Michael - The Great Album Debate

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

As far as we, the listeners, are informed, the supposed MJ does not sing a duet with James Porte, but with 50 Cents. So why the f... is James Porte singing "too bad" in forefront which oddly sounds as an imitation of MJ's voice!

 

[Korgnex]

In any case, in the snippet you posted, you posted the background vocals twice (the second time you can hear a piece of the lead vocal *"drunk enough to fall"* as well).

The first one in that snippet is from what you guys call "lead" (foreground vox). I only adjusted volume and removed bass.
And what happened? You can now hear it's the same.
You cannot do this yourself though as I used an earlier mix to make this. If you want I can post those few seconds to show you I really took the "lead" (foreground vocals) and the background vocals - which you claimed to be two different persons (You said you would have no problem to acknowledge James Porte's singing it in the background later).

 

[Chamife]

@OnirMJ: It is James Porte's vocals. You can ask the dudes that worked on a remix.

Thanks for the link, but I can't open it. Don't know why not..

Did the guys you are referring to work for Majestic Music Factory on the Cascio songs in 2009?

I found this, but maybe it's old news: http://www.majesticmusic.com/news.html

July 2009: We spent 2 weeks recording tracks and doing rough mixes for Michael Jackson. We were working with producers James Porte and Eddie “Angel” Cascio who had been co-writing with Michael for an upcoming album. We were stunned to hear the news of Michael’s death shortly after delivering the tracks that he would sing to. Michael was an incredible talent and we were excited to be part of his music.

I'm confused now.

Maybe we can ask him if he ever personally spoke with Michael on the songs.

 

[kreen]

Korgnex has just shown those who base their entire belief in this conspiracy on "what their ears tell them" that their ears might not be as precise instruments as they think.

In addition to being a MJ fan, I'm also a huge Beach Boys fan. Now that band had 5 singers who would take turn singing on the songs. Well, can you believe that, 40 years after those songs were released, there are still some parts here and there where nobody can be quite sure who sings what? And those 5 guys were not imitating each other or trying to sound the same. It's just that sometimes, different voices can sound the same, and the same person can sound different.

 

[kreen]

Thanks for the link, but I can't open it. Don't know why not..

Did the guys you are referring to work for Majestic Music Factory on the Cascio songs in 2009?

I found this, but maybe it's old news: http://www.majesticmusic.com/news.html

July 2009: We spent 2 weeks recording tracks and doing rough mixes for Michael Jackson. We were working with producers James Porte and Eddie “Angel” Cascio who had been co-writing with Michael for an upcoming album. We were stunned to hear the news of Michael’s death shortly after delivering the tracks that he would sing to. Michael was an incredible talent and we were excited to be part of his music.

I'm confused now.

Maybe we can ask him if he ever personally spoke with Michael on the songs.

Did the tracks those guys worked on have MJ's vocals on them when they worked on it? When they say "the tracks he would sing to", that seems to imply the vocals were not there yet.

 

[SoCav]

The first one in that snippet is from what you guys call "lead" (foreground vox). I only adjusted volume and removed bass.
And what happened? You can now hear it's the same.
You cannot do this yourself though as I used an earlier mix to make this. If you want I can post those few seconds to show you I really took the "lead" (foreground vocals) and the background vocals - which you claimed to be two different persons (You said you would have no problem to acknowledge James Porte's singing it in the background later).

Wait, I am still not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I think we are pointing at different parts of the vocals. In the YouTube video Onir and I posted, you can clearly differentiate between the lead and background vocals in the parts we pointed out (0.51 and 0.56). I just wanted to clarify if you think the voice you hear at 0.56 is James Porte. Imo, what you hear there is only the voice of the lead vocalist. That's the voice that I hear doing the lead vocals throughout the whole song (apart from the copy/pasted MJ ad-libs).

The two parts in the snippet you posted come from a later part in the song (after the second verse, 1.53 and 2.02). I did not pay attention to these parts before and only did so after hearing the snippet you just posted. After listening to your snippet and then the same parts in the YouTube clip, it sounds like the lead singer's voice is also used in the background vocals, blending with another voice.

So, to be totally clear: I think James Porte may well be singing background vocals on the song, as I said from the beginning. I don't think anyone is disputing this. I also think, after paying closer attention, that in at least parts of the song, including the snippet you posted, the lead vocalist (imo Malachi) is also singing background vocals.

