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Ne-Yo & MJ worked on 6 songs - never recorded

kai said:
Off The Wall - most groovy album
Thriller - most successful album
Bad - best album
Dangerous - most iconic album
History - most important album
Invincible - most interesting album

ok?
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Thriller - most successful, groovy, best, iconic, important, interesting album sounds about right.
 
Thriller has to be considered his most important album , it catapulted MJ from being a big star to a legendary star by aged 25 in one sweep.
 
Agonum said:
Off the Wall is definitely groovier than Thriller in my book.

HIStory is the best.
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As far as I remember, groovy is musical sounding from streets, that can be heard in most song of dangerous and Invincible. Correct me, if I have false definition of this word
 
Agonum said:
Rhythms urging you to move. It’s quite subjective and hardly measurable.
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oh. thank you! then it's definately Heartbreaker and I Can't Let Her Get Away! I love listening to these songs in my apartment at high volume and dancing 😄
 
Smooth72 said:
QJ is a legend know comparison. TR was more like a puppet to MJ did exactly what MJ wanted. QJ having different opinions and not agreeing with MJ all the time made them the best duo ever. QJ is a grumpy old man but he is miles ahead of anyone that MJ work with.
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Agree 100%. Even though the MJ community seems to dislike him, Quincy is probably the best producer to have ever lived- critics often debate whether it’s him or George Martin. MJ and Quincy worked perfectly for OTW and Thriller. And it’s not just his work with MJ- Quincy has produced some of the most influential jazz records of the 60s and 70s, and also composed some of the best film scores of all time.
 
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Hollywood_Tonight said:
Agree 100%. Even though the MJ community seems to dislike him, Quincy is probably the best producer to have ever lived- critics often debate whether it’s him or George Martin. MJ and Quincy worked perfectly for OTW and Thriller. And it’s not just his work with MJ- Quincy has produced some of the most influential jazz records of the 60s and 70s, and also composed some of the best film scores of all time.
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Yeah, Quincys work pre MJ is continually fantastic. And he worked with Frank Sinatra for crying out loud. He's worked with literally all the iconic great names.
 
By the time Quincy Jones was 15 he was in the backing band that worked with Billie Holliday. He worked with Frank Sinatra, Peggy Lee, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughn, Count Basie. He did all of Leslie Gore's big pop hits in the 1960's. He persuaded Miles Davis to come out of retirement. The live album they worked on was the last one before Miles Davis died. He composed loads of film scores. Here's just a few:

In the Heat of the Night - Sidney Poitier, Rod Steiger
The Italian Job - Michael Caine
Cactus Flower - Ingrid Bergman, Goldie Hawn
The Hot Rock - Robert Redford
The Color Purple - Whoopi Goldberg
 
zinniabooklover said:
By the time Quincy Jones was 15 he was in the backing band that worked with Billie Holliday. He worked with Frank Sinatra, Peggy Lee, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughn, Count Basie. He did all of Leslie Gore's big pop hits in the 1960's. He persuaded Miles Davis to come out of retirement. The live album they worked on was the last one before Miles Davis died. He composed loads of film scores. Here's just a few:

In the Heat of the Night - Sidney Poitier, Rod Steiger
The Italian Job - Michael Caine
Cactus Flower - Ingrid Bergman, Goldie Hawn
The Hot Rock - Robert Redford
The Color Purple - Whoopi Goldberg
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Didn't he have a stint with Ray Charles too?
 
Victorious said:
Yes MJ recorded nice demo's, BUT the way some fans dismiss Quincy Jones is absolutely crazy. Comparing Off The Wall and Thrilller with Triumph and Victory will tell you enough; the guy is a legend
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It's actually sickening but not a surprise having seen some of the stuff that gets posted here.

The dismissal of Q, who was the mastermind producer behind MJ's biggest and most successful albums has to be a joke..

