Marcos Cabotá reveals the secrets of "Sonic Fantasy" (MJStreet interview translated from French)
In 2 years, "Thriller" celebrates its 40th anniversary. A celebration of an album that, to date remains the best-selling of all time. This unbeatable myth inspired the Spanish director Marcos Cabotá. A great fan of the King of Pop, he decided to embark on an ambitious project: telling the story of "Thriller" in the form of a documentary that gives voice to those who were close to Michael Jackson in studio in 1982. In this singular time marked by the COVID-19, the director took the time to reveal some secrets of this highly anticipated project.
MJStreet: How was the project born?
Marcos Cabotá: First of all, I love Michael Jackson and I am also a director here in Spain. The last documentary I made, 3-4 years ago now, is called "I Am Your Father", and it talks about Darth Vader. It was a great success and has been sold worldwide. Netflix has bought the rights. I was also nominated for a Goya (‘the Spanish Oscars’
for this documentary, it was just amazing. Since then, many of my friends kept saying to me, "Now you have to make a documentary about Michael Jackson." Because they know that in my life, I have two passions: Star Wars and Michael Jackson. I didn’t know where to start because Michael Jackson is such a vast subject that I was a little confused. So I had to take my time and think. If I were to make a documentary on Michael Jackson, I didn't want to make a film just for the fans. I wanted to make a documentary aimed at everyone. Michael’s impact is global and we had to find the best angle. And then I thought of "Thriller". It’s the best-selling album in history, and there’s only one in the world on such a level. I realized that there was nothing on "Thriller". The Estate did nothing. I find it incredible that there is no documentary devoted to the best-selling album of all time. There have been books, but no film devoted to "Thriller".
So I started to consult these books. Besides, "Thriller" is not my favorite album. So I wanted to try to better understand the history of this record, to better understand its impact. And I realized that there was a real story to tell there. Then my friends Toni Arias and Laura Serrano (from MJHideOut.com) played a big part in this story. As a director I know that I have to have the support of people like them. Toni is like a living encyclopedia of Michael Jackson, and Laura is second to none when it comes to organizing a project. So, with these two people by my side, things were already a little simpler. Later, Toni, Laura and me, went to France to attend the MJ Music Day, which offered an interesting seminar led by Michael Prince and Brad Buxer. We were there just as fans to attend this event. At one point, they show the trailer for a documentary devoted to the career of Bruce Swedien, from his Chicago debut to the album "Invincible".
I contacted the director of this film, Gareth Maynard, who is an English man and who had shelved this film several years ago. I was watching this documentary and I said to myself, "It's good. It's not perfect, but it's not bad". I watched it with my professional eye, as a director. And I found it unfortunate that this film could not be broadcasted and seen properly around the world. At the end of the screening, I went to see Gareth to tell him: "You have a very beautiful film there". And I added, "What are you going to do with it? And he said, "Nothing. It's been seven years since I made it. I didn’t manage to sell it, so there’s nothing more I can do.”
I went home and, a week later, I called Gareth back and said, "I'm going to film a documentary about ‘Thriller’ and I would love to have Bruce Swedien on it. It would allow me to talk about this album from Bruce's point of view. Would you agree to put me in touch with him so that I can interview him at his home in Florida? I would go there to film a new interview and ask him new questions. But I need your work as a base and your agreement."
We discussed it all together and he said "OK". He had taken the time to see my other films and he liked the way I worked. He agreed with my proposal, that's how he became producer of "Sonic Fantasy".
So I got to see Gareth’s movie and the footage he shot. There are a few things I use in my film, but 95% of the documentary is made up of new footage.
I had to re-film the interviews, notably for reasons of broadcast standards. When you broadcast on TV or Netflix, you must meet certain technical standards. And for his documentary, Gareth had used his own camera, but it didn't meet these standards. So I re-filmed everything with cinema cameras, in 4K.
The Sonic Fantasy team with Jerry Hey. Photo: Toni Arias
MJStreet: How did you select the people to interview for this documentary? Did you start from a ready-made list or did you solicit certain people as you filmed?
Marcos Cabotá: I made a list to start with. I also started from books like the one you wrote with Francois (Allard), it was very useful to me. But I also wanted to interview people who had worked with Bruce Swedien and Michael, even if they weren't part of the "Thriller" project, like Brad Buxer. I wanted them to tell me about the relationship between Michael and Bruce Swedien. And also, when I was at Bruce's house to film his interview, he said to me: "Oh, you should also question this person!" And that's how I added other names to the list! Normally, for a 2-hour documentary, you select 15 people to interview. And for this one we have retained 30. I could have gone even further, but in fact we only have 2 hours for this documentary. So we had to make choices.
MJStreet: During the making of this documentary, did certain ideas that you thought you had acquired turn out to be different in reality? Have you changed your mind about certain aspects of "Thriller" by discovering new things?
Marcos Cabotá: Absolutely! Actually, I like "Thriller" a lot, but after making this movie, I like it even more. I understand why it became the best-selling album in history. It’s not just a question of songs and music, it’s also a question of context, of the time when it all happened. It depends on a lot of things related to the record industry, but also to society in general. These are all factors that also explain the success of "Thriller". I discovered things that I didn't know about the album and, of course, I incorporated them into the film.
Shooting at Westlake Studio D. Photo: Toni Arias
MJStreet: You told me that "Thriller" is not your favorite album... So what is your favorite Michael Jackson album?