I think the confusion is over whether you think the lead vocalist that sings 'too bad' is also Porte. I think we can clear this issue up if you would answer this question: do you think the voice that sings 'too bad' at 0.56 in the YouTube clip is also James Porte?

Korgnex has just shown those who base their entire belief in this conspiracy on "what their ears tell them" that their ears might not be as precise instruments as they think.

You just jump on everything that fits your beliefs without scrutinizing it. I bet you did not even listen to the YouTube clip and the snippets Korgnex posted.

 

[Korgnex]

What I used for my file is from the same section of the song as on that youTube file, not from a later section.
And as you have the leaked mix, you should notice that 0:51 and 0:56 are both Porte. The difference between the album version and the leaked mix is that the doubler effect is missing on the first "2 bad". In all earlier mixes (including the leaked one) both foreground instances of "2 bad" are identical.

 

[OnirMJ]

Again (not for the first time): "background vocals" and "background singer" does NOT mean those vocals are always in the background or the singer is limited to this. Feel free to look up proper definitions for the term.
"Too bad" is mixed 2 times in the foreground, it is exactly the same voice as in the background later. On the earlier mixes this can be recognized easily, on the leaked version and the album version it appears to be boosted and has a doubler effect on it (the 2 instances it's in the foreground).
On the remix you can also hear the Porte vocals more prominently.

Listen to this, first is what you guys call "lead" (because it's in the FOREGROUND) which is James Porte's backing vocals nonetheless, 2nd is James Porte again (in the background).
It's both the same voice and it IS James Porte - as a matter of fact. (I can prove this in court.)
PorteFORG_and_BACKG

Now enough of this pointless discussion. Some people got the proper info and that's all I care about for now.

OK, then James Porte sings half of the song, because you just said that those vocals with shaky goat-like vibrato are his.
You can prove nothing, if you can, you would do it 2 years ago.

 

[SoCav]

What I used for my file is from the same section of the song as on that youTube file, not from a later section.

The second part in your snippet is the part at 1.02 in the YouTube clip (you can hear 'enough too fall' in your snippet).
As for the first part: it sounds like I can still hear the last seconds from the synth that you hear at 1.50 in the YouTube clip at the beginning of your snippet (the haaaa-aaahaa sound).

Unless the early mix you used has a different structure, that's what it sounds like to me.

In any case, it does not really matter as you did not use the key part, which is 0.56 in the YT clip. That is the part where only the lead and not the background vocals or both lead and bg are singing 'too bad'.

Edit: saw you added a part to your post:

And as you have the leaked mix, you should notice that 0:51 and 0:56 are both Porte. The difference between the album version and the leaked mix is that the doubler effect is missing on the first "2 bad". In all earlier mixes (including the leaked one) both foreground instances of "2 bad" are identical.

Ok, so you say the 'too bad' at 0.56 in the YouTube clip is Porte as well?

If so, that really surprises me. As I said, whether you think Malachi is the lead vocalist or not, that voice at 0.56 is to me so obviously the same voice as the one that does all the other lead vocals (including the 'coming at cha rather too fast' parts, etc).

 

[OnirMJ]

Thanks for the link, but I can't open it. Don't know why not..

Did the guys you are referring to work for Majestic Music Factory on the Cascio songs in 2009?

I found this, but maybe it's old news: http://www.majesticmusic.com/news.html

July 2009: We spent 2 weeks recording tracks and doing rough mixes for Michael Jackson. We were working with producers James Porte and Eddie “Angel” Cascio who had been co-writing with Michael for an upcoming album. We were stunned to hear the news of Michael’s death shortly after delivering the tracks that he would sing to. Michael was an incredible talent and we were excited to be part of his music.

I'm confused now.

Maybe we can ask him if he ever personally spoke with Michael on the songs.

Who are these guys? They are saying that: "July 2009: We spent 2 weeks recording tracks and doing rough mixes for Michael Jackson." "We were stunned to hear the news of Michael’s death shortly after delivering the tracks that he would sing to."

Michael died in June of 2009 and they recorded tracks "that he would sing to" in July of 2009?

 

[StellaJackson]

Thanks for the link, but I can't open it. Don't know why not..

Did the guys you are referring to work for Majestic Music Factory on the Cascio songs in 2009?

I found this, but maybe it's old news: http://www.majesticmusic.com/news.html

July 2009: We spent 2 weeks recording tracks and doing rough mixes for Michael Jackson. We were working with producers James Porte and Eddie “Angel” Cascio who had been co-writing with Michael for an upcoming album. We were stunned to hear the news of Michael’s death shortly after delivering the tracks that he would sing to. Michael was an incredible talent and we were excited to be part of his music.

