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Sony and Jackson Estate reach agreement for Sony to acquire remaining half of Sony/ATV Music Publish

144 said:
Sony is clinging 'religiously' to that one asset. And, got the whole thing. And you say it 'might' have not been a smart thing. It worked for Michael, for years. The bottom line is, whatever debts MJ has were constantly being paid off by the power of this asset. The value of the asset is tremendously huge. If it wasn't doing it's job, why was such a big company desperate to have the whole thing? Nobody ever could say that, eventually, the debts couldn't be paid off, because it paid the bills, every year. There were just estimates being made of when those debts would be paid off.
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It's been explained over and over again why an $750 million investment for a multinational company with many legs to stand on, like Sony, is very different than to an Estate. A huge company with billions of dollars of profit a year can carry risks that an Estate cannot. Sony also has better a infrastructure to make money of this assett than the Estate does.

Of course, it's possible that the Estate could pay off all debts in 20-30-40 years from now, but until then it would not really create any genuine profit. Meanwhile they could have just taken the money, get rid of all debts at once and put put the money into business that brings genuine profit in all those 20-30-40 years. They opted for the latter. I cannot say it's foolish.

That asset was much more of a sure thing than the uncharted waters of 'diversifying'.
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"Uncharted waters of diversifying"?

It's simple business 101 that diversifying assets is usually more healhy and more secure in investment than putting all your eggs into one basket, so to speak.
 
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144 said:
Sony is clinging 'religiously' to that one asset. And, got the whole thing. And you say it 'might' have not been a smart thing.
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It would be not smart thing for the Estate but not Sony… Sony sure have plans.

We cannot take Sony and the Estate as equal players.
 
So, we got two stories here. Either I believe Michael's story, that this catalogue was something Sony wanted badly and that they would kill for it, or I believe the 'reports' that Michael was constantly in financial trouble, and selling this cat was a good idea. Michael stated in his songs, in his protests that people will believe reports, and they're not going to believe him. Reports can be made up, along with documents. And, people will say Michael could be making up stories as well. A lot could continue to be said, for both sides, so..I'll just agree to disagree with Michael always being in trouble. This guy was always a cash cow, right up to the massive sellout of tickets to This Is It, despite the media constantly claiming he was irrelevant. Always, this massive cash cow, but, somehow, in massive debt, which is an oxymoron to me. Bad things have been said about him, the moment he first acquired the catalogue. From that moment, they never stopped being said. Personal attacks on his skin, to personal debt. He never seemed to have this cloud over him, according to media, until he got the catalogue. All I can see, here, is a pattern, that continued from the moment he got the catalogue, to his death. And when Michael seemed able to handle each story, a new one came along, which makes me suspicious of all the stories, against him, including the debt one. So, people will believe what reports they'll believe. Arguments can be made that each side's reports are very convincing, to whomever. Bottom line is, there are two stories being told. Not one. There's always this saying that there are actually three sides. And the middle side is supposed to be the truth. I can choose to believe all the reports you speak of, and that are written on this site, about Michael's debt..or I can choose to believe what Michael had to say about the catalogue, in his protest. Either way, I will believe SOMETHING at face value. Either what came out of Michael's mouth can be considered fact, or what's written, opposed to what he said, can be considered fact. I'm not going back and forth on this, anymore. I just believe Michael.

I will believe him, instead of the opposing stories about the catalogue not being enough to take care of his family at this time, that he's supposedly not equipped to handle the catalogue, though Sony's, supposedly, the only one that can handle that catalogue, because of how big they are, though, others have said that they'd be in the front of the line, if it was sold again (so, apparently sony's not the only one, and apparently the catalogue's good enough to handle the needs of many, since it's so coveted.)

I'll take Michael Jackson's frugal, patient, delayed-gratification- salvation army(charity spending aka "overspending") money mentality over branca/sony's destructive instant gratification army never-get-enough-fast-enough money mentality, any day of the week.
 
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^144,000, we all believe Michael.

But selling catalog in 2001 and selling catalog now – these are two different stories.

It WAS NOT a good idea; it IS NOW a good idea according to the circumstances we have NOW!

There is no smart man to help Branca… The man who could create is gone; he cannot help his Estate or his children to get out of the debt anymore.

The man who could keep on working, earning and risking is gone.

Johns cannot risk it all! It does not belong to them to risk everything of what is important to the smart man.
 
