The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

From what I've read, Prince has way more unreleased songs and he was much more organized with stuff in the vault. Not trying to making excuses for the MJ Estate though.
Recent leaks indicate that there must be more material available than the Estate would have us believe. Demos with few vocals are also interesting for fans. One could publish a lot more with a little commitment. For example via an independent label.
 
From what I've read, Prince has way more unreleased songs and he was much more organized with stuff in the vault. Not trying to making excuses for the MJ Estate though.
Indeed. Obviously Prince was far more prolific as an artist and Michael was more perfectionist…

Prince could record & mix a song or two in a single day.
Whereas Michael spent far longer getting what he heard in his head. And only a fraction of those ideas reach the final stages - vocals, overdubs etc.

After that Hold My Hand leak in particular, Michael was very reluctant to put his voice on any new songs unless they were destined for release.

With Michael, any new vocally-finished songs are becoming few and far between. Even the estate made it clear that the Bryan Loren they had no plans to release any of his songs with Michael, about a handful of which have completed vocals.
 
Isn't there a "Future Records" or whatever CD out there somewhere with this on it? 6 ish minutes?
Yup. "Mix 6 #24". Apparently it's only 1:37 long. https://web.archive.org/web/20090212140743/http://www.mjcollectorland.com/rileyacetate.htm
rileybloodonthedancefloor.jpg
 
There are several versions of "Mix 6 #24" - all have a different track length.

That one you've posted contains the "all along, you're in the ego zone" line.

Michael Jackson "Blood On The Dance Floor 4 Tracks
1) Jam Mix 10 - 5:52
2) In The Closet Mix 4 - 7:06
3) Remember The Time Mix 7 - 4:54
4) Blood On The Dance Floor Mix 6 #24 - 6:14


Michael Jackson Someone Put Your Hand Out 6 Tracks 2cds #1
1) Jam - 8:41
2) In The Closet - 8:35
3) Someone Put your hand Out -5:39
4) Remember The Time - 5:33
5) Blood On The Dance Floor Mix 6 #24 -7:40
6) Blank Tack - 1:08
 
Speaking of CD-R 'acetates', do we know whether these two Dangerous (Bonus Cuts) discs are fake?

Both are dated 28/11/00 and feature 8 tracks. The original 1/12/00 disc features 10 tracks and does not feature "For All Time" and "What About Us". I've heard that at least one of them is fake and that these two tracks are in fact sourced from Thriller 25 and the Dangerous DAT leak respectively.
 
Just finished Brice Najar’s new book!

This one is very firmly rooted in the Thriller era, though there are plenty of detours into Victory and Bad. The creative design is beautiful, and there are some lovely photos included. As usual, this is essentially a book of uncut, unfiltered interviews with collaborators, and Brice gives them room to speak candidly—there are times when a response to a single question will take up two full pages. If you’re a purist, this is the book for you. There isn’t much in the way of new information per se, but getting the unfiltered commentary from first-hand sources is awesome.