Marcos Cabotá: "Dangerous"! I love everything about this album. I like the way Michael Jackson, with Teddy Riley and other producers like Bill Bottrell and Brad Buxer, have worked on this record. I like the innovative sound of "Dangerous" with songs like "Jam", "Why You Wanna Trip On Me" or "In The Closet". To me, "Who Is It" is a masterpiece. I really like "Thriller", and now that I've been working on this documentary for almost two years, it's an album that I love even more. It is magic. There is this incredible team formed by Quincy Jones, Michael Jackson and Bruce Swedien, without forgetting Rod Temperton. This is something that cannot happen again... This new documentary is for everyone. We all know the songs "Thriller" and "Billie Jean". My goal is that once people see this movie, they will listen to the album in a completely different way.
MJStreet: I saw on the documentary site that the film contains an interview with Quincy Jones. Was it easy for you to contact him? Because sometimes he asks not to be questioned about his time with Michael. Did Bruce Swedien's involvement in the project work in your favor?
Marcos Cabotá: Yes, in fact everyone we see in the documentary agreed to participate in the project because Bruce Swedien was the starting point of the adventure. Because, in addition to telling the story of "Thriller, we are also, in a way, retracing the journey of Bruce Swedien. That’s why all these people agreed to be part of the film. They love Bruce, and in fact it was Bruce himself who called Quincy Jones for us.
MJStreet: If I understand correctly, the documentary will be available on Netflix. As you are dealing with a legendary album, did you obtain the rights to use the music of "Thriller" in order to include it in the documentary?
Marcos Cabotá: First of all, I want to clarify that for the moment the broadcast on Netflix is ​​not confirmed. It is true that my previous documentary has been broadcast on Netflix around the world, but for the moment I do not know if it will land on Netflix, Amazon or elsewhere. But, in any case, my goal is to spread it around the world, via Netflix or another platform.
And concerning music is a very good question. In fact, in my Star Wars documentary, I was not allowed to use the soundtracks from the film. So I made sure to make a documentary in which music didn't matter as much, so that people who watch it wouldn't mind. For "Sonic Fantasy", I got in touch with the Estate. As I speak to you, I am not yet authorized to use the music of "Thriller". But what I can already say is that Brad Buxer is part of the soundtrack of the documentary. He plays songs on the piano, and he also plays Michael Jackson’s songs. But I hope the Estate will let me use the music. In a way, this documentary focuses mainly on the history of the album. I do not want to "spoil" precious minutes by playing a whole song, because there is a lot to tell about the creation of the album. I want to spend more time on the details, anecdotes, images, photos and testimonials that I was able to collect during my investigation. Music is important, but that's not all.
MJStreet: Now that you've made this documentary, do you understand better why "Thriller" became the best-selling album in history?
Marcos Cabotá: Yes, absolutely. As you will see in the film, they all wanted to do something huge. This project was born out of a frustration that Michael had in him, because he had won only one Grammy Award for "Off The Wall", which had already won a great success with the audience. "Thriller" was born in a very specific social and political context. There was the devastation of disco music on the record industry. Quincy, Michael and Bruce wanted to release the best album possible. And in fact they planned it all. This is what I show in the film. Quincy Jones very often says, "You can't predict these things." OK, that's right, but the three of them knew very well inside that they were doing something huge. They were constantly looking for the best of the best: not only for the songs, but also for the musicians and the techniques used in the studio. In a way, they knew very well that they were creating something great.
Back to your question, I now understand why it became the best-selling album of all time. The strong point of "Thriller" is that you can listen to it today without being able to say when it was created. It remains up to date. It’s like it was recorded yesterday.
Marcos Cabotá watching footage with Taryll Jackson.
MJStreet: When will the documentary finally be released? Has a date already been set?
Marcos Cabotá: The editing is 90% complete and we had to finish it a few weeks ago. But because of the current pandemic, we had to take a break. We plan to finish it by the end of the summer, and to release the film at the end of the year... and why not on the anniversary date of the release of the album!
MJStreet: In the documentary, do you mention the fact that the "E.T. Storybook" project completely changed the planning of "Thriller", to the point of damaging the final rendering of the first master of the album?
Marcos Cabotá: Yes, absolutely. And besides, this part on the "E.T. Storybook" is one of the most important parts of the documentary. With hindsight, we realize that this story played a very important role in the production of "Thriller", with in particular the problems encountered with the record company MCA. Michael had to leave the studio to devote himself to this album, and in fact it changed the story of "Thriller".
Marcos Cabotá and Michael Jackson, (World Music Awards, 2006)
MJStreet: Do you want to add something else?
Marcos Cabotá: Yes, I have received a lot of questions regarding this documentary. People want to know what's in it. I want to reassure them: I love Michael Jackson, and this documentary contains nothing negative about it, quite the contrary. Others have asked me what Quincy Jones is like, how he talks about Michael etc. Here again I reassure you: Quincy loves Michael. I’ve also heard people say that Bruce was a little bit embittered towards Michael… Again, I want to reassure everyone: Bruce loves Michael. And I also want to add that this film presents the person, the human being that was Michael Jackson. This is something that we managed to highlight in this documentary. Everyone we met loves Michael and talks about him with great affection. I can't wait for people to enjoy "Sonic Fantasy". Personally, when I watched it, I had tears in my eyes. I made this film with love, just like you and Francois wrote your book with love and passion.
People shouldn't expect a documentary like those of Spike Lee on "BAD 25" or "Off The Wall". His approach was to treat albums song by song. For my part, I wanted to tell the story around "Thriller", and I therefore gave great importance to storytelling. We have avoided being too technical for fear of cutting ourselves off from part of the audience. You have to see this documentary as a beautiful story, like a love story. It's a love story with people who love music, and who, at one point in their lives, put all that love into the making of this album, "Thriller". I’m really looking forward to releasing this film. This is my seventh documentary, and I can already say that it is my favorite.*
Interview by Richard Lecocq
Special thanks to Toni Arias (Xtarlight)
