Murray Trial - October 13 - Day 12 - Discussion

LOS ANGELES – Testimony in the manslaughter trial of Michael Jackson's personal doctor could wrap up by Oct. 21, attorneys told the judge Friday.

During a 35-minute hearing before Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor, lawyers for the prosecution and defense said they expected the last witness for either side to finish by the end of next week or no later than Oct. 24. Defendant Conrad Murray and the jury were not in court for the session.

So far with 12 days at trial, 33 witnesses have testified for the prosecution in support of charges that Murray negligently gave Jackson a fatal overdose of the surgical anesthetic propofol as a sleep aid in June 2009. Murray, 58, a cardiologist, has pleaded not guilty.

Steven Shafer, an anesthesiologist and an expert on propofol, was on the witness stand when court adjourned Thursday. Shafer will be the last state witness, prosecutor David Walgren told Pastor.

The defense will call about 15 witnesses, including "police officers, experts and some character witnesses," but could add more, defense lawyers said. There will be at least two defense experts and as many as four, depending on what Shafer says in his remaining testimony, defense lawyer Nareg Gourjian said.

Shafer could complete his testimony Monday or Tuesday, after what defense counsel J. Michael Flanagan estimated would be "a couple hours" of cross-examination. But a member of Shafer's family has died and he might not be able to return Monday, requiring cancellation of the day's proceedings, Pastor said.

Along with Paul White of Dallas, the defense's propofol expert, Shafer had been planning to attend a national conference of anesthesiologists this weekend in Chicago, where he was to receive a lifetime achievement award, Walgren said. Shafer won't go to the conference, the prosecutor said.

"I feel terrible," the judge said. "I'm sure all of us do. Doubly tragic, in the sense he had this personal loss and then not to receive this honor."

In another development, Walgren moved to admit into evidence 211 prosecution exhibits that jurors already have seen. Murray's defense raised objections to only two: a clip of Jackson rehearsing for his planned "This Is It" concert tour and a photo of Jackson's three children.

Pastor ruled for the prosecution and accepted all 211 items. Jurors will have unlimited access to them during deliberations, Pastor said, except for bottles of propofol, drug residues, medical instruments and other potentially dangerous items. Only if jurors ask to see these items will a bailiff bring them in and supervise their review by the jurors, the judge ruled.

Pastor, angered when Walgren and co-prosecutor Deborah Brazil showed up in court six minutes late, fined each $60. He deferred collecting the fines until "a later time" when he'll ask them to explain their tardiness, he said.
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I am pissed off with the defense. Initially I thought it was great they had ditched their 'drinking propofol' theory, but now I'm detecting it might have been a strategy for causing the prosecution to waste their time. I don't have a strategy for coping with a week's worth of defense bullshit, I really hope the prosecution slaughter on cross.
 
I agree. What it was Michael was doing at Klines office has NOTHING to do with Murray's lack of care for his patient on June 25th, Has nothing do with why MJ died. IT is the defense that is trying to paint Michael as an addict, If the judge thought that Michael's visits to kiline was of importance in this case...he would of had HIM there to testify,,,NOT JUST his medical records that HE had on MJ, Also...Kline himself would of been brought up on charges. So why people think that Kline is relevant to this case is beyond me. NONE of it has anything to do with Murray and HIS lack of standard of care that he gave to Michael on June 25th, Klines records will speak for themselves when the jurors see that Michael WAS NOT getting enough demeral from Kline to turn him into an addict, The stuff was used for enhancement procedures only.,

True, and the really crazy part of all of the defenses' innuendo about Klien and drug addiction is that their crazy client was the one seeing MJ six days a week for two months, pumping him with a slew of drugs. If any one was responsible for making him addicted to something, it was Murray. And after two months, he supposedly suddenly gets concerned MJ MIGHT becoming addicted to propofol. Everything he was giving him was addictive. God, I hate he ever crossed MJ's path.
 
