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October 17 & 18 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

The pros didnt get the test for the defence. they did it themselves
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

elusive moonwalker said:
i thought the 1/40 was the amount in the stomach it wasnt the residue of a tablet. just the amount equvilant.i thought its never been shown there was pills in mj. rogers said that
Click to expand...
yes you're right. The defense went a little further saying that the lorazepam concentration was 4 times higher in the stomach content than in the blood. The amount in itself didn't really matter, it's the concentration that mattered.
Defense said that if it was higher in the stomach content than the blood, it meant oral consumption. Anderson wouldn't agree to that, he said oral consumption was ONE of the reasons that could explain that, but not the only one. That's when ion trapping was mentionned, but Anderson didn't want to elaborate further, because he's not a pharmacologist.
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

elusive moonwalker said:
The pros didnt get the test for the defence. they did it themselves
Click to expand...
Sorry, it wasn't what I meant (English is not my first language, sometimes it's grrrrrrr:no:), what i meant was didn't the prosecution receive a copy of the defense test results before the trial ?
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

i thought the 1/40 was the amount in the stomach it wasnt the residue of a tablet. just the amount equvilant.i thought its never been shown there was pills in mj. rogers said that
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very true . As for Roger he said he did not SEE tablets , thus Flanagan got him to say they could have been dissolved if they were given earlier, that's why he did not SEE them . My understanding that the lorazepam found in MJ's body is not as high as the defense claimed plus they might have tested for ingredients of a lorazepam tablets and found nothing. That's why the defense is worried. It seems the prosecution ruled out the possibility lorazepam was orally taken and that can only be done if the ingredients of tablets were not really found ( that's at least how I understand it)
 
Michael Jackson doctor's trial to resume Wednesday
By ANTHONY McCARTNEY, AP Entertainment Writer&#8211;21 minutes ago <script type="text/javascript"> if (gbar.lPWF) { gbar.lPWF(function() { gapi.plusone.render('plusone-div', { "size" : "small", "count" : "true", "href" : "http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iEsQGxK63J2dHpHeGthOwM_Xep3w?docId\x3d49a37886dd034a75925f3591ae5674be" }); }); } sandbarSharebox.registerMicrodataParser( window.top, document.getElementById('hostednews-article')); </script>

LOS ANGLES (AP) &#8212; The judge overseeing the trial of Michael Jackson's doctor says testimony in the case will resume Wednesday.
Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor ordered the delay so that defense attorneys can get more details on test results that the coroner's office recently conducted. The tests dealt with the levels of the sedative lorazepam that were found in Jackson's body.
Attorneys for Dr. Conrad Murray have raised the issue of lorazepam levels and told jurors that the amounts were so high they could have put several people to sleep.
Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told Pastor that he asked for the coroner's office to re-test for lorazepam levels and found that they were lower than the defense analysis suggested.
Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter.
<!-- google_ad_section_end(name=article) -->Copyright © 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap..._Xep3w?docId=49a37886dd034a75925f3591ae5674be

Gt this from Justice4MJ FB Group Page: Breaking News: According to new toxicology reports on Michael's gastric count, there is not enough Lorazepam in Michael's stomach content to account for 8 Lorazepam tablets to have been swallowed! Huge blow to the defense! Part of the reason court will not resume until Wednesday! The defense has to come up with a new strategy!

^ Their saying HLN said this!



<script type="text/javascript"></script>
 
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Michael Jackson Doctor's Trial to Resume Wednesday (10/17/2011)
By ANTHONY McCARTNEY, AP Entertainment Writer
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap..._Xep3w?docId=49a37886dd034a75925f3591ae5674be

<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> if (gbar.lPWF) { gbar.lPWF(function() { gapi.plusone.render('plusone-div', { "size" : "small", "count" : "true", "href" : "http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iEsQGxK63J2dHpHeGthOwM_Xep3w?docId\x3d49a37886dd034a75925f3591ae5674be" }); }); } sandbarSharebox.registerMicrodataParser( window.top, document.getElementById('hostednews-article')); </SCRIPT>LOS ANGLES (AP) &#8212; The judge overseeing the trial of Michael Jackson's doctor says testimony in the case
will resume Wednesday.

Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor ordered the delay so that defense attorneys can get more details on test results that the coroner's office recently conducted. The tests dealt with the levels of the sedative lorazepam that were found in Jackson's body.

