Taylor Swift wants to become the new Thriller

[dam2040]

That video was awful. Was a poor Liberian Girl really, even a news outlet said so:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/n...ft-was-even-taylor-swift.html#~pd3SFntTwHQEYm

 

[Prince Of Pop]

Why does she need to go away? She’s not going away. She has a huge fan base. If you ain’t feeling’ it, don’t listen.
Most of the posters on here hate pop stars who show too much skin and whore it up, but here we have a huge pop star who does NOT over sexualize her image and doesn't take shots at other singers and she STILL gets shit for it. There’s no winning with you people.

She sings about the same thing, and does it badly. She's a studio artist (a bad one at that), and she's terrible live. She can't hold a note to save her life.

Case in point [video=youtube;KH--9E79YDA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH--9E79YDA[/video]

In the chorus, she can't hold the note..she has to take a breath. Anyone who can sing worth a crap can pull that off.

She's boring. No flare, no excitement. Sorry not hating. I'm 36 years old, I grew up listening to music of different genre's....I'm a son of a radio guy. I know what is good and what plain sucks. She appeals to young girls and teen boys who have crushes on her. That's about it. I haven't met 1 adult that likes her music.

 

[Xscape_]

Honestly... She should have let the video surface and the exposure it generations should have let it speak for itself. Now she's setting this piece up to fail. Not a good move by the PR in my opinion.

 

[reibish]

Re: Taylor Swifts wants to become the new Thriller

Eh this is the typical routine. Someone new releases an album and it's the best album since thriller, some new artist gets discovered and he is the successor to MJ, etc etc. it's getting old.

Yyyyup. No one has been able to do it yet, ever. Yawwwn.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

I wanted to stab my ears! That song is horrendous and the video like a very bad video game fight sequences. If I couldn't stand teenage target acts such as Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, Britney Spears, etc when I was a teenager myself, what could make you think I'd like Taylor now I am an adult. I'm almost 4 years older than her and she writes pretty shallow and average songs for a woman in her mid 20s.

What the hell is her PR thinking? They need to stop because they're promoting her ridiculously trying to equate her with the epitome of innovation and
pioneering in the music industry but failed miserably. Michael raised the bar and broke the bar.

 

[AtlasAir]

Yeah!

 

[HIStoric]

I know what is good and what plain sucks.

Honestly if she 'sucked' she wouldn't still be this big an entire decade on from when she started. I don't see why people (not you Pop, just people in general) call artists who have been famous for quite some time 'no talents' just because they don't enjoy their music. Clearly they have talent if they've managed to remain highly successful for this long, whether you personally like their music is another factor.

Personally I see her as a good artist but I've never seen her as any 'groundbreaker' when it comes to music (does she have to be though?). Hell I barely even paid attention to her music until 1989. I feel once she embraced pop music all out is when she really hit the mark as a musician and I can't wait to see what she does for next music (assuming she stays on the pop path).

I like the song but I was rather disappointed with the music video myself and thought they could've done so much more with the concept, I was hoping it'd be something 10-15 minutes long and reading comments by her fans, it seems I'm not alone. Many are surprised it's this short as the advertising set it up to be much longer, some kind of Thriller-length video. I'm not surprised it only went so long though, music video budgets aren't anywhere near as what they used to be when Michael was in his prime. That's why you see so many music videos nowadays where the artist is just singing in front of a green-screen (ugh). If Michael was still around and going to make a short film, I imagine he might get more than most artists these days due to the association with him and music videos, but after that first one I can see the budgets offered by the studios decreasing more (unless the first one was extremely successful and brought in heaps of money for the material). It's just the way music videos are these days unfortunately.

If she expanded it to be a story over multiple music videos it would certainly work a lot better but that probably won't happen. Sucks really, Thriller-association by some random source set aside, I was hoping from something better with the marketing this had.

 

[HIStory]

Honestly if she 'sucked' she wouldn't still be this big an entire decade on from when she started. I don't see why people (not you Pop, just people in general) call artists who have been famous for quite some time 'no talents' just because they don't enjoy their music. Clearly they have talent if they've managed to remain highly successful for this long, whether you personally like their music is another factor.

I personally do not think everyone who is successful is necessarily talented - especially today when it seems all about the image, rather than talent. That she cannot sing and dance is a pretty valid criticism for a start. Some say she compensates that with her songwriting but she is not Bob Dylan. But definitely her image appeals to a certain demographics and she's got great media suppoort. If I would call that talent I am not sure though.

