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Michael as a dancer:

I should have clarified. When people labour the hard working aspect or address only that, is what I meant to say.
 
nikirox said:
Remember the time and Ghosts are my favorites too, but for the complexity. I don't think that are difficult to learn, maybe are difficult to execute the way that Michael does...


I don't completely agree with that. He was truly gifted, of course, but if you don't train it, you lose it. You can see through the years that he reached his best, (if that's even possible) so i think he was a hard worker.

A wiser teacher told me once, that it isn't just the talent what distinguishes you, it is how much you work for that. And When you are on the top of the game, you must work even harder, much more harder.

Do you know by chance who are Lombard twins? You should check up what Michael said when he saw them dance. :)




He made a revolution.
You can see it not just in the pop world, but in the dance world.
I am a ballet dancer, I should have Rudolf Nureyev as idol... but what else can I say...

I can recall a recent situation with a dance teacher who is 10 years older than me, we were in the studio before class, and she put "Can't let her away" on her ipod and she was saying that she loved the whole Dangerous album and how much she loved MJ, and someone said "Oh no, I hate Michael Jackson" (-.-) and this dancer response was "If you are here now, is because he exists".

I think is kind of that, that he made literally a change in the dance world forever, anybody can deny it. You can see Michael moves and style everywhere.
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As a Ballet dancer do you see any of that very precise technique in the way MJ moves. I know he studied everything and he certainly included jazz elements in his work along of course with tap but I am just wondering if there were any ballet like movements in MJ 's work.
 
Nikirox, it 's a pleasure to read your appreciation of the dance, as a ballet dancer and in general. I love all our posters write about how they appreciate Michael's... and how they live their own dance experience.
And thanks for the link about Lombard Twins, http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/co...ombard-twins-400-dollars-and-dancing-destiny/ , loved reading it!

As for MJJA 's question, I wait for your answer Nikirox, but for me, I think I saw many times in Michael's dance moves that he danced "ballet" in his own way. That's a thing that inspires me so much, the way Michael let himself inspire by so many dancestyles from all over the world. When you observe him you discover so many amazing things while he dances... (haha, NOT only his sexyness, finally the word is said ;-) )

But Nikirox, I'ld love to read you talking about Michael's dancing how you appreciate him technically (more or less about MJJA's question).
 
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I love how Michael dances to ballads :)

E.g you shouldn't be able to dance to 'I Just Can't Stop Lovin' You', but look at it live...just the odd move & spin and finger point. This shouldn't be possible! But it works and it looks right.

Same with 'I'll Be There' and 'Heal The World' on Dangerous Tour.

I also love how you have the proper routines (Dangerous, Beat It, Thriller etc.), but then on the other side, you have one of my favourite live performances 'Another Part Of Me', not really choreographed by anyone except Michael's nature. Just him strutting & being awesomely funky. Sometimes it's just his bloody neck moving and it looks perfect!

Then you have maybe my favourite performance 'Will You Be There'. I think I may have said this before, but for me the live performance of this is like someone put the CD in the world's most powerful computer and asked it to make a visual representation of this song. It is just perfect and fits in a way I've never seem moves fit music (apart from maybe Thriller!). It is unbelievably moving, a flawless mix of ballet, expression & performance dance.
 
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A great big ol' yes to all of that, Tony! :happy: This is a fascinating thread to read, everyone. And I have to admit, I can't get the SIM performance (posted earlier) out of my head, he's so incredible. It makes me miss him terribly.

I've always enjoyed watching this part of the Making of Thriller, too:

 
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MJJA said:
As a Ballet dancer do you see any of that very precise technique in the way MJ moves. I know he studied everything and he certainly included jazz elements in his work along of course with tap but I am just wondering if there were any ballet like movements in MJ 's work.
Click to expand...

Garden said:
Nikirox, it 's a pleasure to read your appreciation of the dance, as a ballet dancer and in general. I love all our posters write about how they appreciate Michael's... and how they live their own dance experience.
And thanks for the link about Lombard Twins, http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/co...ombard-twins-400-dollars-and-dancing-destiny/ , loved reading it!

As for MJJA 's question, I wait for your answer Nikirox, but for me, I think I saw many times in Michael's dance moves that he danced "ballet" in his own way. That's a thing that inspires me so much, the way Michael let himself inspire by so many dancestyles from all over the world. When you observe him you discover so many amazing things while he dances... (haha, NOT only his sexyness, finally the word is said ;-) )

But Nikirox, I'ld love to read you talking about Michael's dancing how you appreciate him technically (more or less about MJJA's question).
Click to expand...


The pleasure is mine, I'm glad you liked the link :) !

