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Let's end the confusion about MJ's unreleased tracks here

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Well you stated it differently this time. If you don't like it, cool and fine. Just felt you yucked my yum a little too hard. No grudges held.

I think those Bad tracks are underrated as well. In fact I'm gonna listen to Speed Demon right now. As a matter of fact, it, Sunset Driver, and She Drives Me Wild are all amazing to actually drive to as well.
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JGF and Speed Demon are not filled lmao, just because they weren’t widely released as singles doesn’t mean they were fillers
 
Hollywood_Tonight said:
Unbreakable, Heartbreaker and Invincible sound like 3 variations of the same song to me. Imo those are significantly more similar than any of the Teddy Riley tracks on Dangerous.
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I don’t agree with this line personally. “Unbreakable” and “Invincible” are similar in tempo, but I think they all stand out as individual songs. Some of the Riley tracks, great as they are, all feel like they all use the same templates.
 
dethorro said:
It is interesting that the cassette is dated October 30,1986 because it means that it was most likely recorded at Westlake. The 1986 rough demo of Streetwalker is dated October 27, 1986, and is also a scratch vocal. A Hayvenhurst demo must exist for both of these songs, because we know that Turning Me Off and Streetwalker were both initially recorded in early 86’, and it may contain a stronger lead vocal.

I believe these cassettes contain Westlake recreations and if this is true, that means that Turning Me Off was considered by the A-Team for an inclusion on the album. Apparently, (I don’t remember who said it, I think it was John Barnes) Michael really liked the song also.
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Brad said majority of the songs on Bad were first recorded and went through pre-production at Hayvenhurst before being re-cut at Westlake

Turning Me Off is from 1984 and was initially recorded in LA around the same time as the first demo of We Are the World
 
mj_frenzy said:
'She Drives Me Wild' sounds immature and childish with all these sounds of car horns, car engines, slamming car doors, sirens, etc, and his growling vocals do not really suit him.

One has to wonder what was going on in Michael Jackson's mind when he decided to include that song on his 'Dangerous' album.
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Because he wanted to do all kinds of music, but above all it had to be 'fun'/family entertainment and in no way offend or exclude anyone. I think the car sounds are too corny as well, but in a way this song is more 'MJ' than any other song on the album (except for 'Heal The World' lol )

+ it's possibly a follow-up on 'Speed Demon'
 
threepea11 said:
JGF and Speed Demon are not filled lmao, just because they weren’t widely released as singles doesn’t mean they were fillers
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I don't think JGF is a filler too (again, MJ didn't believe in fillers) but an attempt to have another song like 'The Girl Is Mine'. And 'Ebony & Ivory' did well too; Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson: it could have been a hit
 
Victorious said:
I don't think JGF is a filler too (again, MJ didn't believe in fillers) but an attempt to have another song like 'The Girl Is Mine'.
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Actually, 'Just Good Friends' was an attempt to have another song like 'The Girl Is Mine' and 'P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)', according to Quincy Jones.

Quincy Jones later bitterly regretted having included this song on the 'BAD' album.
Victorious said:
Because he wanted to do all kinds of music, but above all it had to be 'fun'/family entertainment and in no way offend or exclude anyone. I think the car sounds are too corny as well, but in a way this song is more 'MJ' than any other song on the album (except for 'Heal The World' lol )

+ it's possibly a follow-up on 'Speed Demon'
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And it became a much inferior follow-up to the 'Speed Demon' song.

Compared to 'She Drives Me Wild', 'Speed Demon' at least has better vocals and some interesting moments, such as, its bass line, or even the brief falsetto.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Compared to 'She Drives Me Wild', 'Speed Demon' at least has better vocals and some interesting moments, such as, its bass line, or even the brief falsetto.
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I totally agree but I don't think he himself saw it as a filler at all. Also I think the song could be so much better: all lead vocals (and basslines too) are muffled away on the Dangerous album and there are catchy elements hidden; under the rap part for instance
 
mj_frenzy said:
Actually, 'Just Good Friends' was an attempt to have another song like 'The Girl Is Mine' and 'P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)', according to Quincy Jones.

