MJ Estate Sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme Countersues / Tohme's Complaint [Merged]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I don't know how they sleep at night either. I won't say all of them but a lot of people in Michael's family can't put down the promoting and entertaining cap and just be a family first.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Do you have links for this timeline? Would be appreciated. I thought Phllips and Tohme met with Michael in JULY of '08?

I just looked up the trial summaries and the relevant thread in the trial subforum. It was day 17, afternoon, when randy phillips was testifying. The trial summary said august for barrack's meeting but the posts in the thread said june, but randy said that the meeting with thome happened later that same week which was august, so that's why i'm just assuming aug. I didn't find randy particularly accurate with his timings/dates so i wouldn't say it's 100% accurate.

Take your point, ivy about jermaine being the one who was instigating contact with thome and barrack. But even in his book jerm's there talking to tohme about neverland who immediataely mentions barrack (his close pal), who jermaine admits 'is tailor made for this sos'. What are the chances? Just because we know now how estranged mj was from his family after the trial, did anyone else have any idea of this back in 08? Not to be too brutal, but jermaine does fulfil all the criteria of 'useful idiot'.
 
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I'm looking the summary of Randy Phillips Testimony

----------------------

Next time he saw MJ was in 2007. At the time he was CEO of AEG and Peter Lopez, MJ’s attorney, had contacted AEG for a tour. A meeting in Las Vegas had been arranged with MJ, Lopez and MJ’s manager.

AEG was contacted by Peter Lopez about MJ potentially going back on stage in 2007. RP was this would have been monumental achievement for AEG as MJ was the greatest star.

The meeting happened in Las Vegas with Lopez, another lawyer named Cross, Raymone Bain and her assistant. The meeting lasted 90 minutes. At that time MJ wasn’t ready to back to stage so Phillips didn’t pursue it any further.

August 2008 AEG got contacted by Tom Barrack from Colony Capital who bought the note on Neverland. They met and talked about concerts. Phillips met with Tohme same week. Tohme said MJ wanted to restart his career, first do live shows and then put out new music.

Phillips met with MJ at September 2008. The plan was to do a residency show at the O2. Phillips calls only special artists can do that and it’s like “bringing the mountain to Muhammad”. MJ seemed motivated and receptive to the idea. Phillips had other meeting with MJ to talk about creative stuff.

Phillips met with MJ on Halloween (October 31st). MJ mentioned Phillips how he wanted to restart his career and how he was living like a vagabond. The meeting got emotional and both RP and MJ cried.

AEG contract was for 31 shows. MJ came up with that number as he wanted to do 10 more shows then prince. The contract was signed at MJ’s house on January 2009.

--------------------------------

So according to Phillips, Peter Lopez was the one that started any concert talks between Michael and AEG.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

So maybe Jermaine did it to get Michael to do a Jackson Family Reunion Concert. Michael would feel indebted and would do it just because Jermaine "saved" Neverland!!!

Jermaine was involved with Michael and the Prince of Bahrain. So maybe that was the art of persuasion to convince Michael to trust Jermaine. Jermaine was watching Michael's back because when the 2005 Trial ended, Michael went to live in Bahrain or so I'm sure that would have been the language being used between Michael and Jermaine.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Alicat basically whenever Michael has a trial or some issue going on which is caused by people's greed, certain family members rally around him for a price. We saw this during the trial--Randy, and after--Jermaine. It seems to me that since Jermaine is the one who seems to talk about Michael more in the press, acting like his spokesman, people tend to go to him to reach Michael. They assume because he is verbal, he has an in with Michael.

The various information above makes it seem that people recognized that Michael had some very valuable assets, and were looking for a way to relieve him of it. It reminds me of Judas in the Bible looking for an opportunity to betray Jesus. We see Baraack, who lives close by, looking for an opportunity to relieve Michael of his assets.

That statement Thome made in London that Michael now had people around him to advance his career, since when does Michael need people to boost his career? Here is a man who moved from a child to adult star successfully by being innovative, creative, talented and can sell out the O2 in minutes and now he needs Thome to help his career? Please. These people only set up plans for a show, only the brilliant artist, Michael can take credit for his success here.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Then, there is the "Gatlin tape." I know a lot of people didn't believe it, but now the lawsuit from the Estate confirms.

really? there arre people who thinks that tape is fake?
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I'm sure he did. It was obvious that he was hurting Michael, with that iron-grip on his arm, in London. Then, there is the "Gatlin tape." I know a lot of people didn't believe it, but now the lawsuit from the Estate confirms. I'm sure Michael felt threatened, and WAS threatened.
why would she fake those? I know we got to be careful but sometimes I feel fans doubt people with no reason
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

really? there arre people who thinks that tape is fake?