 

[HIStoric]

I personally do not think everyone who is successful is necessarily talented - especially today when it seems all about the image, rather than talent. That she cannot sing and dance is a pretty valid criticism for a start. Some say she compensates that with her songwriting but she is not Bob Dylan. But definitely her image appeals to a certain demographics and she's got great media suppoort. If I would call that talent I am not sure though.

I can agree with you if we're talking about one-hit wonders but those still being incredibly successful a whole decade on? Mmm well image would certainly be a factor in her success as it is for every single other artist (to varying degrees). She certainly can sing and I feel she has a solid/good singing voice, it's just that the voice isn't exactly anything completely unique or overly remarkable like, say, Freddie Mercury's or Michaels was. She can't dance either, a valid criticism, but she makes up for that in her instrument playing, a quick look at Wikipedia reveals she can play the guitar, banjo, ukulele and piano. In addition, her songwriting in particular seems to have been praised by many veteran artists (see here). I also like that she has grown as an artist too as evidential by her transition from country -> pop over the last couple of years.

I can certainly see what you're saying and I do agree with you somewhat; Image does play a part in her success/continued fame but considering she has also has good singing voice, can play multiple instruments and has written/co-written many successful songs over the past 10 years (the songwriting in particular of which has been constantly praised by other successful artists), I think it's safe to she is talented.

 

[HIStory]

I can agree with you if we're talking about one-hit wonders but those still being incredibly successful a whole decade on? Mmm well image would certainly be a factor in her success as it is for every single other artist (to varying degrees). She certainly can sing and I feel she has a solid/good singing voice, it's just that the voice isn't exactly anything completely unique or overly remarkable like, say, Freddie Mercury's or Michaels was.

I don't think it's just that she doesn't have a unique singing voice. She actually often struggles with singing like Prince of Pop pointed out. I know songwriting is considered her strength, but I did not see anything special there either. But I will admit whether I like her songs or not is a matter of taste. However the criticism of her singing is not. Whether someone can hold notes or not, whether someone is pitchy etc. is a factual thing, not a matter of taste.

 

[HIStoric]

I don't think it's just that she doesn't have a unique singing voice. She actually often struggles with singing like Prince of Pop pointed out. I know songwriting is considered her strength, but I did not see anything special there either. But I will admit whether I like her songs or not is a matter of taste. However the criticism of her singing is not. Whether someone can hold notes or not, whether someone is pitchy etc. is a factual thing, not a matter of taste.

To be honest, after reading webpages such as this one, I actually agree moreso with you on her voice. I admit I like listening to her sing and the notes she can sing she does well (I mean, she holds a note for 15 good seconds here @ 3.25) but it's clear now to me her range is somewhat limited. I enjoy her songwriting on 1989, I can't speak about the rest of her discography but I have seen much praise for it over the years as mentioned earlier.

Personally, I do consider her talented and with the amount of praise she has received, it's going to be hard for me to see her as untalented. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree

 

[Doggone]

Apparently the video already has 18 million views in just 1 day. Shouldn't take much time to be #1 on the Billboard 100.

We can't say that Taylor has no talent. Because she has. My problem with her (and her PR team) is that she is setting her goals too high and putting Mike's reputation and talent down. She will never achieve what Michael achieved. Michael broke records that people couldn't think of. He made things that people would never come up with. By saying ''I can do that too'' with your amateur skills only brings down Michael's legacy, originality and level down.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Talent may be subjective but writing mostly about her exes leaving her is definitely not talent, Carly Simon's You're So Vane is a million times better and more iconic one about an ex and she didn't have to reveal publicly who he was. Taylor has received a very similar treatment to Elvis, she may have appeal and charisma even if she's not outstandingly talented but she's so pretty and white.

 

[Doggone]

Talent may be subjective but writing mostly about her exes leaving her is definitely not talent, Carly Simon's You're So Vane is a million times better and more iconic one about an ex and she didn't have to reveal publicly who he was. Taylor has received a very similar treatment to Elvis, she may have appeal and charisma even if she's not outstandingly talented but she's so pretty and white.

I have to agree with you about this. As far as I know she can only write about her love problems, exes and other love stories. I can't understand why the media hypes her up so much.

