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Michael - The Great Album Debate

OnirMJ said:
And you are still refusing to accept the truth and listen the songs with your own ears. Instead you read Frank's books and believe in his words.
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The songs sound like MJ to me, and they must do to you too, otherwise your whole notion of an impersonator being used to fool people falls on its face -- unless we're talking about the first impersonator in history who doesn't sound like the person he's supposed to be impersonating. But then why would he have been known of, let alone hired for the job?

Anyway, this is all the same stuff that I've explained a million times over. I only came here to discuss the added bit of information that this "too bad" phrase represents in "Al Capone".
 
SoCav said:
He never said it was MJ on those songs specifically, I just checked the footage again and WildStyle is right about that. He just said MJ is singing on the album and that he recorded in Angelikson Studios for the Thriller 25 album (which is just proof that the whole 'the studio is inferior' explanation for the weird vocals does not make sense).

He cannot say at the same time that it does not sound like MJ on the internet version but that it does on the album version - both those versions were identical. Other than that it is really easy, and I think rather weak, to throw out some words like money and jealousy and hinting that John McClain is the culprit in all of this (he pretends to not want to get into it but apparently has no problem dropping John McClain's name in there), without mentioning anything to back up his case.
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So you're saying Frank Cascio is lying, knows that the songs are fake, and is covering for his brother? He's part of the conspiracy too, despite, by all accounts, being an incredibly nice, loving, pro-MJ, honest person? You're making that accusation against another person?
 
kreen said:
The songs sound like MJ to me, and they must do to you too, otherwise your whole notion of an impersonator being used to fool people falls on its face -- unless we're talking about the first impersonator in history who doesn't sound like the person he's supposed to be impersonating. But then why would he have been known of, let alone hired for the job?

Anyway, this is all the same stuff that I've explained a million times over. I only came here to discuss the added bit of information that this "too bad" phrase represents in "Al Capone".
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They sound nothing like MJ to me and to most of the people, especially fans. They sound like Jason Malachi to me or some other unknown impersonator. He sounds like he's trying to sing like MJ, that's what impersonators do. They are impersonators not clones, they have different voice, pronunciation and they don't have 40 years experience. They would hire him because they thought that they can make some easy money and fool people like you.

And about Al Capone "Too Bad" part and Monster "Too Bad" part, they sound totally different, 2 different people.
 
Unlike you, always jumping to completely unfounded conclusions (e.g. "MJ sang "too bad" before, proof he wrote Monster!"), I am merely pointing out the inconsistencies in Frank's answers and the vagueness of his accusations. Am I 100% sure that he is lying? No. But his answers are certainly not convincing for me. He also seems horribly uncomfortable and having difficulty to come up with a response (he seems a bit better prepared and less uncomfortable during the interview than during the Q&A - still resorts to vague or irrelevant answers though). Given all this and because the vocals on the tracks sound nothing like MJ and the fact that we still have not been shown any proof that he is in any way involved with these songs, I certainly think it is possible that he is lying, yes.
 
SoCav said:
because the vocals on the tracks sound nothing like MJ .
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"the vocals on the tracks sound nothing like MJ" : this is like a mantra for the anti-Cascio people, even though it's been explained a million times that they CAN'T believe that if they think an impersonator was used, hired and fooled enough people to actually get on an official album, get money for the conspirators, and then get away with it legally. This only way this hoax could be perpetrated is if they got a great impersonator who really does sound a lot like MJ. So like I've said a million times, any anti-Cascio person that both holds that "the vocals sound nothing like MJ" and that "an impersonator sings 3 of the tracks on the album "Michael"" is holding a self-defeating position.

I have more time for those who admit the Cascio singer sounds pretty similar to MJ, but not quite. That is at least not self-contradictory.

As for Frank Cascio, if he is lying, it means so is the WHOLE Cascio family -- including papa and mama. Apart from the fact that no conspiracy can be sustained when it is both complex and dependent on the absolute silence of a large number of people -- people who, by being part of the conspiracy in the first place, are untrustworthy by definition -- I'll just point out that you guys are doing EXACTLY what the media and the general public have done against MJ his whole life through : accuse good people of having done bad things, with no proof at all.

