The Investigation Surrounding Conrad Murray Thread (ALL POSTS/ARTICLES on Charges, etc. GO HERE!)

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

chernoff:

Michael Jackson is a very frail man. He was very thin, very small. And the doctor compressed his chest with one hand, braced his back with the other hand. He checked to make sure there was blood flow. There was. That he was getting blood. In fact, at the time that he was -- that emergency personnel came, he still had a weak pulse.

Kaye from CNN:

I spoke with Captain Steve Ruda from the L.A. Fire Department. And he told me that Jackson was not breathing and had no pulse when paramedics arrived at the scene of his rented mansion.

so he is already saying mj had a pulse , infact I read an article where murray's other attorney insisted mj had pulse when they transported him to the hospital .

 

[Moddie777]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Michael Jackson was a worldwide known humanitarian and entertainer. His death should be referred to as "The Assination of Michael Jackson"!! I'd like to see someone write an article with this true title.

In no way am I foolish enough to think that MJ was killed accidentally. Someone or some organization or some group wanted him dead....since at least 1993 or before. Why was Tom Sneddon not punished for discrimination when he put up that website on MJ regarding children? That website made MJ a walking Target for accusations, yet Sneddon didn't put up a special website for anyone else....just MJ. There have been too many injustices to one man to ever convince me that there were those out to get MJ, tear his life apart, humiliate him, destroy him emotionaly and financially and then kill him.

Any Criminal Lawyers out there?? Please get justice for MJ. Raise a ruckus. The squeaky wheel gets oiled.

MJs Assasinators should be held accountable and punished accordingly....all of them.

Many people, celebrities and fans alike, would agree.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I think the admins and mods said that conspiracy theory is discussed in the I.U and the people "in denial" who post facts can post here . so please don't ruin this thread

 

[Moddie777]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Michael Jackson, himself, said there were conspirators working to destroy him.
Do you remember the 60 minutes interview?
Click on the link below and watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQwY4ll1Kfc

Hi Cherubim, I can't view that video but I remember MJ going on record talking about conspirators in 2005 on the radio with Rev. Jesse Jackson during or aorund the time of Easter, he referenced his Catalogue. Did he go on record twice?

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Hi Cherubim, I can't view that video but I remember MJ going on record talking about conspirators in 2005 on the radio with Rev. Jesse Jackson during or aorund the time of Easter, he referenced his Catalogue. Did he go on record twice?

Let me help you. I watched the whole video. MJ was talking about his album when referring to a conspiracy. He was not speaking of life or death; just his Invincible album and why it did not do as well as he planned.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Hi Cherubim, I can't view that video but I remember MJ going on record talking about conspirators in 2005 on the radio with Rev. Jesse Jackson during or aorund the time of Easter, he referenced his Catalogue. Did he go on record twice?

I saw both and it as all maintaining to Invincible just as Beachlover said. In the Jessa Jackson's interview he was talking about catalogue and most likely Sneddon overzealous attempt to put him in jail. Not to mention the media conspiracy, which Jones' book talks about.

Murder was not on the topic, nor did Michael fear for his life from people in power. He was more afraid of some crazy coming by and gunning him down during the trail, which is why he was wearing a bulletproof vest.

 

[Moddie777]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

let's just put it this way. Murray is under suspicion. if the person that died, were anybody that the media liked..and i mean, the media, alone, liked(weather or not others love the deceased), Murray would not be practicing right now.

Unfortunately but sadly, I truly believe you are Right!

Damn!

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Unfortunately but sadly, I truly believe you are Right!

Damn!

People liked Anna Nicole Smith and loved Elvis and their doctors didn't lose their licenses. I have people in my area who got charge with malpractice and they still practice.

It has been said before, but it is the medical board not the LAPD that has the right to revoke licenses. So, this is hardly "they don't like Michael" rule.

 

[Moddie777]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Shame on LAPD if they are leaking information to a tabloid. I could imagine the police going with manslaughter, the second degree murder as I understand it has to be able to convince a jury that there was malice towards the victim, and that might be difficult, they may worry that if they go with that he could get off, with manslaughter he does get jail time.

I believe that anyone who was so wreckless as to do what he did should be charged with murder, at the very least he showed no regard for Michael's life, but I still think someone could have paid him to do it.