I think that there were some fans who simply didn't want to think that Michael could be in such a vulnerable situation. . . not in control? So yeah, there were some who doubted the tape's authenticity. But now with the Estate's lawsuit, it seems certain that the tape was genuine.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

what is this abou gatlin tape?
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

why would she fake those? I know we got to be careful but sometimes I feel fans doubt people with no reason

The problem with those tapes that you can tell parts of it was edit. There is a very notably break in the recording and we all know that Michael's recordings has been taken out of context before to serve someone's purposes.

Also, if he felt so threaten by Thome, why did he show no hestitation in firing him when he screwed up the auction. If he really feared him, he would have never left Thome go in the first place. He also would had most likely hired a private detective to keep an eye on Thome if he thought even felt he was dangerous to his life and the life of his children. Lets not assume that Michael was a scare little kid here.

From what I have seen and read, Thome is really no different than the other vultures that found their way into Michael's life. They used him and when Michael wised up and get rid of them, they sue, must like Dieter, Scoffer(sp?), or even Raymond.

He is shady for sure, but I need more than some tape from a woman who appeared out of nowhere and not said another word about the subject, to back up the claim that Michael was scared of someone like Thome.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Jerm is all over this mess.. why was Jerm so damn worried about Neverland? Mike wasn't living there anyway

Probably because he knew it still meant something to him, and was wanting to play saviour so Michael would feel indebted, as others have already said. We know most of that family, Jermaine included, can't stand on their own. They have made leeching on Michael and using him as a meal ticket a fine art and science at this point.

But I'm not surprised. People are like that. Nothing is unconditional and everything comes at a price.

With that said, that Tohme Tohme bloke scares me. I usually don't bank much importance on irrational gut feelings, but he really does. And knowing what we know about him, well... shady's just the tip of the iceberg, it seems. This will be interesting.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Had a look at jermaine's twitter timeline to see if he's addressed the thome lawsuit and all he's done is tweeted that all the answers to what people are tweeting him about thome can be found in his book - he never misses a trick to push his product.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Sounds lik uri geller and latoya rolled into one! they never miss a chance to leech off michael
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

which led to another huge lawsuit against mj
Geez, how many cases were caused by the actions from family, and how much they cost to Michael?
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

So it was Thome who was in charge and running Michael's life. Well atleast until Michael fired him LOL. What does this do for all of the people who spent the last 2 1/2 years claiming that AEG was running Michael's life and finances.

Thome also claims that Michael's career and reputation was back in 08' and 09' because of him. What does that say for the rumour/version that Michael became big again after he died?

You see it's always the same. It's always something or somebody else rumourd to be responsible for Michael Jackson's unprecedented success. MJ album sales were big in 08' and increased again in 2009 after the press conference. It was all because the world wanted to see and hear Michael, not anybody else. 50 TII shows sold out quickly because he was the greatest. The King of Pop spent his career breaking records and accomplishing things nobody else will even come close to because that is who HE was.

"Give Michael Jackson Credit For His Estate"
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

So it was Thome who was in charge and running Michael's life. Well atleast until Michael fired him LOL. What does this do for all of the people who spent the last 2 1/2 years claiming that AEG was running Michael's life and finances.

Thome also claims that Michael's career and reputation was back in 08' and 09' because of him. What does that say for the rumour/version that Michael became big again after he died?

You see it's always the same. It's always something or somebody else rumourd to be responsible for Michael Jackson's unprecedented success. MJ album sales were big in 08' and increased again in 2009 after the press conference. It was all because the world wanted to see and hear Michael, not anybody else. 50 TII shows sold out quickly because he was the greatest. The King of Pop spent his career breaking records and accomplishing things nobody else will even come close to because that is who HE was.

"Give Michael Jackson Credit For His Estate"

I totally agree. Thank you.