He didn´t give him propofol for two months. He´s at the house helping him out with his body, but he didn´t give him propofol for 2 months
 
moodyblue97;3512221 said:
He didn´t give him propofol for two months. He´s at the house helping him out with his body, but he didn´t give him propofol for 2 months

Murray, himself, said he was "giving him propofol for two months." Source of information that he was not, would be appreciated?
 
I wonder which photo of the children will be shown. Since it is being allowed because Muarry mentioned them it would have to be one taken after Michael's death. This makes me despise muarry even more!!!
 
I wonder which photo of the children will be shown. Since it is being allowed because Muarry mentioned them it would have to be one taken after Michael's death. This makes me despise muarry even more!!!

I must have missed this part of Murray's interview. What did he say about this picture?
 
^^I can't find more details on what they said about the picture. All we know is that because Muarry mentioned them, the pros is showing a photo of the children. Muarry did talk about the children coming to the landing and Paris crying about how she would not have a daddy tomorrow--All very sad.
 
Murray, himself, said he was "giving him propofol for two months." Source of information that he was not, would be appreciated?

and he is a freaking liar , so we have every right not to trust his word. The only way to confirm or refute his account was the hair examination which was not mentioned in any motion or even by any party during this trial, probably the DA did not even bother to check the accuracy of his claims . So the only source is the proven LIRA Murray , you want to believe him it's your choice but respect the choice of those who don't !!!
 
^^Personally I think most of what Muarry said to the police was a lie, except the fact that he was in the house, he gave him medications, and called security.

It just hit me that Karen did not give evidence. I wonder if the defense will call her and some family members.
 
^^I can't find more details on what they said about the picture. All we know is that because Muarry mentioned them, the pros is showing a photo of the children. Muarry did talk about the children coming to the landing and Paris crying about how she would not have a daddy tomorrow--All very sad.

I'm hearing that he mentioned the pic in the police interview but I just read the transcript and I saw no mention of a picture. So I'm confused. :scratch: Was this mentioned in a portion of the interview that was not played publicly?
 
I wonder which photo of the children will be shown. Since it is being allowed because Muarry mentioned them it would have to be one taken after Michael's death. This makes me despise muarry even more!!!

I must have missed this part of Murray's interview. What did he say about this picture?

^^I can't find more details on what they said about the picture. All we know is that because Muarry mentioned them, the pros is showing a photo of the children. Muarry did talk about the children coming to the landing and Paris crying about how she would not have a daddy tomorrow--All very sad.

the picture has already been shown. prosecution has asked multiple people to identify the kids. it's the below picture or a close version of it.

2009+prince+michael+paris+blanket+jackson+funeral+memorial.JPG


murray's lawyers asked it to be not accepted into evidence. Evidence means the jurors will have it with them during the deliberations.
 
I dont understand why they have to show pictures of the children
 
Thanks Ivy. This tweet says Murray mentioned the pic in the interview:

ABC7 Murray Trial 14 Oct
Defense also asked to exclude exhibit5 pic of children. Judge: defendant mentioned pic in interview, it isnt inflammatory & will be received.

https://twitter.com/#!/abc7MurrayTrial

Is this incorrect? Because I never read anything about a picture of the children in the police interview. Or are they just showing the picture because Murray mentioned the children (and not a pic of them)?
 
^^Personally I think most of what Muarry said to the police was a lie, except the fact that he was in the house, he gave him medications, and called security.

It just hit me that Karen did not give evidence. I wonder if the defense will call her and some family members.
Karen is not a witness for the prosecution thats why they didnt call her. She is on the defense witness list. They think her
testimony bolsters their case . Prosecution will be able to cross examine her testimony. It will be interesting to say the least
to see if all that she has told the detectives and the fans stands up as truthful when she testifies in court.
 