Quincy Jones later bitterly regretted having included this song on the 'BAD' album.
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? - Why? Do you have more info? A video where Quincy talks about it or a quote or something. Why did he regret a duet between Stevie Wonder and MJ? _ Did he think the song was weak? Would like to hear more about this. :) - Did he argue with MJ over this?
 

For anyone that hasn't seen this video, I strongly recommend it. You can see Mike's thought process in the Dangerous tracklist and tellingly you can see him grooving to CLHGA around 5 mins. Clearly he loved CLHGA, like he loved Smooth Criminal on the Bad album

Blood, Ghosts, SPYHO and Joy were all fantastic songs left off the record, but perhaps their inclusion would have changed the focus of the album.

The story of the song Dangerous is similar to Blood, so it would make sense to pick one or the other.
Same with SPYHO - Will You Be There,
Ghosts - Trip
Joy probably has most in common with RTT, but perhaps Mike didn't want to convey love on Dangerous like he had on the Bad album.

Personally provided we hear MJ's version of Joy one day, I'm happy with choices that were made on Dangerous
 
mj_frenzy said:
Compared to 'She Drives Me Wild', 'Speed Demon' at least has better vocals and some interesting moments, such as, its bass line, or even the brief falsetto.
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She Drives Me Wild have incredible vocals. So does Speed Demon. And adding a bass line to the former wouldn’t necessarily be in its favour. It’s a song where the drums and percussion along with the vocals takes center stage. Just take the Dangerous demo, for an example, and compare it to the final version. In my opinion, the song work much better without the bass. It takes on a completely different, rawer character.
 
Victorious said:
I totally agree but I don't think he himself saw it as a filler at all. Also I think the song could be so much better: all lead vocals (and basslines too) are muffled away on the Dangerous album and there are catchy elements hidden; under the rap part for instance
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I wouldn’t say the bass lines are “muffled away” in, say, Remember the Time, Black or White, and Who Is It.

And regarding the vocals: Do you find them muffled on Heal the World and Gone Too Soon, too? As for the New Jack Swing tracks, I’m sure it’s a conscious choice to mix the vocals a bit lower than what you’d expect to hear from for example a Bad era up tempo song. Although, when you say “muffled” I cannot help but think that you are perhaps referring to lack of treble (high frequencies)?
 
mj_frenzy said:
[…] Quincy Jones later bitterly regretted having included this song on the 'BAD' album. […]
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I would love to know the source of this statement. I’ve never heard Quincy said anything of the like about Just Good Friends, and honestly, I would be quite surprised if he has actually expressed regrets regarding it.

As for me, I hold the song very dear. It’s a duet between my two favourite vocalists, for heaven’s sake – what more can you ask for?
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:

For anyone that hasn't seen this video, I strongly recommend it. You can see Mike's thought process in the Dangerous tracklist and tellingly you can see him grooving to CLHGA around 5 mins. Clearly he loved CLHGA, like he loved Smooth Criminal on the Bad album

Blood, Ghosts, SPYHO and Joy were all fantastic songs left off the record, but perhaps their inclusion would have changed the focus of the album.

The story of the song Dangerous is similar to Blood, so it would make sense to pick one or the other.
Same with SPYHO - Will You Be There,
Ghosts - Trip
Joy probably has most in common with RTT, but perhaps Mike didn't want to convey love on Dangerous like he had on the Bad album.

Personally provided we hear MJ's version of Joy one day, I'm happy with choices that were made on Dangerous
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Very good points, which echoes my thoughts on the matter.

You have to remember that if you were to swap songs in and out, you’d risk rubbing the balance. For example, the suggestion to swap out two of the up tempo songs for Someone Put Your Hand Out and For All Time would make the album quite heavy with ballads, which ironically is a common complaint about Invincible.
 
mj_frenzy said:
[…] 'She Drives Me Wild' sounds immature and childish with all these sounds of car horns, car engines, slamming car doors, sirens, etc, and his growling vocals do not really suit him. […]
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The car related sounds (along with Michael’s vocals) are exactly what makes the song! I fail to see what one could see as childish about these sounds, because sound experimentation sure shouldn’t make it so. Then I must ask: Is the sound of glass breaking in Jam childish, too?

