'Off The Wall 2015' News & Discussion Thread

[TheManinTheMirror]

the Triumph Tour 1981, the best live show he ever did, allot of staging and themes he featured in his solo tours derived from this tour.....best show he ever did, all live vocals

I knew that much, but I'm talking about the documentary or whatever.

 

[Tygger]

My only thing is that I don't really want it to be one big package and maybe release the documentary and tour ala carte-one big package can be pricey for an album that you already own in several different mediums. (at least for me).

Understood however; bundling a package can be cost-effective. Bad25 products were separated and had too many variations which was one of the reasons for its poor sales. Too many options can cause a buyer to choose none.

 

[dam2040]

Either any artist is fair game to appearing in the documentary or none of them are.

I never quite understood why people contested to Justin Bieber and Chris Brown appearing in Bad 25 yet are okay with Bruno Mars and Pharrell Williams appearing in this Off the Wall documentary (most definitely personal preference).

I'm fine with Bieber and Brown being in the documentary. You're showing the influence the album has to a young generation. It's not just a "bunch of old dudes talking about an album".

 

[HIStory]

I don't see much OTW influence in Bieber's or Chris Brown's music. Daft Punk, Pharrell, Timberlake would be another matter.

 

[Zakk]

The added material to 'Off The Wall 2015' still isn't Destiny or Triumph Tours.. gutted to say the least.

''Richard Lecocq: Hi Zakk, there will be no full live footage like Destiny or Triumph tour in the box set
mostly the re release and the documentary
all the best,

R''

 

[barbee0715]

I'm fine with Bieber and Brown being in the documentary. You're showing the influence the album has to a young generation. It's not just a "bunch of old dudes talking about an album".

I don't see much OTW influence in Bieber's or Chris Brown's music. Daft Punk, Pharrell, Timberlake would be another matter.

I agree with these sentiments-I'd add Bruno Mars for overall influence. I think it's a smart move, similar to what Michael did himself in "The One" -that's the special where I actually noticed who Pharrell, Beyonce, Jill Scott, Wyclef, and a bunch of others. If these young artists were crazy about Michael, then their fans were going to check him out.


I thought that was smart back when Thriller madness was going on and they had the "Magic Returns" special-I grew up with Michael, but having people of my parent's generation talking about him-Gene Kelly, Hermes Pan, Elizabeth Taylor, Sophia Loren, Sammy Davis, etc. etc. and actually raving on his talent and passing the torch, so to speak, said volumes. It said to all generations that this wasn't just a teeny-bopper artist my kids like-this guy is the real deal.

 

[barbee0715]

The added material to 'Off The Wall 2015' still isn't Destiny or Triumph Tours.. gutted to say the least.

''Richard Lecocq: Hi Zakk, there will be no full live footage like Destiny or Triumph tour in the box set
mostly the re release and the documentary
all the best,

R''

Oh, gee-that really is upsetting. I was dying to get that-seriously.

 

[AlwaysThere]

The added material to 'Off The Wall 2015' still isn't Destiny or Triumph Tours.. gutted to say the least.

Sorry to say, but there was no indication that any tour would be included whatsoever. That came entirely from your mind.

That's why I say we need to keep expectations in check.

 

[Tygger]

The added material to 'Off The Wall 2015' still isn't Destiny or Triumph Tours.. gutted to say the least.

''Richard Lecocq: Hi Zakk, there will be no full live footage like Destiny or Triumph tour in the box set
mostly the re release and the documentary
all the best,

R''

Ah so it will be a box set? The documentary accompanying the CD is a very good idea. I will not rush to purchase this as quickly as I would have if a tour was included. Hopefully there will be full unreleased demos included on the CD; otherwise it will sound like the 2001 re-release.

Sorry to say, but there was no indication that any tour would be included whatsoever. That came entirely from your mind.

That's why I say we need to keep expectations in check.

The possible release of a tour was a wish of several including myself. If we did not express our ideas and wishes, we would not have had the Xscape concept which included the original demos with the remixes. If this CD and documentary are indeed bundled, it would mean Estate/Sony learned from their mistakes with Bad25.

Off-topic: I asked previously but, I do wonder if anyone has this information? Would anyone be able to confirm how many copies of the Wembly show was purchased? I previously read less than 100K which is extremely low.

 

[AlwaysThere]

The possible release of a tour was a wish of several including myself. If we did not express our ideas and wishes, we would not have had the Xscape concept which included the original demos with the remixes. If this CD and documentary are indeed bundled, it would mean Estate/Sony learned from their mistakes with Bad25.

Simply wishing for something is far from a bad thing - as you said, the estate seems to jump off of fan suggestions at times. But the way certain things were articulated essentially begged for disappointment.

Asking for a tour is one thing. Asking for a specific concert, presented in a specific way, is another. Some people went above and beyond and didn't seem to ask for something as much as speak about it as if it was a definite, which is dangerous.

 

[HIStoric]

The added material to 'Off The Wall 2015' still isn't Destiny or Triumph Tours.. gutted to say the least.

