Sony closes deal on buying 50% stake of Mijac catalog

It's a bit odd to bring that up if Katherine is claiming here that the executors aren't even following that 2002 will...


Not very respectful....

What's the point of a will at all if it's not being followed anyway??
Why is it odd?? Some of the family had been shooting against Branca/Mcclain and that will ever since.

And no, it's not disrespectful. It's just fact that people at that age shouldn't concern themselves with things that will not much longer concern themselves. Also at that age I question how much of that is an old woman out of touch sticking to the old ways or people whispering in her ear.
 
Why is it odd?? Some of the family had been shooting against Branca/Mcclain and that will ever since.

And no, it's not disrespectful. It's just fact that people at that age shouldn't concern themselves with things that will not much longer concern themselves. Also at that age I question how much of that is an old woman out of touch sticking to the old ways or people whispering in her ear.
I explained why I thought it odd. They've moved on from contesting the '02 will.
Judging from the MJVibe article, neither the will nor Katherine’s or most children’s own stated interests are being followed. So what's there to defend?
I don’t care if anything's thought to be good business if its even not following the law.

From this will Michael counted on his mother on having good judgement at old age if she survived him, which might well include sticking to the 'old ways'.
Your concern about Katherine being taken advantage of is understood, and surely shared by many of us.
AND if she's completely at the executors' mercy, that aint right.
 
I explained why I thought it odd. They've moved on from contesting the '02 will.
Judging from the MJVibe article, neither the will nor Katherine’s or most children’s own stated interests are being followed. So what's there to defend?
I don’t care if anything's thought to be good business if its even not following the law.

From this will Michael counted on his mother on having good judgement at old age if she survived him, which might well include sticking to the 'old ways'.
Your concern about Katherine being taken advantage of is understood, and surely shared by many of us.
AND if she's completely at the executors' mercy, that aint right.
Yeah. And I explained why it isn't. First they were going after the will, saying it was fraudulent. After that didn't get them anywhere, they are opposing Branca/McClain whenever possible. That's why I say: sour grapes.

If it were against the law, the judge wouldn't have approved it.

From his will Michael counted on his mother and children to benefit. Not to make business descions, hence the executors. Sticking to the old ways is not smart, given the changing landscape in the music business. And they will profit from the 50 % of the catalog and the 600 million dollars Sony is paying.
 
They are still hung up on the fact that on the date in the will MJ was not in L.A. They've been contesting that since years, claiming the will is fraudulent, but nothing ever came of it. But really, if that will was fake or outdated, where is the real one?? It's been 15 years, no one ever came forward with an actual newer will. So why would it not be legitimate. I'd say, sour grapes. And respectfully, what a 92 year old woman wants is irrelevant. People still clinging to this notion that you should keep your catalog until all eternity, are from yesteryear with outdated views. Physical albums are not selling anymore, streaming makes little to no money to the individual artist. Better cash in now. Every major artist has sold their catalog in the past 10 years. Are they all idiots without counsel?? Unlike them, MJ's estate still holds on to 50 % of the catalog, while still making more money for the other 50 % than anyone else, so it's the best of both worlds. A huge cash injection while still controlling and holding on to the catalog. They've done great. And yes, eventually the children are the ones profiting. Katherine will be out of the picture soon.

This!

Bob Dylan sold his catalog and he’s certainly no idiot. Neither is Bruce Springsteen.
The fact is, the ATV catalog means nothing without MJ actually being here. When he was alive it gave him a certain cache within the industry and was a great tool for business negotiations. At the end of the day that catalog was bought as an investment and it’s now making MJ the richest artist in the industry, dead or alive! Simple as that!
What more do people want? For the estate to hold on to it forever and ever and simply have the name of owning it? And? MJ is gone and the music industry has changed a lot in the 15 years since his passing.
 
Yeah. And I explained why it isn't. First they were going after the will, saying it was fraudulent. After that didn't get them anywhere, they are opposing Branca/McClain whenever possible. That's why I say: sour grapes.

If it were against the law, the judge wouldn't have approved it.