144 said:
Sony is clinging 'religiously' to that one asset.
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Sony isn't clinging to one asset though. Sony is a global conglomerate with multiple different product categories -such as electronics, ps4, movies etc. that gives them the chance to diversify and cover losses of any of the divisions by the profits of other divisions.

144 said:
I'll just agree to disagree with Michael always being in trouble. This guy was always a cash cow, right up to the massive sellout of tickets to This Is It, despite the media constantly claiming he was irrelevant. Always, this massive cash cow, but, somehow, in massive debt, which is an oxymoron to me.
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it's not an oxymoron. he had the capacity to earn a lot of money but unless he performed he couldn't earn that money. If he did TII or any other concert and had earned money he could have paid his debt. However he didn't perform or released an album for years.

And a side note : At this time I don't get rejection of his debts. The $320 Million loan on catalog was confirmed in 2006 by Michael's own lawyers during the lawsuit brought by Randy's friends.
 
An article.

Media & Entertainment
The Little Black Book of Billionaire Secrets
MAR 22, 2016 @ 01:00 PM 41 VIEWS
Even After $750M Sony/ATV Deal, Michael Jackson Misconceptions Abound




Zack O'Malley Greenburg ,FORBES STAFF
I cover the business of music, media & entertainment.
FOLLOW ON FORBES (2209)

TWEET THIS
But to give McCartney full credit for Jackson’s ATV purchase would be like saying Dr. Dre’s ***** inspiration came from the first person who gave him a pair of headphones.
“I would have to say that his business acumen is better than mine.”

The Underrated King: Jackson’s musical chops are widely acclaimed, but he rarely receives recognition for his business acumen. (Photo: AFP/Getty Images).

Generally speaking, when an entertainer scores hundreds of millions of dollars in a single deal, or pulls in nine figures in a single year, the superlatives rain down in comparable quantity.

When Dr. Dre notched $620 million in 2014, mostly from the sale of ***** to Apple AAPL +0.89% for $3 billion, The Guardian called him a “genius” and Apple chief Tim Cook compared bringing him on to “finding the precise grain of sand on the beach.” Other visionary entertainers like Oprah Winfrey, Stephen Spielberg and Jay Z regularly receive similar honorifics for their business sense.

Yet when Michael Jackson scored $750 million from beyond the grave for the sale of his half of the Sony/ATV catalogue–the Beatles-packed core of which he purchased for $47.5 million in 1985–major outlets seemed to think it was simply a fortuitous coincidence.

A perfect example was a headline in the New York Times: ”Paul McCartney’s Tip To Michael Jackson Pays Off.” Indeed, the former Beatle and Jackson were once close, and discussed the publishing business at length. But to give McCartney full credit for Jackson’s ATV purchase would be like saying Dr. Dre’s ***** inspiration came from the first person who gave him a pair of headphones.

As I explained in my book, Michael Jackson, Inc., the King of Pop’s original ATV deal was the product of many months of careful deliberation, negotiation, and–most importantly–persistence by Jackson in the face of advisers who tried to convince him he was overpaying for the catalogue.

“Turns out that it was a very lucrative investment,” then-CBS Records chief Walter Yetnikoff, one of the naysayers, told me in an interview for the book. “I would have to say that his business acumen is better

It’s that acumen that helped Jackson earn more than $1 billion during his life and more than $1 billion after death, even before the Sony/ATV sale. His haul this year is already the highest annual total for any entertainer measured by FORBES. When the dust settles, Jackson’s total earnings could soon surpass $3 billion on both sides of the grave.

To be sure, Jackson made his share of financial mistakes, and later in life was beset by a crushing debt load in the hundreds of millions. But to let that completely obfuscate the revolutionary moves he did make–in addition to ATV, starting his own shoe line and clothing line a decade before the likes of Jay Z and Diddy, for example–is a disservice to his legacy, and to the truth.
 
Another thing with stockholder's is that they want a company that pays a dividend. Then they know the company is truly profitable.

The Estate is doing the right thing selling. There isn't exactly a Board of Director's, so it isn't exactly a growing company. The 3 children of Michael's may rather have the cash and do what they want with it. OR now that there is an abundant of cash, the Estate can buy Neverland, or I'm just dreaming.


 
I can't believe the media are still writing pathetic articles about Paul McCartney getting his 'publishing rights back' for the Beatles songs. Language like 'which Michael Jackson outbid him in', 'which Michael Jackson bought from underneath him'. It's really getting tiresome how they think they can just re-write this. Why is the media so obsessed with this issue? I mean, other than racism of course. What about other artists getting their publishing rights 'back'? What about the publishing rights Paul has to other artists songs?