There would be no Rod Temperton tracks or Man in the mirror (Siedah) plus bringing on board all the toto guys if not for Jones.

He played a major part in MJ's life. To belittle him and rank him below the likes of Jerkins is quite frankly taking the piss
 
AlwaysThere said:
Quincy gets more credit than he rightfully deserves. Of course he contributed extensively to the first two albums (I won’t give him credit for Bad), but you can’t help but wonder whether that was because of him, or because he was given good material and just polished it up.

I’d take MJ over Quincy any day of the week. His material was more adventurous and intriguing than anything Quincy brought to the table.
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Quincy still should be credited as a co-producer on Bad- “Bad”, “Man In the Mirror”, and “Just Good Friends” essentially were conceived and produced under his direction, Bad certainly would not have been as good if these songs were not included. I think many fans jumped to the conclusion that Quincy didn’t contribute much because of what happened with John Barnes. John Barnes certainly deserves credit as a co-producer as well, but that shouldn’t be a reason to diminish Quincy’s contributions. Also, Quincy is responsible for finding Rod Temperton, Steve Porcaro, and Siedah Garrett- easily the best songwriters MJ ever worked with, and I’d argue that Rod Temperton’s contributions are just as adventurous and intriguing as Michael’s. Without Quincy MJ would not have been as big as he was, I have no doubt about it.

If anything, taking too much production and songwriting credit also applies to Michael Jackson. Greg Phillinganes wrote the bridge for DSTYGE and was not credited. The Cleveland Orchestra was not credited for the Ninth Symphony intro on “Will You Be There”, which resulted in multiple lawsuits. Michael took a third of the songwriting credit for “You Are My Life” despite changing a single word in the lyrics.
 
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Victorious said:
Yes MJ recorded nice demo's, BUT the way some fans dismiss Quincy Jones is absolutely crazy. Comparing Off The Wall and Thrilller with Triumph and Victory will tell you enough; the guy is a legend
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Michael clearly left some of his best tracks out of the Jacksons records and naturally thriller and off the wall are slightly better as they have contributions by highly rated song writers like Stevie Wonder, McCartney, Porcaro and Temperton. The Jacksons‘ records don‘t have those. What extra would Q have brought to Triumph? I don’t know the answer to that, maybe the album would sound totally different but I doubt it. I don’t think a Quincy produced Triumph would have madd that album legendary like the solo albums. I think the main difference is that MJ’s solo albums just got the best songs.

That said Triumph is still a very well crafted pop album in its own way, the songs are just a tad weaker than those on off the wall and thriller imo.
 
filmandmusic said:
Michael clearly left some of his best tracks out of the Jacksons records and naturally thriller and off the wall are slightly better as they have contributions by highly rated song writers like Stevie Wonder, McCartney, Porcaro and Temperton. The Jacksons‘ records don‘t have those. What extra would Q have brought to Triumph? I don’t know the answer to that, maybe the album would sound totally different but I doubt it. I don’t think a Quincy produced Triumph would have madd that album legendary like the solo albums. I think the main difference is that MJ’s solo albums just got the best songs.

That said Triumph is still a very well crafted pop album in its own way, the songs are just a tad weaker than those on off the wall and thriller imo.
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I feel like there’s some misconception within the fan community on what a producer actually does. The producer is the mastermind- conceives the song, hires the songwriters, oversees the mixing and recording process, gives the final approval on everything. Basically, the reason why OTW and Thriller have better songs (and sound better) than Triumph and Victory is because of the producer, so if anything, this is more evident of how good Quincy was.
 