Attorneys for Murray have raised the issue of lorazepam levels and told jurors that the amounts were so high they could have put several people to sleep.

Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told Pastor that he asked for the coroner's office to re-test for lorazepam levels and found that they were lower than the defense analysis suggested.

Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter.


<!-- google_ad_section_end(name=article) -->
 
Michael Jackson doctor's trial to resume Wednesday
By ANTHONY McCARTNEY - AP Entertainment Writer | AP &#8211; 13 mins ago

LOS ANGLES (AP) &#8212; A judge delayed resumption of the trial of the doctor charged in Michael Jackson's death until Wednesday to give defense attorneys time to analyze new testing that coroner's officials recently conducted.

Testimony had been canceled on Monday so that the prosecution's final witness, Dr. Steven Shafer, could deal with family affairs after his father died last week.

Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor agreed to delay the case against Dr. Conrad Murray for another day after defense attorneys said they needed time to prepare for how to deal with testing the coroner's office conducted last week on the level of the sedative lorazepam in Jackson's system.

Murray's attorneys have suggested that authorities ignored the effects lorazapam may have had on the pop superstar and said their own testing suggested Jackson had taken eight pills before his death.

Coroner's officials determined Jackson died from a lethal dose of the anesthetic propofol. Authorities contend Murray gave Jackson the fatal dose and other sedatives in the singer's bedroom to try to help him sleep. Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter.

Deputy District Attorney David Walgren said the defense lab's results combine two numbers to make it seem like there was more lorazepam in Jackson's system than may have been present. He said the coroner's tests show a much smaller amount was actually in Jackson's system and are inconsistent with the theory that he swallowed several pills.

Lead defense attorney Ed Chernoff said he had numerous questions about the coroner's testing and had asked the agency to conduct the same test before the trial began but was told it couldn't be done. He said he didn't yet know what impact it will have on how Murray's defense case is presented.

Defense attorneys are expected to begin calling their own witnesses, including experts, later this week.
Pastor agreed it was an issue that defense attorneys needed time to address. He ordered attorneys to give him an update at a hearing Tuesday afternoon.

http://news.yahoo.com/michael-jackson-doctors-trial-resume-wednesday-163335834.html
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

ivy I got this from your summaries :

Fleak states that the light blue baby essentials bag contained 2 100 ml propofol bottles which were full, 7 20 ml propofol bottles, 3 were opened with various levels of liquid in them, 3 lidocaine bottle unopened, 2 unopened, 3 10 ml vials Midazolam, 2 unopened, 4 bottles of Flumanezil 5 ml in size, 2 bottles of Lorazepam, 1 unopened, 1 half full, 1 bottle from Applied Pharmacy combination of ephedrine, aspirin and caffeine, Bausch and Lomb eye drops, Medex bag containing IV tubing and syringes, a blue tourniquet, Murray's business cards were all found inside the Costco bag.
Click to expand...
do u know what size were those vials?
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

'In Session' Report:

New testing done on MJ's stomach contents after Walgren heard that defense was dropping oral ingestion theory and putting all their stock in the theory that MJ swallowed these lorazopam pills.

Walgren got results Friday. Testing done at outside, independent lab.

Tests: Shows MJ did NOT swallow 8 Lorazopam pills.

Walgren says it's a deceiving # that Flannigan used to cross examine witnesses about the levels of lorazopam in MJ's stomach.

Tests show lorazopam amount much less than what defense says.

Delay not only because of death in witness family but because the defense needs time to go over these new test results. Defense did not fight to keep this out....agreed that it is important to the case.

JUDGE HAS ALLOWED THIS NEW TESTING TO COME INTO EVIDENCE IN THEIR CASE IN CHIEF W/ DR. SHAFER, NOT JUST IN THEIR REBUTTAL.


(thanx to chauny)
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

Soundmind said:
do u know what size were those vials?
Click to expand...

As far as I know they were 30 each? And in one were 9 1/2 pills left. Wish I would remember the witness who was shown these 2 bottles to check on youtube.

P.S. I just saw "one unopened" - I think that one was actually empty with the cap missing.
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

Soundmind said:
ivy I got this from your summaries :


do u know what size were those vials?
Click to expand...

10 ml if I'm not mistaken
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

ivy said:
10 ml
Click to expand...

Vials? I thought this was about the pill bottles?