Yep! hilliver, you aren't alone in your frustration, in the beginning so many of us felt almost the same exact way as you do.

 

[Moddie777]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

People liked Anna Nicole Smith and loved Elvis and their doctors didn't lose their licenses. I have people in my area who got charge with malpractice and they still practice.

It has been said before, but it is the medical board not the LAPD that has the right to revoke licenses. So, this is hardly "they don't like Michael" rule.

Ramona, although I respect the information given from your post, I still agree with vncwilliam's post and stand by my initial comment and opinion.

Thank you for your input, though.

 

[BillieJean84]

RERE:RE:RE:REMedical Board

It has been said before, but it is the medical board not the LAPD that has the right to revoke licenses. So, this is hardly "they don't like Michael" rule.

oh ok well that explains it. So perhaps we or someone, should petition whatever 'medical board' that he works for...?

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Dr. Conrad Murray told Michael Jackson he was a "Holistic Doctor",
and he convinced Michael Jackson he was the best doctor to
treat his health concerns; instead, Conrad Murray prescribed and
used dangerous drugs and did not protect the health of his patient at all.

This is a very interesting post. I never heard that once and would like to know where you got that information.

He is a cardiologist and they are most definitely not holistic practitioners.

Perhaps you are mistaking him with Nurse Lee?

 

[Beachlover]

Re: RERE:RE:RE:REMedical Board

oh ok well that explains it. So perhaps we or someone, should petition whatever 'medical board' that he works for...?

Thats fine. What do you propose we say in the petition? What facts do you have that can be presented to the medical board to back up what you are saying. His record is clean up till now and the DEA is already on the job. I am sure the medical board is going to look into this because this has now been brought to their attention, but a petition should contain some facts.

 

[funkyfish]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

so he is already saying mj had a pulse , infact I read an article where murray's other attorney insisted mj had pulse when they transported him to the hospital .

Murrays lawyers sound like assess, they keep contradicting themselves, n they let (made?) him do that bizzare youtube vid lol.

With regards to the tod, what about lividity? i know there was an article talking about it somewhere but i cant remember if it said coronors had actually found lividity or just talking about it being a possibility. Would that give a clearer tod? or just let people know if the body was moved?

oh ok well that explains it. So perhaps we or someone, should petition whatever 'medical board' that he works for...?

I dont think theres any point petitioning anything untill we know more about how the investigations going or even till it ends..

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Murrays lawyers sound like assess, they keep contradicting themselves, n they let (made?) him do that bizzare youtube vid lol.

With regards to the tod, what about lividity? i know there was an article talking about it somewhere but i cant remember if it said coronors had actually found lividity or just talking about it being a possibility. Would that give a clearer tod? or just let people know if the body was moved?

I dont think theres any point petitioning anything untill we know more about how the investigations going or even till it ends..

From my understanding, it was the MTs that saw the lividity. That is how they knew he was dead, for a good while too. That was another reason why the LAPD was called before Michael was officially announce dead. So the lawyer saying Michael had a pulse is bull. All the MTs said that Michael had 'nothing', his heart was dead.

The petitioning will not really work at this stage. Murray has not been officially charge. At this point, he is only a person of interest. If other persons are involve, which I doubt, they want to charge everyone at once and not one person at a time. Which is why they are taking their time. If they are other 'doctors' involve, the medical board want to know them all, so they can decide if licenses need to be taken.

In either case, things will not move until until charges are filed.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Jackson Time of Death a Mystery
Posted Aug 26th 2009 4:22AM by TMZ Staff

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ the L.A. County Coroner cannot pinpoint the time of Michael Jackson's death ... but paramedics say when they arrived they believed he was dead for at least an hour and maybe longer.

Dr. Conrad Murray's statement to LAPD detectives lays out a timeline in which Dr. Murray administered Propofol at 10:40 AM and then ten minutes later (10:50) he walked out of the room, went to the bathroom and returned two minutes later (10:52) to find Jackson was not breathing. He did not have anyone call 911 until 12:21 PM ... approximately an hour-and-a-half later.

Sources say cops are suspicious of Dr. Murray's account. They say when Dr. Murray was interviewed by them two days after Jackson died -- his lawyer by his side -- the doctor's account seemed "scripted."