''Richard Lecocq: Hi Zakk, there will be no full live footage like Destiny or Triumph tour in the box set
mostly the re release and the documentary
all the best,

R''

How would he know?

 

[HIStoric]

Would anyone be able to confirm how many copies of the Wembly show was purchased? I previously read less than 100K which is extremely low.

It's only shipped (not necessarily sold) 50,000 copies in the USA, shipped 17,500 copies in Australia and sold 10,000 in Poland. Hasn't charted anywhere else and I can't imagine demand for it being high now so yeah, it's almost definitely still under 100K copies.

 

[Tygger]

AlwaysThere, point taken. I do appreciate Zakk's enthusiasm and intention to have Michael's performances in the stellar quality Michael, the artist, deserves.

It's only shipped (not necessarily sold) 50,000 copies in the USA, shipped 17,500 copies in Australia and sold 10,000 in Poland. Hasn't charted anywhere else and I can't imagine demand for it being high now so yeah, it's almost definitely still under 100K copies.

I am unsure how to feel about this. Is less than 100K shipped to mean the expectation was low from the start? Or, for DVDs, 100K is considered successful?

 

[ShipOfFools]

I think all of Michael's 6 Sony albums, plus Blood, are fantastic. Off The Wall is no exception.

I'm definitely up for a reissue, but they need to include TONS of unreleased songs and demos, just like they did for Thriller 25 and Bad 25. Get it right the first time, Sony!

 

[HIStory]

It's only shipped (not necessarily sold) 50,000 copies in the USA, shipped 17,500 copies in Australia and sold 10,000 in Poland. Hasn't charted anywhere else and I can't imagine demand for it being high now so yeah, it's almost definitely still under 100K copies.

Well, these days brand new albums by top artists hardly sell 100K in their first week. See Janet's latest album which sold 1116K in its first week in the US and it was #1. And it's an album, not a DVD. (Albums typically sell a lot more than music DVDs.)

Concert DVDs are not high in demand, anyway (especially old concerts) - and it doesn't have a lot to do with the quality either. Queen's Hungarian Rhapsody is high quality (it was professionally filmed), it was released on DVD and Blue-ray and it was pretty well promoted and I don't think it sold more than Wembley.

So concert DVDs are typically for the hard core fans of that artist, they are not making big sales and big money.

 

[HIStoric]

^^Yeah, I know. Honestly if I didn't follow MJ on social media, I wouldn't have known about it.

Although I remember This Is It was riding the top of the Music DVD charts in my country for some time, like at least a good half year (although that's a different story as thats a feature film with a high marketing budget, but hey!)

 

[AlwaysThere]

This Is It was riding the coattails of Michael's passing - pretty much anything with his name on it was guaranteed to sell at that time.

Nowadays he's an over saturated brand. Xscape did better than anyone expected it would.

 

[dam2040]

I don't see much OTW influence in Bieber's or Chris Brown's music. Daft Punk, Pharrell, Timberlake would be another matter.

Bieber definitely not but Chris Brown for sure. He always releases those MJ style jams. Fine China and more recently, 'Zero' has that great funky sound MJ originated in Off The Wall.

 

[Tygger]

Bad25 was NOT targeted to hard core fans only. Promotions ranged from grand in some markets (particularly markets with Pepsi sponsorship) to nonexistent in others. Bad25 packaging had far too many options for consumers which made all promotions extremely confusing for consumers.

It begs the question for the OTW re-release: how will this be promoted to ensure financial success? The Wembly show promotion was completely ineffective and Sony knew it would not utilize marketing monies effectively for it. Sony's lukewarm to ice cold support of Wembly was most likely linked to its poor quality; thus the shipment of 100K globally of what was recognized as a subpar product before it was released to market.

I fear for the OTW re-release. It is late October and there is no excitement about a pending release. If Sony is not 100% supportive of OTW's success, why should fans/purchasers be supportive?

I hope it is not regulated to purchase from SonyDirect only. However; I do not see why the general public would be interested in a documentary and a decades old album with – if we are fortunate- unheard demos.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

The added material to 'Off The Wall 2015' still isn't Destiny or Triumph Tours.. gutted to say the least.

''Richard Lecocq: Hi Zakk, there will be no full live footage like Destiny or Triumph tour in the box set
mostly the re release and the documentary
all the best,

R''

This true?

So basically the documentary with the album? I'm guessing they've got a warehouse full of 2001 special editions they want to get shot of so their just throwing leftover copies that didn't ship in with the DVD lol. Nothing more than a promoted reissue lmao.

So no bonus tracks, demos and no Triumph concert! Meh...pretty much what I expected. Wasted opportunity again. Instead of flooding the market with pointless merch, why not hold back and release proper boxsets with substance. I'll probably skip this one. A Triumph concert would have sold me.

 

[AlwaysThere]

^^ LeCocq is an unimpeachable source so I would take his word as law more or less. I don't think bonus tracks are out of the question just yet though - Richard only ruled out a live DVD supplement and never mentioned anything else.

