The Michael/Paul McCartney/Beatles Catalog Story - What's the real story? [MERGED]

[PoP]

I agree. i still listen to beatles music though that's not saying what he doing is wrong and not on my list of people who believes Michael is guilty.

Heh. You made it sound like I hate The Beatles, I don’t hate the band, I always loves em’, but I’m saying it’s getting to hard for me to trust Paul for whining all the time about the catalogue, I mean he only wanted it back, because Michael bought fairly after he refuse to buy it back because it was “too pricey”, if he hadn’t blabbed about the catalogue, Michael wouldn’t have bought it. And seeing Paul on Oprah’s side is just sickening and why I lost trust in him anymore. He’s not my favourite Beatle anyways since Ringo’s my favourite.

 

[Hudson112]

From looking back at this. it was right for Michael to take the catalog. those songs wasn't paul's. those songs were from black artists who songs were stole from them. love the beatles. love paul. but yeah. Michael did the right thing.

bless you Michael may you r.i.p dear.

They sampled one line in the entire song, which in turn might have affected the rest of the melody of the song but everything else is completely original, but that was one song out of over 200 songs. No, they did not steal from black artists. And why are you blaming it on Paul, when it was John Lennon who wrote that song? BTW, John publicly spoke about his love for Chuck Berry, so it’s not like it was that much of a secret.

 

[ChrisC]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

If Michael had done it it would be universally depicted as theft.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Come Together was stolen off Chuck Berry. And Michael made sure he reclaimed it. Bought The Beatles publishing rights and re-recorded THE ONE SONG they were found to have plagiarised. <br><br>That&#39;s POWER &#128074;&#127997; <a href="https://t.co/TOLiNyR0B9">https://t.co/TOLiNyR0B9</a> <a href="https://t.co/KgNR5uXEB7">pic.twitter.com/KgNR5uXEB7</a></p>&mdash; Samar @TheMJAP (@TheMJAP) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheMJAP/status/1249834764984635393?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Hudson112]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Come Together was stolen off Chuck Berry. And Michael made sure he reclaimed it. Bought The Beatles publishing rights and re-recorded THE ONE SONG they were found to have plagiarised. <br><br>That&#39;s POWER &#128074;&#127997; <a href="https://t.co/TOLiNyR0B9">https://t.co/TOLiNyR0B9</a> <a href="https://t.co/KgNR5uXEB7">pic.twitter.com/KgNR5uXEB7</a></p>&mdash; Samar @TheMJAP (@TheMJAP) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheMJAP/status/1249834764984635393?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Please take the above comments into consideration about the whole Chuck Berry thing.

 

[Hudson112]

“It is nothing like the Chuck Berry song, but they took me to court because I admitted the influence once years ago. I could have changed it to ‘Here comes old iron face,’ but the song remains independent of Chuck Berry or anybody else on earth.” - John Lennon, 1980

 

[dethorro]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Come Together was stolen off Chuck Berry. And Michael made sure he reclaimed it. Bought The Beatles publishing rights and re-recorded THE ONE SONG they were found to have plagiarised. <br><br>That's POWER &#128074;&#127997; <a href="https://t.co/TOLiNyR0B9">https://t.co/TOLiNyR0B9</a> <a href="https://t.co/KgNR5uXEB7">pic.twitter.com/KgNR5uXEB7</a></p>— Samar @TheMJAP (@TheMJAP) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheMJAP/status/1249834764984635393?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

NatureCriminal7896, If you believe that John Lennon stole Come Together from Chuck Berry then I guess you also believe that Michael stole Billie Jean from Jon and Vangelis and The Way You Make Me Feel from Tears For Fears, right?

 

[Nite Line]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

Taking inspiration from another artist's song isn't called stealing. Using this logic, Michael must have stolen Billie Jean from Jon and Vangelis. I am no Elvis or Beatles fan, but I think it's ridiculous to say that they stole songs from black artists. Especially, Elvis gets a lot of hate for that, when he never took credit for writing the songs. He always gave credit to the people who wrote songs for him.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Please take the above comments into consideration about the whole Chuck Berry thing.