And the “growling” is a perfect match for She Drives Me Wild. Michael’s delivery is insane; I have a hard time imagining anyone else pulling them off with the same grit, sense of urgency, and level of (technical) control.
 
Agonum said:
I wouldn’t say the bass lines are “muffled away” in, say, Remember the Time, Black or White, and Who Is It.

And regarding the vocals: Do you find them muffled on Heal the World and Gone Too Soon, too? As for the New Jack Swing tracks, I’m sure it’s a conscious choice to mix the vocals a bit lower than what you’d expect to hear from for example a Bad era up tempo song. Although, when you say “muffled” I cannot help but think that you are perhaps referring to lack of treble (high frequencies)?
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With muffled away vocals and basslines I meant less dominant (than I was used to from MJ). I was generalizing a bit, the tracks you mention are much better yes. So I guess it's a conscious choice to mix down the vocals in the NJS tracks but then again RTT is also a NJS track, strange.

I only learned the vocals for CLHGA last week, just totally unclear. On purpose or not I think the NJS tracks would benefit a lot from clearer vocals and louder basslines
 
Agonum said:
The car related sounds (along with Michael’s vocals) are exactly what makes the song! I fail to see what one could see as childish about these sounds, because sound experimentation sure shouldn’t make it so. Then I must ask: Is the sound of glass breaking in Jam childish, too?

And the “growling” is a perfect match for She Drives Me Wild. Michael’s delivery is insane; I have a hard time imagining anyone else pulling them off with the same grit, sense of urgency, and level of (technical) control.
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That synth build-up on the song is 👌
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:

For anyone that hasn't seen this video, I strongly recommend it. You can see Mike's thought process in the Dangerous tracklist and tellingly you can see him grooving to CLHGA around 5 mins. Clearly he loved CLHGA, like he loved Smooth Criminal on the Bad album

Blood, Ghosts, SPYHO and Joy were all fantastic songs left off the record, but perhaps their inclusion would have changed the focus of the album.

The story of the song Dangerous is similar to Blood, so it would make sense to pick one or the other.
Same with SPYHO - Will You Be There,
Ghosts - Trip
Joy probably has most in common with RTT, but perhaps Mike didn't want to convey love on Dangerous like he had on the Bad album.

Personally provided we hear MJ's version of Joy one day, I'm happy with choices that were made on Dangerous
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Came for the tracklist, stayed for the Mickey watch.
 
SDMW and CLHGA might be "filler" but they provide an atmosphere for the album. Personally, I enjoy both tracks immensely and listen to them more than anything else on the album because they were never over played on the radio.

Tracks 1-6 on Dangerous are great for listening to during a workout. It's non-stop energy.
 
Agonum said:
I would love to know the source of this statement. I’ve never heard Quincy said anything of the like about Just Good Friends, and honestly, I would be quite surprised if he has actually expressed regrets regarding it.

As for me, I hold the song very dear. It’s a duet between my two favourite vocalists, for heaven’s sake – what more can you ask for?
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I think the issue is the song itself- lyrically and melodically it’s a weaker song compared to other songs on Bad (especially if you compare it to MITM- the other song MJ didn’t write on the album). Quincy himself said Just Good Friends didn’t work as a song on the Bad 25 documentary and I completely agree with him on this. That aside, it does have great vocals and the production is quite good. I wish MJ and Stevie tried to duet Cheater, TYLA or another Bad outtake written by MJ.
 
Derek1984 said:
SDMW and CLHGA might be "filler" but they provide an atmosphere for the album. Personally, I enjoy both tracks immensely and listen to them more than anything else on the album because they were never over played on the radio.

Tracks 1-6 on Dangerous are great for listening to during a workout. It's non-stop energy.
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I personally don’t see these tracks as filler- do people just assume this because they weren’t released as singles? They’re really good songs with great vocals and adlibs.
 
