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Leaked emails update (Michael Jackson)

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Thanks to Dave Powell for the information.

Most singers when they lipsync or mime are actually singing full voice when they are miming or lipsyncing - it's kind of like they are only able to accurately lip sync by actually singing along. Mike was no exception.

Now, the microphone that Mike is singing into is obviously a real mic but the outfront (front of house) sound mixer who controls what the audience hears has completely turned down that microphone and turned up the tape (or synclavier or protools) track that Mike is lipsyncing to - so the audience is listening to the lipsync (prerecorded) vocal.

With me so far?

However, when you have a live recording or remote truck setup - the truck might be fortunate enough to get a discrete (individual) feed of BOTH the live microphone AND the prerecorded track. If those discrete feeds are then recorded onto seperate/individual tracks of a multitrack, then when it comes to mixing the multitrack to produce a stereo mix of the concert, the mix engineer has the possibility of listening to (and choosing to favour) either the live vocal or the prerecorded track(or possibly both). Essentially the multitrack tape contains both Mike's live vocal and also the prerecorded vocal track.
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I think they should take the live vocals from the multitracks for song's such as 'Stranger In Moscow' & the 'Off The Wall' medley, depending on how it sounds of course.. but his vocals on the bridge during 'Dangerous' sounds great, so who knows how it sounds?
 
Zakk said:
Back on topic, i find it great that Michael sang live beneath the playback.. means the estate always have that option if they feel that his genuine vocal performance will attract more viewers to see the concert in Theaters.
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We don't know how well he sang under the playback. I don't think he would sing full out when he knew that the audience wouldn't hear it.
 
Galactus123 said:
We don't know how well he sang under the playback. I don't think he would sing full out when he knew that the audience wouldn't hear it.
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An example would be 'BAD' unreleased live vocal from the multitracks, he doesn't sound completely in tone but it is reassuring that the shows that were multi-channel, do have his microphone recording's available.
 
MattyJam said:
Which show are you talking about?
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Prague, the sound mixer chose to turn up Michael's live vocal to a higher volume than the tape! check out the ''live vocal mix'' i posted in this thread a couple of pages back
 
I love the HIStory tour and would love to see it in cinemas with a major release. So there.

Why are people complaining about the lipping anyway? The general public wants to see MJ dancing and putting a great show, you know most of them don't care much for his vocals. This isn't a Whitney Houston or a Mariah Carey show where people expect nothing but a great vocal.

As long as MJ is dancing and making a great show I don't see anyone complaining. They may dub some live vocals here and there to make it sound a bit more live and that's it.
 
serendipity said:
I love the HIStory tour and would love to see it in cinemas with a major release. So there.

Why are people complaining about the lipping anyway? The general public wants to see MJ dancing and putting a great show, you know most of them don't care much for his vocals. This isn't a Whitney Houston or a Mariah Carey show where people expect nothing but a great vocal.

As long as MJ is dancing and making a great show I don't see anyone complaining. They may dub some live vocals here and there to make it sound a bit more live and that's it.
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It actually makes me so sad to see fans reduce MJ to being a dancer. I happen to think he was also a great vocalist.
 
respect77 said:
It actually makes me so sad to see fans reduce MJ to being a dancer. I happen to think he was also a great vocalist.
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Everyone know's that Michael is a great vocalist. They have the option to include live vocals if they want, and i hope they do.. but i will also understand if they decide against it.
 
respect77 said:
It actually makes me so sad to see fans reduce MJ to being a dancer. I happen to think he was also a great vocalist.
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It's very sad. Downplaying MJ's vocal talents just to make the HIStory Tour look better than it was. To me, MJ's dancing abilities and singing abilities are equal.
 
analogue said:
It's very sad. Downplaying MJ's vocal talents just to make the HIStory Tour look better than it was. To me, MJ's dancing abilities and singing abilities are equal.
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Have a nice time sitting at home watching your 240p ''restored'' VHS of Wembley, whilst the rest of us are in the cinema's watching Michael entertain the world.
 
Look at the beginning of this video
How can anyone not care about him as a singer after that?
 
Zakk said:
Have a nice time sitting at home watching your 240p VHS whilst the rest of us are in the cinema's watching Michael entertain the world.
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I actually find that VHS more entertaining than any HIStory tour show. Plus do not make it look like analogue is the only one criticizing this possibility. Actually, it seems to me a lot of fans here (if not the majority) have a problem with the prospect of HIStory tour representing MJ as a "live" artists in the cinemas. I also suspect we would not have a lot of "fun" with the reviews...
 
analogue said:
Look at the beginning of this video
How can anyone not care about him as a singer after that?
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Yes, the ''Can You Feel It'' intro.. again, can't compare previous tours with HIStory.. that's just ''self destructive''! Best thing, is that we can hope for the best.. and that they will include some entire live vocals for a couple more tracks.
 