So when did Jackson really die? Rigor mortis typically doesn't set in for at least 3 hours, and often longer. If rigor mortis has not set in, the only way to approximate time of death is by body temperature. Once a person dies, their temperature eventually rises or falls to the temperature of the environment. For example, if Jackson were in a 70 degree room, his body temp would drop to 70. The body temperature typically drops a degree to a degree and a half per hour, but it's dependent on the ambient temperature.

Here's the problem -- when paramedics arrived the room was sweltering. So Jackson's body temperature could register in the 90 degree range, even if he were dead for a long time. But we're told paramedics did not get a read on his body temp because they were busy performing CPR.

Bottom line -- it's possible Jackson could have been dead much longer than Dr. Murray said. There's no scientific way of knowing.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

With regards to the tod, what about lividity? i know there was an article talking about it somewhere but i cant remember if it said coronors had actually found lividity or just talking about it being a possibility. Would that give a clearer tod? or just let people know if the body was moved?

yeah as ramona says the emts saw lividity. but from reading about it it can start anywere from 20 mins to 3hrs after death. but yes what the emts saw will give us a good idea even if the corroner couldnt determine an exact time. im sure the emts know a body thats been gone 20 mins or rather than one thats been gone a couple of hours

if they cant determine a proper TOD it will come down to cirmcumstantial. why was the heating on full blast in june when heating can help to cover up the TOD.were the phonecalls to the women who went to the lockup connected to murray finding mj and covering things up.does the timings murray gave make sense in that mj was asking for dip at 10am when he was due at rehearsals.meaning mj was alredy gone at 10 and murray needs an excuse for why the normal routine was taking place that morning. would he even be in a fit state to ask for it after all the benzos.theres loads of questions like this loads of contridictions from murray.

if they cant probe a TOD then basically any cover up charge goes out of the window but u still have murder 2 by disregard for human life because of him giving dip outside of a hospital setting with no resusitation equipment available ontop of using such a drug in the first place when it wasnt necess

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

yeah as ramona says the emts saw lividity. but from reading about it it can start anywere from 20 mins to 3hrs after death. but yes what the emts saw will give us a good idea even if the corroner couldnt determine an exact time. im sure the emts know a body thats been gone 20 mins or rather than one thats been gone a couple of hours

if they cant determine a proper TOD it will come down to cirmcumstantial. why was the heating on full blast in june when heating can help to cover up the TOD.were the phonecalls to the women who went to the lockup connected to murray finding mj and covering things up.does the timings murray gave make sense in that mj was asking for dip at 10am when he was due at rehearsals.meaning mj was alredy gone at 10 and murray needs an excuse for why the normal routine was taking place that morning. would he even be in a fit state to ask for it after all the benzos.theres loads of questions like this loads of contridictions from murray.

If Michael had lividity, it does not really matter if he was dead for 20 or 3 hours. The fact is, he was dead for a good while. Which flies in the face of Murray's claim that Michael was still alive and had a pulse. His lawyer went as far to say that Michael had a pulse even as they left the house, which was a lie that the MTs confirm.

How exactly is Murray going to explain that Michael was already forming lividity when he supposedly had a pulse. That he had the MTs work on a dead body for 45 minutes. If he was in denial that Michael was dead and wanted to save him, that still wouldn't fly. He is a doctor. For better and for worst, he should know when he it was hopeless. Especially if he was not breathing and had no pulse for twenty minutes. Yet, it never occur to him to call 911 right away.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I am not sure what you mean by 'he found MJ in dire need of help'.

To me this means you view what happened differently from me which is ok, but this is what is not clear to me. You have stated Michael was 'suffering' before and I don't understand what you mean. You don't suffer with Propofol at all. it is probably the kindest death you can have.

I feel with the facts that were presented it is not 'murder' but serious negligence. I'm not sure we know enough to make this determination. As you said, the times don't make sense. My question is this. WHAT IF Murray was telling the truth and there was a pulse? WHAT IF the times were stated incorrectly in the police report? WHAT IF?

I don't say this makes him not responsible, but it changes things ever so slightly IF that is what happened. "Intoxication" is a medical term simply for too much for that patient. It doesn't state any amount. I think the stated amount was 25 and some say it is not enough but is IS in many people. There is a concentration in fluid so who is to say that 25mg is too much or not enough or just the right amount.....or what he really gave. We do not know.