Hess said:
? - Why? Do you have more info? A video where Quincy talks about it or a quote or something. Why did he regret a duet between Stevie Wonder and MJ? _ Did he think the song was weak? Would like to hear more about this. :) - Did he argue with MJ over this?
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Agonum said:
I would love to know the source of this statement. I’ve never heard Quincy said anything of the like about Just Good Friends, and honestly, I would be quite surprised if he has actually expressed regrets regarding it.

As for me, I hold the song very dear. It’s a duet between my two favourite vocalists, for heaven’s sake – what more can you ask for?
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Quincy Jones stated that on several occasions, for example:

"[On the 'BAD' album Michael Jackson] did all but two songs. I made a mistake on the duet with him and Stevie. That didn't work" (Quincy Jones, Rolling Stone Interview, 2017)
Agonum said:
The car related sounds (along with Michael’s vocals) are exactly what makes the song! I fail to see what one could see as childish about these sounds, because sound experimentation sure shouldn’t make it so. Then I must ask: Is the sound of glass breaking in Jam childish, too?

And the “growling” is a perfect match for She Drives Me Wild. Michael’s delivery is insane; I have a hard time imagining anyone else pulling them off with the same grit, sense of urgency, and level of (technical) control.
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The sound of glass breaking in 'Jam' is homage to Michael Jordan, who dunked the ball so hard that it shattered the backboard during a Nike exhibition game in 1985.

But the sound of glass breaking in 'Jam' has also another (social) meaning, as shown in the music video.

The blue ball (which symbolizes the globe) shatters the window glass and flies through it, showing in that way that people play with it and thus how messed-up is our world.
 
Hollywood_Tonight said:
I think the issue is the song itself- lyrically and melodically it’s a weaker song compared to other songs on Bad (especially if you compare it to MITM- the other song MJ didn’t write on the album). Quincy himself said Just Good Friends didn’t work as a song on the Bad 25 documentary and I completely agree with him on this. That aside, it does have great vocals and the production is quite good. I wish MJ and Stevie tried to duet Cheater, TYLA or another Bad outtake written by MJ.
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I see it mentioned in Allard and Lecocq’s book All the Tracks. But I still believe the quote has been taken out of context.
 
mj_frenzy said:
"On the 'BAD' album Michael Jackson] did all but two songs. I made a mistake on the duet with him and Stevie. That didn't work" (Quincy Jones, Rolling Stone Interview, 2017)
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Thank you for clearing it up! I somehow thought you were saying that Quincy regretted having Michael doing a duet with Stevie.

mj_frenzy said:
The sound of glass breaking in 'Jam' is homage to Michael Jordan, who dunked the ball so hard that it shattered the backboard during a Nike exhibition game in 1985.
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Okay, but why then do you have glass breaking all throughout Scream? That seems like an oddly placed homage to Jordan from where I’m standing.
 
As usual my feeling is different to the majority of fans. I adore both SDMW and CLHGA.

I can't think of anyone else singing SDMW with so much swagger and cool as MJ, it is filthy as fuck just like the glorious lyrics. @turtleneck_sweater I comment this person on the choice of username before and here I do it again, great homage to a great song!

Black jeans
And a turtleneck sweater
I know the girl is fakin'
'Cause I've seen her look better

This is amazing, the delivery, the music, the lyrics :devilish:

As for CLHGA it has a SICK beat, the tease we had a few years ago of an extra rap part by Michael himself was enticing. Michael's voice is mixed to the background which emphasizes the awesome hard beats and later when he starts rapping it becomes part of the beat. Awesome song.
The entire first 6 songs are amazing and a shocking departure of his former sounds, I loved it so much back then. These song can be extended with minutes for me, I'm sure they cut a lot out of these tracks.
 
Hollywood_Tonight said:
I personally don’t see these tracks as filler- do people just assume this because they weren’t released as singles? They’re really good songs with great vocals and adlibs.
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I define MJ's filler as a track that doesn't have hit potential on the charts. Doesn't mean it's a poor song. Just doesn't have that mass appeal to it.
 
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