 

[SarahJ]

Talent may be subjective but writing mostly about her exes leaving her is definitely not talent, Carly Simon's You're So Vane is a million times better and more iconic one about an ex and she didn't have to reveal publicly who he was. Taylor has received a very similar treatment to Elvis, she may have appeal and charisma even if she's not outstandingly talented but she's so pretty and white.

Pretty much yeah.
The media will hype anyone they think they can make $$ off of. Its a PR game and probably where most of the stories are comming from.

 

[HIStoric]

I have to agree with you about this. As far as I know she can only write about her love problems, exes and other love stories. I can't understand why the media hypes her up so much.

Not true entirely. While it does appear that the vast majority of her songs are related to love (but not necessarily breakups), those aren't the only topics she's written about. Hell, Bad Blood isn't even about ex-lovers, it was written about a feud that happened between her and Katy Perry. Shake It Off is literally about her not caring about people hating on her.

As for why her songs are so popular, I don't think it's really rocket science. She writes songs that many people can identify with and the sound of her music has been evolving between every album. Add to the fact many of them are extremely catchy and boom. She's yet to do anything controversial in her personal life that has turned people off her so most of the public never really have any reason to dislike her apart from subjective taste in music.

Speaking of personal life though, I think what really boosted my opinion of her personally was the way she treats her fans. She goes well and beyond just about every other artist out there to the point where last year, she specially personalised and delivered christmas presents to her fans, with unique hand-written post cards and the like (see here). I think before 1989's release she also invited a number of fans over to her house where she hosted private listening parties for the then unreleased new album. I just think it's really cool seeing some of the effort she goes to for her fans, which is really far and beyond what she's required to do.

 

[HIStory]

Am I the only one who finds these so called "feuds" between pop stars (or rappers) that are so fashionable now, a bit childish? What has the industry become? Kindergarten? Back in the day we had socially conscious albums and songs and now we have songs about stupid, childish "feuds". Does this generation really has nothing to say?

 

[HIStoric]

Am I the only one who finds these so called "feuds" between pop stars (or rappers) that are so fashionable now, a bit childish? What has the industry become? Kindergarten. Does this generation really not have anything to sing about than artificially fuelled "feuds"?

Minus the odd one or two, I've never really focused on feuds. In regards to this specific one, technically Taylor Swift has refused to name exactly who it is, but all the rumours/evidence points to Katy Perry. Essentially here's Taylor Swift said about the feud/song:

"For years, I was never sure if we were friends or not," she says. "She would come up to me at awards shows and say something and walk away, and I would think, 'Are we friends, or did she just give me the harshest insult of my life?'" Then last year, the other star crossed a line. "She did something so horrible," Swift says. "I was like, 'Oh, we're just straight-up enemies.' And it wasn't even about a guy! It had to do with business. She basically tried to sabotage an entire arena tour. She tried to hire a bunch of people out from under me. And I'm surprisingly non-confrontational – you would not believe how much I hate conflict. So now I have to avoid her. It's awkward, and I don't like it."

I really don't get what you mean by that last line either because there are thousands of songs released today that have no relation to feuds...? (be the feud artificial or not)

 

[HIStory]

Minus the odd one or two, I've never really focused on feuds. In regards to this specific one, technically Taylor Swift has refused to name exactly who it is, but all the rumours/evidence points to Katy Perry. Essentially here's Taylor Swift said about the feud/song:

"For years, I was never sure if we were friends or not," she says. "She would come up to me at awards shows and say something and walk away, and I would think, 'Are we friends, or did she just give me the harshest insult of my life?'" Then last year, the other star crossed a line. "She did something so horrible," Swift says. "I was like, 'Oh, we're just straight-up enemies.' And it wasn't even about a guy! It had to do with business. She basically tried to sabotage an entire arena tour. She tried to hire a bunch of people out from under me. And I'm surprisingly non-confrontational – you would not believe how much I hate conflict. So now I have to avoid her. It's awkward, and I don't like it."

I really don't get what you mean by that last line either because there are thousands of songs released today that have no relation to feuds...? (be the feud artificial or not)

I didn't say all of the songs are about feuds. But when Doggone said she only writes about romance and exes, you said that's not true because she also writes about feuds. To me that is not particularly impressive either as I find "feud songs" childish. That was my point. Where are this generation's What's Going Ons, Imagines, Earth Songs, TDCAUs etc? That was my point, not that literally every song is about feuds.