I meant by "suffering" he was not yet completely dead .

as for he may have pulse , the Chief of Fire department confirmed that when they arrived MJ had no pulse and was not breathing . according to TMZ and they were pretty credible when it came to the investigation said the paramedics believed MJ was dead for at least an hour when they arrived . That's the conclusion I reached when I heard what the Chief said to CNN , talking about we worked on him yet we knew he was already gone , we wanted to transport him to the hospital , but the doctor insisted we work on him at the scene.

and now we know the LAPD were notified around 1:00 pm , when the paramedics were preparing to move him to hospital .


as for the amounts , Beachlover , Chernoff did not question the amounts in his statement, he clearly questioned the "11 o'clock he found him not breathing"

and later after the cause of death and amounts of drugs were announced chernoff released a statement in which he urged them to release the amounts ,

so he knew what murray admitted to was much less than what wast found in mj's system .

25mg MEDICALLY would have done NOTHING . How come 25mg lased hours ? medically speaking , if he started the drip an hour before then it was already over , I'm speaking medically here .


by the way he claimed he used to give mj 50 mg only everyday to sleep , and 8 hours of propofol needed 8 bottles of propofol 3 big and five small .

Was murray worried the detectives at some point would know his supplies of propofol did n't match the 6 weeks story and felt he had to adjust the "daily dose" to fit what they would discover later .


because if indeed he told them i was giving him 50 mg daily for 8 hours of sleep ( medically impossible 50 mg would sedate a person an average of 3 to 4 minutes and in some people do nothing at all) , how is he gonna explain the HUGE amounts of propofol purchased( assuming he indeed was using propofol daily to sedate mj )

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

If Michael had lividity, it does not really matter if he was dead for 20 or 3 hours. The fact is, he was dead for a good while. Which flies in the face of Murray's claim that Michael was still alive and had a pulse. His lawyer went as far to say that Michael had a pulse even as they left the house, which was a lie that the MTs confirm.

yeah true. thats another contridiction interms of what his lawyer said but interms of the whole cover up story of course its fair worse if u can prove mj was gone at say 9am and u did nothing till 12.that lawyer opened his mouth way to much. everything little thing he said will be used against murray shame!

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

5mg MEDICALLY would have done NOTHING

i wonder about this.forgetting the timings murray gave of i gave him loz at 5am etc if someone was dopped up with benzos and u gave him only 25mg of diprivan medically speaking could that cause him to stop breathing. yep the dip is only a small amount but because of all the benzos in your system its enough to push u over.?

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

i wonder about this.forgetting the timings murray gave of i gave him loz at 5am etc if someone was dopped up with benzos and u gave him only 25mg of diprivan medically speaking could that cause him to stop breathing. yep the dip is only a small amount but because of all the benzos in your system its enough to push u over.?

elusive darling forget about all the other benzos mentioned ALL OF THEM ,

the cause of death propofol and a contriuting factor lorazepam , NOT MIDAZOLAM NOR VALIUM .

so 2 mg of lorazepam 4 hours before propofol and then 25m of propofol over a period of 80 minutes ? NOTHING -_- my mom take lorazepam like it's candy uke: and 2 mg are NOTHING in someone with high tolerance , not calling mj addict but we all know these kinds of drugs never worked in his case , so he had tolerance to them , it is just his body really .


I'm going by what murray said here ofcourse .

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

i wonder about this.forgetting the timings murray gave of i gave him loz at 5am etc if someone was dopped up with benzos and u gave him only 25mg of diprivan medically speaking could that cause him to stop breathing. yep the dip is only a small amount but because of all the benzos in your system its enough to push u over.?

The only drug out of the bunch that was contributor to his death was loz with diprivan being the main cause. So, he gave him alot more loz then what he claimed to give to police. Murray tried to make it looked like Michael took others himself in pill form. I would have to ask, however, if Murray only left for ten minutes and Michael was knocked out, when did Michael wake up and decided to gabble up pills? Murray was supposedly with him all night, so he didn't do it doing that time. So, that pill theory was weird even before the tox came out.

