The Cascio Tracks Have Been REMOVED!!!

SmoothGangsta

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I understand the points you are making.
But from a s. c. hardcore fan I‘d personally would expect at least one thing:

• buying & supporting the latest project/album release

And dare I say it, EVEN if it is not to the exact standard of each individual fan out there.
I fully understand the uproar & boycott of an album with fake songs on it.
But let’s all take a look at the numbers of the noteworthy projects that followed:
Bad25 & Xscape
Bad25 did so small numbers, that they didn’t bother to even release something for Dangerous25 & History25.
And I’m 100% sure, that if Bad25 was successful, they’d had at least SOMETHING for the other 2 albums.
Then Xscape album: It sold about 2 million world wide.
Which was a good success, but could have been wayyy better. And not to forget: The MICHAEL album did around the same numbers.

Where are the 4 or 5 million s. c. hardcore fans?
And don’t tell me that many are to poor to go out and buy a cd or album.

I‘m more than eager to see the numbers THRILLER40 will do. Fans clamoring for unreleased songs/demos for 8 long years.
Let’s see them react IF we‘ll finally get something in November.
I don’t expect high sales numbers.
Many fans just running their mouth, but are not supporting, even when there is every reason to support.
I also get that the artwork/font is again reason to criticize, but it’s not called for to protest & create shit storms.
If we get a good amount of unreleased/ unheard songs/demos & this won’t be supported, don’t be surprised if they won‘t bother releasing new music again in the future!
B25 sold poorly in the Estate's eyes because they expected it to sell much more than it ever realistically would have, nothing to do with fans not buying it.

Xscape sold a lot for a deceased artist and was very popular. I find it strange that you're trying to make it seem not good enough so that you can further your point.

I see you say "many fans" are running their mouth, and I assume you're talking about people here. Yet most people here have supported the projects even though they criticise them. Just seems like pretty much a non-statement to me.
 
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staywild23

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Interesting points!
And dare I say it, EVEN if it is not to the exact standard of each individual fan out there.
I fully understand the uproar & boycott of an album with fake songs on it.
But let’s all take a look at the numbers of the noteworthy projects that followed:
Bad25 & Xscape
Bad25 did so small numbers, that they didn’t bother to even release something for Dangerous25 & History25.
I didn't realize Bad 25 didn't do well. That makes me really sad. Especially if it led to them justifying not doing Dangerous25 of HIStory25. Since Thriller and Bad are the most well known albums, they must have assumed if a Bad rerelease didn't do the numbers they wanted, others certainly wouldn't. What a bummer. But follow up to this, were fans happy with Thriller 25? If not, that could have led to not being as enthusiastic about Bad 25... 🤷‍♀️

Then Xscape album: It sold about 2 million world wide.vvWhich was a good success, but could have been wayyy better. And not to forget: The MICHAEL album did around the same numbers.
Where are the 4 or 5 million s. c. hardcore fans?
And don’t tell me that many are to poor to go out and buy a cd or album.

Do you think the controversy around the Michael album may have soured people to supporting any additional releases from the estate? Also, could streaming have anything to do with why the numbers are so low for these releases?

I‘m more than eager to see the numbers THRILLER40 will do. Fans clamoring for unreleased songs/demos for 8 long years.
Let’s see them react IF we‘ll finally get something in November.
I don’t expect high sales numbers.
Many fans just running their mouth, but are not supporting, even when there is every reason to support.
I also get that the artwork/font is again reason to criticize, but it’s not called for to protest & create shit storms.
If we get a good amount of unreleased/ unheard songs/demos & this won’t be supported, don’t be surprised if they won‘t bother releasing new music again in the future!
I am very excited for T40 and have already pre-ordered. Honestly though, I don't buy physical media for basically any artists anymore, even the ones I really like. I only bought these (and all the other MJ albums I've purchased physical copies of) because of how much I love MJ and want to support his legacy/not lose access to the music if society collapses around us haha.

I guess I'm just wondering how much of these numbers can/should be attributed more to the changes in how people consume music across the board, rather than lack of hardcore fans purchasing new releases. I don't really know enough about any of this to make an argument either way, I suppose.
 

Dorian

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B25 sold poorly in the Estate's eyes because they expected it to sell much more than it ever realistically would have, nothing to do with fans not buying it.

Xscape sold a lot for a deceased artist and was very popular. I find it strange that you're trying to make it seem bad so that you can further your point.

I see you say "many fans" are running their mouth, and I assume you're talking about people here. Yet most people here have supported the projects even though they criticise them. Just seems like pretty much a non-statement to me.

Let's agree to disagree. In the US BAD25 had under 50k copies sold in the first week. 50k is shit now and it was even worse 10 years ago. In the UK it sold around 10k? No matter what you say about the estate, the packing for that release was premium. I'm sure they didn't get their money back with what was sold. Streaming is even worse, artist barely gets anything, but at least there are no production fees.

Xscape didn't crack the "gold" certification AFAIK in the US and debuted with around 150k copies in the first week (as a double album) . That is with all the iHeartRadio + Usher promo, MV, Justin Timberlake feature (the only one that received airplay from the album), remixes, Xperia campaign and all the other promos.

Michael 2010 was better received than the previous releases. It had around 230k first week numbers in the US. But this was close to the hype from the TII documentary.

