What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

[ScreenOrigami]

How many of his accidents and injuries coincide with court dates and how many do not? Perhaps someone can make a list for easy reference.

I would actually do this if my collection was organized enough at this point, which it isn’t.

Pajama day & the spider incident, as far as I can tell.

The problem is, when you present a list of those dates, the next thing that gets thrown in is, he faked his way out of the HBO concert, he was too lazy to perform at the Soul Train Awards etc. Basically, to certain people Michael is a lazy, lying, cheating, shady character who is only concerned about his own personal gain in any given situation. This serves as a vehicle for all sorts of other wild claims.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Michael did appear in court with the spider bite injury anyway, as you can easily tell by the crutches in the background. This is December 3rd 2002:

 

[Anna]

I would actually do this if my collection was organized enough at this point, which it isn’t.

Pajama day & the spider incident, as far as I can tell.

The problem is, when you present a list of those dates, the next thing that gets thrown in is, he faked his way out of the HBO concert, he was too lazy to perform at the Soul Train Awards etc. Basically, to certain people Michael is a lazy, lying, cheating, shady character who is only concerned about his own personal gain in any given situation. This serves as a vehicle for all sorts of other wild claims.

I'm sure we can just keep it to a list of health incidents. And if someone thinks Michael's behaviour is shady, then that's just their opinion. It's not something you need to worry about.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

I'm sure we can just keep it to a list of health incidents.

Maybe someone with a more complete collection than my own can make such a list and it could be a sticky thread for easy referral?

 

[Anna]

Maybe someone with a more complete collection than my own can make such a list and it could be a sticky thread for easy referral?

I don't think we need a sticky for something like that, people can just search for it.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

The actual bite is very small, but the venom that the spider releases into the wound eats the flesh that surrounds the bite. So the wound gets bigger. Michael may even have been bitten before he went to sleep, and simply didn’t notice it at first. It’s really a very small spider, so you may not even notice it when they bite.

I hope you all sleep well tonight. :laughing:

one spider is enough but more i don't think we'll be alive long.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

one spider is enough but more i don't think we'll be alive long.

I didn’t mean to scare anyone. Most spiders only bite when they don’t have a chance to flee. Like when they are trapped under the bed sheets or something. Usually they just run away.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

That makes me feel better. Thanks ?

Yeah mj testified at the avram trial.my favourite quote was when he was asked if he had a memory problem his reply was,"not that i can recall"?

 

[ScreenOrigami]

That makes me feel better. Thanks ��

Yeah, I’m really sorry. I have a big heart for creepy-crawlies and I sometimes forget that others don’t.

Yeah mj testified at the avram trial.my favourite quote was when he was asked if he had a memory problem his reply was,"not that i can recall"��

LOL. :laughing:

Do you happen to have the transcript? I don’t think I’ve seen it yet.

 

[Mikky Dee]

That makes me feel better. Thanks 😂

Yeah mj testified at the avram trial.my favourite quote was when he was asked if he had a memory problem his reply was,"not that i can recall"🤣

He was so cheeky and funny in court and in court depositions. I always remember the "Dangerous" deposition, where the sample of the song in question was played for him and then he was asked if he could hear any similarities between that song and his song (Dangerous) and he said, "YES!" The lawyer for the plaintiff thought she was onto something and thus, asked him to elaborate on the similarities and he said, "The word 'dangerous'." Bahahahaha!!

 

[ScreenOrigami]

He was so cheeky and funny in court and in court depositions. I always remember the "Dangerous" deposition, where the sample of the song in question was played for him and then he was asked if he could hear any similarities between that song and his song (Dangerous) and he said, "YES!" The lawyer for the plaintiff thought she was onto something and thus, asked him to elaborate on the similarities and he said, "The word 'dangerous'." Bahahahaha!!

The self-confidence of someone who knows he hasn’t done anything wrong.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Because he didn't do anything wrong. now there are some people who are good actors. but we know that he was/is innocent.

 

[terrell]

Spider bits can do damage to many people and some people have allergic reaction than others. Also, those false allegation in 1993 change MJ's path (and the trial made it worst). If those allegations never happen, a lot to decisions he would have never done or allowed.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Spider bits can do damage to many people and some people have allergic reaction than others. Also, those false allegation in 1993 change MJ's path (and the trial made it worst). If those allegations never happen, a lot to decisions he would have never done or allowed.