I'm also furious at the flurry of news stories appearing in the last 24 hours regarding the kids 'losing the majority of their inheritance'. The vast majority of these articles suggest (in not so many words) that this IRS tax dispute is somehow MJ's fault and that his financial recklessness in life means the kids will end up with nothing. I realise that this is a little off topic but man, such intentionally misleading articles that are both malicious and stupid, it really gets me sometimes. They will never stop trying to belittle MJ. Rant over.
 
Why is there all this fuss? Who really cares at this point? Michael is dead, the estate has made what? $709million profit? What good did hanging on to the catalogue really have for the estate at this stage? They're now completely debt free. That's the most important thing for MJ's kids.

Had he still been alive this would have been a different matter, but at the end of the day the only reason they have the option to buy the thing is because MJ's finances got out of control and he leveraged his stake in the catalogue.

The main thing is that Sony didn't get MJ's own songs, which lets face it will only increase in value compared to the songs Sony actually got.

For me personally, I couldn't care a less if Sony now own the songs to rubbish artists like Lady Gaga and Taylor Swift.
 
Guys you made it plain and simple it over and it is done what more can be said in this thread?
 
pminton said:
Guys you made it plain and simple it over and it is done what more can be said in this thread?
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... Bit of an odd comment from staff? This is probably the biggest thing to happen in ages, of course people are going to want to discuss it at length- especially as people keep posting new articles, and the fact we have learned that Paul has the wheel's in motion to get the songs, and the fact that Paris has weighed in.

There is plenty to discuss!
 
ChrisC said:
I can't believe the media are still writing pathetic articles about Paul McCartney getting his 'publishing rights back' for the Beatles songs. Language like 'which Michael Jackson outbid him in', 'which Michael Jackson bought from underneath him'. It's really getting tiresome how they think they can just re-write this. Why is the media so obsessed with this issue? I mean, other than racism of course. What about other artists getting their publishing rights 'back'? What about the publishing rights Paul has to other artists songs?
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It's because it's way more interesting than the truth, which was Paul didnt want to spend, so Michael spent. According to the media Paul hated Michael and vice versa. Lies keep the world spinning really.
 
I'm just glad that they didn't sell off Mijac. I'm happy that they are out of debt. Apart of me didn't want to see them sell the Sony/ATV catalog, but in this situation they had no choice in the matter. I was hoping that they wouldn't have sold it, but it happened anyway. Michael was a wise investor and knew what he was doing in the first place. I'm sad that they sold it, but happy that they kept Mijac separate. I hope that they do something wise with the money for future posthumous albums and also put his music videos on Blu-ray if they can. I just hope that they will keep his legacy alive for future generations to come.
 
I said this on twitter and I will say it here too. I think the catalogue had become such a burden to Michael (he worried about his own safety because of it) that maybe it would have been a relief to him to let it go. I bet he would have been proud of the return he got on his investment!
I know he said he would never sell it but if he thought it was best for the welfare of his children he would
 
MIST said:
Whose truth?
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Bringing Brighter Days owns a secret book the world is not ready for and apparently it is the best book about Michael. We've been through this before, he's not going to tell us.

sadness1.gif
 
Bringing Brighter Days said:
The truth's truth

The truth is bigger than any one person,or following becuase we're not getting to root of what led to all this
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Bringing Brighter Days is referring to the fact that the original Paul McCartney actually died in the mid 60s. The fake Paul TOLD Michael to buy the Beatles songs (despite the fact that half of them were writte by an imposter Paul) because he knew that their value would increase. The fake Paul then, upon the death of real Michael, would attempt to regain the songs in question with the plan to purchase Michael Jacksons songs with the aid of a fake Michael Jackson that we have yet to be introduced to.

Oh and the twist is John Lennon never died and actually is pulling the strings of the fake Paul.

Bringing Brighter Days is always ahead of us all.
 
innuendo141 said:
Bringing Brighter Days is referring to the fact that the original Paul McCartney actually died in the mid 60s. The fake Paul TOLD Michael to buy the Beatles songs (despite the fact that half of them were writte by an imposter Paul) because he knew that their value would increase. The fake Paul then, upon the death of real Michael, would attempt to regain the songs in question with the plan to purchase Michael Jacksons songs with the aid of a fake Michael Jackson that we have yet to be introduced to.