I remember Murray's lawyer, in his great wisdom, said that everything that was injected was Murray's responsibility. Every pill was Michael. No pills was found, so it is all Murray's responsibility, per the statement of his lawyer.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

The only drug out of the bunch that was contributor to his death was loz with diprivan being the main cause. So, he gave him alot more loz then what he claimed to give to police. Murray tried to make it looked like Michael took others himself in pill form. I would have to ask, however, if Murray only left for ten minutes and Michael was knocked out, when did Michael wake up and decided to gabble up pills? Murray was supposedly with him all night, so he didn't do it doing that time. So, that pill theory was weird even before the tox came out.

I remember Murray's lawyer, in his great wisdom, said that everything that was injected was Murray's responsibility. Every pill was Michael. No pills was found, so it is all Murray's responsibility, per the statement of his lawyer.

"the pill theory " you better remember Murray did not tell the paramedics and UCLA doctors he gave mj propofol that day , you better remember he was directing the coroner to look for lorazepam , and even asked mj's family to do an autopy to figure out what happened to mj , cus he could not figure how mj died :smilerolleyes: chernoff said that



as for "the pills are mj's responsibility "that what I said he MEANT when he challenged the police to release the amounts found in mj's system , Murray and chernoff told the investigators what he gave to mj that night , and everything expect one valium pill was through an iv , so they were clearly saying all the pills are not our responsibility .

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

but no large amount of pills were in his system

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

"the pill theory " you better remember Murray did not tell the paramedics and UCLA doctors he gave mj propofol that day , you better remember he was directing the coroner to look for lorazepam , and even asked mj's family to do an autopy to figure out what happened to mj , cus he could not figure how mj died :smilerolleyes: chernoff said that



as for "the pills are mj's responsibility "that what I said he MEANT when he challenged the police to release the amounts found in mj's system , Murray and chernoff told the investigators what he gave to mj that night , and everything expect one valium pill was through an iv , so they were clearly saying all the pills are not our responsibility .

It is it just me, or does Murray lawyer seems to be as dumb as he is. I know he is poor and may not be able to afford a top tier lawyer, but seriously.

I am beginning to wonder if Murray thinks the entire world is as dumb as he is. He dared them to do an autopsy because he didn't know what went wrong. Okay, even if propofol was not found because they didn't test for it and only found lorazepam, Murray still would had been screw. Did Murray not think they wouldn't open up Michael stomach and see if there were any pills. Even if was just lorazepam, he had to get it through an iv in that case. Which Murray said 'he' gave him.

Unless we were going to be led to believe that Michael reached up and turn the dosage on himself when Murray left the room or something, keep in mind he was knocked out, how does that even work?

All of Murray's theories seems to lack common sense.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Soundmind, thanks for explaining. Its these 'little' details that stick in my head sometimes.

Here is something that as a medical person I do NOT understand, or rather, makes no sense to me and sounds wrong.

The lividity part. IF he had lividity, I question why the paramedics did not call their chief immediately and report this. I understand that Murray was there and he was a doctor but the paramedics would have known something was wrong and are obligated to report this. This isn't a simple matter of "the doctor said so....so we had to". That doesn't fly as I have worked with hundreds of paramedics and one thing these people do is follow the book/rules. They won't take someone to transport from a hospital if the blood pressure is low, not to mention missing without calling 'home' base.

The other part of this that sounds wrong to me is that UCLA worked on him. Lividity is a Dead On Arrival to me. Thats a no work on case and if that is true, why did they? They would have picked up liability. In the ER if they are dead on arrival with lividity this is a no brainer. I question this part as being accurate which makes me think he was really not dead but then again,.....

You don't perform CPR on someone with a pulse, weak or not. You push medicine through the IV to speed up the heart and you give breaths (breathing), usually with an ambu bag, but it can be done manually (which most professionals will no longer do without some form of protection mask). With a pulse, breathing is the most important thing.

So.....since Murrays lawyer states that some is true and some is police theory, I have to wonder which is true and which is theory. His lawyer has not spoken much about it since.

They did put in a central line (an IV catheter which is pictured in his neck that does go straight to the heart) and they have intubated him in that 'last photo'. His coloring does not look like a dead man. I have seen many and believe me, Michael looked good there. So, they intubated him and put in a central line and moved him to the hospital and somewhere I read that the ambulance went slowly because they were working on him and somewhere else I read the ambulance sped away. We know it backed up slowly but after that?