As far as Jacksons concerts are concerned, I'm relatively certain the estate would need the approval of all four (five?) brothers. I haven't kept up with the relationship between the John duo and the Jackson family but I believe it's still substantially strained. I recall Jackie and Marlon throwing praise at the producers of the Xscape album for their work while Jermaine simultaneously complained that he wasn't asked to contribute.

 

[barbee0715]

^^Maybe so but I can't see them not wanting their fans see them once again in a tour in their absolute prime.
It would revive interest in those 2 albums and increase royalties too. Would help their current tour too-up the nostalgia factor even higher.

(Jermaine wasn't in Triumph so they could skip him, but I'd love the Estate to work out a deal with all of them to get Victory too).

 

[Deleted member 9375]

Yeah, I've jumped to conclusions I guess just based on low expectations, actually Ive had no real expectations about an OTW release. The documentary has been in the process now for what? 6,7,8 months?
MJ used footage of Truimph on The One special. They've got to get the brothers on side surely as it increases material to release. Everything could be tied in and it wouldn't hurt the Jackson brothers either as they would be getting great promotion off the MJ machine and newer MJ fans would learn more about MJ's history and get some of MJ's finest performances as well as showcasing the brothers in their prime as Barbee said. Destiny, Triumph and Victory albums and tours are so important to solo MJ's evolution and it would be a great selling point to get each albums corresponding tour as well as all the extra Jackson tracks. Suddenly a release with minimal material would double.

 

[HIStoric]

The documentary has been in the process now for what? 6,7,8 months?

Not unusual.

 

[Tygger]

Simple fan folklore that the Jackson brothers are somehow preventing the release of Victory/Triumph. Who truly believes the Estate is anxious to release Victory/Triumph but, they have been hindered by the Jackson brothers? If that were true, the Estate would have issued a statement as they have in the past about Michael's family members.

It is simply foolish to not release Triumph only for fear it promotes Michael's career as a group leader as opposed to a solo artist. That transitioning happened during the OTW era! Michael's full musical legacy - which includes his career as The Jackson Five front man - has yet to be managed correctly by his estate. It is NOT the Jackson brothers who are preventing the release of any Jackson concert as they do not have that control. It is Michael’s estate as they prevented the release of other footage of Michael since his passing.

No need to believe me. Victory footage appeared on The Jacksons Vevo channel and was removed. In fact the only video on The Jacksons Vevo channel is the one where Michael does not appear.

 

[AlwaysThere]

The estate has yet to put any effort into a Jacksons-related release, but one would imagine that in the event that they did, one of the brothers would cause some sort of storm. None of them (as far as I'm aware) have shown any respect for the executors since the Cascio fiasco. Which would work against them if they ever tried to do the release independently/with another label because I believe Michael's estate could shut them down.

Similar to the estate editing out a Prince song from the Bad Groove in Wembley - if the artist/estate says no there's nothing they can do. And a Jacksons show is at the very least half solo material from Michael.

 

[HIStoric]

Similar to the estate editing out a Prince song from the Bad Groove in Wembley - if the artist/estate says no there's nothing they can do.

Did Prince decline the use or did the Estate take it out regardless of his stance?

 

[AlwaysThere]

Did Prince decline the use or did the Estate take it out regardless of his stance?

I don't believe the estate ever made an official statement, but I do recall someone reliable publicly stating that he refused to give permission. Sort of what he did regarding his unpronounceable symbol on the Michael album cover.

 

[HIStoric]

I don't believe the estate ever made an official statement, but I do recall someone reliable publicly stating that he refused to give permission. Sort of what he did regarding his unpronounceable symbol on the Michael album cover.

Ahh ok. Thanks.

 

[Tygger]

The estate has yet to put any effort into a Jacksons-related release, but one would imagine that in the event that they did, one of the brothers would cause some sort of storm.

No.

Do you remember DePasse comments about the M25 rehearsals?

http://www.************************...0/LMJ-Exclusive-full-transcript-Motown-25.pdf

Heres your Answer why

We have seen zero attention from the Michael Jackson estate [*]regarding the Motown 25 release.I believe sharing it on the official]MichaelJackson account would give the release a great boost among Michael Jackson fans, so my question is did you get in touch with the Michael Jackson estate regarding the release or does it have their support?

Suzanne Depasse: Yes, it does. so the estate had to work with us to grant us as much as they felt comfortable with of footage that we could use because as one could imagine, they have a number of their own projects going and just didn't want to, I suspect, flood the marketplace, although that we know that Michael Jackson fans, there is no such thing as flooding.

No mention of the Jackson brothers unless of course, one believes they did disapprove and DePasse felt the need to omit that information in an effort to protect them from whomever one believes DePasse would protect them from. One would also have to believe DePasse felt no need to protect the MJ Estate.

Which would work against them if they ever tried to do the release independently/with another label because I believe Michael's estate could shut them down

The Jacksons were with Epic which is Sony. Sony would prevent them as they did with the Jacksons' Vevo page that is own by Sony under the direction of their business partners, the MJ Estate.

The Estate has no interest in releasing Victory/Triumph. Both tours contain Michael's likeness and that is why they have not been release. Has nothing to do with the Jackson brothers. That is fan folklore.