I agree. i think if it wasn't for the fake allegations Michael life would of probably been better beside the fake rumors before the fake allegations and the pespi accident. i think he probably would had done alot of stuff. who knew what was coming after dangerous? it probably would had been something different then history. (not saying history is a bad album) but something ten times better than it.

he really had half of his life ahead of him. not saying his career wasn't good after it but i think people can get what i'm am saying.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I didn’t mean to scare anyone. Most spiders only bite when they don’t have a chance to flee. Like when they are trapped under the bed sheets or something. Usually they just run away.

hahaha you didn't scared me. but some spiders are dangerous (no pun) though like the black willow. i'm not a fan of insects period but michael was. i think he had a pet tarantula. brave dude.

 

[IMWhizzle]

I agree. i think if it wasn't for the fake allegations Michael life would of probably been better beside the fake rumors before the fake allegations and the pespi accident. i think he probably would had done alot of stuff. who knew what was coming after dangerous? it probably would had been something different then history. (not saying history is a bad album) but something ten times better than it.

he really had half of his life ahead of him. not saying his career wasn't good after it but i think people can get what i'm am saying.

Actually, after HISTORY his career took a hit. Here is my take:

The only time he was back on top of the world was when he introduced the This Is It shows in London. Tickets were sold out in a blink of an eye. History was a huge success, but the US didn’t acknowledge his success. History approximately sold just about as much as at least the Bad album.

Sometimes I think that Michael was ridiculed by the public, because they were hungry for new material and after history he literally released one more single “YRMW”. That song was a hit around the globe. Only Kylie Minogue had a song which was battling in the charts with her single “can’t get you out of my head”. Eventually she won that battle between her and MJ. 😂

Then he disappeared for years as an entertainer. The media had enough time to ridicule him again until MJ finally announced the This Is It Tour. It was shown live on tv, which is extraordinary for a press conference of an artist.

MJ was king and I honestly think that the public was craving for guidance. MJ was loved, but his absence in the entertainment world was not a very good move business wise. I think he did this on purpose to focus on the kids and we can’t blame him for it.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I live in the US so that's probably why i feel different. you can say michael disappear on purpose but i think he did it because of the fake allegations and to spend time with his kids more.

2005 was it for michael. i meant he sold neverland and moved. he was tired of the public. not saying he didn't like his fans but he was also human and wanted a life not to be seen as a superstar sometimes.

yeah he came back for this is it but none of us not sure was it because he wanted to be relevant again or something to do with money.

 

[mj_frenzy]

If you're going to say, "documented in books", you need to provide examples and quotes, otherwise it seems as though you're just making it up. Also....David Geffen "hinted"....hinted where? When? In an interview? Which one? How would he be in a position to know anything about Michael's medical history and injury records.

David Geffen turned out to be rather untrustworthy when it comes to Michael, didn't he?
He screened "Leaving Neverland" on his yacht as part of Oprah Winfrey's big birthday bash last year.

Just because certain people thought Michael was faking his injuries, it doesn't mean that he actually did. Also, I don't see how seeing him on crutches in court would engender any sympathy for him, at all. It would be just another day at the office, for most people. In fact, in the 2005 trial,when Michael hurt his back, the judge ordered that he get out of bed, or out of hospital (wherever he was) and show up in court in whatever he was wearing, otherwise he was going to rule contempt of court against him. Not very sympathetic, I would say.

Like I said, these things have been documented in books, for example:

“...David Geffen said that he always knew that Michael was faking … Blanca [Francia], the King’s former maid, has been quoted saying that Michael often pulled these hospital stunts just to see how many gifts and flowers he’d receive…” (Bob Jones, ‘Michael Jackson: The Man Behind The Mask’ book).

The trick that he learned from Elizabeth Taylor (about feigning accidents to get people’s sympathy) was confirmed also by the Canadian investigative journalist Ian Halperin in his ‘Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael Jackson’ book.

I know that you are going to dismiss these things just because they show him in an unfavourable way.

About his tripping and going to the emergency room (on March 10th, 2005), could you explain to me how a man can trip while he is getting dressed and injures himself so badly that he has to go to the emergency room?

Let me remind you here that years ago (in the mid/late ‘80s) Michael Jackson, with the help of his then-manager Frank DiLeo, set up an entire system of planting fake stories to the media and press about him (some of these fake stories appeared also on his ‘Leave Me Alone’ music video).

About Michael Jackson's drinking problem, official documents from the charter company (that showed his drinking problem) are not tabloid stuff.