P.S. Oh, ok, this is about the bags. I'm getting confused with all the things they found.
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

The loraz pills. do we know if they were plastic coated ie had a shell around it
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

One thing I'm still a bit confused about was whether the defence had done their own test or were they interpreting the coroners test?
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

LastTear said:
One thing I'm still a bit confused about was whether the defence had done their own test or were they interpreting the coroners test?
Click to expand...
the defense had their own test done
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

Soundmind said:
ivy I got this from your summaries :


do u know what size were those vials?
Click to expand...

Soundmind said:
http://ww2.lasuperiorcourt.org/hp/cxc1vizsbc5esnunb11ud3au/1440710754.pdf

Page 58, 59 .

Page 58 , 1 empty lorazepam vial 4 mg

Page 59, 1 unopened 4 mg vial and one half empty lorazepam vial ( no quantity given)

Ok, let's wait for Schafer these r(if half empty is 4 mg) 6 mg of lorazepam .
Click to expand...

I listened to the audio both are 10 ml vials with 4 mg per ml concentration
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

already posted
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

Milka said:
As far as I know they were 30 each? And in one were 9 1/2 pills left. Wish I would remember the witness who was shown these 2 bottles to check on youtube.

P.S. I just saw "one unopened" - I think that one was actually empty with the cap missing.
Click to expand...

I remember the same. I think Dr. Rogers was made to count the pills left (9 1/2).
Detective Smith said where each of the two bottles were collected from: one was in the bathroom, the other in the closet. (I think the one in the bathroom was collected on 26th, and the other on 29th).
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

It's confusing. there were pills and then there were also vials of it. '

btw - why are interested in the vials now?
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

elusive moonwalker said:
The loraz pills. do we know if they were plastic coated ie had a shell around it
Click to expand...

i think they come as compressed tablets. such tablets should usually disintegrate within 30-45min or sooner according to what i read. but disintegrate is not the same thing as dissolve.
if they analyse contents they can probably still tell if someone consumed tablets even if tablets cannot be seen anymore.
dissolve times would depend on the substances in the tablets.
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

ivy said:
It's confusing. there were pills and then there were also vials of it. '

btw - why are interested in the vials now?
Click to expand...

Yeah, in this thread people talked about the pills (stomach content), so I thought Soundmind meant the pills too, didn't read her whole quote at first.

As for the vials ... the blood level to me means that Murray might have given him more than those 4mg?
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

Milka said:
Yeah, in this thread people talked about the pills (stomach content), so I thought Soundmind meant the pills too, didn't read her whole quote at first.

As for the vials ... the blood level to me means that Murray might have given him more than those 4mg?
Click to expand...

I think so . someone messaged me on twitter and said Michael's blood levels for Lorazepam is higher than a 4mg dose murray claimed to give. So if Michael didn't take pills orally, I'm wondering if now the theory becomes Murray gave Michael more Lorazepam (more that 4 mg) via IV.
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

I'm sure Murray gave him more than 4 mg
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

At the preliminary hearing, the anesthesiologist suggested the level could have been accumulated from previous days. Walgren first had asked him if the concentration level detected was consistent with 7 to 12 mg of lorazepam.
http://teammichaeljackson.com/dr-richard-ruffalo
Anderson now when asked by defense said 11mg.

PS: I corrected figures, thanks Sophie. I made a typo and wrote 9 instead of 7, thanks.
 
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Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

Hoping I am reading this right in thinking the defense now has more problems?? Hope so.
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

smoothlugar said:
At the preliminary hearing, the anesthesiologist suggested the level could have been accumulated from previous days. Walgren first had asked him if the concentration level detected was consistent with 9 to 12 mg of lorazepam.
http://teammichaeljackson.com/dr-richard-ruffalo

Anderson now when asked by defense said 11mg.
Click to expand...

