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Michael is number 1 on the "Best Singers of All Time" list.

HIStoric said:
You're making some really bold claims there, Princess. You shouldn't judge a whole group of people on the actions of a few. Similarly, you shouldn't judge the fanbase of one of the biggest artists alive off a few fans. She has hundreds and hundreds of millions of fans around the world and if you're going to make that claim, you might as well declare most of Michael's fanbase delusional based on the small selection who actually are.

While I have no doubts a good few dislike/hate Michael, I think you're over-exaggerating and, I mean this with all respect, I really do struggle to take what you say seriously.







See? I mean it's one thing to claim a certain fansite might be relatively hostile towards MJ (as that's a small group of people and hey, it is possible); but to claim that the vast majority of Beyonce's fanbase - aka millions and millions and millions of people - spend more time hating on Michael Jackson rather than going on about the woman herself. I mean come on. :smilerolleyes:
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I'm not judging based in the actions of few, but instead the actions of many.
They may sound like bold claims to you, but then again I imagine that perhaps you've never been to wide array of forums and music websites that I have before I found MJJC.
I say what I say from personal experience, so whether you (or anyone else) believes me or takes me seriously doesn't matter to me TBH
There are certain fanbases that do indeed hate MJ much more then others (including Beyonce fans/stans) for whatever reason, and they spend a lot of time doing it (it's all very petty).
And some MJ fans being delusional (about what I don't know) isn't the same as a fanbase constantly tearing down another artist to make their fave look better (one is having your own personal opinion within a fanbase and the other is going out of the way to be an asshole to other fanbases).

So believe (or don't believe) what you will.-_-
 
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Pink Diamond Princess said:
I'm not judging based in the actions of few, but instead the actions of many.
They may sound like bold claims to you, but then again I imagine that perhaps you've never been to wide array of forums and music websites that I have before I found MJJC.
I say what I say from personal experience, so whether you believe me or take me seriously doesn't matter to me TBH
There are certain fanbases that do indeed hate MJ much more then others (including Beyonce fans/stans) for whatever reason, and they spend a lot of time doing it (it's all very petty).
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Although I agree with you on one thing - for when it does happen, it is all very petty. It's something I expect from children or young teenagers. Just shut up and enjoy the music, ya know?

Pink Diamond Princess said:
And some MJ fans being delusional (about what I don't know) isn't the same as a fanbase constantly tearing down another artist to make their fave look better (one is having your own personal opinion within a fanbase and the other is being an asshole).
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My point was that in general, you should never judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. You're basing your view of millions and millions of people based on the views of a few hundred, maybe a thousand fans, and then making claims about millions of peoples on the behaviour of a few hundred. At that scale, it's really only a "few".

A real life example might be American police officers. We've all seen the news. There are unfortunately many cops in America who are trigger-happy racists and discriminate against minorities accordingly. There's definitely a solid number of them - after all if it were only the odd "bad apple" it wouldn't be making so many headlines. But you wouldn't go around saying every cop (or the majority of cops) are trigger-happy racists, because they're not, and it's not fair on those who aren't.

(Oh and for clarification, by delusional I mean those fans who act as if Michael is some sort of God who could do no absolutely wrong).
 
By the way, I am gay and almost asexual myself. Takes 1 to know 1, just because he was does not mean I loved Michael and his talent any less. In fact it makes me respect MichaelJackson even more. Being that way made him moe pure. Yes I defended Prince but do not condone the way he treated women and strung them along and broke their hearts. MJ also did not like the way Prince treated women in Purple Rain or the messed relationships of his brothers and their partners, or the way Joseph treated Katherine.

Michael could love and respect everyone and he had love before, but he was not a sex machine. His purity came throughin his voice, an angel can not be corrupted and Michael is an angel.

So obviously next to Pink Diamond Princess, me Mr Purple Ruby Prince is less of a person because I am gay and not a sex machine?
 
mjprince1976 said:
By the way, I am gay and almost asexual myself. Takes 1 to know 1, just because he was does not mean I loved Michael and his talent any less.
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But you don't know Michael's sex life. In fact none of us do. He was extremely shy and private about those aspects of his life but the few tidbits he did let out indicated that he was straight and had an interest in women.

It's fine to be asexual, bisexual or homosexual of course, but Michael was straight.
 
HIStoric said:
My point was that in general, you should never judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. You're basing your view of millions and millions of people based on the views of a few hundred, maybe a thousand fans, and then making claims about millions of peoples on the behaviour of a few hundred. At that scale, it's really only a "few".
I'll admit there is some extrapolation involved, but the internet is a very large place with many many people on it.