One last point, which illustrates the inconsistency. Some of you have managed to turn Frank Cascio's clear denial of a hoax into a vague quasi-admission of a hoax -- remarkable! You say that by saying "It's Michael on the CD", he was telling a misleading half-truth and meant "It's MJ on SOME of the tracks, but not all". Ok, but if he's dishonest enough to be a part of this conspiracy and not expose it, why would he be honest enough to not flat-out say "it's Michael on all of the songs, even on the Cascio tracks"? Why would he feel the need to be KINDA truthful to a bunch of fans he doesn't know from Adam, when he's such a liar he accepts to be part of the conspiracy in the first place? This is just one example of the psychological contradictions that one would have to accept in order to believe the hoax theory.


If you say, "well he's trying to defend his brotherrying to defend his brother But of course, that means that Frank Cascio would be honest enough not to flat-out lie to a bunch of French fans he doesn't know from Adam at a promotion event.
 
LOL at the argument "too bad" in Al Capone, thus MJ wrote Monster!!!! *lmao*
 
kreen said:
"the vocals on the tracks sound nothing like MJ" : this is like a mantra for the anti-Cascio people, even though it's been explained a million times that they CAN'T believe that if they think an impersonator was used, hired and fooled enough people to actually get on an official album, get money for the conspirators, and then get away with it legally. This only way this hoax could be perpetrated is if they got a great impersonator who really does sound a lot like MJ. So like I've said a million times, any anti-Cascio person that both holds that "the vocals sound nothing like MJ" and that "an impersonator sings 3 of the tracks on the album "Michael"" is holding a self-defeating position.
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And we have explained to you a million times that we mean that on the surface the singer of course might have some similarities to MJ (as, indeed, he is an MJ impersonator after all), which might fool a casual listener who is unfamiliar with MJ's voice. However, when you go beyond this surface level, there are countless differences (pronunciation, accent, power of the voice, vibrato, and so on).

This is just a game of semantics and you know it.

I'll just point out that you guys are doing EXACTLY what the media and the general public have done against MJ his whole life through : accuse good people of having done bad things, with no proof at all.
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Here we go again... :smilerolleyes: And this is coming from the guy who said hideous things about Michael on this very board, with no proof at all.

One last point, which illustrates the inconsistency. Some of you have managed to turn Frank Cascio's clear denial of a hoax into a vague quasi-admission of a hoax -- remarkable! You say that by saying "It's Michael on the CD", he was telling a misleading half-truth and meant "It's MJ on SOME of the tracks, but not all". Ok, but if he's dishonest enough to be a part of this conspiracy and not expose it, why would he be honest enough to not flat-out say "it's Michael on all of the songs, even on the Cascio tracks"? Why would he feel the need to be KINDA truthful to a bunch of fans he doesn't know from Adam, when he's such a liar he accepts to be part of the conspiracy in the first place? This is just one example of the psychological contradictions that one would have to accept in order to believe the hoax theory.
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Because lying is not easy and a very uncomfortable experience. People would rather avoid flat-out lying as much as possible. The statement that Michael's vocals are featured on the cd would in and of itself not be a lie, as of course no one disputes that. Although it is obvious that that answer would here be interpreted as 'it is MJ on the Cascio tracks', it is easier to tell such a half-truth rather than a bold-faced lie. It helps reduce the anxiety associated with telling the lie.

Again, I'm not saying that this is necessarily what is going on, but if Frank is lying, this could explain why he could be 'kinda truthful' as you put it. Another potential example of this kind that has been mentioned by doubters is Teddy Riley claiming that the vocals are real and then only explicitly referring to MJ's 'screams' (which we know are sampled and thus indeed MJ).
 
I would also like to draw attention to the fact that MJ was always able to sing in a deeper voice as I had already demonstrated with "Get It" song from BAD era. Now, with new snippets, I think that everyone realized how deep he could sing. Those who pretended that MJ's voice changed in the Cascio songs because of age is flat beaten by those new demos that we have heard in addition to the song "Get It".

The fact is, MJ could sing deep back then and before his death. Another fact is, MJ's voice timbre did not change. Listen to "Price Of Fame", listen to "Al Capone", listen to "Who Is It", listen to "Privacy" and listen to "Hollywood Tonight". The same gritty and deep voice with the same timbre. And then compare to the Cascio choked and struggling voice in the fabricated songs, and you'll see that huge difference between MJ and the Cascio vocalist.
 
SoCav said:
I think rather weak, to throw out some words like money and jealousy and hinting that John McClain is the culprit in all of this (he pretends to not want to get into it but apparently has no problem dropping John McClain's name in there), without mentioning anything to back up his case.
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he explains his issue with McClain in his book dating back to 2001. Perhaps you might want to read it.
 
