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Murray Trial- Day 16 - October 24 - Discussion

elusive moonwalker said:
u cant discount the possibility mj turned on the IV ? correct .same with swallowed? shaffer says when did he swallow? 8am is the limit says shaffer. its hypothetical prior to 8am no mj didnt swallow but u could say he did after that. 9same as shaffer said to the pros.no doubt the defence will change their times again)
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Shafer said 8am was the limit but I thought he meant MJ could not have swallowed after 8am becuz evidence doesn't support that, however, he couldn't say about prior to 8am. I may have misheard, tho...working and listening.

In any case, I was WAITING for this timeline on WHEN MJ may have swallowed these pills be come an issue. Even if Murray's team tries to move their timeline again they are going to have problems. Remember, Murray only admits to leaving the room after giving the 25mg around 10:40 - 10:50 (if that's the timeline they are going back to now). That would be the ONLY opportunity MJ would be out of his sight for this to happen since MJ came home and showered. Chernoff offered something in his opening statement as evidence that caught my ear, HOWEVER, when I listened to Murray's interview (specifically looking for what Chernoff offered) Murray NEVER backed that up. So, they are going to try to sneak something in to say when MJ self administered, BUT Murray's interview and his very own timeline is going to trip them up here becuz he never offers that information. Chernoff thinks he's about to slip one over like they tried to slip new info in via Paul White. If someone else posts the discrepancy, fine...but I'm choosing not to until the defense has rested. Walgren may bring it out later on cross should it become a bigger issue and he catches the discrepancy as well. Seems the defense hasn't really hashed it out IF they are going to try to use the 8am time period to their advantage. They CAN'T...and I'm not going to say why...for now. I wanna see how far they are going to TRY and go with it. Murray really locked them in with that interview.

Justthefacts said:
It can only effect your heart if your heart is already bad. And Michael's heart was solid
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Agree.

bowen9999 said:
So, are they going for 'MJ was an addict but Murray was unaware so it couldn't possibly be his fault he died' theory? I can't see that sticking.
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We already know that will not work since Murray claims he knew nothing about other doctors, yet in in his inteview he clearly did. So, the old...I had no idea there were other ppl in the picture prescribing things (not that this is really an issue when taking the meds and when they were prescribed, etc. into context) will not work for him.

Justthefacts said:
So now rapid detox and propfol caused Michael's heart to give out is that it now?
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Problem for Murray is Michael's records with Klein do not indicate addiction to demerol based on the times he was given those shots. Addicts don't go days in between meds. They tend to need them from moment to moment; as soon as the effect wears off, they crave another dose. Demerol (nor metabolites) did not even show up in his urine when we now know urine can show what someone was taking for at least 72hours+ in the past.

I hope they go for that time change tho. Another theory will hit a brick wall.
 
There was no scenario where Michale could have taken the drugs himself and have that amount of drugs in his blood after death.

SHOOTING THE DEFENCE!!!! :)
 
Walgren is doing great on redirect showing how Shafer did his simulations based on the evidence in the coroner's report and toxicology (as opposed to the defense theories that seem to disregard evidence at all...my note)
 
Yes! Shafer points out that Kleins records of the demerol shots (dates given) were not sufficient enuf to make a determination that MJ was an addict and that the demerol contributed to his death.
 
Shafer reitereates Demerol did NOT cause MJ's death!
 
I don't understand how the defense can blame demerol that killed Michael when there was no demerol found in Michael.
 
marebear said:
I don't understand how the defense can blame demerol that killed Michael when there was no demerol found in Michael.
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Defense doesn't care about the actual evidence in this case. They will throw whatever they can out there to see if it will fly.
 
Do you guys think Shaffer backs down too fast under cross? I say this because during cross he agreed with Chernoff re the "pulled out of thin air" bit and now, under direct, he agreed with Walgren re the stuff being guidelines in California. I'm not sure what's going on here. It's confusing me.
 
wendy2004 said:
Defense doesn't care about the actual evidence in this case. They will throw whatever they can out there to see if it will fly.
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Well I hope the jury will look at the evidence really carefully when they make their decision.
 
great comment on mj pushing the drugs himself lol you have been had murray lol
 
I've just come in so missed the cross by chernoff...will reading up what you guys wrote for that...so thanks for that.

However whats the general opinion was Shafer good under cross or did Chernoff score some points?
 
Walgren asks if Murray knew MJ liked to PUSH the drugs (propofol)...as he stated in his interview and Murray felt MJ was an addict, then it was a forseeable risk for him to leave MJ alone with drugs. Shafer says "yes".

That's what you call getting beat across the head with your own words over and over again. Murray is in a corner no matter how he tries to twist this.
 
"Exclusive tidbit: defense Propofol expert Dr. Paul White is not seen in the courtroom or hallway today."
 
Gotta love Brazil who does this very understated wtf face when Chernoff gets out of control...which he's starting to do again, now. Whenever he gets frustrated he goes off the handle. He's coming apart again and has left "Mr. Nice Chernoff" behind. Here we go!
 
the court is a mess today, wth is chernoff doing????????????
 
I knew it wouldn't be long before Chernoff was back to his usual self!
 
I wish he would stop calling Michael Pastor 'Judge' It seems rude to me not to call him 'Your Honor'
 
Chernoff really is a friggen idiot,,,he is getting on Judges nerves,,,I think that dude is split personality.
 
Paha, Chernoff's now getting a telling off for there being too many pieces of evidence lying around. Definitely back to his normal, irritating self!
 
He's now treating this line of questioning as the opening statement and staring at the jury. Not liking his more aggressive stance.
 
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