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Michael - The Great Album Debate

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I read some fe lines about the tribute concert and just couldn't read further as the tribute seems to be alien to whatever MJ was about. Is it true that KISS will perform in that concert?
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I believe KISS was pulled from the concert...Either way, it shouldn't be happening..
 
StellaJackson said:
I think that's the problem. There weren't as many complete tracks lying round as they thought. Certainly not hundreds as has been speculated. When they were presented with the opportunity to acquire 12 complete contemporary MJ songs from a seemingly reliable source, they jumped at the chance.
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For a musician such as Michael Jackson I just don't believe he didn't have any songs in his own basement.

What happened, in my opinion, is that MJ tried (and he successfully did it) to hide the maximum he could from SONY. So the ones who do not possess his unreleased songs is SONY, not MJ. I still believe there are hundreds of songs out there. Music was his life, he had plenty of time in his life to do any music he wanted and any songs he wanted. The only reason maybe they are not considered for a release is that they might not be radio friendly. But as a fan, I don't care, I just want them.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I read some fe lines about the tribute concert and just couldn't read further as the tribute seems to be alien to whatever MJ was about. Is it true that KISS will perform in that concert?
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After the furious reactions from fans, the Estate issued a letter to the organizer expressing disappointment about having KISS in the line-up. The Estate also has concerns about the charity donation arrangement and other issues. MJJC along with more than 30 other fan clubs issued an open letter to the organizers and stated that the fan clubs do not support the tribute concert. As a result, the organizers rescinded its offer to KISS. KISS is now taken away from the performers' line-up.

The artists who are confirmed to perform are Smokey Robinson, Christina Aguillera, Ce Lo Green, Leona Lewis, Ne-Yo and some other UK x-factor alumni. Beyonce will perform "via satalite" - her recorded performance will be projected to the giant screen in the stadium.

Randy Jackson, Jermaine Jackson and Janet Jackson do not support the concert citing the timing of the concert, October 8, to be too difficult for them (The Conray Murray trial will start on September 27).

Despite all of the above, the organizers seem to continue with their plan. Unless ticket sales is really bad, the concert will likely to take place.

To conclude, it's a mess!
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
For a musician such as Michael Jackson I just don't believe he didn't have any songs in his own basement.

What happened, in my opinion, is that MJ tried (and he successfully did it) to hide the maximum he could from SONY. So the ones who do not possess his unreleased songs is SONY, not MJ. I still believe there are hundreds of songs out there. Music was his life, he had plenty of time in his life to do any music he wanted and any songs he wanted. The only reason maybe they are not considered for a release is that they might not be radio friendly. But as a fan, I don't care, I just want them.
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But that's the thing, posthumous album releases clearly aren't for the fans...Which is why those songs are on the album, despite the outrage from his biggest fans...The album obviously sold well enough that they'll continue to do what they want...It's the general public that they can fool easily...
 
love is magical said:
After the furious reactions from fans, the Estate issued a letter to the organizer expressing disappointment about having KISS in the line-up. The Estate also has concerns about the charity donation arrangement and other issues. MJJC along with more than 30 other fan clubs issued an open letter to the organizers and stated that the fan clubs do not support the tribute concert. As a result, the organizers rescinded its offer to KISS. KISS is now taken away from the performers' line-up.

The artists who are confirmed to perform are Smokey Robinson, Christina Aguillera, Ce Lo Green, Leona Lewis, Ne-Yo and some other UK x-factor alumni. Beyonce will perform "via satalite" - her recorded performance will be projected to the giant screen in the stadium.

Randy Jackson, Jermaine Jackson and Janet Jackson do not support the concert citing the timing of the concert, October 8, to be too difficult for them (The Conray Murray trial will start on September 27).

Despite all of the above, the organizers seem to continue with their plan. Unless ticket sales is really bad, the concert will likely to take place.

To conclude, it's a mess!
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Arklove already answered my question. :D

Joke set aside. My reaction is: vultures!
 
Pentum said:
http://hulkshare.com/q5pmqgedhrgj
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Yes indeed. Jason and the Cascio singer pronounce "WAITING" with a "T" like the British do (and even sometimes it is omitted). Michael pronounces it with a "D" as it should be pronounced in American English.

If the singer on the Cascio tracks isn't Jason, it might be a British imitating the American pronunciation forgetting some conversions o "T" into "D"

It would be interesting to check if there are words such as "BOTTLE" or "CITY" in the Cascio songs and hear if the singer says uk[SITI] or us[SIDI].

p.s. Or maybe Jason lives in a region where "t" are pronounced [T] and not [D]
 
I can't really hear Jason singing WAITING with a "T"? Can't hear a T at all.

