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Murray Trial- Day 16 - October 24 - Discussion

so they are bringing up the missing urine hydrol values...
 
maybe Judge Pastor read the riot act to Chernoff during the weekend. You just know it pains him no end to be nice to Shaffer.
 
u cant discount the possibility mj turned on the IV ? correct .same with swallowed? shaffer says when did he swallow? 8am is the limit says shaffer. its hypothetical prior to 8am no mj didnt swallow but u could say he did after that. 9same as shaffer said to the pros.no doubt the defence will change their times again)

urine concentration based on defence testing. . shaffer asked about the loraz stomach testing the two diff parts in the stomach the matabolite and the core drug.did shaffer look at the urine concentration to see if they matched? yes shaffer did. looks at his notes the coroner didnt do the tests so shaffer only has the results from the defence testing. 16mg claim came from the defence that mj took the loraz at 8am and at 10am. where did that info come from asks chernoff? shaffer says it came from you. chernoff goes OH! going through the matabolite and how the drug goes through the system.same as he mentioned with the pros. would the process the liver goes through be affected by the process of having to metabolite more than one drug? no says shaffer.

did u at any point make a determination what u would expect urine concentrations to be after 3 hours? going through hypothesis. of the time the bottle ran out thats the time mj passed. thats a coincedence says chernoff.. no i did that with intent says shaffer. at 9am and 3 hr infusion what would be the urine concentration of dip matabolite.? shaffer didnt do that test. what would u expect it to be? shaffer doesnt know. he would have to do a model.

how much dip would go into the urine.? shaffer says its a difficult question casue alot would go into the bile.i would need to research it..100ml simulation be in consistant to the levels in mj. shaffer doesnt know he would have to do a model. u need data. chernoffs trying to get shaffer to say what he wants. would the amount found in mj be for or against the 100ml theory? shaffer says he doesnt have the info without such a model i cant give an opinion as to whether its for or against. shaffer says there wasnt a gluconaride test for dip in the urine done.

chernoff shows him the A.R two urine samples tested. one in the jug one from the autopsy. could anyone beable to takethe 100ml example and say whether the amount found at autopsy matches? u need the gluconaride amount says shaffer to work that out. a test for gluconaride wasnt done (ithink)

all the senarios are based on respitory arrest not cardic arrest. demoral addiction getting mentioned any expertise on that? no says shaffer. so u ventured an opinon on it in your report? shaffer looks after addicts at work so hes familiar with sign of addiction but im not an addiction expert. shaffer said in his report that mj like demoral? objection getting the report out to find the line where he says it. the records of klien showed mj like demoral. picture froze for me.

symptoms of withdrawl do u know them says chernoff? yes he does. chernoff going on about rapid detox now. for F**** sake. this is ridiculous. the pros need to show mjs medical records. rapid detox and the issue when using diprivan. rapid detox can effect the heart. (so this is the new defence theory)
 
cross is over. redirect and walgren approaches. arghhhhhhhhhhhhh bastards. so we have the new defence theory.

mid morning break
 
We're going to hear a lot of outlandish stuff from the defence during the next couple of weeks, I can feel it.
 
That's cross over. Early mid-morning break now of about 15 mins.
 
Shafer's part of his testimony's concluded. Early monring break.
Defence witnesses start in 15 mins
 
imo..that whole hour was a waste of time.,,,the jury know this case is NOT about demarol..it is about benzos and prop..chernoff is still trying to blame the victim
 
It can only effect your heart if your heart is already bad. And Michael's heart was solid
 
elusive moonwalker said:
symptoms of withdrawl do u know them says chernoff? yes he does. chernoff going on about rapid detox now. for F**** sake. this is ridiculous. the pros need to show mjs medical records. rapid detox and the issue when using diprivan. rapid detox can effect the heart. (so this is the new defence theory)
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So, are they going for 'MJ was an addict but Murray was unaware so it couldn't possibly be his fault he died' theory? I can't see that sticking.
 
guys im having my dinner on my lap for the start of the next session. if others can do the updates for abit thanks
 
So now rapid detox and propfol caused Michael's heart to give out is that it now?
 
basically. so they have so say murray was lieing and there was no pulse.to go down that route
 
ok instead of getting home sooner I was stuck at school . Got home just now, to read they're bringing up demorol and some rapid detox theory? WTH is this about?! What are they trying to spin around?! That Michael died cuz he had withdrawal symptoms? And is it right there won't be any redirect from Walgren?! WTH?!
Gosh today is such a hard day, though I thought I'd be having time to watch the trial, it turns out that I have leave in 90 mins again! *sigh*
Why didn't the prosecution object to this demorol nonsense?! And why don't they want to redirect?!
 
Judge did not mention Walgren to re-direct.
Shafer bade his goodbyes, thank the members and left the stand.

Chernoff's condescending patronising self got the better of him as usual,
asked Shafer if treating addict was his speciality ( implying MJ was a addict arshole!)
but Shafer's with his quick wit said in his professsion of treating patients would present him with opportunities that some patients could have been addicts. He did not say Michael was an addict.
 
This is a weird theory. 1 Murray himself claimed he found MJ with pulse, so obvious MJ died because of not breathing not because his heart stop beating. Are they going to say Murray lied about it? Don't think it will look good. 2 The autopsy report said MJ's heart is strong and solid. So heart damage????? 3 How are they going to prove that MJ was under rapid detox? CM never mentioned MJ was under detox of demerol. I believed he claimed he is trying to win off propofol not demerol right?

How many theory did they already come up with? Drinking Propofol to death. Taking Lorazopin to death. Self injection to death. Now detox????? How can MJ died in so many different way is really beyond me.
 
i didnt hear walgren say there would be no redirect. he asked to approach the bench and that was it after a break was called. unless my feed cut off early. no way there wont be redirect imo.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
i didnt hear walgren say there would be no redirect. he asked to approach the bench and that was it after a break was called. unless my feed cut off early. no way there wont be redirect imo.
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Yeah exactly. He went over to the judge, and then he in turn said they would take the mid-morning break a bit earlier than usual. No mention of there not being a re-direct by Walgren.
 
did the court start late today? i just got home and saw the judge talkin to dr shafer that he is still under oath etc...
 
ok thx, for a second I was getting really angry.
Just saw it started again.
 
Vici said:
did the court start late today? i just got home and saw the judge talkin to dr shafer that he is still under oath etc...
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It started normal time with Chernoff continuing cross examination, and then the mid-morning break was taken a bit early. Just come back and Walgren's doing the re-direct.
 
chernoff just didnt look to comfortable there....Shafer had no Idea that ,was a vented line...he didnt even find out until this morning,
 
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