My question is simply this. Did they ever get a pulse back? It is possible they did but if he was without oxygen for too long (minutes count) and was he brain dead? It was said that Frank Dileo knew he was already dead because of the nurse at UCLA but they were continuing to work on him?

Also note this part for accuracy. The very second Michael arrived at UCLA Dr Murray was no longer "the doctor" in charge or had part in anything. He would not have been allowed to 'do' anything as he didn't work there or have priviledges. He would NOT have been asked to do anything (in fact, would have not been allowed) and would NOT have been asked to sign the death certificate (as has been stated) or call time of death.

Some things just are 'assumed' in the story but they are inaccurate as reported by the press, as I have shown that CNN did the Propofol video and it was not the bible on how Propofol is used outside the operating room. This drug CAN be injected with a needle (like a flu shot would be) but it won't keep a person out for long. It was also reported WRONG that they put an IV in his legs. (or tried) WRONG. He had a central line (IV that goes directly into the heart) in his neck. (unless those pictures are wrong....but my gut tells me they are real). You can see this on the left side of his shoulder in the photos.

Please also note that you can make mistakes anywhere along this process. You can puncture something when putting in a central line, you can screw up when placing the breathing tube (wrong place again). So, did Murray let the workers do the central line or did he himself do it.

He was a cardiologist that performed cardiac catheterizations so he would be familiar with central lines, intubation and Propofol. His license to practice up till now has been clean or we would have known about it by now.

The oxygen tanks mean little to me actually because you don't need oxygen to give the drug and it means nothing. He used them in Neverland too (there were photos of oxygen tanks from the first raid way back when). The Lupus also means little to me and I don't know if he had this and why people believe he did. His nanny Grace DID and it was stated in an interview. Just little things that I have learned over my years of working in the medical profession.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

The only drug out of the bunch that was contributor to his death was loz with diprivan being the main cause. So, he gave him alot more loz then what he claimed to give to police. Murray tried to make it looked like Michael took others himself in pill form. I would have to ask, however, if Murray only left for ten minutes and Michael was knocked out, when did Michael wake up and decided to gabble up pills? Murray was supposedly with him all night, so he didn't do it doing that time. So, that pill theory was weird even before the tox came out.

I remember Murray's lawyer, in his great wisdom, said that everything that was injected was Murray's responsibility. Every pill was Michael. No pills was found, so it is all Murray's responsibility, per the statement of his lawyer.

Ramona, the 'pill theory' was pushed by the reporters....NOT Murray from what I recall reading back then. To me this looks like Murray was shocked that what he did killed Michael; meaning he didn't 'get it' and didn't know why this happened.

We all 'assume' Michael was knocked out, but was he? If he was asking for things or speaking to Murray, he was not knocked out. This is a matter of what do you believe; not what is necessarily fact.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

"the pill theory " you better remember Murray did not tell the paramedics and UCLA doctors he gave mj propofol that day , you better remember he was directing the coroner to look for lorazepam , and even asked mj's family to do an autopy to figure out what happened to mj , cus he could not figure how mj died :smilerolleyes: chernoff said that

as for "the pills are mj's responsibility "that what I said he MEANT when he challenged the police to release the amounts found in mj's system , Murray and chernoff told the investigators what he gave to mj that night , and everything expect one valium pill was through an iv , so they were clearly saying all the pills are not our responsibility .

Legal note: Autopsy is automatic if a patient dies in the hospital within 24 hours I am near positive.

What gets us is when the 'news' comes along and says something different or we just assume there is an autopsy because of foul play. Not so. This was a 50 year old man who showed up and either died there or was DOA (which was not called at the time...why??)

Also, Murray spoke to the police and freely admitted to giving the Propofol. How do we 'know' for a fact what he told the paramedics or the UCLA doctors? I don't think we do.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

i wonder about this.forgetting the timings murray gave of i gave him loz at 5am etc if someone was dopped up with benzos and u gave him only 25mg of diprivan medically speaking could that cause him to stop breathing. yep the dip is only a small amount but because of all the benzos in your system its enough to push u over.?

Answer to this simple question. Yes.

Please note that it was stated by Murrays attorney very early on that the police did not state everything accurately. This has not been discussed since and I am sure there is a reason. They are waiting for charges and possible trial.