From his will Michael counted on his mother and children to benefit. Not to make business descions, hence the executors. Sticking to the old ways is not smart, given the changing landscape in the music business. And they will profit from the 50 % of the catalog and the 600 million dollars Sony is paying.

Katherine said her son’s assets have remained in the estate and have not been transferred to the Trust as instructed in the Will.

In addition, Katherine said Paris and Blanket objected to the deal. She said Michael’s son Prince “deferred to the probate court.”

“Michael’s intention is crystal clear. Article III states in plain language that the “entire estate” shall be given to the Trust,” the motion read.
If the kids objected why didn’t they join Katherine’s lawsuit against the estate to stop the sale? She was the only one on it to my knowledge.
 
If the kids objected why didn’t they join Katherine’s lawsuit against the estate to stop the sale? She was the only one on it to my knowledge.
I think prince has been too stuibborn cuz he works with the estate and feels torn on who to choice
 
In what way are they using Michael in death that doesn't overlap with how the fans want it?
I'd appreciate an answer which isn't a question.

How does a fan wanting to hear music by someone they genuinely admire compare in any way to a business entity selling half his catalogue to a company he hated, trying to pass off fake songs, and all the other shady stuff they've done for a quick buck?

Are you actually serious?
 
I'd appreciate an answer which isn't a question.

How does a fan wanting to hear music by someone they genuinely admire compare in any way to a business entity selling half his catalogue to a company he hated, trying to pass off fake songs, and all the other shady stuff they've done for a quick buck?

Are you actually serious?
Selling half the catalogue is not the same as '"shady stuff" for starters. MJ hated Motolla, not Sony. And he continued working with them, not just the estate.

Meanwhile the fake songs fiasco is it's own debacle but that can easily be ignorance and not malice
 
you know i kinda think this is good, we know Sony are money hungry so them putting out a Michael Jackson album. i mean the mj estate aint doing much, btw im not completely up to date with this topic.
 
This!

Bob Dylan sold his catalog and he’s certainly no idiot. Neither is Bruce Springsteen.
The fact is, the ATV catalog means nothing without MJ actually being here. When he was alive it gave him a certain cache within the industry and was a great tool for business negotiations. At the end of the day that catalog was bought as an investment and it’s now making MJ the richest artist in the industry, dead or alive! Simple as that!
What more do people want? For the estate to hold on to it forever and ever and simply have the name of owning it? And? MJ is gone and the music industry has changed a lot in the 15 years since his passing.
Money just laying around is quite valueless. It doesn't grow as such an investment does, and makes people vulnerable to poor decisions.
I note that this current debacle isn't so much about the ATV catalogue. But what could all that money possibly be invested in that would be better than great control over TIMELESS music catalogues he bought; invaluable pieces of history?

Does the estate in itself need hundreds of millions in cash to be able to invest in curating Michael's legacy?
It seems obvious to me that this decision was made out of interests partial to Sony.

In great probability MJ cared about keeping all that within his trust, to curate and possibly grow that industry cache, and to contribute indefinitely to chosen charities. The latter of which apparently the estate has also failed utterly in.
 
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Selling half the catalogue is not the same as '"shady stuff" for starters. MJ hated Motolla, not Sony. And he continued working with them, not just the estate.

Meanwhile the fake songs fiasco is it's own debacle but that can easily be ignorance and not malice

MJ hated Sony for sure. He was looking forward to getting entirely contractually free from them 2009/2010, and wasn't much interested in making a new record deal with anyone after.
 
Selling half the catalogue is not the same as '"shady stuff" for starters. MJ hated Motolla, not Sony. And he continued working with them, not just the estate.

Meanwhile the fake songs fiasco is it's own debacle but that can easily be ignorance and not malice
I'm sorry, but no. You've drawn a false equivalence and now purporting they somehow accidentally hired Malachi to sing those songs, and gaslight us into not believing our ears.

You do a massive disservice to everyone on this board by suggesting they are anything close to this level of corruption, and I reject your insinuation completely.
 
"The estate didn't know about the cascio tracks being fake" posts are not something I expected to see in 2024 lol.
 