I hear Jason and Cascio singer: WAI'N and I hear Michael: WAIRING, WAITING. (I know it looks stupid, but I just write how I hear them).
 
Pentum said:
I can't really hear Jason singing WAITING with a "T"? Can't hear a T at all.

I hear Jason and Cascio singer: WAI'N and I hear Michael: WAIRING, WAITING. (I know it looks stupid, but I just write how I hear them).
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Well I must admit that I have quite a lot of noise around me and that I couldn't carefully listen to your comparisons. But I thought I heard him saying [T], which would be actually extremely unusual for an American.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Well I must admit that I have quite a lot of noise around me and that I couldn't carefully listen to your comparisons. But I thought I heard him saying [T], which would be actually extremely unusual for an American.
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Listen with no noise, lol. Jason's accent makes him sing "WAI'N", he just drops the "-TING" part.

MJ however, sings either "WAITING (like in HMH)" or "WAIRING" like in DYKWYCA.

coolcat75 said:
Whats the first song in the comparison?
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Black Widow.

... Joking. "What Does It Take".
 
Pentum said:
Listen with no noise, lol. Jason's accent makes him sing "WAI'N", he just drops the "-TING" part.

MJ however, sings either "WAITING (like in HMH)" or "WAIRING" like in DYKWYCA.


Black Widow.

... Joking. "What Does It Take".
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MJ's "waiRing" is actually a [D]. The [D] is very close to a rolled [R]
 
That waiting comparison is fantastic. That's one of the first things my mum pointed out back in December. "Why has Michael started pronouncing his words just like that Malachi?" Lol.
 
I found a video of impersonator Jean Walker (taxi driver) singing a bit of Keep Your Head Up acapella.

 
StellaJackson said:
Interesting answers Ivy. If you believe the songs are Michael, then are you able to answer the following questions?
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well actually I wouldn't answer in detail due to your approach. what I mean is if everything labelled as an "excuse" then there's no need for me spending my valuable time responding to anything. that's what has stopped me from really responding to anything here. I feel people aren't interesting in a "discussion" but they are actually looking for "confirmation" such as people going "that ain't michael" and "i know it's not him".

1) Can you explain why the vibrato, pronounciation and accent are a match for Jason Cupeta and not Michael Jackson?
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personal opinion. ears and comparison videos cannot determine "exact match". if you feel they match fine, there are other people that simply do not agree with this. so it's not an "exact" or "factual" thing. It's just an personal opinion.

2) Can you explain why the vocalist snorts when taking a breath in the same way that Jason Cupeta does? Something which Michael has never done.
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actually i think one snort is more nasal then the other. Malachi's sound - to me - more like a inferior breathing technique.

3) Can you explain why Michael sounds 20 years younger on these songs?
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I never felt this way. and again don't mix up what you think with what is a certain fact.

4) Why is it that despite being recorded in the same place and at the same time, Michael's vocals sound perfectly normal on WBSS 2008?
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level of processing. such as if that vocals aren't speed up but these are speed up, if these ones went through pitch correction, vibrato editing etc, these are bound to sound "different". btw "Same place" isn't enough to sound exactly the same. mics used, performance, recording technique etc alone can make a person sound different.

5) Why did Teddy Riley feel the need to lie about the vibrato, stating that it was the result of his processing, when in fact, it is present on the versions as they existed before Teddy Riley received them?
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perhaps cascio's processed them? and how do you know for a fact it existed before? I personally do not think what people think is "raw" vocals isn't the raw vocals.

6) Why did Michael complete 12 songs vocally, yet failed to do any of his trademark adlibs on any of them, meaning that they had to be pasted on from previous records?
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learn about guide vocals. guide vocals are the initial vocals you do to guide the musicians so that they can get a feel of the song when they play. after instruments are done, vocalists records the actual lead vocals (guide vocals are discarded) and then comes the adlibs. These songs were just at step 1. it wasn't the time to record ad libs.

7) Why are the trademark aspects of Michael's recording process, such as handclaps, finger snaps, headphone bleeding etc, absent from every take of every song?
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ask that to Michael. I find it likely that not everyone is Swedien and actually they went in and cleaned such things.

8) Why were we told that each song is one take when in fact, there are multiple takes on each song?
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says who? for example birchey had told that water as one take.

9) Why, despite the controversy and accusations against them, the Cascio's have failed to provide one shred of evidence that Michael recorded these songs? He supposedly contributed to the writing of 12 songs yet left no notes whatsoever?
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discussed this before in detail. they aren't required as they weren't challenged, they didn't want to do it as people were accusing them, they didn't want to show their hand if they were ever sued, they wanted the topic to die so they didn't want to provide more fuel to the fire etc etc.. take your pick.

