Michael Jackson To Unleash World Premiere Experience At Billboard Music Awards

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It is possible to create a super realistic Michael Jackson full CGI model...........we can also track his movements from Archive footage to give you the most technologically advanced and most screen acurate Michael Jackson EVER.

But...........we used an Impersonator with a shit CGI face.......okay?

Masses of people nod yes :D

That is true.

Of course, if you had computer generated in Motion, Final Cut Pro, and Photoshop, the result would have been a robotic looking dancer.

You can't just computer generate a Michael Jackson. There was only one Michael Jackson. There was bound to be disappointment, because Michael isn't here anymore.
 
Allusio;4009044 said:
But they did spend time, work and money to create it! They just need to improve it and give us more details …

If it wasn't good enough yet they shouldn't have done it, I just feel like they could have done pretty much the same thing but with the impersonator and dancers actually on the stage with the background on a screen behind them. The only reason the hologram was used at this point was so that it could look a little bit like Michael and people would be fooled into thinking it was him, it's only really us as hardcore fans that can tell the difference. I've flicked through a few reports and haven't seen much suspicion of it being an impersonator yet so mission accomplished for the general public I guess.

The face looked a little off which I'm sure can be improved on and also the dancing was bad, I know people including myself who could dance better as MJ who would love the opportunity.

But for now, should have scrapped the hologram until it was better and just done a live performance with an impersonator.
 
guys a month ago you wanted this :

cartoon-mj-michael-jackson-31232090-357-259.jpg


Yesterday you got this :

mj-hologram.jpg


and there's still time, videos, singles.... so they can improve it don't act crazy live the f**** moment !!!!
 
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The negativity to this and the album from so called "Hardcore" fans is a joke. You criticise the Estate and LA Reid for everything they do imagine the disaster it would be if MJ's posthumous releases were handled by the "Hardcore" fans. An album of half complete demo's with some verses consisting of la la la's etc. The "Hardcore" fans seem to be selfish wanting to keep MJ's music to themselves whereby other generations should be able to share it. My 12 year of son is loving the album, singing STTR and APWNN in the back of my car. He's not interested in the old stuff this is new to him and thats why he takes his headphones off and listens to it. This album isn't half baked it's top quality with MJ at the centre, his vocals are so in your face it's unbelievable. Casual fans are buying this album it's clear and that is because the promotion is good and the tracks are good. The Estate can't win the video for LNFSG people complained because it was old footage, this performance is criticised when they have tried to do something different and I imagine in the hall would have looked good. Someone on this thread said all future videos should have animation, well lets go the full hog and have him made of plasticine like Jackie Wilson in the Reet Petite video. If there was footage of MJ singing STTR I would expect it to be in the video for the single as there's no doubt in my mind it will be the next single. IMHO
 
That is true.

Of course, if you had computer generated in Motion, Final Cut Pro, and Photoshop, the result would have been a robotic looking dancer.

You can't just computer generate a Michael Jackson. There was only one Michael Jackson. There was bound to be disappointment, because Michael isn't here anymore.

If done correctly you wont get a robotic looking dancer, 2d motion tracking and careful manual skills would match up the animation with Michael, you would literally get Michael's exact movements. They must have so much hours of footage to work from, including static cam studio rehearsals for sure. Thing is once again they went cheap, but hyped it up to be big. it was basically a music video of an impersonator and some backing dancers projected onto a screen, might aswell of used a standard white projection screen :(
 
Couldn't sleep just wanted to clarify my opinion I def think it is Michaels face you can see that but the computer image of it is def lacking. it's def not an impersonator when it comes to the face can't say bout the body though idk
 
It is possible to create a super realistic Michael Jackson full CGI model...........we can also track his movements from Archive footage to give you the most technologically advanced and most screen acurate Michael Jackson EVER.
I hear what you are saying Birchey , Ive heard others say the same. but How do we know that. they can do that ? Can you show what this technology is and give an example of where it has been done before. ? please show me. Im very interested if there is such a thing. Not the Tupac image which is a different technology and doesn't move around the stage and is in the dark. If it can be done or has been done I really want to see it. We can send it to the estate so they can improve the image. But I have never seen anything like what they did on that stage before, with that image . It was amazing. How do they make that look more like MJ singing and dancing to STTR without using a dancer or model for the image. Thanks

ETA
How complicated would it be to get a full performance of him singing and dancing to slave to the Rythm wearing that costume and dancing smoothly on the stage and what footage and technology would they use to do that. What happened on that stage was amazing to me. Please show me something similar so i know what you are speaking about. I want to know what you are saying really exists and has been used. Thanks
 
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Please read ALL of this - before replying . So you know what you are addressing. Thanks.