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I think prince has been too stuibborn cuz he works with the estate and feels torn on who to choice
I think it's clear that Prince works heavily with the estate and is probably Branca's go to man when he needs to speak with the family.

I like Prince a lot, he seems so enthusiastic about Michael and doing everything possible to maintain his legacy and what he stood for.

You just need to look at how engaging he is with the fans, that tells you everything about his character. He seems a great guy and someone who will eventually be the main man within the estate.

Bigi is very quiet and not in the spotlight and Paris is obviously doing her own thing.
 
I'm sorry, but no. You've drawn a false equivalence and now purporting they somehow accidentally hired Malachi to sing those songs, and gaslight us into not believing our ears.

You do a massive disservice to everyone on this board by suggesting they are anything close to this level of corruption, and I reject your insinuation completely.
So you don't even know the context of where those songs came from and whose insinuation it was to put the songs out, but regardless I don't care. Stay on freaking topic.

MJ hated Sony for sure. He was looking forward to getting entirely contractually free from them 2009/2010, and wasn't much interested in making a new record deal with anyone after.
So who was he interested in, someone worse like Universal?
 
It's absolutely what you implied in your post, so no, I didn't distort anything lol. Could have been ignorance doesn't apply to the situation at all.
So you expect old white suits who probably don't even listen to Michael Jackson to really know or care if it's actually him or not? Because that's what we're dealing with, and I am not surprised at all that we ended up in that scenario.

I also said that is it's own debacle all together and it's not particularly relevant to the REAL TOPIC at hand.
 
I was more trying to say that it's cringe to still see fans acting like Sony is evil in 2024
This can only be topped by people who think any decision which was not Michael’s was done by “Sony”. I have read comments to the effect of “this is Michael’s version of the song, before Sony made him speed it up”. Lol! Some people literally don’t know what they are talking about.
 
And you also don't know what you're talking about here.

I don't know if you are serious as the sums mentioned reach $400,000. If donations are smaller than $100,000 they probably won't mention them in press releases.

Could the 2022 donated sum of $240,000 mentioned at the bottom here possibly reach a fifth of the income that year?
 
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I don't know if you are serious as the sums mentioned reach $400,000. If donations are smaller than $100,000 they probably won't mention them in press releases.

Could the 2022 donated sum of $240,000 mentioned at the bottom here possibly reach a fifth of the income that year?
My point is they're donating, the amount is a different criteria.
 
Money just laying around is quite valueless. It doesn't grow as such an investment does, and makes people vulnerable to poor decisions.
I note that this current debacle isn't so much about the ATV catalogue. But what could all that money possibly be invested in that would be better than great control over TIMELESS music catalogues he bought; invaluable pieces of history?

Does the estate in itself need hundreds of millions in cash to be able to invest in curating Michael's legacy?
It seems obvious to me that this decision was made out of interests partial to Sony.

In great probability MJ cared about keeping all that within his trust, to curate and possibly grow that industry cache, and to contribute indefinitely to chosen charities. The latter of which apparently the estate has also failed utterly in.
On the one hand you say
Money just laying around is quite valueless.
And then on the other hand you ask?
Does the estate in itself need hundreds of millions in cash to be able to invest in curating Michael's legacy?
So it’s not valueless then? I would imagine the interest on hundreds of millions combined with the interest of the already accumulated wealth within the estate (more hundreds of millions) is quite a chunk of change. Essentially it’s money generating money.

In fact, as of January 2023 the estate had a reported net worth of $1.125 Billion! Money to the extent that they probably no longer require any more money. But to what ends should they have kept this catalog? Invaluable pieces of history, sure. But to do what with?

For anything to be done with said catalog a record label would be the obvious way to go. Perhaps there’s a conflict of interest in there concerning Branca’s involvement with Sony, but Sony (imho) is as good as any of the other major labels. Prince, George Michael, Bob Dylan have all had disputes with their labels in the past. Those labels are no better than Sony, some of them are possibly even worse. To hold a dispute that MJ had with the then* CEO of Sony, Tommy Mottola, some twenty three years ago against a label with different people in those positions today is utterly bizarre. Especially when MJ went on to work with them for projects such as T25. Disputes happen within business all the time. Ultimately Sony has been good for MJ and MJ extremely good for them.