“It is nothing like the Chuck Berry song, but they took me to court because I admitted the influence once years ago. I could have changed it to ‘Here comes old iron face,’ but the song remains independent of Chuck Berry or anybody else on earth.” - John Lennon, 1980

NatureCriminal7896, If you believe that John Lennon stole Come Together from Chuck Berry then I guess you also believe that Michael stole Billie Jean from Jon and Vangelis and The Way You Make Me Feel from Tears For Fears, right?

They sampled one line in the entire song, which in turn might have affected the rest of the melody of the song but everything else is completely original, but that was one song out of over 200 songs. No, they did not steal from black artists. And why are you blaming it on Paul, when it was John Lennon who wrote that song? BTW, John publicly spoke about his love for Chuck Berry, so it’s not like it was that much of a secret.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You&#39;re going to struggle arguing with Paul McCartney on this. <br><br>Paul heard the song. And said the SONG SOUNDED like Chuck Berry&#39;s - not lyrically. And to disguise that, he told John Lennon to slow the track down (again, not related to the lyrics).<br><br>You&#39;re wasting your time. <a href="https://t.co/eBYR56vp7o">pic.twitter.com/eBYR56vp7o</a></p>&mdash; Samar @TheMJAP (@TheMJAP) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheMJAP/status/1250344405854089216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Hudson112]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You&#39;re going to struggle arguing with Paul McCartney on this. <br><br>Paul heard the song. And said the SONG SOUNDED like Chuck Berry&#39;s - not lyrically. And to disguise that, he told John Lennon to slow the track down (again, not related to the lyrics).<br><br>You&#39;re wasting your time. <a href="https://t.co/eBYR56vp7o">pic.twitter.com/eBYR56vp7o</a></p>&mdash; Samar @TheMJAP (@TheMJAP) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheMJAP/status/1250344405854089216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I honestly can’t tell what you’re trying to say with this tweet. Maybe you should use your own words.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

I honestly don't know who to believe anymore. people saying they stole black artists songs. people saying they didn't. i'm not sure who to believe. all I have to said is, I don't think nothing wrong to be inspire by other artists as long you give credit. it is true that a lot white artists stole songs from black artists. that's a fact.

some artists in the beatles catalog was black and their songs was taken away and when Michael brought it he gave those songs back to them. soooo..... i don't know....

this was different time and it still was a problem in the late 70's and 80's. it was already hard for Michael to do a lot because the color of his skin sadly. thought he did get through.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

A musician friend of mine is a prolific songwriter, and he finds inspiration everywhere. He’s always like, “Yesterday I heard that song and it inspired me to write this melody, what do you think?” Musicians neither live in a vacuum, nor does any of them invent music anew with every song they write. They’re all standing on the shoulders of giants.

 

[Hudson112]

I honestly don't know who to believe anymore. people saying they stole black artists songs. people saying they didn't. i'm not sure who to believe. all I have to said is, I don't think nothing wrong to be inspire by other artists as long you give credit. it is true that a lot white artists stole songs from black artists. that's a fact.

some artists in the beatles catalog was black and their songs was taken away and when Michael brought it he gave those songs back to them. soooo..... i don't know....

this was different time and it still was a problem in the late 70's and 80's. it was already hard for Michael to do a lot because the color of his skin sadly. thought he did get through.

The only argument you could even make for them stealing from black artists is the Chuck Berry “Come Together” situation and that’s not even that good of an argument when John has publicly spoken about how much of an inspiration Chuck Berry was. Every other time they would only do cover songs like “Roll Over Beethoven” by Chuck Berry, “Money (That’s What I Want)” by Barrett Strong, and both songs have a fair and square writing credit to their respective writers. You’re not stealing when you give credit.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

The only argument you could even make for them stealing from black artists is the Chuck Berry “Come Together” situation and that’s not even that good of an argument when John has publicly spoken about how much of an inspiration Chuck Berry was. Every other time they would only do cover songs like “Roll Over Beethoven” by Chuck Berry, “Money (That’s What I Want)” by Barrett Strong, and both songs have a fair and square writing credit to their respective writers. You’re not stealing when you give credit.