The number of lawsuits against Michael were ridiculous. For some to be caused by his own family doing things is sad.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Mod Note Thread Cleaned
Ok guys Please be careful not to veer off topic. This thread could go in a 100 different directions
If you want to discuss any other issues or topics you are more than welcome to create another thread
Thanks :)
 
So it was Thome who was in charge and running Michael's life. Well atleast until Michael fired him LOL. What does this do for all of the people who spent the last 2 1/2 years claiming that AEG was running Michael's life and finances.Thome also claims that Michael's career and reputation was back in 08' and 09' because of him. What does that say for the rumour/version that Michael became big again after he died?You see it's always the same. It's always something or somebody else rumourd to be responsible for Michael Jackson's unprecedented success. MJ album sales were big in 08' and increased again in 2009 after the press conference. It was all because the world wanted to see and hear Michael, not anybody else. 50 TII shows sold out quickly because he was the greatest. The King of Pop spent his career breaking records and accomplishing things nobody else will even come close to because that is who HE was."Give Michael Jackson Credit For His Estate"
well said.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I do not have a problem with family helping a brother to find a backer, but how about finding out about the character and business actions of a person before you recommend them to your brother.

The estate seem to have much material to work with: They have Jermaine stating how he found Thome and Thome picking Capital from the magazine. Then they will compare that to Thome's statement about trying to find other financeers. It would be so good to see these conflicting details played out in court to show Thome's lies. This suit will need a lot of concrete documentation and proof for Thome to win some good money.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

Tohme Tohme Lawsuit Against MJ Estate Summary


- Tohme states for the year before Michael's death , he served as Michael's manager, advisor, personal representative and spokesperson.
- Tohme claims he positively brought Michael to the public eye as the King of Pop
- Tohme says he assisted Michael managing his and his children's lives.

- According to Tohme Michael was in financial turmoil due to
--- 2005 trial and not being able to work
--- excessive spending habits
--- financial mismanagement

- Tohme says Michael's hiring and firing managers contributed to a confusion about Michael's business affairs and finances.
- According to Tohme before he was hired
---- There was nobody that's reviewing and authorizing MIJAC licensing agreements that could bring in millions of income.
---- There were multiple lawsuits pending
---- A lawsuit in England restricted Michael to engage in creative endeavors.
---- There was a negative public perception due to molestation claims and settlements.

- Tohme says he became Michael's manager mid 2008.
- Tohme says
--- he reorganized Michael's business affairs
--- handle music licensing issues
--- renegotiate loans and debts
--- resolve legal problems
---prevented Neverland foreclosure
--- Michael's image improved and TII deal came up

- Tohme say that he's promised $2.3 million for Neverland and 15% of gross compensation earned by Michael commencing July 2, 2008 and it includes the time period after June 25, 2009 and monies paid to MJ Estate.

Bahrain visit and the agreement with 2 Seas Record
- According to the lawsuit the agreement said Michael cannot enter into new creative endeavors without the consent of 2 Seas Records.
- This lawsuit was ongoing in 2008.
- Tohme says he traveled to Bahrain and a settlement was reached in November 2008.
- This gave Michael freedom for future plans such as AEG TII deal.

- Tohme says after spending time in Bahrain, France and Ireland Michael returned to Las Vegas and later Tohme convinced him he need to move back to Los Angeles for his career.
- Early Fall 2008 Michael moves from LV to LA.
- Tohme says he arranged all aspect of Michael and his kids stay in Hotel Bel Air.
- Tohme says he arranged the leasing of Carolwood residence starting December 2008.

- Tohme says due to his advice and guidance combined with Michael's talent and faith in himself, Michael's happiness, focus and confidence has increased and he seriously proceeded with plans to return to the public eye.
- Tohme says he arranged Michael's media releases, disputed false and malicious stories and arranged positive stories such as MJ 50th Birthday interview on Good Morning America show.

- Mention of the Neverland deal and Michael's personal property and memorabilia. Tohme says without him all of those would be lost.
- Michael signs with AEG for TII concerts.
- Tohme says he suggested the name This is it! spoken in a high spirited tone.
- Tohme says he was involved in creating the 3 minute TV commercial that announced the O2 shows.
- Tohme says after the TII announcement a MJ Mania was created and sales of MJ related items such as music, merchandising has increased.
- Tohme says he was involved in the name and implementation of Michaeljacksonlive.com . Tohme says after Michael's death that website was used to advertise TII and exhibition at O2.
- Tohme says he arranged positive press releases about Michael.
- Tohme says he arranged travel, hotels, security and was searching for housing for Michael in England.

- Tohme says he called Ortega at Michael's suggestion to offer him the position of director at TII concerts.
- Tohme says he also hired a tour manager, hairdresser, stylist, seamstress, musicians and dancers for TII concerts.

- Tohme says that without him and him arranging the TII deal, MJ Estate couldn't have received the enormous sums from movie, licensing, DVD, album sales, mp3. merchandising and promotion.
- Tohme says his significant contributions is acknowledged by listing him at the credits.