I sent a message to the Estate with my honest review telling them the CGI image didn't look as much like MJ as I expected and needs improved to look and move more like Michael but the over all production was very beautiful and simply Amazing to watch.

I think what happened on the BBA stage is Amazing. This is new and ground breaking. I agree the CGI Image could look more like MJ but regardless we can't ignore how amazing that performance looked. Also it appears the image looks more like MJ when watching it live than watching it on a TV screen where you can see the imperfections. This isnt actually made for the Screen but for a live audience. I just dont get all the hate. I grow weary over it and find it unwarranted in many cases. Sure they can improve the image to look and move more like MJ but over all this was beautiful and amazing production. Nothing like this has been done before. The audience was mesmerized laughing crying and loved it. I smh at anyone who actually thought they would see a real MJ image dancing on that stage. That is impossible. He is not here to create that image

I admit The media OVER hyped this for sure. but that doesn't mean this wasn't remarkable. Also LA Reid made NO statement of having footage for this virtual Michael. Some one else mis-stated that. Also Christopher Gaspar did not say he was the model for the CGI Image. someone mistranslated that. I also wish it looked and danced more like MJ and I'm sure it will as the technology improves. But Please look at the BIG picture and how beautiful and Amazing this whole production looked on stage. It was a virtual animated MJ not MJ ... The BBA audience went crazy. This is not going to harm MJ or his legacy in any way. IMO



Sums up my thoughts perfectly.

I thought this was incredible, I was in awe watching it as were my house mates who are no where near as big a fan as I am.

Work can always been done to improve, but I think some of you guys want too much and will never be pleased. I know some of you don't like this but Michael is dead. He ain't coming back. He isn't going to be on that stage as a perfect 1:1 representation of himself.
 
Ignore this post it was super early when I wrote this and looking back on it now it makes no sense
 
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If it wasn't good enough yet they shouldn't have done it, I just feel like they could have done pretty much the same thing but with the impersonator and dancers actually on the stage with the background on a screen behind them. The only reason the hologram was used at this point was so that it could look a little bit like Michael and people would be fooled into thinking it was him, it's only really us as hardcore fans that can tell the difference. I've flicked through a few reports and haven't seen much suspicion of it being an impersonator yet so mission accomplished for the general public I guess.

The face looked a little off which I'm sure can be improved on and also the dancing was bad, I know people including myself who could dance better as MJ who would love the opportunity.

But for now, should have scrapped the hologram until it was better and just done a live performance with an impersonator.


And that is why WE NEED MORE DETAILES on that! If it really was made not for the Screen but for a live audience?!

It is just something to start with.
 
It was never going to be 'perfect'. Sadly Michael will never be with us again. I think it was a great attempt at something very different and, for me, it worked. The press are all over this and the majority are more than positive. The audience last night was mesmerised, some were in tears. Did it help to sell albums - undoubtedly. Did it promote Michael and his legacy - absolutely. Will there be new fans - without a doubt. Was it done with the best possible intentions to keep Michael in the spotlight - certainly.
Many of us here have seen Michael perform live in concert, we are blessed. Maybe something like this will give fans who never saw him whilst he was with us have a chance to experience in a very small way a tiny part of the magic just by seeing audience reaction.
Michael himself loved innovation. He would have been clapping his hands at the thoughts of how he could make this kind of thing even better and used something like it himself to entertain us. I am embracing it. Nothing will ever be the same for me now that he is no longer with us but technology moves on.
Check out the press reports and smile. x
 
Quotes about the new recordings/footage with LA Ried....
I learned that Michael’s estate trustees came across undiscovered L.A. Reid recorded footage of Michael that they didn’t know existed. The lawsuit says the music will be a new song, “Slave to the Rhythm.”