It's depressing that most of the discussion on this forum at this point is just us responding to people who are clearly just saying things to be annoying and start unserious debates for their own amusement.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
It's depressing that most of the discussion on this forum at this point is just us responding to people who are clearly just saying things to be annoying and start unserious debates for their own amusement.
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It’s frustrating when fans say that Quincy did not contribute much- even going as far to say he should not be credited on Bad, when that is simply not the truth. That’s why I think there’s either a misunderstanding within the community on what a producer actually does, or people just don’t realize how much Quincy actually did.
 
filmandmusic said:
Michael clearly left some of his best tracks out of the Jacksons records and naturally thriller and off the wall are slightly better as they have contributions by highly rated song writers like Stevie Wonder, McCartney, Porcaro and Temperton. The Jacksons‘ records don‘t have those. What extra would Q have brought to Triumph? I don’t know the answer to that, maybe the album would sound totally different but I doubt it. I don’t think a Quincy produced Triumph would have madd that album legendary like the solo albums. I think the main difference is that MJ’s solo albums just got the best songs.

That said Triumph is still a very well crafted pop album in its own way, the songs are just a tad weaker than those on off the wall and thriller imo.
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Well Quincy might have searched/pushed for better songs, better collaborations, better writers, better musicians etc. But most of all he had a great musical talent and knowledge; he could lift tracks with his arrangements, melodies, subtle sounds, subtle dissonance,create a consistincy beteween tracks etc. And he was also a perfectonist; he could make MJ sing verses over and over, record mixes over and over
 
Hollywood_Tonight said:
I feel like there’s some misconception within the fan community on what a producer actually does.
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Agreed.

Q was the best possible producer for Michael at that point in his career, imo. Quincy had worked with great artists, he had loads of arranging experience, he was a successful musician, he composed film scores, he worked with jazz artists as well as pop and 'easy listening' artists, he already had access to the best people in the industry, Bruce Swedien being one of them. He had Paulinho da Costa working on The Wiz which is probably why Paulinho ended up doing so much work on Michael's albums.

Hollywood_Tonight said:
The producer is the mastermind- conceives the song, hires the songwriters, oversees the mixing and recording process, gives the final approval on everything. Basically, the reason why OTW and Thriller have better songs (and sound better) than Triumph and Victory is because of the producer, so if anything, this is more evident of how good Quincy was.
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All of this. Artists and bands don't sign contracts with producers and give up yet more of their royalties if producers weren't doing a necessary job. Yes, some producers aren't great and even the best can make occasional misjudgements. That doesn't mean they are not needed.

Quincy has been nominated about 80 times for a Grammy and has won 28, I believe. The man had a lot to bring to the table and he would have been a great person for Michael to be learning from at that point in his career. Some of his ramblings in recent years have been weird and unpleasant but that has nothing to do with his worth, as a producer, to Michael. He did a great job. It's annoying when people think that Michael's success is solely down to Quincy and Michael was just the hired singer for the day. But it's just as bad the other way around, imo. As brilliant and as much of a genius as Michael was, he achieved that level of success with the help of Quincy.
 
Hollywood_Tonight said:
I feel like there’s some misconception within the fan community on what a producer actually does. The producer is the mastermind- conceives the song, hires the songwriters, oversees the mixing and recording process, gives the final approval on everything. Basically, the reason why OTW and Thriller have better songs (and sound better) than Triumph and Victory is because of the producer, so if anything, this is more evident of how good Quincy was.
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I can't agree, time and time again it is noted that MJ is very much part of the songs he records, he is not just singing them, he is actively taking part in creating them. He has high standards and pushes for the best possible results, the way you state it it becomes a 90% Quincy Jones album, the same Quincy who wasn't enthusiastic about Billie Jean. The only song Quincy conceived was PYT. The only one I can imagine giving final approval is Michael Jackson with Quincy as a reliable partner.

If Quincy has that touch of gold then why didn't the other pop albums he produced between 1976 and 1985 become standards of the genre? I'm not saying they are bad albums, I listened to all of them but they're not Thriller nor Off the Wall. I think even on an MJ forum Michael's creativity isn't always being taken seriously.

For me the artist always comes first, he must always take the biggest credit. The producer is the glue. He is nothing without a world class voice and performer.
 
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