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Preliminary Hearing 5/1/11 Day two. Discussion thread

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when that news update came I said to myself "another MJ trial and his penis is once again mentioned". It seems like regardless of the year and type of lawsuit a mention of MJ's penis happens.
 
MJFan07 said:
You make a very good point. But for me, b/c we will never hear MJ's side of the story I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt in the situation. I remember Dr. Patrick Treacy saying that this behaviour was completely out of character for Michael and he himself found it hard to believe MJ would have agreed to being given Propofal by Murray based on past behavior. We will never know what MJ did or did not agree to and what he really knew. I think as the victim he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Plus, it's ultimately the doctor's responsibility to administer the proper care and at the end of the day even if MJ did ask for it, it should be irrelevant to the charges at hand. The prosecution needs to be sure to stress this to the Jury. That's why I don't get why the defense keeps trying to paint MJ in a bad light. It's irrelevant. MJ's not on trial. Murray is.
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imo... i think he knew about propofol.. i also dont ever think we will be clear on whether he asked for it or not. i am not so sure if muarry would go through the trouble of getting it if mj didnt want it. if he did then there is a problem. i jstill believe its muarrys fault that mj isnt here though. i know mj isnt on trial but alot of stuff is going to be said by the defense to try to vilify him. thats just how it happens.
 
chanel05 said:
idk what you were responding to but if youre talike about mjs height..
in the us we dont use meters to measure height. we use inches and feet. the autopsy reprt said he was 69inches which is 5.75 or 5 feet 7 and 1/2 of inch
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I know that, I responded to what I quoted in the post, I corrected the person who said that 1.75 m equals 5 foot 2 inches. It's 5 foot 9 inches. And 69 inches is 5 foot 9 inches actually. If someone wants to do the whole BMI thing for whatever reason, people should at least get the numbers right.

P. S. Just saw that this was already answered about 10 times.
 
ivy said:
when that news update came I said to myself "another MJ trial and his penis is once again mentioned". It seems like regardless of the year and type of lawsuit a mention of MJ's penis happens.
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Maybe we are not going to focus on this? I would slap this bodyguard on his face who testified today in court. Can you please delete some previous comments in order to respect Michael and some people who do not wnat to read this ? Thanks.
 
Asedora said:
Maybe we are not going to focus on this? I would slap this bodyguard on his face who testified today in court. Can you please delete some previous comments in order to respect Michael and some people who do not wnat to read this ? Thanks.
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WTH? You think it was irrelevant from Alberto to testify about what he saw?! The whole case is about what happened in detail. Come on.
 
Ramona122003 said:
True, but that's not how they see it. Murray did something stupid, but Michael was equally stupid for going along with it, even after being warn. He wasn't even an addict so it wasn't like he wasn't thinking clearly. He didn't even chose a person who was an expect in the drug he was taking. That's how they see it.

To them, they can't understand how a family man with his entire life ahead of them could throw it all away on something so pointless and silly.

I don't agree, but other have their opinions too and you have to take those opinions into account when thinking about who will be on that jury. The fact is, some people will not be that sympathetic towards Michael because they may be thinking in the back of their minds, 'that stupid moron'. And lets face it, we've all done it. Even if you take his kids into account they would still call him an idiot for allowing himself to be taking advantage of and killed.

They hate Murray, but they will always shake their heads at Michael.
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I know things aren't always that simple, but a jury is not supposed to go by their gut feeling, but to just look at the facts. And that a doctor has to make those decisions and not the patient, even if they are begging on their knees, that's a fact. They can think that he was an idiot all they want, but being an idiot doesn't mean a doctor can do whatever to you and kill you with it in the end.

(I'm not saying he was an idiot, just referring to that part of your post)
 
Topflux said:
WTH? You think it was irrelevant from Alberto to testify about what he saw?! The whole case is about what happened in detail. Come on.
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Yes, I think it freaking irrelevant because it is not important. If he respected Michael he should avoid such details becuase it is alredy in coroner report and it is not new. We alredy know medical details. Alberto is son of a bitch. If he wants to save his own ass talking crap, it is not going to happen.
 