Some of the interesting tidbits that I didn’t know:
  • The descending glassy synth in the intro of “The Girl is Mine” was a demo of some sort programmed by Amin Bhatia. Steve Porcaro was unable to recreate it and Quincy wound up directly sampling Amin’s track without giving him credit.
  • MJ and David Williams supposedly had a brief falling out, and Dean Parks was hired to re-record the guitar lines on “Billie Jean.” The final mix only used David’s recordings, which Dean encouraged, but CBS had already begun pressing album packages with the incorrect credits. Dean placed an ad in Billboard acknowledging the error, but to this day, some pressings of Thriller (including Thriller 40) list him as the sole guitarist.
  • When John Bettis submitted the new lyrics to “Human Nature,” he had retitled it “I Like Living This Way,” but Quincy restored the original title.
  • During the Victory tour, David Williams briefly flew home to visit his family but overslept and missed his return flight. The travel agent arranged for him to board the next flight to a neighboring city, but he hadn’t yet touched down by showtime. MJ refused to go on without David and spent $10,000 to have a sheriff’s helicopter pick him up at the tarmac and drop him off at the venue. The show started about an hour and a half late.
  • John Barnes started working on musical ideas for Captain EO once Centipede by Rebbie was finished, i.e., in/around late 1984. He and Matt Forger sketched out about six demos, of which MJ liked two (including what ultimately became “We Are Here to Change the World”).
  • Since Hayvenhurst was undergoing renovations at the time, the first month or so of work on the Bad demos took place at Westlake. The first song, according to Matt Forger, was “Dirty Diana.”
  • MJ, Matt Forger, and John Barnes worked on Bad for 13 months before the proper recording sessions with Quincy began. (If these sessions started in August 1986 as reported by Rolling Stone, the demo sessions would have begun in/around July 1985.)
  • Steve Porcaro submitted a couple rough demos for Bad, including one song called “Game of Passion” cowritten with David Paich and Glen Ballard.
  • Quincy liked “Chicago 1945” and, according to David Williams, worked on it briefly during the Bad sessions (though Steve Porcaro hasn’t been able to find anyone to corroborate that claim).
  • MJ and his team worked on a total of 67 songs for HIStory, including pre-existing demos (e.g., “Little Susie,” “Earth Song”).
  • While recording the choir on “Speechless,” MJ was dissatisfied with the sound but couldn’t quite pinpoint why. When MJ asked Tom Bahler to join them against Bruce Swedien’s initial orders, he went, “Yeah, that’s it, man! That’s it!”
  • MJ and Tom Bahler spent five-and-a-half hours straight recording every part of “I Have This Dream” together without a break.
 
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Just finished Brice Najar’s new book!

This one is very firmly rooted in the Thriller era, though there are plenty of detours into Victory and Bad. The creative design is beautiful, and there are some lovely photos included. As usual, this is essentially a book of uncut, unfiltered interviews with collaborators, and Brice gives them room to speak candidly—there are times when a response will take up two full pages. If you’re a purist, this is the book for you. There isn’t much in the way of new information per se, but getting the unfiltered commentary from first-hand sources is awesome.

Some of the interesting tidbits that I didn’t know:
  • The descending glassy synth in the intro of “The Girl is Mine” was a demo of some sort programmed by Amin Bhatia. Steve Porcaro was unable to recreate it and Quincy wound up directly sampling Amin’s track without giving him credit.
  • MJ and David Williams supposedly had a brief falling out, and Dean Parks was hired to re-record the guitar lines on “Billie Jean.” The final mix only used David’s recordings, which Dean encouraged, but CBS had already begun pressing album packages with the incorrect credits. Dean placed an ad in Billboard acknowledging the error, but to this day, some pressings of Thriller (including Thriller 40) list him as the sole guitarist.
  • When John Bettis submitted the new lyrics to “Human Nature,” he had retitled it “I Like Living This Way,” but Quincy restored the original title.
  • During the Victory tour, David Williams briefly flew home to visit his family but overslept and missed his return flight. The travel agent arranged for him to board the next flight to a neighboring city, but he hadn’t yet touched down by showtime. MJ refused to go on without David and spent $10,000 to have a sheriff’s helicopter pick him up at the tarmac and drop him off at the venue. The show started about an hour and a half late.
  • John Barnes started working on musical ideas for Captain EO once Centipede by Rebbie was finished, i.e., in/around late 1984. He and Matt Forger sketched out about six demos, of which MJ liked two (including what ultimately became “We Are Here to Change the World”).
  • Since Hayvenhurst was undergoing renovations at the time, the first month or so of work on the Bad demos took place at Westlake. The first song, according to Matt Forger, was “Dirty Diana.”
  • MJ, Matt Forger, and John Barnes worked on Bad for 13 months before the proper recording sessions with Quincy began. (If these sessions started in August 1986 as reported by Rolling Stone, the demo sessions would have begun in/around July 1985.)
  • Steve Porcaro submitted a couple rough demos for Bad, including one song called “Game of Passion” cowritten with David Paich and Glen Ballard.
  • Quincy liked “Chicago 1945” and, according to David Williams, worked on it briefly during the Bad sessions (though Steve Porcaro hasn’t been able to find anyone to corroborate that claim).
  • MJ and his team worked on a total of 67 songs for HIStory, including pre-existing demos (e.g., “Little Susie,” “Earth Song”).
  • While recording the choir on “Speechless,” MJ was dissatisfied with the sound but couldn’t quite pinpoint why. When MJ asked Tom Bahler to join them against Bruce Swedien’s initial orders, he went, “Yeah, that’s it, man! That’s it!”
  • MJ and Tom Bahler spent five-and-a-half hours straight recording every part of “I Have This Dream” together without a break.
There is this “emergency” note where Michael sought out Zapp guitarist Roger Troutman dated 5 March 1985. Roger played on “Tomboy”, so the sessions started at least in early 1985.
 