Thanks Ivy. This tweet says Murray mentioned the pic in the interview:

ABC7 Murray Trial 14 Oct
Defense also asked to exclude exhibit5 pic of children. Judge: defendant mentioned pic in interview, it isnt inflammatory & will be received.

https://twitter.com/#!/abc7MurrayTrial

Is this incorrect? Because I never read anything about a picture of the children in the police interview. Or are they just showing the picture because Murray mentioned the children (and not a pic of them)?

probably they mean that Murray mentioned Prince, Paris and Blanket in the interview and their picture became relevant in order to identify them. Jurors might not know who MJ's kids are. so they are using a picture for them.
 
I agree The pics shown are allowed to identifiy the children that Dr Murray mentions in his interview.
I think the prosecution did well in choosing this particular picture.

2009+prince+michael+paris+blanket+jackson+funeral+memorial.JPG
 
probably they mean that Murray mentioned Prince, Paris and Blanket in the interview and their picture became relevant in order to identify them. Jurors might not know who MJ's kids are. so they are using a picture for them.

Thanks for Clarifying.
 
moodyblue97;3512221 said:
He didn´t give him propofol for two months. He´s at the house helping him out with his body, but he didn´t give him propofol for 2 months

He ordered a tremendous amount of propofol which suggests he was giving it to him frequently, even if he was just stockpiling for the tour. But my point was that the frequency of ANY of the medications Murray was providing could have developed dependency and that as much as his defense tries to make Klein the villian in this department, their client certainly is based what he has admitted to doing.
 
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[h=1]Jackson doctor's defense looms in trial's 4th week[/h]
render.htm