Ivy gets a % for each "Gospel according to Frank" that is sold :D
 
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ivy said:
he explains his issue with McClain in his book dating back to 2001. Perhaps you might want to read it.
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I read his book. I remember that he wrote about other issues with McClain (the YRMW video, for instance), but do not remember him talking about McClain with regards to the Cascio tracks. But I might have forgotten. What did he say?

Edit: come to think of it, I think he did bring up his name with regards to the Cascio tracks. But I don't think he really said much more than some vague references to political games being played (thus, basically the same he did in this interview). I might be misremembering though, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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SoCav said:
I read his book. I remember that he wrote about other issues with McClain (the YRMW video, for instance), but do not remember him talking about McClain with regards to the Cascio tracks. But I might have forgotten. What did he say?

Edit: come to think of it, I think he did bring up his name with regards to the Cascio tracks. But I don't think he really said much more than some vague references to political games being played (thus, basically the same he did in this interview). I might be misremembering though, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
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He basically said due to YRMW video event and his firings of Evvy Tavasci etc. and Frank making sure that they were rehired. They butted heads and they hated each other. He believes McClain's position against Cascio tracks and his brother Eddie is mainly based on his dislike towards Frank.
 
3T didn't like the songs because they hate the Cascio's, McClain allegedly didn't like the songs because of beef with Frank, the Jacksons didn't like the songs because of jealousy of Michael's self proclaimed "surrogate family", and the fans don't like the songs because of some sort of allegiance to the Jackson family? Nothing to do with the vocals? Do I have this about right? :rollin:
 
Nope,you get it wrong.Some of MJ's siblings hated Cascio tracks because they hated both John Branca and John McClain.That’s the reason why we got new Jackson 5 try to kick them out with an aggressive public letter before Bad 25 project launches :D
 
I think that many people here don't seem to get it. We are not discussing the taste here. On the contrary, even many doubters have openly admitted that those Cascio tracks are catchy. Furhtermore, they aren't that bad generally speaking for a random artist. But the focus is on whether it is MJ singing them. What surprises me is that no believer seems to have trouble with the voice timbre on those tracks. How is it possible not to hear that choked and struggling voice in the Cascio tracks? The "color" of that voice doesn't belong to MJ.

Now, if the believers don't bother questioning the odd voice, haven't believers asked themselves how is it even possible that MJ had worked with so many different artists and that with none of them he had recorded 12 entire songs!

MJ loooooved Bee Gees, Diana Ross, James Brown, and many, many more. How many songs has he recorded with them? Count it.

Now, don't tell me that the Cascios were the only friends to MJ's. MJ had many friends and if he had to record 12 songs with one family can you imagine how many other songs he would have recorded with his other friends.

Let us also remember that we still do not have a single minute trace of those Cascio songs on any MJ's piece of paper or notebook, or anything. 12 entire songs that he --according to Eddy-- was ready to release!!! Not to mention that the Cascio family is not to be seen in his testament at all --talking about a surrogate family, yeah.
 
OnirMJ said:
Yes, me too. It is the same phrase. It would be very interesting comparison. I'm sure someone will do it.
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And that's where all similarities end, as far as I'm concerned.

TheSilentOne said:
Not that it proves anything, but Frank Cascio wrote in his book that he used to listen to Michael's unreleased songs in a bathroom at Neverland. So I guess it's save to assume that Eddie heard some of the unreleased songs as well.
(I miss fulltext search in paper books so much)
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He might have heard them, but not listen to them. Too bad.

Korgnex said:
@OnirMJ: It is James Porte's vocals. You can ask the dudes that worked on a remix.
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I prefer to listen with my own ears. I heard another song sung by James Porte and he has a different voice. The voice in 'Too bad' at 0.51 in the song 'Monster' is the same as the leadsingers voice and that's not James Porte.

My opinion: Too bad in Al Capone= sung like it should be sung, feisty. It contributes to the song.
Too bad in Monster=whining (too baaaaaaaaad, yawn....). It rapes the song.

These are only two words, but it perfectly illustrates the difference between the singers. One who knew how to convey emotions in a song and one who's voice just sounds a little bit like Michael (not to me, but obviously to a lot of fans).
 
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I prefer the truth, screenshots back it up. It's also clear in earlier mixes and the remix. This is James Porte.
 