But based on Michael filming new recording with undiscovered footage with LA Reid from awhile back

From Robin Leach from yesterday
 
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It is possible to create a super realistic Michael Jackson full CGI model...........we can also track his movements from Archive footage to give you the most technologically advanced and most screen acurate Michael Jackson EVER.

But...........we used an Impersonator with a shit CGI face.......okay?

Masses of people nod yes :D

Dear Birchey. I understand what you are saying and also wish they had done a better job. But, at the end of the day I can not forget that this was just a one-off performance at an awards show. This wasn't a concert or event that the public was paying for. I'm no expert, but I'm guessing that the technological suggestions you've made would have cost a ton of money and taken quite some time to execute. Not sure if this was the time or place to execute such a thing. If it was a movie or even a video meant to be seen up close, over and over again, I would definitely expect more.
 
I hear what you are saying Birchey , Ive heard others say the same . but How do we know that. they can do that ? Can you show what this technology is and give an example of where it has been done before. ? please show me. Im very interested if there is such a thing. Not the Tupac image which is a different technology and doesn't move around the stage and is in the dark. If it can be done or has been done I really want to see it. We can send it to the estate so they can improve the image. But I have never seen anything like what they did on that stage before, with that image . It was amazing. How do they make that look more like MJ with out using a dancer or model. It must have been done before if you know how to do it.

ETA
How complicated would it be to get a full performance of him singing and dancing to slave to the Rythm wearing that costume and dancing smoothly on the stage and what footage and technology would they use to do that. What happened on that stage was amazing to me. Please show me something similar so i know what you are speaking about. I want to know what you are saying really exists and has been used. Thanks

We have been able to select certain things in a flat image for quite some time now, tracking a hand, tracking a head etc, these can be done simultaneously here are a couple examples of home computer software from 3 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzpt05IdGns & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPmzwa5rA_o

This combined with hand placed "markers" could quite effectively capture Michaels movements. Image I placed a white dot on michaels hand whilst his hand is by his side, he trows his hand up and I place the marker there, check the frames in between to make sure the white marker stays with his hand, Bam one limb complete for one move complete. I can't explain it too well, its much like that 2d flip book someone made of Michael dancing. its all about filling in the blanks. Once you have a flat 2d animation, a scale 3d Model of Michael software can fill in the blanks etc.

Thing is today we don't need to do this, everything is 3d motion captured, so it isn't really present anywhere. But its possible, maybe someone else will know what I mean and explain it better.
 
That LA Reid "footage" was PR bull. No part of that was Michael Jackson. It looked nothing like him. It moved nothing like him. That cheesy spotlight dance? I don't care about what the press think as they all hated him when he was really here being the best ever so what they think now doesn't bother me. I am absolutely furious they've done this. It was never going to be perfect but this is so far from even good it was almost laughable. The thing looked like a Sims character. This isn't unnecessary hate or being ungrateful this is simply me stating what I feel and to me, what they've done is a complete joke. If this is what Michael Jackson means, then I can't wait for this stupid impersonator to be put in a music video with Justin Bieber which I have a strong hunch will happen so MJ fans can already cry over that when in reality this is just as bad if not worse.
 
Well I just watched it for the first time and I thought it was quite interesting and entertaining. Do never ever forget that fact that there is only one Michael Jackson and he's not with us physically. After making sure that you have that thought fixed in your mind, realise that every attempt by the estate to capture Michael's talent is done with love and passion. Do not expect a resurrection of some sort. This is the closest we will get, I'm sure. Look at the positives: The whole production looked really impressive and must've taken soooo much preparation to get it done as smoothly as we can see it. I think that's amazing. As far as the face goes, it's really not that far off. Come on guys, think a little optimistic here. The dancing was alright too. There are impersonators out there who are awful to watch. This was really alright for what it was.
 
On an 'open forum I expect people like you. I just don't think that it should be allowed on, what is supposed to be afterall, a pro-MJ forum.

Wow, he is here to support Michael and stand up for Michael just like everyone else. This is a pro Michael Jackson forum but we all have our different ideas about what is right for Michael.