I would totally say that I see ballet in Michael dance style. But it is popularly said that ballet is the mother of all dance styles, the basic moves of Jazz dance were taken from ballet, (with modernizations, of course). Bob Fosse technique shows it clearly.
We can see clear ballet moves in his choreography. In Bad he does a super pretty arabesque, in Beat it he does a rond de jambe l'air, and the list goes on.

I could put pictures with examples if you want, but I don't want to bore you people with ballet terminology. :yawn:
 
Tony-I love what you said about being a perfect visual representation of the song. I remember talking about Billie Jean the day after Motown 25 and saying if you had the sound on the TV down, you'd still know what that song was about.
From the glares to the camera, to stomping up and down, to shaking his fist, to cockily strut around with his hand in his pocket-you'd know the story in the song.

And nikirox-I'd really like to see pix of these ballet steps. For example, what is a rond de jambe l'air?
 
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msdeweydiva said:
A great big ol' yes to all of that, Tony! :happy: This is a fascinating thread to read, everyone. And I have to admit, I can't get the SIM performance (posted earlier) out of my head, he's so incredible. It makes me miss him terribly.

I've always enjoyed watching this part of the Making of Thriller, too:

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It's Michael Peters saying all that! Gosh. My bad.
 
nikirox said:
The pleasure is mine, I'm glad you liked the link :) !

I would totally say that I see ballet in Michael dance style. But it is popularly said that ballet is the mother of all dance styles, the basic moves of Jazz dance were taken from ballet, (with modernizations, of course). Bob Fosse technique shows it clearly.
We can see clear ballet moves in his choreography. In Bad he does a super pretty arabesque, in Beat it he does a rond de jambe l'air, and the list goes on.

I could put pictures with examples if you want, but I don't want to bore you people with ballet terminology. :yawn:
Click to expand...
Actually please do post pictures or video of those moves. I would love to see them done by a professional and then look at them as done by MJ. Not boring at all.

Then you have maybe my favourite performance 'Will You Be There'. I think I may have said this before, but for me the live performance of this is like someone put the CD in the world's most powerful computer and asked it to make a visual representation of this song. It is just perfect and fits in a way I've never seem moves fit music (apart from maybe Thriller!). It is unbelievably moving, a flawless mix of ballet, expression & performance dance.
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I love this routine and performance in the Dangerous concert. I think it is very moving and one of the best things he did.
 
He is so unique in every aspect but he really is as a dancer. He doesn't just dance, he feels it.
I truly believe he is the greatest dancer who ever lived
 
MJJA said:
Actually please do post pictures or video of those moves. I would love to see them done by a professional and then look at them as done by MJ. Not boring at all.
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I agree. I think this would be fun and interesting to see!!
 
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Fireworks!


Moves and MIMES so gorgeously, oozes the song and rhythm, pure magic :wub:
 
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A lot of people forget that Michael was brilliant at tap. I know he included elements of tap in his moves later on, but I wish there were more raw videos of him tapping in his later years. I think that would have been fantastic to see. The Panther segment in Black or White comes to mind.
 
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Yeah I know. I always wished he had done a full on tap video or a full on tap performance live. It would have been awesome.
 
I am so sorry for the delay.
I wanted to make gifs and collages but i am terrible at that, so here is my little aport:

In the Bad video I found a lot of parts of ballet in the choreography.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsUXAEzaC3Q

at 0:06: the jump is a ballet move called grand jete, this time is frontal, in english would be a split jump.
http://www.balletdancersguide.com/images/ballet-exercises-ballet-jumps-21695475.jpg

1:29: the turn is a little rond de jambe l'air en tournant. It isn't a complete turn, is just a change of direction, so don't mind the exageration of turns in the comparation I am giving, just take it as an example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxT5gnXs4Ug

My favourite part:
2:51: the first 3 steps of this sequence: a rond de jambe a terre + passé + jump <3

3:00: that's a grand battement alla second
http://cs10931.vk.me/v10931328/1385/pUAmSsKtGrE.jpg (How tall!!)
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/20/89/85/208985a2cf1c799a62b33dbbf0a03d31.jpg

3:36: the dancers are coming from the back in a tour l'air (the jump in advance), and ending with a souplesse (when they relax their backs).

It's been a while since the last time I watched this choreo. It's elegant and full of technique. One good example of the mixing of classical ballet with Jazz dance. Michael is a pioneer.


When i said that i see ballet in Michael's dance, i mean the mix of the techniques.