In great probability MJ cared about keeping all that within his trust, to curate and possibly grow that industry cache, and to contribute indefinitely to chosen charities. The latter of which apparently the estate has also failed utterly in.
Perhaps you have a point here, but even then, MJ is dead and has been for a very long time. Perhaps MJ’s beneficiaries; Prince, Paris, Bigi don’t have the time nor the interest in curating and growing the catalog in such a way. And also the estate. When you weigh it up, why would they? Why wouldn’t they hand the catalog rights over to people who have such interests and reap the rewards without having to do the work, and still have a say?

The fact that the estate still has a say in what happens while simultaneously earning hundreds of millions of dollars is a no brainer. That’s just good business.

However, if they were any way decent at all, they could easily donate a large portion of their profits to MJ’s chosen charities. On that I’d agree.
 
Do you have any sources?
I can only go by what little information I find online. Around 2018 sum to charities allegedly similar as 2022 at ~240,000.

If anyone finds higher sums mentioned anywhere I'm open to reconsidering my opinion. It seems very dubious.

So it’s not valueless then? I would imagine the interest on hundreds of millions combined with the interest of the already accumulated wealth within the estate (more hundreds of millions) is quite a chunk of change. Essentially it’s money generating money.
Seems a lot of it is generated from the music publishing.

In fact, as of January 2023 the estate had a reported net worth of $1.125 Billion! Money to the extent that they probably no longer require any more money. But to what ends should they have kept this catalog? Invaluable pieces of history, sure. But to do what with?
The assets belong in the trust I believe. Why sell it for short term gain just because everyone else does? People here keep repeating it is wise just because everyone does it and "the market has changed". It seems no beneficiary fully agrees with this and its seems like a quick buck and like a publicity stunt to make the estate look good.

I think MJs legacy and trust is a forerunner and a multi-generational project to benefit much broader interests and not for short term thinking in any way. I deeply question that the executors are in an impartial position to even want to contemplate the future of music industry for generations to come, all the while actually respecting the fans who were so important to Michael.

All beneficiaries should have been given opportunity apart from the estate to get advise from the best in the industry who aren't partial to the case. Perhaps they were 🤷‍♂️

Many artists are fighting hard for their independence from labels, and control over their master recordings is integral to this. That is a long term view to me.

For anything to be done with said catalog a record label would be the obvious way to go.
MJ already had a publishing co and a record label (MJJ Productions, though it may be bound to ¢ony👅) and the fact that MJ was creatively tied to big name labels in life seems like a poor reason not to keep music business completely in house as it seems he wished towards the end, with choice deals directly with online distributors like with What More Can I Give project.

Why wouldn’t they hand the catalog rights over to people who have such interests and reap the rewards without having to do the work, and still have a say?
A lot of times in the industry, full creative and intellectual control is much more important than payouts.

The fact that the estate still has a say in what happens while simultaneously earning hundreds of millions of dollars is a no brainer. That’s just good business.
Oh. That's all fine and dandy then 🤔

However, if they were any way decent at all, they could easily donate a large portion of their profits to MJ’s chosen charities. On that I’d agree.
Yes. 20% of income. Through the trust, which seems to be neglected all in all.

I'll step back a bit from this discussion as i can't take all the short term thinking here, its a bit depressing and i have other things to focus on. Perhaps more insightful people can comment. As a fan who tries hard to keep a birds eye view and critical concerns and feelings i think there are many more who are very critical to whats going on, who may or may not have patience, energy and rashness to speak up. Or perhaps it doesn't matter or is unwise. Not in my view.
 
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I know MJ had his problems with SONY back in 2001, but he got Mottolla removed and then made a new contract with SONY and worked with SONY again. - I am also quite sure that had MJ not died his next new album would also be released by SONY.

So all the SONY hate seems outdated and wrong.

In 2024 many big acts sell their cataloug. The amount MJ Estate got is impressive.

I see this as a good deal.
 
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