Good night everyone. We will meet up tomorrow with more facts.
 
One other thing that still raises questions is, if MJ really wanted Murray to help him to go to sleep at 10:40 a.m., which was just a couple of hours before he was due back at rehearsal, then why would MJ have a tube of toothpaste at the foot of the bed on the same side that he had slept on? Doesn't this seem more like he was preparing to get ready?
 
Justthefacts said:
Desperate people do desperate things. I don't think any of us have ever been pushed to the extremes he was getting pushed to when it came to not sleeping
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I've been suffering from insomnia for more than 20 years. It's horrible and one MIGHT beg doctors do give them all kinds of things for it. That's why I said, if he actually asked for it, that doesn't mean anything and is something that should be seen as a "symptom" of insomnia, because you do get desperate at times. Every doctor knows or should know that. And tell you "no".
 
Petrarose said:
This is the last time I will take about a wig. I have a lacefront wig and it is not attached to my hair. I had blond extensions for Christmas and New Years to have a different look and that was attached to my hair. However, you are right I am not an expert. Since a wig did not kill Michael, I will leave it at that. Lets get back to the charges.
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okay this is my last time 2... i was just trying to help you understand something better. dont get testy with me... i was just trying to help you... OKAY. i understand what they said but im assuming thats what they meant. if it was the kind of extension he would need to acheive his look they would have to be professionaly removed. i also dont think they meant attached as in bonded by strand either but attached to the overall hair.. i was just trying to help you thats all
 
Milka said:
Well, if something like "he asked for it" comes up at the trial, the prosecutors have to make sure that the jury gets to hear this (= that it doesn't matter if he asked for it, doctors make those decisions, not the patients) from an expert witness. Same with the "drug addict" thing - because that would just be all the more reason not to give him ANYTHING.

Also, I remember how shocked I was last year in June when I read that he was given an anesthetic as treatment for insomnia (when did we get that info? June 26, I guess?). I knew right there and then that this was what killed him, because anesthetics can be very dangerous and a risk even during routine surgery. You don't use it the way Murray did. That alone was enough for me. At that point I didn't know anything about the timeline or not having the right (or any) equipment there or the "clean up" before the 911 call, hadn't heard about the doctor not knowing CPR and there was also no autopsy report yet. But I was 99 % sure that the Propofol was the COD and that the doctor would get in a lot of trouble just for giving it to him. And then add all the other stuff that we know now ... a jury would have to be completely dense not to come to the same conclusion as I did a day or two after his passing.
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i agree
 
Milka said:
I know that, I responded to what I quoted in the post, I corrected the person who said that 1.75 m equals 5 foot 2 inches. It's 5 foot 9 inches. And 69 inches is 5 foot 9 inches actually. If someone wants to do the whole BMI thing for whatever reason, people should at least get the numbers right.

P. S. Just saw that this was already answered about 10 times.
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its fine... thats happens 2 me also
 
chanel05 said:
imo... i think he knew about propofol.. i also dont ever think we will be clear on whether he asked for it or not. i am not so sure if muarry would go through the trouble of getting it if mj didnt want it. if he did then there is a problem. i jstill believe its muarrys fault that mj isnt here though. i know mj isnt on trial but alot of stuff is going to be said by the defense to try to vilify him. thats just how it happens.
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I know. It just sucks. I think it's so classless for the defense to put any of this on MJ. I hope the jurors see right through it.

I'm actually surprised the prosecution doesn't object to any of the drug addict references. Maybe b/c it's the preliminary hearing and they wanna get a feeling for the defense strategy? If there was a jury present and I was the prosecution I would definitely object and ask how is it relevant to the charges at hand.
 
it is a update that is from errin who sit inside the court. she call the chat today and yesterday and tell us all what happen.

for second video they say about the lawyer, that he is a shark!! and he twist everything around! and called michael a drug addict three times! he start to twist more things around. for the first video it just say about the paramedic speaking and he already know that michael is gone because of the blue color of michael's feet and hands.
 