- Tohme says he was not only Michael's manager but he was also a trusted friend and confidant.
- Tohme says Michael have him to POA's which gave Tohme complete power over Michael's financial affairs and authorized Tohme to conduct business in Michael's name.

-According to Tohme, Michael
--- appointed him to the board of directors Sony/ ATV
--- appointed him to be co trustee of MJ Publishing Trust (MIJAC) with Katherine
--- authorized Tohme to review and approve all licensing requests from MIJAC.

- Tohme says he received all the royalty payments from Sony on behalf of Michael
- Tohme says he set aside some of the royalty payments to purchase a house for Michael in Las Vegas and only Michael and Tohme knew about this.
- Tohme says after Michael's death he contacted the Estate and returned them the $5.5 million.

- Tohme mentions he filed a creditor's claim and Estate took no action on it.

- In regard to Neverland, Tohme claims he talked with other lending institutions but it didn't lead anywhere.
- Tohme says he then contacted Colony Capital who agreed to give $23 million.
- Tohme says he deserves $2.3 M due to the finder's agreement as well as 10% from any future sale of Neverland.

- July 2008 Michael and Tohme enter into a services agreement. In which Tohme was to provide several services and receive 15% of Michael's compensation.
- Tohme says he provided valuable services such as settlement with 2 Seas Records, AEG TII deal, Broadway musical of Thriller, animated cartoon series based on Thriller, Thriller Live show, BMI royalty issues, MIJAC licensing, trademark lawsuits, oversaw music recorded by Michael after July 2008, Michaeljacksonlive.com website, Michael Jackson video game, 2008 Halloween release of Thriller 25 at Maddame Tussauds with Sony, auditing and refinancing Sony / ATV, negotiated a contract with Sony about Off the wall, King of Pop Cd's with Sony Legacy, liaison to Sony/ ATV about new acquisitions, communicating with Sony in regards to Michael's business matters, resolution of lawsuits, securing memorabilia and oversaw matters about auctions / exhibitions.
- Tohme says he didn't receive any payment for the 15% he's entitled under Services agreement.

- August 2008, Michael and Tohme enters into an indemnity agreement in which Michael agrees to compensate Tohme for reasonable expenses including personal and legal fees in connection to services Tohme provided to Michael.
- Tohme says in this agreement Michael also agreed to not hold Tohme responsible for any damages, losses, claims, liabilities due to Tohme's services.

Claims
1. Breach of Neverland finder's fee agreement: Estate didn't pay Tohme the $2.3 Million he's entitled according to the Finder's fee agreement.
2. Breach of Services agreement: Tohme says he wasn't paid anything and he wasn't provided any accounting to calculate what he was owed.
Tohme asks for 15% of income from July 2, 2008 to June 25, 2009 and 15% of income after June 25, 2009 for matters on which Tohme provided services listed above.
3. Breach of Indemnity agreement: Estate breached that agreement by not providing professional and legal expenses.
4. Accounting: Tohme doesn't have sufficient information to calculate the amounts owed to him and he asks for accounting including all of the above mentioned items and monies received from them.
5. Declaratory relief: Tohme asks the judge to rule that he's entitled to 10% of Neverland deal and 10% from any future sale.
6. Declaratory relief: Tohme asks the judge to rule that he's entitled to receive accounting and 15% of gross income from the services he has provided.
7. Declaratory relief: Tohme asks the judge for a ruling about the reimbursement of legal and professional expenses.

Tohme is also asking for interest and damages as well as attorney fees.

I think there are so many wrong claims from Tome.

For example this:
- Tohme says he was involved in the name and implementation of Michaeljacksonlive.com . Tohme says after Michael's death that website was used to advertise TII and exhibition at O2..
- Tohme says he also hired a tour manager, hairdresser, stylist, seamstress, musicians and dancers for TII concerts.

Doesn`t MichaelJackon.com exist before Tohme? I think so. And does he hire the stuff for TII? Who is the Tour-Manager? I think Gongaware and he is since years in the team of AEG.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

I think there are so many wrong claims from Tome.

For example this:
- Tohme says he was involved in the name and implementation of Michaeljacksonlive.com . Tohme says after Michael's death that website was used to advertise TII and exhibition at O2..
- Tohme says he also hired a tour manager, hairdresser, stylist, seamstress, musicians and dancers for TII concerts.