If "too bad" is sung by James Porte in "Monster", then there is more than one vocalist trying to sound like MJ on those Cascio songs, James Porte being one of them.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
If "too bad" is sung by James Porte in "Monster", then there is more than one vocalist trying to sound like MJ on those Cascio songs, James Porte being one of them.
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And in that case James Porte sings half of the song.
 
Korgnex said:
I prefer the truth, screenshots back it up. It's also clear in earlier mixes and the remix. This is James Porte.
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Korgnex, just to clear this up, are you referring to the lead vocals that you can hear at 0.51 and 0.56 or the background vocals that you can only hear at 0.51 (and then go on with the 'jumping like you should' part)?


 
Korgnex said:
I prefer the truth, screenshots back it up. It's also clear in earlier mixes and the remix. This is James Porte.
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This is simply not true, no matter what a screenshot has told you or someone else. The part could've been mislabeled in the screenshot as well. However, James Porte might be heard in the bg vocals of the "Tooo baaad", but clearly not the lead singer.I filtered it to make the voice clearer + slowed it down after: http://soundcloud.com/pentum/2-bad-jasonThis is CLEARLY the lead singer, NOT James Porte. And sorry for messy post, I am using a proxy server, because my IP or something is somehow banned from the site
 
Pentum said:
This is simply not true, no matter what a screenshot has told you or someone else. The part could've been mislabeled in the screenshot as well. However, James Porte might be heard in the bg vocals of the "Tooo baaad", but clearly not the lead singer.I filtered it to make the voice clearer + slowed it down after: http://soundcloud.com/pentum/2-bad-jasonThis is CLEARLY the lead singer, NOT James Porte. And sorry for messy post, I am using a proxy server, because my IP or something is somehow banned from the site
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Exactly, if Korgnex is referring to the lead singer at 0.51 and 0.56 as being James Porte, then surely he must think Porte sings lead the rest of the song too? But I think he is referring to the background vocals.
 
He might be, but it didn't look like he did.Anyway, I for one do not even care about the BG vocals. Could be Michael here and there hidden (even though I really, really doubt it), but the LEAD vocals, the main singer in the song, is not MJ.
 
Again (not for the first time): "background vocals" and "background singer" does NOT mean those vocals are always in the background or the singer is limited to this. Feel free to look up proper definitions for the term.
"Too bad" is mixed 2 times in the foreground, it is exactly the same voice as in the background later. On the earlier mixes this can be recognized easily, on the leaked version and the album version it appears to be boosted and has a doubler effect on it (the 2 instances it's in the foreground).
On the remix you can also hear the Porte vocals more prominently.

Listen to this, first is what you guys call "lead" (because it's in the FOREGROUND) which is James Porte's backing vocals nonetheless, 2nd is James Porte again (in the background).
It's both the same voice and it IS James Porte - as a matter of fact. (I can prove this in court.)
PorteFORG_and_BACKG

Now enough of this pointless discussion. Some people got the proper info and that's all I care about for now.
 
Korgnex said:
Again (not for the first time): "background vocals" and "background singer" does NOT mean those vocals are always in the background or the singer is limited to this. Feel free to look up proper definitions for the term.
"Too bad" is mixed 2 times in the foreground, it is exactly the same voice as in the background later. On the earlier mixes this can be recognized easily, on the leaked version and the album version it appears to be boosted and has a doubler effect on it (the 2 instances it's in the foreground).
On the remix you can also hear the Porte vocals more prominently.

Listen to this, first is what you guys call "lead" (because it's in the FOREGROUND) which is James Porte's backing vocals nonetheless, 2nd is James Porte again (in the background).
It's both the same voice and it IS James Porte - as a matter of fact. (I can prove this in court.)
PorteFORG_and_BACKG
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Not sure if I understand your distinction between lead and background vocals. In the YouTube video you can clearly differentiate the lead vocals from the background vocals at 0.51 and 0.56. At 0.51 both the lead and background vocals are "too bad." At 0.56, the lead vocals are again "too bad" but this time the background vocals are "Hollywood got you jumping like you should."

In any case, in the snippet you posted, you posted the background vocals twice (the second time you can hear a piece of the lead vocal *"drunk enough to fall"* as well). I have no trouble believing Porte is singing BG vocals. However, I also hear the voice of the lead singer (clearly Malachi imo) in the background vocals (even the second time when the lead is also sung over it) in your snippet. It is a bit less clear in the snippet you posted because you cut it relatively early and thus missed the characteristic vibrato.
 
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