ANTHONY McCARTNEY
Published: Today
render.htm

Dr. Conrad Murray looks behind during his involuntary manslaughter trial, Thursday, Oct. 13, 2011, in downtown Los Angeles. Murray has pleaded not guilty and faces four years in prison and the loss of his medical license if convicted of involuntary manslaughter in Michael Jackson's death. (AP Photo/Robyn Beck, Pool)
LOS ANGELES (AP) - The trial of Michael Jackson's personal physician will enter a new phase this week, with the doctor's attorneys trying to counter three weeks of damaging testimony and attempting to show that the singer somehow caused his own death.
Lawyers for Dr. Conrad Murray have told jurors that the involuntary manslaughter case will hinge on the science of what killed Jackson in June 2009. They will call their own experts to counter prosecution witnesses who have repeatedly told the panel that Murray was reckless and beyond the fringes of medicine when he administered the anesthetic propofol to help Jackson sleep.
The Houston-based cardiologist has pleaded not guilty and his attorneys continue to maintain that Jackson somehow gave himself the fatal dose of medication. They have abandoned the theory that Jackson died after swallowing propofol, but now contend he was killed after taking several pills of the sedative lorazepam and possibly giving himself a shot of propofol after Murray left the singer's bedroom.
Before the defense lays out its case - expected to consist of 15 witnesses and last until the end of the month - it will have to contend with the government's final witness, Dr. Steven Shafer. The Columbia University researcher and professor helped write the warnings and directions included with every vial of propofol - warnings a prosecutor said in opening statements that Murray ignored.
Defense attorney Nareg Gourjian declined to say Friday who Murray's team would call to testify, but told the judge they would include police officers, experts and some character witnesses. He was not asked, nor did he mention, whether Murray would testify in his own defense.
It seems unlikely that Murray will testify. Jurors have already heard his more-than-two-hour interview in which he laid out his version of events before Jackson's death to a detective who acknowledges he wasn't conducting an interrogation.
If Murray takes the stand, he would undoubtedly be asked by prosecutors about several unanswered questions, such as why he never told paramedics or ER doctors about giving Jackson propofol, why he never told police he was on the phone for long stretches of the morning Jackson died, and why he recorded the singer when he was impaired, stumbling his way through his plans for a children's hospital and cementing a legacy larger than those attained by Elvis Presley or The Beatles.
In his opening statement to jurors, lead defense attorney Ed Chernoff said Murray's team would try to answer two fundamental questions:
"First, how did Michael Jackson get to this point, this desperate point," Chernoff said. "And second, what happened when Dr. Murray was out of the room?"
Prosecution witnesses have acknowledged that only Jackson and Murray know what really happened, but two medical experts testified last week that Murray was grossly negligent. Even if Jackson somehow was able to give himself medication after Murray left the room, the doctor should have been closely monitoring the singer and should have never left any medications within arms' reach, the doctors said.
Ellyn Garofalo, who last year won an acquittal for one of Anna Nicole Smith's doctors charged with improperly prescribing pain medications, said Murray's team should focus on their expert testimony and not start calling character witnesses.
"If they start to call character witnesses, they don't have a great deal of faith in their defense," she said.
She said the experts should be able to show that the case isn't as simple as prosecutors have claimed, and that it is filled with "all kinds of shades of gray."
Murray's attorneys should also try to argue that prosecutors should not be second-guessing medical decisions. "Do we really want the DA's office making medical decisions for doctors," she asked.
Murray's case, she noted, differs in one major respect from the case against her client, who was never accused of causing Smith's death.
Garofalo said Murray's case will be harder to win, and prosecutors so far have done a solid job of showing that the doctor shouldn't have been giving Jackson propofol as a sleep aid in the superstar's bedroom.
"It's a strong case because you have somebody dead after somebody did something that is unheard of," Garofalo said.
Murray's defense strategy also appears to involve calling hostile witnesses, including police officers who prosecutors did not call during their case. The defense scored some points early in the trial by getting a coroner's investigator to acknowledge that she moved some evidence around in Jackson's bedroom before photographing it and that she didn't keep all her notes. The officers would likely undergo the similar harsh questioning about their decisions.
They may also call doctors who previously treated Jackson but have never been formally accused of wrongdoing. They are barred from calling one doctor whose name has been repeatedly mentioned during the trial - Jackson's longtime dermatologist Dr. Arnold Klein.
Murray's team may also call Jackson's hairdresser, Karen Faye, who they have said will testify that the singer was distraught at the prospect of performing 50 comeback concerts at London's O2 arena. Such an account would be in contrast with several other witnesses who said Jackson was excited about the concerts and that his three children would see him perform.
The trial, which is entering its fourth week, has moved rapidly, with 33 witnesses so far and both sides presenting more than 250 pieces of evidence. At its current pace, jurors should receive the case next week.
___
Anthony McCartney can be reached at http://twitter.com/mccartneyAP
 
calling hostile witnesses can be a disaster for the defense. Karen Faye is nuts, so if they call her then God Bless them:wacko:
 
calling hostile witnesses can be a disaster for the defense. Karen Faye is nuts, so if they call her then God Bless them:wacko:

I believe they want Karen to testify. Her statements of Michael didn't want to do it but had to do it for physical reasons and that he was forced and treated badly etc - give support to their theory of Michael being "desperate" so that he could have self medicated.

Also her sickly portrayal of Michael helps the defense that not what Murray did on June 24th night but Michael's health condition and other doctors might have contributed to his death.
 
Karen also told people that weighed 108 pounds and before June 25 that Michael was fine. And she has made a lot of money saying Michael was sick
 
Karen also told people that weighed 108 pounds and before June 25 that Michael was fine. And she has made a lot of money saying Michael was sick

I agree. I personally think that her story changed from time to time also. I hope that if she's called, that is brought up under cross examination. This is all just my opinion.
 
abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
We'll bring you up-to-date information as we get it. So, as of now, no trial tomorrow. Testimony should resume on Tuesday at 8:45 am.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Dr. Steven Shafer's father died last week and he'll be dealing with his funeral. It's unclear yet if attys and Dr Murray will have to appear
3 minutes ago

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
BREAKING NEWS: ABC7 just learned there will be no session tomorrow in the #conradmurraytrial. Last prosecution witness has family emergency.
5 minutes ago
 
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