A real life example might be American police officers. We've all seen the news. There are unfortunately many cops in America who are trigger-happy racists and discriminate against minorities accordingly. There's definitely a solid number of them - after all if it were only the odd "bad apple" it wouldn't be making so many headlines. But you wouldn't go around saying every cop (or the majority of cops) are trigger-happy racists, because they're not, and it's not fair on those who aren't.
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It takes more to be a cop then it does to hate on someone on the internet, and as a result I'm sure there are many more internet haters then racist cops so IMO that comparison can't be drawn in the first place.
In general the internet is very different then real life.
People will say things on the internet that they would never say or do in reality.
But since we're drawing comparisons I could say that from observation and personal experience on the internet that the majority of Trump supporters are racist or bigoted to a certain extent, and even though I don't know every Trump supporter I wouldn't be wrong now would I?

(Oh and for clarification, by delusional I mean those fans who act as if Michael is some sort of God who could do no absolutely wrong).
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That is crazy as hell, but it's still not going out of your way to be an ass to other people for no reason.

Either way though, like I said, I don't really give a damn whether or not you believe me so I'm done.
25100A3F5636FAB928251D
 
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Pink Diamond Princess said:
You just won't let it go, will you.
NoI won't, it is my democratic right to have my opinion. But neither will you, It's like you think you known like he was your
next door neighbour.

What are you talking about?
I don't think that and literally no one in here even insinuated that. :/
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Well that's how it felt, I know there are a lot of people here who believe gays are sinners because thats
what their church tells them. I feel like, my preference for Prince over Michael is very unwelcome here and
the message I get is that only people who see MJ as their #1 artist should post at times.
 
mjprince1976 said:
Well that's how it felt, I know there are a lot of people here who believe gays are sinners because thats
what their church tells them. I feel like, my preference for Prince over Michael is very unwelcome here and
the message I get is that only people who see MJ as their #1 artist should post at times.
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yeah that seems to be a problem here
I get a feeling sometimes that you have to be a mega MJ fan or else you can't post here
 
mjprince1976 said:
Well that's how it felt
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Well....okay then, no one can tell you how to feel but literally no one said anything to purposefully evoke those feelings in you.
I know there are a lot of people here who believe gays are sinners because thats
what their church tells them.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I myself AM NOT one of those people.
I feel like, my preference for Prince over Michael is very unwelcome here and
the message I get is that only people who see MJ as their #1 artist should post at times.
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I'm sure there are quite a few people here that like other artist more then MJ and that's okay.
Where you went wrong is by saying MJ PALED in comparison to Prince as a vocalist and musician (you've got to admit that paled is a strong word, which is a far cry from simply stating that you like Prince or something about him more then you like MJ or something about him), and also by saying that MJ was something that he himself told us he was not.
I wasn't MJ's neighbor but he actually TOLD us he was straight.
You wouldn't (or at least I hope you wouldn't) tell someone that has told you they're gay that their straight, so why say that someone who has said that they're straight is gay, asexual, or anything else.
 
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Michaels Lover said:
because Michael himself has said that he wasn't gay and that he liked girls. he's been married for crying out loud! and they even said they had sex. there's absolutely nothing wrong with being gay or asexual, and I never said there was. but I find something wrong with ignoring his words and facts just because someone would rather believe what they want instead. I don't care what it's about
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Great post!
In a nut shell.
If someone doesn't see whats wrong with saying that a man who publicly said he was straight is gay, asexual, or anything else then they're ignorant and/or can't see the forest through the trees.
 
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Pink Diamond Princess said:
It takes more to be a cop then it does to hate on someone on the internet, and as a result I'm sure there are many more internet haters then racist cops so IMO that comparison can't be drawn in the first place.
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Besides the point man. You're not seeing the general message.

Pink Diamond Princess said:
But since we're drawing comparisons I could say that from observation and personal experience on the internet that the majority Trump supporter are racist or bigoted to a certain extent and even though I don't know every Trump supporter I wouldn't be wrong now would I?
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Mmm, I'm not sure that's entirely the same though. I think you're jumping to ideologies of groups that people subscribe to, as opposed to "actions of few". For some things, I think you can reasonably make some assumptions on groups of people based by who or what they follow.

I wrote up a couple of paragraphs in response, however by this point we are going quite off topic so I pasted the text here for you to read (this forum really should introduce "spoiler" sections like other forums).