Doesn`t MichaelJackon.com exist before Tohme? I think so. And does he hire the stuff for TII? Who is the Tour-Manager? I think Gongaware and he is since years in the team of AEG.

Also, Michael was the one who stated who he wanted, e.g., his hairdresser. We say Michael in the auditions in TII and looking and commenting at the production details, that would suggest that he was an active part in choosing his team. I doubt Thome, who had no experience in the music business, said to Michael I will hire Karen, Ortega, etc. As I said he really needs some good proof here of his work and dealings.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

The link to the contract can be found in the article at this site:

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...d-aeg-contract-stating-he-had-no-known-health

Unfortunately, the contract is now heavily redacted. But, in essence, this contract is EXTREMELY negative toward Michael, and in favor of AEG in terms of revenues. It was not vetted for Michael by an independent attorney. AEG was fronting Michael enormous amounts of money, for house, staff, etc. It also looks like Michael was to pay ALL of the production costs for TII (and we already know the costs went over-budget), rather than it being a shared expense with the concert promoter.

The point here, in terms of the "Tohme thread," is that it would seem to validate the executors' claims, and particularly about Michael not having independent counsel. I don't have time right now to "deconstruct" the contract, but it really was NOT to Michael's advantage. And there Tohme was, pushing it through. I hope that the executors will be "agents of the karmic wheel" rotating and grinding Tohme UNDER.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14


Thanks. Would it be possible to also link directly to the PDF of the contract that Thome negotiated, and Michael signed, for the concerts? There is a link in the article that I posted, but I'm not sure how to link directly to a PDF. (I'm not very computer literate. Sorry!)

I've read that contract before, but it looks now like it's more heavily redacted. Tohme has said it was "vetted by HIS attorney," which correlates with the Estate's claim that there was no independent counsel to Michael to look over contracts and agreements.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Thanks. Would it be possible to also link directly to the PDF of the contract that Thome negotiated, and Michael signed, for the concerts? There is a link in the article that I posted, but I'm not sure how to link directly to a PDF. (I'm not very computer literate. Sorry!)

Here it is , the AEG contract : http://www.radaronline.com/sites/default/files/AEG contract.pdf
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I actually have the full contract - not redacted - filed by Joe in Murray lawsuit.

edit: It's also in Leonard Rowe book.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Raymone Bain filed a lawsiut against Michael Jackson making many of the same claims as Thome. Her lawsuit clearly shows that she wanted to take responsibility for almost all of the same things. It has become a clliche that Jackson is always portrayed as so helpless and broke that everybody who was fired capitalises on this image of him by claiming they are the ones who saved his career, business and finances. Leonard Rowe used the same cliches after he was fired.

We have previously told fans that repeating the words broke, debt or bankrupt have been the biggest way to control MJ's image for mare than 10 years. In this article it's the very first sentence.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/reliable-source/2009/05/rs-jackson7.html

Another article: She (Raymone Bain) said she was responsible for rehabilitating his image and finances including negotiating the release of Thriller 25, refinancing loans to properties, the Beatles catalog and negotiations that led to a sold out concert series in London.
Wjla.com
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Raymone Bain filed a lawsiut against Michael Jackson making many of the same claims as Thome. Her lawsuit clearly shows that she wanted to take responsibility for almost all of the same things. It has become a clliche that Jackson is always portrayed as so helpless and broke that everybody who was fired capitalises on this image of him by claiming they are the ones who saved his career, business and finances. Leonard Rowe used the same cliches after he was fired.

We have previously told fans that repeating the words broke, debt or bankrupt have been the biggest way to control MJ's image for mare than 10 years. In this article it's the very first sentence.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/reliable-source/2009/05/rs-jackson7.html

Another article: She (Raymone Bain) said she was responsible for rehabilitating his image and finances including negotiating the release of Thriller 25, refinancing loans to properties, the Beatles catalog and negotiations that led to a sold out concert series in London.
Wjla.com

Well spotted. That's exactly what I've been saying since day one. Take RB lawsuit and replace her name with Tohme and you pretty much get something similar (90%) to the current Tohme lawsuit except for the dodgy Nevy and indemnity agreements. If RB says all that stuff and what did Tohme do?

Also, when the executors took over, they also claimed the same thing in one of their probate reports i.e they renegotiated debt and loans to more favorable interest rates, They renogatiated the this is it movie and soundtrack with Sony and so on. MJ finances were all over the place and so had to be streamlined, they rehabilitated MJ's image, and so on. Assuming that is true, then what did Tohme do to deserve even a fraction of what he claims?
 
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