 

[Doo Doo Head]

So basically, why should this video, even in her wildest dreams, be regarded as the "nesxt Thriller"? It had nothing of what made Thriller legendary (or any other MJ video for that matter). It didn't have amazing singing, groundbreaking dance moves or coreography, and it had no story. It didn't even have cool sets or makeup and costumes. It was just an overproduced video game trailer cooked up in a computer. :no:

 

[HIStoric]

Back in the day we had socially conscious albums and songs and now we have songs about stupid, childish "feuds". Does this generation really has nothing to say?

...really? There is a lot of music released today that is socially conscious. Just because you do not listen to this sort of music doesn't mean it's not out there.

Be Free - J Cole

Don't Shoot by The Game ft. Rick Ross, 2 Chainz, Diddy, Fabolous, Wale, DJ Khaled, Swizz Beatz, Yo Gotti, Curren$y, Problem, King Pharaoh & TGT.

Black Rage by Lauryn Hill

New Slaves by Kanye West

Same Love by Macklemore and Ryan Lewis (ft. Mary Lambert)

 

[HIStoric]

New National Anthem by T.I. feat Skylar Grey

Reagen by Killer Mike

We Gotta Pray by Alicia Keys

Gorgeous by Kanye West ft. Kid Cudi and Raekwon

Born This Way by Lady Gaga

A few more...

 

[HIStoric]

And last but not least, here's three more songs.

Institutionalised by Kendrick Lamar

Candles in the Sun by Miguel

Glory by John Legend and Common

All of these songs witnessed varying degrees of success, some topping the charts and even winning Grammys, but all being by modern artists in the last couple of years.

 

[HIStory]

Most of these are rap songs which do have some socially conscious themes sometimes due to the nature of the genre, but unfortunately most of those songs are musically unlistenable to me. Lauryn Hill is not really "this generation" in my eyes. She is of an older generation. I can't see any of these songs being remembered and still played in 10 years from now. Actually as I look their chart record up most of these songs do not seem to have been very successful even currently. So if your point is that if we dig deep enough we can find socially conscious songs from this generation, you are right, but I was talking about really big social anthems and successful songs that speak to many people, not just to just a limited audience. Born This Way was a successful song, but ironically it's a rip-off of old Madonna stuff.

So no, I still don't think this generation has What's Going Ons, We Are The Worlds, Imagines, Earth Songs, TDCAUs. Especially not from pop artists.

 

[HIStoric]

Most of these are rap songs which do have some socially conscious themes sometimes due to the nature of the genre, but unfortunately most of those songs are musically unlistenable to me.

The fact you don't like them is a-ok since music taste is subjective (no doubt some people said the same thing about the various songs you were thinking upon their release). Judging by the often tens/hundreds of thousands, even (hundreds of) millions of views on these videos, they are still clearly musically listenable to others.

Regardless of genre, my point was simply that yes, there is still socially conscious music coming out these days. Many of them fly to the top of the charts (as with Macklemore, Lady Gaga and Kanye West for example) while many others don't. Some are probably by smaller artists you've never heard of, but regardless their music is still socially conscious and reaching masses of people via the internet.

I can't see any of these songs being remembered and still played in 10 years from now.

People probably said the same about They Don't Care About Us upon release and look what has happened. Only time will tell.

 

[HIStory]

OK, I added to my post, so let me repeat:

I still don't think this generation has What's Going Ons, We Are The Worlds, Imagines, Earth Songs, TDCAUs etc. (Heck they had to re-make WATW and Do They Know It's Christmas...)

Most of the songs you posted were minor hits, if they were hits at all. The only bigger hits are Born This Way (#1) and Same Love ?(#11). (Ironically the most successful of these songs (BTW) is melodically a rip-off of an old Madonna song and thematically a rip-off of an old Valentino song that was covered by many, many artist since.)

You mentioned TDCAU's late success. Of course that could happen, but I don't think it's likely with any of these songs. They are just not that good. While I admit this is my subjective judgement of them, but you also have to remember that the reason why TDCAU was not successful upon release were very special circumstances which had to do with MJ's treatment by the US media. So I don't really think any of these songs situation can be compared to TDCAU's situation. TDCAU was good already in 1995, the US media simply sabotaged it.

 

[HIStoric]

OK, I added to my post, so let me repeat:

I still don't think this generation has What's Going Ons, We Are The Worlds, Imagines, Earth Songs, TDCAUs etc. (Heck they had to re-make WATW and Do They Know It's Christmas...)