Pink Diamond Princess said:
Either way though, like I said, I don't really give a damn whether or not you believe me so I'm done.
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You keep saying that...
 
mjprince1976 said:
I feel like, my preference for Prince over Michael is very unwelcome here and the message I get is that only people who see MJ as their #1 artist should post at times.
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Personally, I get the feeling that some people might be irritated by the fact you constantly bring up Prince even in threads where he's not the topic of discussion or overly relevant. I don't mean anything against you or Prince (because it doesn't bother me and Prince is cool, I like Prince), but it is something I've picked up on. I think some people have brought it up in the past too.
 
mjprince1976 said:
Michael could love and respect everyone and he had love before, but he was not a sex machine. His purity came throughin his voice, an angel can not be corrupted and Michael is an angel.
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I did not mean to start anything here, but I just took exception to the remark that Michael didn't have a "come to bed" vocal until "Break of Dawn."
Michael oozed sexuality to me when he grew up. Nothing more seductive than a man who is shyly and naively sexy with the look in his eyes and the romantic purr in his voice. It doesn't matter who wrote the songs-it was the way he sang them. He could have been singing gibberish in RWY and I was a goner. Nothing asexual about it.
Way more sexual than the overtly "sex machine" stuff which is a major turn off.
 
mjprince1976 said:
Well that's how it felt, I know there are a lot of people here who believe gays are sinners because thats
what their church tells them. I feel like, my preference for Prince over Michael is very unwelcome here and
the message I get is that only people who see MJ as their #1 artist should post at times.
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no one said anything like that at all. why are you making up all these things that obviously no one has said?
 
mjprince1976 said:
By the way, I am gay and almost asexual myself. Takes 1 to know 1, just because he was does not mean I loved Michael and his talent any less. In fact it makes me respect MichaelJackson even more. Being that way made him moe pure. Yes I defended Prince but do not condone the way he treated women and strung them along and broke their hearts. MJ also did not like the way Prince treated women in Purple Rain or the messed relationships of his brothers and their partners, or the way Joseph treated Katherine.
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But he wasn't.
 
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Seems this thread has started quite a few debates. Let's try to keep on topic.

I don't know whether the Top 10 website has any merit; it's just nice to see Michael occupying the number one spot. I'm not sure if anyone enters in the singers, or if voters can pick their favourite, and those with a certain amount of votes get a place, but it just made me smile to see Michael at the top :)
 
If the poll never ends it's pointless. You just give them ad revenue or something by going there. That is what they want.
 
Galactus123 said:
If the poll never ends it's pointless. You just give them ad revenue or something by going there. That is what they want.
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All online polls are pointless, especially ones where you can vote multiple times. It only reflects an element of the fan base that constantly give a rat's ass that their favourite has to be number one of everything.

Sales (and I mean old fashioned proper handing cash over for an album/single) are no only real barometer of success and MJ's pretty fine in that ballpark :)

And digressing somewhat, MJ is my number one artist ever, but I have other artists who I feel outshone in certain areas. I know if I posted that I'd get shot down by many.

For example, Madonna live is much better than Mike in my opinion, mainly due to the facts that bar one or two tours there were more live vocals (by no means saying she's a better vocalist!) and the way she never performed the song the same way twice.

It still means MJ is number one (and even if he #2 that's no bad thing!).
 
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mjprince1976 said:
Well that's how it felt, I know there are a lot of people here who believe gays are sinners because thats
what their church tells them.
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I'm sure there are people in every area of life who believe that - here not more than anywhere else, so no need to demonize MJJC with that. Especially when no one said that in the course of this discussion, so I have no idea what that has to do with anything stated in this discussion. Nor did anyone say being gay is wrong or that you are a sinner or anything like that. You try hard to get offended when no one offended you.

I feel like, my preference for Prince over Michael is very unwelcome here and
the message I get is that only people who see MJ as their #1 artist should post at times.
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No that isn't that is unwelcome. You said MJ pales in comparation to Prince which is your right to say and feel, but what did you expect, that you will get a lot of agreements with that on an MJ forum? If we thought MJ paled in comparation to Prince we would be on a Prince forum, not here, as simple as that. Expressing a disagreement to your opinion is just as legit of an opinion as your opinion. And it is not a personal attack on either you or Prince. Unless you also feel your comments on MJ to be an attack on MJ. We simply discussed different opinions about artistic aspects until you started making weird comments on MJ's sexuality or at least what you assume about it.