Just finished Brice Najar’s new book!

This one is very firmly rooted in the Thriller era, though there are plenty of detours into Victory and Bad. The creative design is beautiful, and there are some lovely photos included. As usual, this is essentially a book of uncut, unfiltered interviews with collaborators, and Brice gives them room to speak candidly—there are times when a response will take up two full pages. If you’re a purist, this is the book for you. There isn’t much in the way of new information per se, but getting the unfiltered commentary from first-hand sources is awesome.

Some of the interesting tidbits that I didn’t know:
  • The descending glassy synth in the intro of “The Girl is Mine” was a demo of some sort programmed by Amin Bhatia. Steve Porcaro was unable to recreate it and Quincy wound up directly sampling Amin’s track without giving him credit.
  • MJ and David Williams supposedly had a brief falling out, and Dean Parks was hired to re-record the guitar lines on “Billie Jean.” The final mix only used David’s recordings, which Dean encouraged, but CBS had already begun pressing album packages with the incorrect credits. Dean placed an ad in Billboard acknowledging the error, but to this day, some pressings of Thriller (including Thriller 40) list him as the sole guitarist.
  • When John Bettis submitted the new lyrics to “Human Nature,” he had retitled it “I Like Living This Way,” but Quincy restored the original title.
  • During the Victory tour, David Williams briefly flew home to visit his family but overslept and missed his return flight. The travel agent arranged for him to board the next flight to a neighboring city, but he hadn’t yet touched down by showtime. MJ refused to go on without David and spent $10,000 to have a sheriff’s helicopter pick him up at the tarmac and drop him off at the venue. The show started about an hour and a half late.
  • John Barnes started working on musical ideas for Captain EO once Centipede by Rebbie was finished, i.e., in/around late 1984. He and Matt Forger sketched out about six demos, of which MJ liked two (including what ultimately became “We Are Here to Change the World”).
  • Since Hayvenhurst was undergoing renovations at the time, the first month or so of work on the Bad demos took place at Westlake. The first song, according to Matt Forger, was “Dirty Diana.”
  • MJ, Matt Forger, and John Barnes worked on Bad for 13 months before the proper recording sessions with Quincy began. (If these sessions started in August 1986 as reported by Rolling Stone, the demo sessions would have begun in/around July 1985.)
  • Steve Porcaro submitted a couple rough demos for Bad, including one song called “Game of Passion” cowritten with David Paich and Glen Ballard.
  • Quincy liked “Chicago 1945” and, according to David Williams, worked on it briefly during the Bad sessions (though Steve Porcaro hasn’t been able to find anyone to corroborate that claim).
  • MJ and his team worked on a total of 67 songs for HIStory, including pre-existing demos (e.g., “Little Susie,” “Earth Song”).
  • While recording the choir on “Speechless,” MJ was dissatisfied with the sound but couldn’t quite pinpoint why. When MJ asked Tom Bahler to join them against Bruce Swedien’s initial orders, he went, “Yeah, that’s it, man! That’s it!”
  • MJ and Tom Bahler spent five-and-a-half hours straight recording every part of “I Have This Dream” together without a break.
It looks like there's a full version of Michael's "I Have This Dream." I'm guessing it'll be available during Invincible or right after.
 