Most of the songs you posted were minor hits, if they were hits at all. The only bigger hits are Born This Way (#1) and Same Love ?(#11). (Ironically the most successful of these songs (BTW) is melodically a rip-off of an old Madonna song and thematically a rip-off of an old Valentino song that was covered by many, many artist since.)

You mentioned TDCAU's late success. Of course that could happen, but I don't think it's likely with any of these songs. They are just not that good. While I admit this is my subjective judgement of them, but you also have to remember that the reason why TDCAU was not successful upon release were very special circumstances which had to do with MJ's treatment by the US media. So I don't really think any of these songs situation can be compared to TDCAU's situation. TDCAU was good already in 1995, the US media simply sabotaged it.

You originally asked for socially conscious songs by artists of today and nothing more (as evident in my first post of videos) so I replied with a series of them. If you want to focus on the super-duper big anthems then honestly... yes you could be right so far.

If I were to be completely honest, I would say at the moment Born This Way has the highest chance of being remembered as a big socially conscious song. It topped the charts worldwide, is still very well known and (I personally noticed) really help set in motion a trend of self-acceptance songs by artists over the next few years. In regards to the Madonna issue, the similarities are there but I feel it's somewhat blown out of proportion. Most elements of the song are different, overall flow of the melody is similar but Gaga is not the first person to make a song that sounds similar to previously released material.

There isn't too much related between Gaga or Valentino's songs be it lyric or musically wise either, minus the line 'I was born this way' which is a commonly accepted idea with homosexuality. Theme-wise, there's a connection but no-one ever claimed Born This Way to be the first major song about LGBT rights. I can see and accept Gaga having researched this topic and being influenced by the old disco song, but I think saying it's thematically a rip-off (which is quite a harsh word) is pushing it too far since Gaga has always been interested and fought for LGBT rights.

Thinking about your response, I do have to admit I do somewhat agree with you about this generation not having a truly big socially conscious song... but I still hold hope. This generation is far from over and who knows, hopefully a group of artists will step up to plate when need be in the next couple of years and create the next 'Imagine' or 'We Are The World'.

 

[LindavG]

I have to agree with you about this. As far as I know she can only write about her love problems, exes and other love stories. I can't understand why the media hypes her up so much.

At least she's authentic in that way. If she feels most comfortable writing about these topics, I don't see why she shouldn't. I'm not a Taylor Swift fan but I have to give her credit for writing and composing her own stuff. It's not as easy as it seems to create hit song after hit song (not just for herself but for other artists as well), that takes genuine talent whether people acknowledge it or not.

 

[HIStory]

You originally asked for socially conscious songs by artists of today and nothing more (as evident in my first post of videos) so I replied with a series of them. If you want to focus on the super-duper big anthems then honestly... yes you could be right so far.

Not even necessarily super-duper hits (because I don't think for example What's Going On was a super-duper hit), but something that stands out, that is memorable, that many people can relate to except for a limited fan base of a limited genre or artist, that will be remembered from 10, 20, 30 years now. It's not just the social theme alone, but theme+music+appeal to a more general public than an artist's hard core fan base. I just do not see that potential in any of the songs you listed, except for maybe Born This Way (yes, you are right about that, but... see below). I will admit this is a subjective judgement though and time may prove me wrong, but I really do not feel that quality in any of these songs, while I think the quality and value of songs such as What's Going On was clear upon release whether it was or was not a big hit.

As for Born This Way, rip-off allegations aside, I think the "problem" with the potential longevity of that message is maybe that gay rights are quickly being accepted these days, so in 10-20 years the whole gay right fight may get "outdated", simply because by then gay people are more or less accepted (in the Western world anyway, where artists like Lady Gaga are listened to). While songs about general injustice or war (eg. TDCAU, What's Going On), environmental issues (Mercy Mercy Me, Earth Song) will probably always be valid as long as there is human.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

The last song on Kendrick Lamars latest record is really interesting. It's called Mortal Man and he talks about black leaders and he says

How many leaders you said you needed then left ‘em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther JFK shooter you assassin,
Is it Jackie is it Jesse oh I know it’s Michael Jackson, oh

When shit hit the fan, is you still a fan?
That ni**a gave us Billie Jean, you say he touched those kids?
When shit hit the fan, is you still a fan?"

He gained many points in my book for saying this.