HIStoric said:
Personally, I get the feeling that some people might be irritated by the fact you constantly bring up Prince even in threads where he's not the topic of discussion or overly relevant. I don't mean anything against you or Prince (because it doesn't bother me and Prince is cool, I like Prince), but it is something I've picked up on. I think some people have brought it up in the past too.
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And this is another thing.

barbee0715 said:
I did not mean to start anything here, but I just took exception to the remark that Michael didn't have a "come to bed" vocal until "Break of Dawn."
Michael oozed sexuality to me when he grew up. Nothing more seductive than a man who is shyly and naively sexy with the look in his eyes and the romantic purr in his voice. It doesn't matter who wrote the songs-it was the way he sang them. He could have been singing gibberish in RWY and I was a goner. Nothing asexual about it.
Way more sexual than the overtly "sex machine" stuff which is a major turn off.
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This a 1000 times.

As a woman, to me MJ's subtle hints at sexuality in his songs and stage performances are a lot more sexy than Prince's explicit sexuality which is rather a turn off to me than a turn on. I never found Prince sexy one bit, MJ on the other hand oozes sexuality to me - in his subtle way. I am sure Prince has his share of female fans who find him more sexy and that is cool, but my issue is with this narrow-minded assumption that all women find the same things sexy and that explicit expressions of sexuality are necessarily sexier to women than the rather subtle hints that MJ operated with. Actually, to a lot of women they aren't. MJ knew how to be sexy without being explicit or vulgar about it and, from a female perspective, his performances were very far from asexual. Women do pick up on those subtle hints and to many of us it is actually more of a turn on than, say, Prince dry-humping a woman on stage.
 
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I'm sorry but no amount of belief makes something a fact. It's only right to believe something is true based on legitimate evidence and to this day there hasn't been such proof rather than behaviors and preferences a man attracted to women would have. If the media gave him a hard time when they thought Michael was a liar regarding who he was and what he went through, why some fans jump to the bandwagon too with no evidence whatsoever?
 
If Michael had told the world he was gay, I'd still adore him and wishing I had the chance of marrying him but the thing is he emphatically denied it every time reporters brought that subject up. It angers to no end fans themselves are incapable (not all, fortunately) of respect what Michael identified with regarding his sexual preference.
 
Snow White luvs Peter Pan said:
If the media gave him a hard time when they thought Michael was a liar regarding who he was and what he went through, why some fans jump to the bandwagon too with no evidence whatsoever?
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The amount of MJfans that do exactly that is staggering.
Michael's own feelings be damned.
It's disgusting and sad TBH.
 
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Michael Jackson.

I'm Nor Gay, I'm Not Bisexual, I'm Not Curious. But I Respect and Love those People Non the less.
 
respect77 said:
I'm sure there are people in every area of life who believe that - here not more than anywhere else, so no need to demonize MJJC with that. Especially when no one said that in the course of this discussion, so I have no idea what that has to do with anything stated in this discussion. Nor did anyone say being gay is wrong or that you are a sinner or anything like that. You try hard to get offended when no one offended you.
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Exactly. :yes:



No that isn't that is unwelcome. You said MJ pales in comparation to Prince which is your right to say and feel, but what did you expect, that you will get a lot of agreements with that on an MJ forum? If we thought MJ paled in comparation to Prince we would be on a Prince forum, not here, as simple as that. Expressing a disagreement to your opinion is just as legit of an opinion as your opinion. And it is not a personal attack on either you or Prince. Unless you also feel your comments on MJ to be an attack on MJ. We simply discussed different opinions about artistic aspects until you started making weird comments on MJ's sexuality or at least what you assume about it.
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This!
I'll never understand people that will come to an MJ fan forum, express an overly negative opinion about MJ, then get offended when other people let them know that they disagree with their opinion.
This kinda goes back to me saying that other fanbases expect MJ fans to sit back and watch MJ be insulted, but then label MJ fans crazy/overly aggressive when MJ fans defend MJ.



As a woman, to me MJ's subtle hints at sexuality in his songs and stage performances are a lot more sexy than Prince's explicit sexuality which is rather a turn off to me than a turn on. I never found Prince sexy one bit, MJ on the other hand oozes sexuality to me - in his subtle way. I am sure Prince has his share of female fans who find him more sexy and that is cool, but my issue is with this narrow-minded assumption that all women find the same things sexy and that explicit expressions of sexuality are necessarily sexier to women than the rather subtle hints that MJ operated with. Actually, to a lot of women they aren't. MJ knew how to be sexy without being explicit or vulgar about it and, from a female perspective, his performances were very far from asexual. Women do pick up on those subtle hints and to many of us it is actually more of a turn on than, say, Prince dry-humping a woman on stage.
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This is so true, and the bolded is too funny.
:rofl:
 
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