10) Why did it take almost a year after Michael's death for these songs to materialise? The Mj Songbook registration does not state any titles. The individual song titles were not known to anyone, outside of Cascio and Porte until May 2010. The individual titles were registered with the BMI this year. There is no evidence of the existence of these 12 songs prior to May last year.
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not true. copyright registration allows multiple unreleased songs to be registered as a "collection" but single songs exists and written. MJ Estate as the representative of MJ would have access to such as they are the co-copyright owners. It might not be "public" but it doesn't mean that they don't exist or other people have access to it. Evidence of the existence of these 12 songs are present in the copy submitted to the copyright office - which can be given in the case of a lawsuit btw.

11) Jason Cupeta has used his similarity to Michael's voice to further his own career. Why the sudden change of character now? Why has he dissappeared from the online space completely? If he has nothing to hide, why is he hiding?
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Ask it to Jason. As far as I can tell from Thad (his manager) he wasn't happy about all the hate and attacks he was receiving.

12) Before any of us even heard Breaking News, there were clearly concerns behind the scenes, with the Estate contacting Thad Nauden etc? Why are our concerns not taken equally as seriously?
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in regards to knowledge : experts > fans. similarly look to the recent tribute concert events. before they announced it jermaine and randy was against it. after they announced it fans are against it. but yet it is still going on. you / we can make noise to get our opinions heard but in the end of the day someone else is going to make the decisions and it might not be always the decisions that we like. it's called life.

13) Why have they failed to provide any proof of the supposed tests that were conducted on these vocals?
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they are not required to. they might have chose to be more transparent or not. in this instance they choose not to. why doesn't taco bell release their meat content? because it's their proprietary information and they can determine whatever they want to do with it. again it's life. it doesn't always go as we want it to go.

14) Now that it's been shown that you don't have to download it, as it can be streamed from several places, have you listened to Burn 2Nite? There is a reason why, since it leaked, a number of believers have changed their minds. If you have listened to it, do you hear Michael Jackson on that song? If you haven't listened to it, then perhaps you should, as it is one of the most damning aspects of this situation so far.
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I haven't. I'm not searching for it. I honestly aren't that invested in this topic. but I can tell you that flip - flop opinions has never been my thing.

15) The above points are evidence that there is something seriously wrong with these records. Can you provide anything, one snippet, one comparison, anything that proves it is Michael???
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no those are just personal opinions and one sided view to portray that something is wrong with these records. other people can approach it from other perspectives and can write different scenarios such as it was low quality guide vocals - hence no characteristics, it required processing to be presentable - hence difference in voice, vibrato etc, people decided to go quiet on this topic and hold on to their cards so that they would be prepared for a lawsuit etc etc.

people have said before "all backvocals are michael" or "boy part is michael" etc. there have been lyrics written with which parts michael which parts are porte. all of those are rejected.

Fans like me do not have the time or money to file lawsuits against a corporation like Sony. All we can do is get our money back on the album from where we bought it from. As has been demonstrated time and again, the Jacksons won't file a lawsuit unless they themselves have money to make.
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then I would recommend to learn to let it go and not be this much invested in this subject.
 
ivy said:
in regards to knowledge : experts > fans.
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Not looking for a debate as I said I stopped, but let's not forget that among a huge number of MJ's fans there are experts too. So either the inequation isn't fair or the terms are inappropriate. I'd rather say "contract employees" > fans


p.s. Their contract doesn't make them more expert.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Not looking for a debate as I said I stopped, but let's not forget that among a huge number of MJ's fans there are experts too. So either the inequation isn't fair or the terms are inappropriate. I'd rather say "contract employees" > fans


p.s. Their contract doesn't make them more expert.
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I'm not gonna argue as well but in my book for example Bruce Swedien > any fan .

edited to add: and both in academia and in legal testimony credentials is everything. so again technically a guy with a PhD and with 20 years expertise in voice recognition would be > than a 20 year MJ fan.
 
ivy said:
I'm not gonna argue as well but in my book for example Bruce Swedien > any fan .
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Well, then you exclude a bunch of people who are both Michael's fans and experts who actually worked with him too. That way, of course, it is easy to make inequations. Don't forget to include in your book all the experts who did not voice themselves.

Regarding Bruce Swedien, I don't see why he would be lees wrong than any fan, or the other way round, I don't see why fans wouldn't be more right than Bruce. The question is, has Bruce ever heard MJ's impersonators before claiming anything?
 
KingMikeJ said:
He shouldn't have to. He knows Michael's voice.
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Oh so we all do, including DJs, family, and many others who still haven't expressed themselves. When people will understand that even most prominent experts can be wrong.
 
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