Just finished Brice Najar’s new book!

This one is very firmly rooted in the Thriller era, though there are plenty of detours into Victory and Bad. The creative design is beautiful, and there are some lovely photos included. As usual, this is essentially a book of uncut, unfiltered interviews with collaborators, and Brice gives them room to speak candidly—there are times when a response will take up two full pages. If you’re a purist, this is the book for you. There isn’t much in the way of new information per se, but getting the unfiltered commentary from first-hand sources is awesome.

Some of the interesting tidbits that I didn’t know:
  • The descending glassy synth in the intro of “The Girl is Mine” was a demo of some sort programmed by Amin Bhatia. Steve Porcaro was unable to recreate it and Quincy wound up directly sampling Amin’s track without giving him credit.
  • MJ and David Williams supposedly had a brief falling out, and Dean Parks was hired to re-record the guitar lines on “Billie Jean.” The final mix only used David’s recordings, which Dean encouraged, but CBS had already begun pressing album packages with the incorrect credits. Dean placed an ad in Billboard acknowledging the error, but to this day, some pressings of Thriller (including Thriller 40) list him as the sole guitarist.
  • When John Bettis submitted the new lyrics to “Human Nature,” he had retitled it “I Like Living This Way,” but Quincy restored the original title.
  • During the Victory tour, David Williams briefly flew home to visit his family but overslept and missed his return flight. The travel agent arranged for him to board the next flight to a neighboring city, but he hadn’t yet touched down by showtime. MJ refused to go on without David and spent $10,000 to have a sheriff’s helicopter pick him up at the tarmac and drop him off at the venue. The show started about an hour and a half late.
  • John Barnes started working on musical ideas for Captain EO once Centipede by Rebbie was finished, i.e., in/around late 1984. He and Matt Forger sketched out about six demos, of which MJ liked two (including what ultimately became “We Are Here to Change the World”).
  • Since Hayvenhurst was undergoing renovations at the time, the first month or so of work on the Bad demos took place at Westlake. The first song, according to Matt Forger, was “Dirty Diana.”
  • MJ, Matt Forger, and John Barnes worked on Bad for 13 months before the proper recording sessions with Quincy began. (If these sessions started in August 1986 as reported by Rolling Stone, the demo sessions would have begun in/around July 1985.)
  • Steve Porcaro submitted a couple rough demos for Bad, including one song called “Game of Passion” cowritten with David Paich and Glen Ballard.
  • Quincy liked “Chicago 1945” and, according to David Williams, worked on it briefly during the Bad sessions (though Steve Porcaro hasn’t been able to find anyone to corroborate that claim).
  • MJ and his team worked on a total of 67 songs for HIStory, including pre-existing demos (e.g., “Little Susie,” “Earth Song”).
  • While recording the choir on “Speechless,” MJ was dissatisfied with the sound but couldn’t quite pinpoint why. When MJ asked Tom Bahler to join them against Bruce Swedien’s initial orders, he went, “Yeah, that’s it, man! That’s it!”
  • MJ and Tom Bahler spent five-and-a-half hours straight recording every part of “I Have This Dream” together without a break.
My two cents on (nearly) every point:

  • Never took Quincy to be skittish about credit.
  • So that's why the multitrack had two guitar tracks! I just thought that was an unused attempt at stereo panning.
  • What a bland name, glad Quincy reverted it back to its original title.
  • That's genuinely kind of Michael, looking out for his fellow man. Then again, "kind" was essentially his middle name.
  • Huh, and here I assumed the seed for APOM started in early 1984, not later on.
  • Damn, so Red Wing Studios wasn't the only non-Hayvenhurst studio to be rented out in the pre-production sessions.
  • Both the August 1986 (tracksheets prove it) and July 1985 (tape box for "Loving You" in the Making of Xscape video shows a date of 7-28-85) dates are correct, lining up perfectly with what I listed in my session calendar.
  • Guess Rod Temperton, Terry Britten, and Glen Ballard weren't the only Thriller-era writers to return for the main Bad sessions.
  • For some reason, I actually can see Chicago 1945 on Bad, either at the end of Side A or the start of Side B.
  • That's...actually far more than I imagined. Really like to see the vault one day to see what half those songs were.
Now all we need is info from Bea Swedien and Dan Beck's own books. I think I'll be the one to tackle Beck's book when it comes out this October.
 
There is this “emergency” note where Michael sought out Zapp guitarist Roger Troutman dated 5 March 1985. Roger played on “Tomboy”, so the sessions started at least in early 1985.
I always assumed it was one of the first songs to kick off the pre-production sessions, putting its date of recording somewhere between July and September.
 
There is this “emergency” note where Michael sought out Zapp guitarist Roger Troutman dated 5 March 1985. Roger played on “Tomboy”, so the sessions started at least in early 1985.
Not necessarily! MJ could’ve just wanted his name for future reference. Plus, according to Bottrell’s session calendars, “Tomboy” took shape throughout late 1985 and Roger recorded his parts on November 28, 1985.
 
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If Dirty Diana was the first song worked on for BAD, I would assume Liberian Girl was right after it.

Mentioned in the interview in late '83 at Hayvenhurst (along with Buffalo Bill).

Makes me wonder at the time of that interview in late '83, if MJ just put those ideas on tape and nothing was worked on yet in the studio.
 
If Dirty Diana was the first song worked on for BAD, I would assume Liberian Girl was right after it.

Mentioned in the interview in late '83 at Hayvenhurst (along with Buffalo Bill).

Makes me wonder at the time of that interview in late '83, if MJ just put those ideas on tape and nothing was worked on yet in the studio.
Don't know which songs specifically, Michael started working on solo songs around spring 1983.

I wish Brice had interview Brian Malouf, too.
 
There is this “emergency” note where Michael sought out Zapp guitarist Roger Troutman dated 5 March 1985. Roger played on “Tomboy”, so the sessions started at least in early 1985.
Session calendar shows Tomboy November of 85 and Al Capone December February 86. We're not sure how long it took to contact Roger

He [Roger] worked with us on several early Bad tracks. It wasn't kept but it felt and sounded great. Tomboy and Al Capone. - John Barnes

Roger was not on smooth criminal or the way you make me feel. As far as tomboy, I didn't make it and was not fully completed. Al Capone had Roger as a guest musician. The track was mostly done when he came in. - John Barnes

509431905-30998621689737074-6680376860226427599-n.jpg
 
Session calendar shows Tomboy November of 85 and Al Capone December February 86. We're not sure how long it took to contact Roger
I don't recall Bill's mentioned Roger's presence on any of his sessions. So I guess, sessions with Roger, Michael & John took place between March and October '85.
 
Rev Run seems to have had an issue with Michael during 86. Kind of glad Crack Kills didn't work out.

Michael wants us to make a record with him, and we don't really want to make a record with Michael. He wants us on his next album. He wants to make a record about crack. We have good rhymes about it because we still see it, we live in the neighborhood still. I've made a lot of money, but I still live in Hollis. It's so funny. I don't have a big mansion and beautiful clothes. I see the crack on the corner. I need to get rid of this thing. Michael probably would like me to lay some of this on his album. Michael writes lyrics, but I write what I think. I see and feel all day.

Michael wants us to record with him, but he doesn't fit in with our style - and he doesn't feel the way we do.
If he turned up wearing that surgical mask, I'd rip it off him. I don't have any germs.



468280981-10164065845577786-83120475665114625-n.jpg
 
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