This. As long as credit is given where credit is due, and as long as people get paid accordingly, it’s perfectly fine.

The problem with the situation as a whole is, that black artists didn’t get the same opportunities as white artists. Elvis wouldn’t have been such a huge success if he had been black. So in that general sense, one could argue that the white music scene “stole” rock’n roll, blues etc. from black musicians because the black artists weren’t given the same chance to be successful.

It’s not Elvis’ personal fault, it’s an aspect of systemic racism.

Check out Big Mama Thornton, for example. She recorded Hound Dog before Elvis.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/frsBq9MCNVg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[dethorro]

This. As long as credit is given where credit is due, and as long as people get paid accordingly, it’s perfectly fine.

The problem with the situation as a whole is, that black artists didn’t get the same opportunities as white artists. Elvis wouldn’t have been such a huge success if he had been black. So in that general sense, one could argue that the white music scene “stole” rock’n roll, blues etc. from black musicians because the black artists weren’t given the same chance to be successful.

It’s not Elvis’ personal fault, it’s an aspect of systemic racism.

Check out Big Mama Thornton, for example. She recorded Hound Dog before Elvis.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/frsBq9MCNVg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Incredible version! And I agree with you, once again :laughing:

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Incredible version! And I agree with you, once again :laughing:

I learned only recently that the song was actually written for her.

&#8220;After hearing Thornton rehearse several songs, Leiber and Stoller "forged a tune to suit her personality&#8212;brusque and badass".&#8221;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hound_Dog_(song)#Background_and_composition

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_Elvis_Presley

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_covered_by_the_Beatles

I'm not sure why people keep saying the stole songs. but these were very helpful for me. through it's still true that white artists did steal from black artists. maybe not them but it still was the problem at the time. racism exists.(still does in some cases) so some white artists probably didn't know the songs they were singing were from black artists because of songwriters etc.

but like I just said i don't see nothing wrong being inspire by someone as long you give them credit.

but i'm still curious about this catalog thing because people are saying that the black artists music were stolen.

 

[ozemouze]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

Check out Big Mama Thornton, for example. She recorded Hound Dog before Elvis.

wow :listeningtomusic

*goes to check out more performances by Big Mama Thornton*

 

[ScreenOrigami]

wow :listeningtomusic

*goes to check out more performances by Big Mama Thornton*

It’s fun tracking these origins down.

While you’re at it, also check out Big Maybelle who recorded “Whole Lotta Shakin’ Goin’ On” two years before Jerry Lee Lewis.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PZWH-WiHVOE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The year is 1955 and the recording was conducted and arranged by a fresh new talent by the name of Quincy Jones.

 

[ozemouze]

It’s fun tracking these origins down.

While you’re at it, also check out Big Maybelle who recorded “Whole Lotta Shakin’ Goin’ On” two years before Jerry Lee Lewis.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PZWH-WiHVOE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The year is 1955 and the recording was conducted and arranged by a fresh new talent by the name of Quincy Jones.

Typical Quincy orchestration sound from that era. It's great stuff too but Big Mama Thornton is a real discovery for me, I can't believe I haven't heard about her before.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

The way I heard it, Paul was given first dibs on the catalogue, but passed because of the price. Michael then picked it up, which he had already mentioned to Paul in a previous conversation. Why their friendship was thrown off because of this, I honestly don't know.

 

[Hess]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

It was Pauls own decision not to buy it.

And honestly - MJ was better as a owner than any other...

When Paul didn't want to buy it seems weird to be mad that someone else does...