I will give you this example, which perfectly describes that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMoeZE6EK7c

This is a classical dancer dancing Jazz and Modern dance. It's very interesting because I find similarities in the technique, even if Michael wasn't a jumping man


We know that Michael inspired himself on Fosse's steps. But he took it to another level.
I don't know nothing about popping, locking and on, but if there's somebody here who can put info about that... ;)
 
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Thank you for this. That will be fun to sit and examine. The Bad choreography always screamed Jerome Robbins to me, another master at mixing jazz and ballet, where The Way You Make Me Feel seems like the young Bob Fosse. And in my opinion Smooth Criminal got lots of inspiration from Stanley Donen and Gene Kelly mainly because of its sheer originality. (They were always way ahead of everyone else in that department.

But Robbins, Fosse, Donen and Kelly were always the front runners in mixing jazz, ballet and modern dance.

I always felt what took Michael to the next level, current for the younger generations and uniquely Michael's own was the mixing of these masters best with the modern and street stuff-the pop and lock and Soul Train dancing.
 
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I was just wondering if people thought there was a difference between being a great mover and a great dancer.
I have always believed that there are those (like me actually) who can move in time to the music and look good doing it and those that are true dancers as dancing to me is connectivity and combinations and technique and versatility and that's just not a level that I am on.
 
What a great question, MJJA! I've never really thought about it honestly. I've always used the term interchangeably, but I love your definition of what a dancer is...Michael was certainly all of that.
 
morinen;4070122 said:
A great article about Michael's contribution to the art of dance written by a professional choreographer and dancer, the most insightful discussion of his dance talent I've ever read: http://en.michaeljackson.ru/michael-jackson-the-dancer-of-the-dream/

MJJA, it addresses exactly the questions you are asking.
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Great piece!
Its a long article, but worth of reading it. It is always interesting to read what other dancers thought of Michael capabilities and how they viewed him as a dancer within their own profession.

"First, Michael is not just a performer. He is the creator of his dance. He doesn&#8217;t do something he simply learned by imitating a choreographer. Even when his dance is carefully choreographed, he remains the creator: his dance comes from within, not from other people, regardless of who he collaborated with during preparation.

Lots of choreographers and dancers participated in his projects, but the dance team and Michael are altogether different, although his dancers are always professional and excellent. Still, he invariably stands out, through both his manner of dancing and his inner feeling of the dance."

I seen many choreographs (Travis P etc) dancing MJ's routines, but when I see them dancing its like watching empty shell, whereas MJ filled that shell and showed himself to us.
 
Fun fact: MJ is the only artist to be inducted in the

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (twice actually, because the Jackson 5 are also inducted seperately)
Songwriters Hall of Fame
and Dance Hall of Fame.

As far as I know he is the only dancer from the field of pop/rock/R&B etc. music who is inducted in the dance hall of fame. Mostly it's about classical dancers (balett, jazz etc.). Although popular genres such as hip-hop dance are inducted - but as a genre, not some individual person from that field.
 
nikirox;4068434 said:
I am so sorry for the delay.
I wanted to make gifs and collages but i am terrible at that, so here is my little aport:

In the Bad video I found a lot of parts of ballet in the choreography.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsUXAEzaC3Q

at 0:06: the jump is a ballet move called grand jete, this time is frontal, in english would be a split jump.
http://www.balletdancersguide.com/images/ballet-exercises-ballet-jumps-21695475.jpg

1:29: the turn is a little rond de jambe l'air en tournant. It isn't a complete turn, is just a change of direction, so don't mind the exageration of turns in the comparation I am giving, just take it as an example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxT5gnXs4Ug

My favourite part:
2:51: the first 3 steps of this sequence: a rond de jambe a terre + passé + jump <3

3:00: that's a grand battement alla second
http://cs10931.vk.me/v10931328/1385/pUAmSsKtGrE.jpg (How tall!!)
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/20/89/85/208985a2cf1c799a62b33dbbf0a03d31.jpg

3:36: the dancers are coming from the back in a tour l'air (the jump in advance), and ending with a souplesse (when they relax their backs).

It's been a while since the last time I watched this choreo. It's elegant and full of technique. One good example of the mixing of classical ballet with Jazz dance. Michael is a pioneer.


When i said that i see ballet in Michael's dance, i mean the mix of the techniques.

I will give you this example, which perfectly describes that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMoeZE6EK7c

This is a classical dancer dancing Jazz and Modern dance. It's very interesting because I find similarities in the technique, even if Michael wasn't a jumping man


We know that Michael inspired himself on Fosse's steps. But he took it to another level.
I don't know nothing about popping, locking and on, but if there's somebody here who can put info about that... ;)
Click to expand...

HO-LEE CRAP! Wow, you gave us an argument with this beast. Thank you.
 
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