I hope there are other concerts in HD than Munich. If there aren't then they are going to release that in cinemas 3D like John Branca said.
 
Galactus123 said:
I hope there are other concerts in HD than Munich. If there aren't then they are going to release that in cinemas 3D like John Branca said.
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Nothing is set in stone. Hopefully they will pay attention to the concerns regarding a cinema release of any HIStory tour show. Actually if they do go ahead with it despite of the controversy (not only here) then I will be convinced that the Estate deliberately tries to ruin MJ's repuatation as an artist. LOL.
 
Zakk said:
Have a nice time sitting at home watching your 240p ''restored'' VHS of Wembley, whilst the rest of us are in the cinema's watching Michael entertain the world.
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I'll take my DVD of Wembley anyday over any HD show from the HIStory Tour. For me, Michael's performance always comes first
 
analogue said:
I'll take my DVD of Wembley anyday over any HD show from the HIStory Tour. For me, Michael's performance always comes first
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I respect your decision, but i have faith that this release (if it happens) will be great, he seems to have much more energy than later shows which could mean that the microphone recording's could sound great! they have to be far better than the meh sound of Ostende.
 
respect77 said:
It actually makes me so sad to see fans reduce MJ to being a dancer. I happen to think he was also a great vocalist.
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Um, did I say he wasn't? I'm obviously talking about the general public - isn't that why most of you are afraid of? That the general public wouldn't like it if he lips? I happen to think most of the general public would want to see him dance and put on a show and would not care much if he's singing live or lipping.

A lot of the times his singing has taken a back seat to the choreography and the show and the general public never seemed to mind it. So I'm not sure why all the complaining.
 
serendipity said:
Um, did I say he wasn't? I'm obviously talking about the general public - isn't that why most of you are afraid of? That the general public wouldn't like it if he lips? I happen to think most of the general public would want to see him dance and put on a show and would not care much if he's singing live or lipping.

A lot of the times his singing has taken a back seat to the choreography and the show and the general public never seemed to mind it. So I'm not sure why all the complaining.
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The positive reaction to his performance on Human Nature on This Is It shows that people do care about him as a singer
 
serendipity said:
Um, did I say he wasn't? I'm obviously talking about the general public - isn't that why most of you are afraid of? That the general public wouldn't like it if he lips? I happen to think most of the general public would want to see him dance and put on a show and would not care much if he's singing live or lipping.

A lot of the times his singing has taken a back seat to the choreography and the show and the general public never seemed to mind it. So I'm not sure why all the complaining.
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I think it's a bit naive to think that the general public will give him a pass for lip-syncing just because he is MJ. Why would they? If anything the standard is higher for him, because he has this reputation of being the greatest entertainer and when people see him blatantly lipping through a two and half hours show they will be puzzled about what's the big deal about MJ. Do we really want that? I sure do not. I also do not want to take my non-fan friends to the cinema and then having to make excuses for MJ lipping. Put a show there that is impressive and does not require any explanations or excuses. I just do not see any reason to put exactly this show into the theaters when every other tour he ever did was so much better. Why would any MJ fan want him to be represented to a wider audience at his worst? I don't get it.

And it's not just the general public, but many fans here and elsewhere expressed that they find the HIStory tour MJ's weakest tour. So again, why not put something in the theater that is a lot more popular in the fanbase as well?

And if you say, the general public does not care for him as a singer anyway: Firstly, I do not think that is true. Secondly, if that is true for a certain segment of the general punblic then ask yourself if that is partly not exactly because mostly they have seen him lip-sync (Motown 25 etc)? So wouldn't it be actually better to dispel the myth about MJ not being a singer than to reinforce it further? We all know he was a great singer, so why not to promote that side of him as well? Why should we accept and even further reinforce false memes about him as an artist which reduce him to being a dancer instead of the all-round entertainer (including great singer!) that he was?
 
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analogue said:
The positive reaction to his performance on Human Nature on This Is It shows that people do care about him as a singer
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That wasn't the reason people went to see THIS IS IT! and his voice wasn't the reason they bought tickets to see him live, they paid to see him perform. Michael is blessed with a great vocal & he is also the master of dance, it's about the experience.. not about being upset due to his artistic decisions.
 
analogue said:
The positive reaction to his performance on Human Nature on This Is It shows that people do care about him as a singer
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There was positive reaction to all the songs in This Is It.

respect77 said:
I think it's a bit naive to think that the general public will give him a pass for lip-syncing just because he is MJ. Why would they? If anything the standard is higher for him, because he has this reputation of being the greatest entertainer and when people see him blatantly lipping through a two and half hours show they will be puzzled about what's the big deal about MJ. Do we really want that? I sure do not. I also do not want to take my non-fan friends to the cinema and then having to make excuses for MJ lipping. Put a show there that is impressive and does not require any explanations or exuses. I just do not see any reason to put exactly this show into the theaters when every other tour he ever did was so much better. Why would any MJ fan want him to be represented to a wider audience at his worst? I don't get it.