 

[Xeones]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

Mike saved The Beatles' music from being owned by someone like Sony. I'm 50/50 on this topic, though.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

Paul should of brought the catalog when he had the chance. it's nobody fault but his. Michael was a good owner.

 

[The Bad Moonwalker]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

Not from what we seen with Come Together!

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

Not from what we seen with Come Together!

I actually like both versions. it's sadly me when some people don't realize this is a beatles song. though if Michael didn't already i'm pretty sure he told his non beatles fans that it was. he a was fan anyway if his fans already known.

 

[MichaelD]

Do you happen to know on which occasion this photo was taken? I find it quite interesting to see Michael flash one of his trademark huge smiles with beaming eyes, making an open gesture with his arms, showing the palms of his hands, while Paul puts on an act with a clenched fist. There&#8217;s probably some funny story that led to this particular pose, but in hindsight it&#8217;s somehow symbolic. :laughing:

Since it was already said that this photo is from November 1989 at one of McCartney's L.A. concerts, I want to add this.
Even in 1989 the photographer and/or the distributing agency, REX Features [belonging to Shutterstock today], added this text to the photo. And while we're at it, I'll share it in HQ.

"Paul Mccartney with his friend Michael Jackson. There were rumours that the pair had fallen out after Jackson bought the rights to Lennon-Mccartney songs for $47.5 Million. They pose together in this picture dispelling the rumours."

(Save the image or open it in a new tab to see the bigger size)

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

"Paul Mccartney with his friend Michael Jackson. There were rumours that the pair had fallen out after Jackson bought the rights to Lennon-Mccartney songs for $47.5 Million. They pose together in this picture dispelling the rumours.")

Thank you!

I hope, Sir Paul finds your post next time he googles himself. :laughing:

 

[Anna]

Re: Do you think it was wrong for Michael to take The Beatles Catalog away from Paul McCartney?

Thank you!

I hope, Sir Paul finds your post next time he googles himself. :laughing:

lol. Why are you acting like you've caught Paul McCartney out in a spicy lie? He wasn't happy about the catalog situation but he was always diplomatic about it from what I've seen. It's not like he flipped his lid and severed their relationship. They drifted apart over time. It's not like he hated Michael. He was supportive when the allegations came out in 93. He was supportive when Michael had plastic surgery and everyone thought he was bleaching his skin. He was supportive when Michael died. And he gave a very reasonable response when he was put on the spot about LN.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

lol. Why are you acting like you've caught Paul McCartney out in a spicy lie? He wasn't happy about the catalog situation but he was always diplomatic about it from what I've seen. It's not like he flipped his lid and severed their relationship. They drifted apart over time. It's not like he hated Michael.

I think this has mostly been addressed in the thread before. Let me try to sum it up. Paul has been peddling his version of events to the media all through the years, knowing full well how much weight the public would give it, simply due to who he was. He kept implying that he was cheated out of the catalogue, while in the same sentence joking about how MJ told him he&#8217;s gonna buy the songs. Essentially navigating around the fact that he was notified about MJ&#8217;s intentions by turning it into a funny story about how he didn&#8217;t take it seriously. That&#8217;s what he continuously told the media from the late 80&#8217;s onward.

He&#8217;s on tape saying: &#8220;We don&#8217;t have that great a relationship, to put it that way.&#8221;

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XmLO9Hk_ZaU?start=61" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So, yes, he&#8217;s on record saying that he was miffed about the whole situation &#8211; but can be seen in photos with MJ that were clearly not taken on occasions where they accidentally bumped into each other, notably at one of his own concerts in 1989 where MJ showed up backstage, and on the set of Black or White in 1991. Now, I assume neither Paul&#8217;s backstage area nor MJ&#8217;s film set had a revolving door where anyone could just walk in to quickly say hello, especially not someone who you&#8217;re not on good terms with. Seeing them hanging out, while Paul was on a media campaign that seriously harmed MJ&#8217;s reputation particularly in the UK to me seemed worth pointing out. Thus, my comment.