental toward their sons murderers when the concert promoter hired the doctor who killed, abused and abandoned their children.

 

[Tygger]

Victory22, I have no issue with your views; I simply do not share them.

I will say Michael showed much compassion towards those who were extremely hurtful to him. I believe that is a quality he inherited from his mother.