I'm confused now.

Maybe we can ask him if he ever personally spoke with Michael on the songs.

Do you realise the significance of what you have just found? They are saying that Michael did not record the songs. They say there delivered the tracks that he was to sing. This proves what we've said all along.

 

[OnirMJ]

Do you realise the significance of what you have just found? They are saying that Michael did not record the songs. They say there delivered the tracks that he was to sing. This proves what we've said all along.

And they recorded it in July? What's up with that?

And what do you think about latest explanation by Korgnex why vibrato does not sound like MJ's vibrato? He says that's because it is James Porte's vibrato.

 

[SoCav]

Thanks for the link, but I can't open it. Don't know why not..

Did the guys you are referring to work for Majestic Music Factory on the Cascio songs in 2009?

I found this, but maybe it's old news: http://www.majesticmusic.com/news.html

July 2009: We spent 2 weeks recording tracks and doing rough mixes for Michael Jackson. We were working with producers James Porte and Eddie “Angel” Cascio who had been co-writing with Michael for an upcoming album. We were stunned to hear the news of Michael’s death shortly after delivering the tracks that he would sing to. Michael was an incredible talent and we were excited to be part of his music.

I'm confused now.

Maybe we can ask him if he ever personally spoke with Michael on the songs.

This is a very interesting find.

Is this Angelo Montrone guy or his Majestic Music Factory credited anywhere for work on these songs? Can we confirm that he/they indeed worked on the songs?

 

[MJelboo]

Do you realise the significance of what you have just found? They are saying that Michael did not record the songs. They say there delivered the tracks that he was to sing. This proves what we've said all along.

I hope we research this more. That's a VERY ambiguous statement.

 

[ivy]

Who are these guys? They are saying that: "July 2009: We spent 2 weeks recording tracks and doing rough mixes for Michael Jackson." "We were stunned to hear the news of Michael’s death shortly after delivering the tracks that he would sing to."

Michael died in June of 2009 and they recorded tracks "that he would sing to" in July of 2009?

They probably updated their website in July 2009. You can see several entries started with "we finished and delivered" referring to the previous months work.

It seems like they were working on the tracks mid june, delivered them and then heard the news about Michael's death. It could be just music though.

Kinda confirms the story that Michael was gonna work on the songs at London, they might have been getting ready with the mixes and such before going to London. It also shows at least one party that knew of the "songs for Michael" dating back to 2009.

 

[Chamife]

Who are these guys? They are saying that: "July 2009: We spent 2 weeks recording tracks and doing rough mixes for Michael Jackson." "We were stunned to hear the news of Michael’s death shortly after delivering the tracks that he would sing to."

Michael died in June of 2009 and they recorded tracks "that he would sing to" in July of 2009?

They wrote these words in July 2009 and just after they finished the tracks Michael would sing to (meaning Michael still had to lay down vocals...at least that's how I interprete it), Michael passed away.

I wonder how the collaboration went down. Did the recording studio get their orders from Eddie?

Maybe I'm asking silly questions, but I don't always understand everything, because it's in English.

 

[ivy]

This is a very interesting find.

Is this Angelo Montrone guy or his Majestic Music Factory credited anywhere for work on these songs? Can we confirm that he/they indeed worked on the songs?

on the website he credits himself as

-Michael Jackson "Michael" (Sony) engineering

 

[StellaJackson]

And they recorded it in July? What's up with that?

And what do you think about latest explanation by Korgnex why vibrato does not sound like MJ's vibrato? He says that's because it is James Porte's vibrato.

The Porte "too bad" vs lead singer "too bad" is kind of irrelevant. The vibrato is Jason Malachi's. It is on the lead vocal of every track. Fact is, we now have on record, long before any songs were sold to Sony or any of this controversy known about, people stating that Michael was due to record songs that were written for him but had not done. This is exactly what we've said all along. That makes sense with the whole MJ Songbook thing. The MJ Songbook is the Porte demos and written versions because by the time of Michael's death he had not recorded these songs. There is the proof in black and white.

 

[MJelboo]

Remember when those tracks got registered guys... Was it June 27 2009? I still find that an incredible piece of information people overlook too easily.

 

[SoCav]

I Googled Angelo Montrone's name and it seems like he posts over at Gearslutz under the name 'Zep Dude'.