What this all comes down to is people are frustrated because a new project has come out and you all want to enjoy it and you want to come here and read nothing but positive stuff and just want everything to be perfect! It doesn't work that way, you should have been here for the 'Michael' album....boy you would have had fun.

At this point the people speaking out against the people saying negative stuff have become the most annoying. Birchey is a Michael Jackson fan, and if he doesn't like the fact that they have screwed with everything since MJ's death then he is allowed to voice his opinion and he has done so in a respectful manner. I can't say the same about you.
 
I just skimmed the comments and oh my god, you guys are absolutely impossible to impress.
No other artist (other than 2 pac) has the honour of having a hologram and apparently its still not good enough..still the grumbling and hating
seriously i just can't even....
 
Can I ask a couple of questions Birchey;

1)As you are such an expert on everything - producing hit singles/albums (much better than Timberland of course), and pulling off a fantastic MJ set on a major awards show (much better than the one on last night BB awards of course), just being two of them - what the f**k are you doing wasting all day and night on a forum?

2)Are you really 'staff', when it comes to MJJCommunity?

If the answer to question 2 is "yes", then I would seriously have to consider donating any money to a site that employs someone as negative as yourself.

I say negative, as all I ever read from you are digs and snipes at anything released or attempted by The Estate and Sony.

I checked your recent post history just to make sure I wasn't imagining it -and I'm not. Here is a recent comment from you that proves, to me at least, your real motives;

"TBH though everything they have released since MJ passed has been screwed with.."

This is your consistant opinion, and it seems to taint the way you look at everything. You can not be approaching anything with an open mind if that is your true opinion.

If you truly are 'staff' on this site, then I honestly believe you are (ab)using your position to attack and to destroy anything post 2009.

On an 'open forum I expect people like you. I just don't think that it should be allowed on, what is supposed to be afterall, a pro-MJ forum.

Round of applause.

Firstly, I don't claim to be an expert on anything. I have an opinion, I am exercising my right to that opinion. I don't claim to be better than anyone, so cut the crap and stop putting your silly spin on things. Just because I am not a multi-award winning producer or a CGI artist, events organizer or whatever doesn't mean I cannot criticize something. I don't go sniping peoples comments like you seem too and I spend time on this forum as staff, primarily for 2000 Watts, but come outside if something needs doing, for help.

As above I am staff, doesn't stop me from speaking my mind, again I have the right to do that whenever I like. Its called freedom of speech bud, if you don't like my comments just ignore me, I am not asking anyone to listen to me.

I have history with Sony, as some might know, I also have prior knowledge and involvement in some of the projects that have been released, and I know what was done to certain things or left out of certain things etc.

I am VERY open minded, but I also have standards, high standards for Michael.

Abusing my position by posting my opinion? Dude you want to sift through my comments thats cool, I have been here a LONG time, and have helped alot of people, been a shoulder to cry on, hell even cried myself made friends and had alot of fun.

Anyhow, this forum is Pro-MJ, I am Pro-MJ have been since I was 3, you don't have to the Pro-everything released after 2009 to be Pro-MJ ;)

Next time please just PM Gaz or something,
 
Wow! Just googled Michael Jackson. Lots of positive reviews about the performance in many major news outlets. Also lots of stories about debuting at number 1 in the UK. Nice to read some positive things
 
Also I am not employed by MJJC, just hang around doing "staff" like things..........you need one grumpy guy on the staff right and I don't mind openly discussing myself on the forums, we shouldn't really lets get back on topic, please Smooth PM Gaz if theres a problem or PM me if you want to.
 
I had to force myself to watch that performance.. like another memember said - that looked nothing like Mike. Since his passing its no more uncool to be a MJ fan and a lot of people have jumped the MJ fan bandwagon. The same media who are now praising mediocre demos and the hologram performaces were trashing Mike wen he was releasing good music and giving awesome performaces in his later years.

