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Murray Trial Day 22, November 1st

What's happened with Walgren? I'm disappointed!
 
Kingofpop4ever3000 said:
If Michael was dead already by the time 911 was called, then shouldn't the EMTs have been allowed to pronounce his death at the scene? And according to testimony, didn't Murry tell the paramedics that Michael still had a pulse? And didn't he also insist that they take Michael to the hospital? If so, The question still remains, why didn't he want them to follow protocol and pronounce Michael dead at the house even if it meant the police would come over there if Michael was dead and Murray did nothing wrong? Why isn't anything being said about that? This is all just my opinion.
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yes murray said there was a pulse. walgren has pointed it out numerous times in cross
 
OnirMJ said:
What's happened with Walgren? I'm disappointed!
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thats what shaffer is for. hes gonna rebute everything white said so why recross white and allow him the chance to give his opinions again.
 
Mid-morning break now, something needs to be discussed between counsel and the judge.
 
Don't worry about the re-cross guys, Walgren is going to call Dr. Shafer back to the stand. It should be some pretty great testimony. It will all be covered there. The re-direct by Flanagan was just damage control.
 
Talking to White about the models is now useless. Walgren wants to sink his teeth into Gabriella. Let's see who SHE blames for the data in her model. :lol: Round and round we go.
 
mid morning break as they have a few things to discuss
 
I'm not surprised there wasn't a re-cross. I think the prosecution will just ask Schaffer to clarify everything!

Break already?
 
Already with a break? Poor Judge Pastor, can tell he is not happy. So will or won't murray testify?
 
Is. Dr.Shafer coming to the stand today? If not, what's the agenda for the rest of the day?
 
so white is dne, and the pros never asked him things. we thought that walgren would nail him today, gosh we were wrong there.

now break, dont know why?
 
Dr. Gabriella Ornellis should be the next one to testify. She created the models that Dr. White used in his testimony and that the defense have been using.
 
I guess you are right about Walgren and Gabriella Wendy2004, let's wait and see.
 
I think Walgren passed on recrossing White becuz he has issues with some of the data and the models created. White, altho giving his opinion of the info shown in the models continues to play crazy and dumb about where some of the info may have come from and why the models were created a certain way. So questioning him further is a waste of time. If Gabriella is responsible for the models and knows where some of the numbers came from, she will be the one to get that information from.

Again, it will be interesting to hear where she claims some of the numbers Walgren calls into question have come from. Did she really create these models based on what she saw on tv or did someone instruct her to create them a certain way. Remember the charts the defense tried to sneak in with Waldman that did not accurately reflect evidence or information. And Waldman shifted blame to his secretary or assistant. Everyone is playing crazy about WHERE and how they are creating these charts.
 
Dr White

Flanagan

Models : there's a lot of variability in the models. Variability of patients, or parameters (ex halflife of lorazepam can vary from 22mn to 40mn).

80% of stomach content lorazepam was metabolite, 20% free lorazeapm (??? Flanagan language, I'm not sure I got that right)

Showing the lorazepam model that includes 16mg oral consumption (the model is based on 0.0013 mg in the stomach content) If you move the oral intake to 8o'clock , the amount of free lorazepam would be 0.008 mg in the stomach content, and concentration level would be close to concentration found at autopsy . There's anumber of scnarios that would lead to the results found at autopsy. We don't know how many pills he took, at what time.

About the 0.3 free propofol in urine content : showing a model about the 100 ml propofol infusion over 3 hours , with a model of free propofol in the urine . The level of propofol is around 2mg , the range would be from 1mg to 3 mg of free propofol in the urine. 1mg is 10 times the amount found at autopsy.

The burn feeling of propofol is increased by small veins, the concentration of the drug, the speed of the injection. Lidocaine would be given before the infusion, or at the beginning. Given the halflife of lidocaine , with a 3 hours infusion, there shouldn't be lidocaine found at autopsy, and there was 0.84 mg/ml at autopsy.

If there were 2 injections, lidocaine would have been given twice, Dr White would expect the lidocaine to be around the level found at autopsy.

Standard of care vs Standard of practice : standard of care is the ideal we would seek for every patient. It's not always possible. Ex capnography , it's useful , but not precise enough, and in many situations it's not used.

Anxiolisis : reduction or prevention of anxiety. To relieve anxiety you give axiolitics, example : benzodiazepine, propofol, ambien. There's degrees of sedation, depending on the dose, of the patient, if a patient has been exposed to the drugs before.

Minimal sedation: normal response to verbal simulation.Example given by Flanagan : If I took an ambien, would you be able to wake me up by talking to me.

25 mg propofol given over 3 to 5 mn : would produce reduction of anxiety, generally do not produce sleep. It's possible that if the person is very tired, it could produce a «*restful state*». Noise in the room would wake the patient up.

Dr Richelle Cooper said she was not sure that with 25 mg the patient would sleep , do you agree with that ? Yes

Minimal sedation : airway is not affected, breathing is not affected, no effect on cardiovascular function.

Break
 
Murray won't take the stand.


InSession In Session
Breaking news: #ConradMurray WILL NOT testify at his trial.
1 minute ago
 
another issue though that now needs carlifying in the lidocaine found at autopsy. and it shouldnt have been there if only an IV was given. i dont like how all these little things seem to add up in support of the defence theory
 
Again, it will be interesting to hear where she claims some of the numbers Walgren calls into question have come from. Did she really create these models based on what she saw on tv or did someone instruct her to create them a certain way. Remember the charts the defense tried to sneak in with Waldman that did not accurately reflect evidence or information. And Waldman shifted blame to his secretary or assistant. Everyone is playing crazy about WHERE and how they are creating these charts.
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yeah it will. lets hope she wasnt watching yesterday!
 
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