Oh and the twist is John Lennon never died and actually is pulling the strings of the fake Paul.

Bringing Brighter Days is always ahead of us all.
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That was clever loll

Not exactly what Im referring to though
 
Omg so this person claims paul McCartney is dead?? :doh:
I swear people are getting crazier & crazier by the day
 
This is just sad. You'd think with Michael's music being so popular recently, the Estate would be making so much they'd never have to sell ATV back to Sony. As a fan, my only conclusion is somebody spent more than they had at the Estate, which led to the sale's necessity. Its like the old adage: "If your outgo exceeds your income, your upkeep will be your downfall."
 
I'm pretty sure this will be a minority opinion, but here goes. I do not CARE about this deal, except for one thing, and that is, are Michael's kids ok with it? I hope they were consulted. They have more than enough money for their futures. In fact, too much money can be crippling, in its own way. They are fine, and will make their own paths in life. The executors are businessmen, and do have an interest in profits. There is more to life than that. There was a financial and also an emotional component to this catalog, and I'm sure the children know that. They are FINE, financially, for the rest of their lives. I just hope they were asked what they thought was best and that their opinions were considered. Among the kids, Prince is now an adult, and I hope he was consulted. Nothing else matters to me.
 
Moviefan2k4;4142227 said:
This is just sad. You'd think with Michael's music being so popular recently, the Estate would be making so much they'd never have to sell ATV back to Sony. As a fan, my only conclusion is somebody spent more than they had at the Estate, which led to the sale's necessity. Its like the old adage: "If your outgo exceeds your income, your upkeep will be your downfall."
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To be honest that somebody who "spent more" was Michael Jackson… But he did not spend, he lost a lot because of smart-stupid people around him who took advantage of him. So, there is a debt.

As a fan, I guess, you know it already.
 
Autumn II said:
I'm pretty sure this will be a minority opinion, but here goes. I do not CARE about this deal, except for one thing, and that is, are Michael's kids ok with it? I hope they were consulted. They have more than enough money for their futures. In fact, too much money can be crippling, in its own way. They are fine, and will make their own paths in life. The executors are businessmen, and do have an interest in profits. There is more to life than that. There was a financial and also an emotional component to this catalog, and I'm sure the children know that. They are FINE, financially, for the rest of their lives. I just hope they were asked what they thought was best and that their opinions were considered. Among the kids, Prince is now an adult, and I hope he was consulted. Nothing else matters to me.
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I would think kids GAL Lodise informed/explained or/and asked their opinion of the sale. I think Prince would have been vocal in some way if he was against, not to mention that Jackson family (they know who they are) probably told them that it is for the best.
 
Bubs said:
I would think kids GAL Lodise informed/explained or/and asked their opinion of the sale. I think Prince would have been vocal in some way if he was against, not to mention that Jackson family (they know who they are) probably told them that it is for the best.
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Actually, everything seems more complicated to me.

Paris is against it and it seems some members of her family (next generation Jacksons) told her it is not good for her and that the conspiracy theory is real.
It looks like she believes them.

Idk how serious Paris is about it, though.
 
Allusio said:
Actually, everything seems more complicated to me.

Paris is against it and it seems some members of her family (next generation Jacksons) told her it is not good for her and that the conspiracy theory is real.
It looks like she believes them.

Idk how serious Paris is about it, though.
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I don't know Paris but I think she is kind of girl that her heart drives her decisions rather than head. She is close to Donte thus he might have filled her head with all sort of stuff. Can't really blame Donte for those ideas as he got them from his uncle/father.

She was also against selling NL, but I suppose the situation was explained to her.
 
Follow the money.

I knew this would happen SOONER rather than LATER however, That catalog was the route of ALL EVIL and one of the reasons Michael might not be here today I am afraid to say, However in all positive Why carry on a huge burden of that catalog that some are not experienced handling?

I am not a fan of the sell and $ony, AEG, and those on the outside pulling stings can rot in hell when all is said and done, But it will be nice to see some sanity restored to not only the kids but the family. I hope things works out and those new generation Jacksons can do something else with there lives that is more productive rather than be in the entertainment business and it give everyone a chance to MOVE ON, Next Chapter and find some closure and peace that everyone needs to be honest.

Remember, I am an "INSIDER" looking outside of the box for good and the better.
Just my thoughts and feelings.
-Rob
 
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