And it's not just the general public, but many fans here and elsewhere expressed that they find the HIStory tour MJ's weakest tour. So again, why not put something in the theater that is a lot more popular in the fanbase as well?
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Wasn't the HIStory tour very successful? If so, then there you have it - the gp didn't mind his lipping and I don't remember any controversy regarding that. All singers who dance a lot are lipping at least some of the songs on tour, Madonna, Janet, Beyonce etc. and the gp usually doesn't care.

As to why not put another tour in cinemas - maybe because this being his most recent one they have it in better quality than the others? Especially if they want to make it 3D like Brance said.
 
Zakk said:
That wasn't the reason people went to see THIS IS IT! and his voice wasn't the reason they bought tickets to see him live, they paid to see him perform. Michael is blessed with a great vocal & he is also the master of dance, it's about the experience.. not about being upset due to his artistic decisions.
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I was just making the point that people DO care about him as a singer. The positive reaction to that performance shows that. And you're right, it is about the experience, and his singing is also a major part of it, along with the dancing
 
analogue said:
I was just making the point that people DO care about him as a singer. The positive reaction to that performance shows that. And you're right, it is about the experience, and his singing is also a major part of it, along with the dancing
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Yeah, they do.. but you don't know how the audio will be in the finished project! we could get a couple of extra song's with live vocals, if we convince the estate by emailing them that we would enjoy closer to the amount of live vocals that were done on the DWT.. 6 in 1993 correct?
 
serendipity said:
There was positive reaction to all the songs in This Is It.



Wasn't the HIStory tour very successful? If so, then there you have it - the gp didn't mind his lipping and I don't remember any controversy regarding that. All singers who dance a lot are lipping at least some of the songs on tour, Madonna, Janet, Beyonce etc. and the gp usually doesn't care.

As to why not put another tour in cinemas - maybe because this being his most recent one they have it in better quality than the others? Especially if they want to make it 3D like Brance said.
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Madonna isn't a great singer IMO but not even she ever lipped through a whole concert, let alone a whole tour! Lipping a couple of songs is accepted, but lipping 95% of the songs at a show is not any more. Maybe people did not care that much in 1996/97 but they sure do now. Plus, I actually have seen fans saying they walked out of a HIStory tour concerts because of the lipping... So no, not everyone was happy and accepting of it, even back then. Now people are even more critical of it.

Film quality alone is a shallow reason behind this choice. Artistic considerations should always be a priority. Fans and the Estate need to understand that such things are also an investment. If you put out aristically sub-par products with big fanfare sooner or later the public will question MJ's qualities altogether and then it will be more and more difficult to represent him as a serious artist in the future and sell products with his name.
 
Back when people went to a HIStory Tour show in 1996/1997, many of them were probably unaware that they were going into a 90% lip synced show. And seeing a concert in person is a different experience to seeing it in the cinemas. In person you can get caught up in the excitement, and not notice the lip syncing. But watching it in the cinema is a different experience all together, and the lip syncing is made all the more obvious
 
Part 1 (Following "Gates of Kiev" introduction)
1. Scream / They Don't Care About Us [Live Vocal from Multi's?] / In the Closet
2. Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' (Live Vocal)
3. Stranger in Moscow (Live Vocal from Multi's?)
4. Smooth Criminal

Part 2 (Following "The Wind" interlude)
5. You Are Not Alone [Live vocal from Multi's?]
6. The Way You Make Me Feel
7. I Want You Back / The Love You Save / I'll Be There (The Jackson 5 song) [Live]
8. Rock With You / Off the Wall / Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough

Part 3 (Following "Remember the Time" interlude)
9. Billie Jean
10. Thriller
11. Beat It
12. Come Together / D.S.

Part 4 (Following Black or White "Panther" interlude)
13. Dangerous
14. Black or White
15. Earth Song

Part 5 (Following "We Are the World" interlude)
16. Heal the World
17. HIStory [Live Vocal from Multi's?]
 
analogue said:
I'll take my DVD of Wembley anyday over any HD show from the HIStory Tour. For me, Michael's performance always comes first
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Hear hear.

Substance beats style any day of the week.

HD wont make anything a better concert than it already is, it just makes some people enjoy it more because of quality.

I'd rather see Michael's short films released in HD than a concert.
 
Watching a video for the HD is like playing a video game for the graphics
 
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