So yeah, I kinda see the frustration they get when it comes to music releases and why they don't bother with it anymore and why they keep promoting One/Broadway Show. Don't want to point any fingers, but there are certain people who keep the songs for themselves instead of giving them to the Estate, yet they ask a lot of money for people to come to listen to them. You can argue that it's because of their respect for Michael. I say that because the individual taxes pay more than the royalties if it's released. As long as "modernised" songs are released along the original demos, I don't care for any half assed excuse.
 

filmandmusic

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I also based my number of hardcore fans on the sales of Invincible. By 2001 MJ was not a commercial juggernaut anymore. Invincible sold about 5 million copies. This with little promotion so I figure 5 million hardcore fans is close to reality. Probably less as I presume a fair bunch of hardcore fans probably bought every edition of the album.

Jackson 5 hardcore fans are even more rare, I expect about 500 000 are left.
 

AChanceToDance

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the album isn't that bad now those tracks have been removed.
It's what I always said, the album is too overhated. The album's production sound a lot more like something Michael would've done compared to Xscape which a lot of the time sound like generic trap/electronic music and it at least gave us a taste of Michael's final music (Best Of Joy). The only problems I have with the album now are Another Day and I Like The Way You Love Me, their demos are a lot better than the remixes.
 

filmandmusic

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It‘s hardly an album, more like an EP now. Those lost streams will be won again in no time with T40
Since almost all of his albums adopt a different sound It would not be hard to imagine MJ now experimenting with a more electronic sound @AChanceToDance
 

AChanceToDance

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It‘s hardly an album, more like an EP now. Those lost streams will be won again in no time with T40
Since almost all of his albums adopt a different sound It would not be hard to imagine MJ now experimenting with a more electronic sound @AChanceToDance
I just can't imagine an over 60 year old MJ singing over trap music lmao, at least not the way they did it on the Xscape album.
 

KOPV

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I'm glad the songs are gone, that said - I think this moment within the fan community is too heavily focused on anger about the email response over celebrating the fact a fight that went on over a decade has some level of resolution. A multimillion-dollar company will always have political responses to legally protect themselves and their financial interest.
 

issabreakofdawn

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The album's production sound a lot more like something Michael would've done compared to Xscape which a lot of the time sound like generic trap/electronic music and it at least gave us a taste of Michael's final music (Best Of Joy).
Who knows, I would agree but then I go to "Heartbreaker" (01) on Invincible, which was basically a hybrid pop dubstep and is very electronic/computer sounds, in 2001 (I know dubstep was already taking off in 2001)

Then go to "Shout" (01) and "Tabloid Junkie" (95) with fast pace rapping + Jacksonease language, and you basically got mumble rap (lmao just playing) But you fr cant understand 95% what that man is saying on those songs.

MJ was always trying new things in his songs, so i'm not sold that had MJ lived. That he wouldnt have dip his feet into that sound by 2014. Some of the remade songs on Xscape are really well made and few I enjoy more than the originals, but thats just my opinion.
 

OnirMJ

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I still can't believe that some MJ fans believe those Cascio tracks are sung by MJ. Whatever the reasons, it's already a small victory the Estate finally removed them. I hope this will be a permanent removal.
BUMPER, so glad to see you here! This small victory is just the beginning. Now we wait for Vera's trial and then removal of the physical CD's from the stores and public apology to the fans. Without those 2 things there will never be peace.
 

Hess

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I deleted the 10-songs album in my iTunes and bought the new 7 song album.

I really enjoy the album. - Now it's actually 7 really good songs.
 

Hess

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I don't care what the Estate wrote in their response - the fact that the 3 songs are now finally removed is amazing.

I did not believe it would ever happen - so this is great. - Now let's forget all the Cascio songs and move on.
 

zinniabooklover

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Now we wait for Vera's trial and then removal of the physical CD's from the stores and public apology to the fans. Without those 2 things there will never be peace.
Agree with all of this. I'm especially keen to see the removal of the CD's. They are still there, online and instore. I don't care how small CD sales might be. That's not the issue. As long as they are out there, this isn't finished, imo. The removal of the songs from the digital platforms is awesome and I'm stoked about that. I really am. But I want this properly sorted. All the way down the line.
 

BUMPER SNIPPET

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BUMPER, so glad to see you here! This small victory is just the beginning. Now we wait for Vera's trial and then removal of the physical CD's from the stores and public apology to the fans. Without those 2 things there will never be peace.
Likewise buddy, glad to see you still around. :)
 

SmoothGangsta

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Idk how the US law system works in detail. So, just a thought.

Considering court hearing in May did not well for Sony, could the removal of the fake songs being a preventive move by Sony? Does this have any impact on the still ongoing case?
Yeah, I've been wondering what this means for the case. I find it strange that they are removing them whilst the case is still ongoing. Surely that would just make it worse for them legally?
 
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Hiker

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Yeah, I've been wondering what this means for the case. I find it strange that they are removing them whilst the case is still ongoing. Surely that would just make it worse for them legally?
That's why the statement that removal has nothing to do with them being fake. They just want fans to focus on all the good things ahead. The statement it vague enough to have no legal impact.
 

Piek

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In iTunes in The Netherlands, the Cascio tracks are deleted from the Michael album. But they are still on The Ultimate Fan Extras Collection. They probably forgot about that collection.
 
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