This is a quote from ruffalo's testimony at prelim during direct by walgren:


[...]
A well, the most important one is lorazepam, also known as Ativan is its major trade name.
Unfortunately, we don't have a hospital value that would have been more helpful, but we do have the heart and femoral levels. And clearly, those levels are subject to a very small degree of redistribution because it is a more water-lugging drug. It doesn't have as much redistribution phenomena as something like propofol or even its first cousin, which is diazepam or Valium. So it is a little less susceptible to that.
If you were to compare antemortem blood levels and assume they are equivalent, for example, those would be exceedingly high blood levels, the equivalent of taking anywhere from 7 - 12 mg of lorazepam either orally or I.V. or I.M.
So it tells us that there is a significant amount of lorazepam in the blood. It is what we call a very, very high level. Not lethal, but very, very high. But would induce, depending upon the patient's tolerance to the drug, you know, significant degree of sedation.​
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

Yes is this a problem for the defense now?
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

smoothlugar said:
At the preliminary hearing, the anesthesiologist suggested the level could have been accumulated from previous days. Walgren first had asked him if the concentration level detected was consistent with 9 to 12 mg of lorazepam.
http://teammichaeljackson.com/dr-richard-ruffalo

Anderson now when asked by defense said 11mg.
Click to expand...

Yep, I remember something about the amount of 5 - 6 pills. I think they also said (don't remember which expert, maybe more than one) that if the same amount of Lorazepam is injected or infused, the blood level is higher than from pills, because pills are not 100 % absorbed (or whatever the technical term for that is). Might be wrong though, this stuff is confusing. Maybe he gave him 4 mg twice?
 
Re: October 17 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

Murray trial to resume Wednesday after defense reviews lab tests
October 17, 2011 | 10:30 am

13
0

Testimony in the trial of Michael Jackson's personal physician was postponed until Wednesday morning after attorneys for Dr. Conrad Murray said they needed time to review a new lab analysis turned over by prosecutors challenging a key defense theory.

Murray's attorneys have told jurors that the pop star swallowed eight tablets of the sedative lorazepam, then injected himself with the anesthetic propofol, causing a "perfect storm" that instantly killed him. Defense attorneys said a test they ordered showed high levels of lorazepam in Jackson's stomach contents supporting that scenario.

A prosecutor said on Monday that those numbers were "artificially inflated" and that the actual level of the drug in the singer's stomach was much lower. Results of a new analysis by the coroner's office was "totally inconsistent" with the defense's contention that Jackson took lorazepam pills, Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren said.

Full coverage: Trial of Michael Jackson's doctor

Murray told detectives in an interview that he gave Jackson lorazepam intravenously before injecting him with propofol the morning of his death. The coroner ruled that Jackson died from the sedative propofol, combined with the effect of lorazepam.

Attorneys for Murray protested they would not have time to address the eleventh-hour analysis. They also accused prosecutors of conducting tests in violation of a court order, but later apologized saying that allegation was incorrect.

Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor delayed proceedings until Wednesday. Testimony already had been canceled Monday because of the death of the father of the prosecution's final witness, Dr. Steven Shafer.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/conrad-murray-trial-delay-lab.html

Another trial delay, testimony will resume Wednesday
Posted: 01:21 PM ET


Judge Michael Pastor granted another delay of the trial for two reasons: The defense has requested a day to review new toxicology evidence of Jackson's stomach contents recently handed over by the prosecution. The judge also wants to give the state's final witness, Dr. Steven Shafer, more time to deal with the death of his father. Testimony will now resume Wednesday morning.

There was a hearing held this morning to discuss a schedule update and other issues. After being fined $60 by the judge for being late Friday, prosecutors arrived ahead of schedule by about seven minutes, prompting Defense Attorney Flanagan to exclaim, "You're early!"

Prosecutor Deborah Brazil pointed to the clock and said, "Maybe we'll get a credit."


Dr. Conrad Murray was not present in the courtroom, but he was represented by his full team of defense attorneys.

Judge Pastor asked for an update after receiving word from prosecutors that Dr. Shafer, the State's, anesthesiologist/pharmacologist, was not available today because his father passed away. Deputy District Attorney David Walgren said Shafer will be ready to testify tomorrow morning.

The judge told Walgren that he did not intend for this case to add to the stress that Shafer and his family are going through after their loss and asked Walgren if his witness needed more time.

Defense Attorney Ed Chernoff then raised an issue with the court expressing his concern over a new toxicology report they received from prosecutors.

"We don't know what it means," Chernoff said.

Chernoff also said he didn't know enough about the content of the report to properly cross-examine Shafer on the topic.

Walgren said the toxicology report is meant to counter the defense's claim that Michael Jackson ingested eight lorazepam tablets.

Judge Pastor ruled court will resume at 8:45AM on Wednesday. He also requested the attorneys to meet with him on Tuesday at 1:30PM.

http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/17/another-trial-delay-testimony-will-resume-wednesday/
 
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