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Asedora said:
Yes, I think it freaking irrelevant because it is not important. If he respected Michael he should avoid such details becuase it is alredy in coroner report and it is not new. We alredy know medical details. Alberto is son of a bitch. If he wants to save his own ass talking crap, it is not going to happen.
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He is a nice guy and Michael loved him.. There's no saving his ass and it's not crap.
 
I just read 35 pages of this thread and it's very hard to take in:cry:
he left michael in that room ALONE.god this is worser than i thought.


ivy said:
12:18 pm

Lunch. I'm trying to wolf down my lunch and answer E-mails at the same time. Just a few moments ago, Harriet Ryan of the LA Times confirmed to me that Janet Jackson did attend the morning session. Alberto Alvarez's testimony is concluded. Alvarez testified that after he helped Dr. Murray move Michael Jackson off the bed and onto the floor he assisted in CPR on Jackson. Alvarez testified that Dr. Murray said to him, "This is the first time I've given mouth to mouth but I have to do it because he's my friend."
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God why he even bothered to waste time to say BS like this when his patient's life was at stake?No one care about you Murry!What was he thinking?He thought he was in a movie or something?



PrincessMichaela said:
We don't know that Alberto didn't know 911 hadn't been called. I think I probably would assume that Murray had already called (since that would be the FIRST thing I'd do if I were the one who found him). I would assume that help was already on the way and in the meantime I'd probably do whatever the doctor (at the time, the respected higher authority) asked me to do.
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i agreed.one would properly assumed that the doctor has dialed 911 already or has already asked someone to do it .
 
he people i could not sleep its night here

but ive got questions i hope you all will look at

1. where was alvaraz when the paramedics came and murray told him the lie about the meds?

2. why did the paramedics tryed to revive him a while at home and not at the hospital? did they tube him at home?

3. Is there going to be a official transcript?
 
MsJustinBieber said:
it is a update that is from errin who sit inside the court. she call the chat today and yesterday and tell us all what happen.

for second video they say about the lawyer, that he is a shark!! and he twist everything around! and called michael a drug addict three times! he start to twist more things around.

for the first video it just say about the paramedic speaking and he already know that michael is gone because of the blue color of michael's feet and hands.
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Oh. Ok thank you. I know that he is a shark but some fans call him stupid , but that's OK. If Chernoff will go to a root I think is a right one, it is fine., and this is what I personally was expecting from him. So far I feel that he goes to that root. Twisting is OK. I am not afraid of twisting, because you always can twist back.

Blue feet and blue hands are indication that Michael was dead when paramedics arrived.
 
Topflux said:
He is a nice guy and Michael loved him.. There's no saving his ass and it's not crap.
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I will talk to you about "nice guy" after the trial or even before when it will be proven wrong. Just remember this converstaion.
 
no but he twist everything around! he was lawyer of britney spears. he put blame on paramedics and say they not doing their job.
 
i dont know but he was telling the paramedic how to do his job! he mostly say how michael was a drug addict and the paramedic do not recognize him because he was a addict. errin say it is terrible and never seen michael's mother get so angry in her life when he keep calling her son a drug addict :(
 
MsJustinBieber said:
i dont know but he was telling the paramedic how to do his job! he mostly say how michael was a drug addict and the paramedic do not recognize him because he was a addict. errin say it is terrible and never seen michael's mother get so angry in her life when he keep calling her son a drug addict :(
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I think we do not need to panic. it is only a second day of prelim and it is still a loooong way to go.
 
Going back a few pages, some were surprised that an EMT didn't immediately recognize the victim as Michael Jackson. But as I visualize this horrific scene, I'm not sure how recognizable he was: usual hairstyle hidden, possibly no makeup, pajamas askew, and motionlessly dead/dying.... plus the EMTs' focus on helping the patient, any patient, they may not be thinking about identification right away.

Has anyone answered yet: at what point did the EMTs learn it was Michael Jackson? When did someone confirm this to them?
 
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