Even though Im gald that the media have bcom kind to Mike lately... a lot of the praise that they have showered on him lately is honestly, underserving. Critics who are saying Xscape is better than History/BOTDF and dangerous are trend followers.

and with regards to Birchey - track for track his versions are way better than wats been officially released. Infact in my opinion his Morphine version is even better that the original version. So yes people like Birchey, DJ Oxygene and Chantalou are doing a better job than big names who have officially worked on Posthumous projects.
 
It is possible to create a super realistic Michael Jackson full CGI model...........we can also track his movements from Archive footage to give you the most technologically advanced and most screen acurate Michael Jackson EVER.
I worked on (academic and business) projects related to pattern recognition, image analysis etc. which is very important, actually the basis for process/software for creation of the objects in the virtual world and what you said is a very simplified view of the extremely complex things. It's as if someone said, it is very easy to make spacecraft, just remade some aircraft.
Today it is relatively easy to create a real person, a human, an animal or a fictitious being, but to recreate an actual known person (celebrity) doing very complex unique actions is an extremely difficult task.
 
I worked on (academic and business) projects related to pattern recognition, image analysis etc. which is very important, actually the basis for process/software for creation of the objects in the virtual world and what you said is a very simplified view of the extremely complex things. It's as if someone said, it is very easy to make spacecraft, just remade some aircraft.
Today it is relatively easy to create a real person, a human, an animal or a fictitious being, but to recreate an actual known person (celebrity) doing very complex unique actions is an extremely difficult task.

Yes, difficult, but possible. Best bet would be manually matching "markers" say for the hand throughout the archive footage of Michael? It would be much like 2d animation, then with the task of applying a 3d model, the correct depth etc? I just wish they gave the face model as much loving care and attention to this.

 
This seems to be such a 'slippery slope' that the Estate are standing on. I love that Michael is getting so much great publicity for this album, and I love that the Estate have gone to such tremendous efforts to promote the album. However, at the bottom of the slope is a dancer pretending to be MJ dancing to a version of a song that MJ never heard ..and the 'general public' thinking this was how MJ was....and he was so much better than this.

The hologram performance made me cry. Not because I hated it, but because it reminded me so acutely that nothing can replace Michael.
Just wanted to say I agree. It certainly gets people talking, and many people heard STTR now, and hopefully they'll want it. :) They should just represent this for what it actually was, and hopefully they will in the coming days. It was a tribute performance, in the end. Just makes me cringe a bit when they said "... Michael Jackson", cuz I need non-fans to know that Michael was so much better than this! MJ deserved (and earned) that golden throne for REALZ! :bow:

This was basically like the visual version of the Cascio tracks to me. Nowhere near as bad or disrespectful, but not worlds away.
So kind of like a Casciogram? :lol:

Casciogram - n. A hologram officially purported to be the real Michael Jackson, but instead created using an impersonator. Origin: please, don't ask...
 
About the eras they might have based Virtual Michael on. I saw this

522_1MJ_1997__on_throne__Benson72dpi.jpg


5379afe27a6a2.jpg


and I saw this

i63725317._szw530h275_.jpg


michael-jackson-hologram.jpg


So for me I would say 1991 through to 1997
 
So kind of like a Casciogram? :lmao:

Casciogram - n. A hologram officially purported to be the real Michael Jackson, but instead created using an impersonator.

Apparently a Casciogram involves projecting a Goat onto a special screen through a PVC pipe.
 
It wasn't perfect and you could really tell it's some impersonator of MJ, especially when he did the sidewalk to the left side when MJ only does it to the right side and many small movements that MJ does a lil differently in his unique way, but no computer or person in the world can execute his dance like he did it, they can never come close to what MJ would've done because MJ's talent & vision is hundreds of years ahead of everybody so it's impossible to do something close to what he would've done, so we shouldn't be mad about this hologram or the albums they might put out in the future in fact they should release it all in time as long as they include untouched demos like he left them so MJ didn't waste his time making it all.Even though MJ might not have liked those demos but that's because he was a perfectionist and nothing is good enough for him i bet even Billie Jean isn't good enough for him lol but to us everything is good as long as he's singing so yeah everything from now on should be taken as a bonus not be complained about unless they do what they did on "MICHAEL" -_- & as long as it keeps MJ's name alive and makes people talk about him in a good way then it's all good.
 
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