He actually posted the following in a topic about the Michael album:

What would anything MJ related be without a little controversy, lol.

I worked on a number of tracks on the album last year around the time MJ died. The vocals we had were stand in vox that had been done by the producer who actually sings very similar to MJ, which may have been what started the questioning. However, I could tell the difference. Listening to the single, it's definitely more like Michael than any stand in vocal that I heard.

The backgrounds obviously have other voices to fill things out. No surprise there since many of the songs were in various stages of completion when he passed.

(link to full topic: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/548397-fake-michael-jackson-song.html )

 

[StellaJackson]

I Googled Angelo Montrone's name and it seems like he posts over at Gearslutz under the name 'Zep Dude'.

He actually posted the following in a topic about the Michael album:



(link to full topic: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/548397-fake-michael-jackson-song.html )

And there is yet further proof. They had the Porte versions. So the songs these guys were working on at the time of Michael's death had none of the vocals that we hear now. Someone else filled them in.

 

[MJelboo]

This is critical stuff. Every day, slowly, we are stripping these songs down to their very essence: deceitful fabrications.

 

[ivy]

you are forgetting something. He says he was working on the songs shortly before Michael died. It confirms the story that these songs would be worked on at London and it brings the question that the faking wouldn't have started before Michael's death.

and there's nothing surprising that he was given a stand in vocal. To overcome leaks they wouldn't given any MJ vocals at that early in the process.

 

[OnirMJ]

They wrote these words in July 2009 and just after they finished the tracks Michael would sing to (meaning Michael still had to lay down vocals...at least that's how I interprete it), Michael passed away.

I wonder how the collaboration went down. Did the recording studio get their orders from Eddie?

Maybe I'm asking silly questions, but I don't always understand everything, because it's in English.

Are we sure that they wrote that in July 2009? Maybe they created their page afterwards in 2010 and wrote their history from memory. Because I don't think they would write wrong month back then.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I just wonder how many believers thought that it was MJ singing the "too bad" part. Cuz the doubters from the begining said it was not MJ. Now all of sudden some believers act as if they had known all along that the "too bad" part was sung by James Porte.

Also, as Onir says, if that "too bad" part was indeed sung by Jampes Porte, then more than half of the song was sung by him too, if not the whole song.

 

[StellaJackson]

you are forgetting something. He says he was working on the songs shortly before Michael died. It confirms that these songs would be worked on at London and it brings the question that the faking wouldn't have started before Michael's death.

How does it confirm they would be done in London? It reads to me that they were working on the Porte versions that Michael was due to sing. It fits perfectly with Jason laying his vocals down after Michael died - most likely in March 2010, just before the 12 Ason Compilation registrations, which contain the newly recorded versions.

 

[SoCav]

you are forgetting something. He says he was working on the songs shortly before Michael died. It confirms that these songs would be worked on at London and it brings the question that the faking wouldn't have started before Michael's death.

But why would they be working on versions of the songs with the vocals of a stand-in in July 2009, if MJ had recorded his vocals in 2007 already?

 

[StellaJackson]

But why would they be working on versions of the songs with the vocals of a stand-in in July 2009, if MJ had recorded his vocals in 2007 already?

Because Michael hadn't recorded any vocals in 2007. That's just it. In 2009, shortly before Mj's death, they were working on versions of the songs containing Porte's vocals only.

 

[ivy]

Are we sure that they wrote that in July 2009? Maybe they created their page afterwards in 2010 and wrote their history from memory. Because I don't think they would write wrong month back then.

Wayback machine has an 16 October 2009 capture. It was written in 2009. Probably they were updating it month by month - as the October 2009 entry isn't done yet.

http://web.archive.org/web/20091016054838/http://www.majesticmusic.com/clients.html

 

[OnirMJ]

you are forgetting something. He says he was working on the songs shortly before Michael died. It confirms the story that these songs would be worked on at London and it brings the question that the faking wouldn't have started before Michael's death.

and there's nothing surprising that he was given a stand in vocal. To overcome leaks they wouldn't given any MJ vocals at that early in the process.

That doesn't make any sense. If they had MJ's vocals back then (in June 2009) they would work with those vocals (demo vocals by MJ allegedly recorded in 2007) and not with Porte vocals.

Of course faking didn't start before Michael's death because they thought that MJ would really record their songs, but he died and they finished the song afterwards with impersonator.