Also the security guy Michael La Perruque also confirmed his drinking problem.

There is also the statement from Frank Cascio about that:

"Once Michael had broken away from the Jehovah’s witnesses, he was free to enjoy his wine, and he referred to it as “Jesus Juice” as a way of justifying its consumption” (Frank Cascio)

His drinking problem has been corroborated by various people who were close to him.

 

[Electro]

Bob Jones

Frank Cascio

investigative journalist Ian Halperin

Didn't Matt Fiddles, Mark Lester, La Toya, the "Neverland Five", Conrad Murray, investigative journalists like Diane Dimond and Martin Barshir say something as well?
Man, that would make it so much more believeable.
Michael Jacobshagen maybe? He spent all of his life with Michael, he should know.

I know that you are going to dismiss these things just because they show him in an unfavourable way.

How about:
We all know that mj_frency will embrace these things just because they show Michael in an unfavourable way.

You clearly have a very selective view on things.
Most of the people you present as sources have proven themselfes to be agenda driven, lyers and frauds. Please explain to us how you can completely ignore that. Will you also quote Tom Sneddon one day?

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Bob Jones
Frank Cascio
Ian Halperin
Matt Fiddles
Mark Lester
La Toya
Neverland Five
Conrad Murray
Diane Dimond
Martin Barshir
Michael Jacobshagen
Tom Sneddon

Or Victor Gutierrez?
And Maureen Orth?

EDIT: I forgot Ron Zonen, who was actually referred to as a source somewhere upthread. :scream:

 

[Anna]

mj_frenzy, even if you ignore the other dodgy people in your post, Blanca Francia... Really? That is the kind of person you consider a reliable source?

Let's refresh: https://michaeljacksonvindication2....-michael-jacksons-former-maid-blanca-francia/

And regarding the fall, he allegedly slipped in the shower. It's not out of the realm of possibility to injure yourself if that happens. You can certainly argue that the timing is interesting, but without actual proof that it was a stunt we should assume innocence.

Personally, I'm not interested in dismissing things that show Michael in an unfavourable way, I'm open to anything that is backed up with reliable evidence. "Some dodgy people said it or had a feeling, so it must be true" is not evidence. With that logic you might as well believe that Michael is a paedophile.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

I’d like to say this to new fans who may be reading all of this: You have to be very careful who to trust when it comes to stories about Michael.

Michael knew literally thousands of people, he knew more people than most of us will ever even encounter in a lifetime, but most of those who knew him well do not talk to the media much. Most of the people that do talk to the media or write tell-all books do it for profit. But because there are so many books, “documentaries” and articles that repeat the same stories over and over, it’s easy to start believing they’re true. Don’t. Just don’t.

I’m a relatively new fan, and I went through all of this fairly recently. One thing that I’ve learned is to always look at who the person is that makes a claim, what role they played in Michael’s life (if any!), why they fell out with him, and what the actual timeline of events is. If a story passes all these tests, find corroborating evidence and check if it lines up with what other credible people said.

 

[mj_frenzy]

mj_frenzy, even if you ignore the other dodgy people in your post, Blanca Francia... Really? That is the kind of person you consider a reliable source?

Let's refresh: https://michaeljacksonvindication2....-michael-jacksons-former-maid-blanca-francia/

And regarding the fall, he allegedly slipped in the shower. It's not out of the realm of possibility to injure yourself if that happens. You can certainly argue that the timing is interesting, but without actual proof that it was a stunt we should assume innocence.

Personally, I'm not interested in dismissing things that show Michael in an unfavourable way, I'm open to anything that is backed up with reliable evidence. "Some dodgy people said it or had a feeling, so it must be true" is not evidence. With that logic you might as well believe that Michael is a paedophile.

Michael Jackson authorized one of his defense lawyers Brian Oxman to make a brief, public statement about that alleged accident (when they were exiting the court on that day).

So, Brian Oxman, in front of Michael Jackson and other members of the Jackson family, publicly stated that the reason for Michael Jackson’s delay to the court was that he tripped and fell while he was getting dressed and he went to the emergency room (there is also available video for that).

This means that Michael Jackson did not allegedly slipped in the shower.

The timing of that alleged accident is interesting and too convenient for Michael Jackson because that day was probably the most crucial day of the entire trial (the boy Gavin Arvizo was about to testify against him).

 

[ScreenOrigami]

We should not forget that Michael was suffering from Lupus, a disease that comes with a higher fall risk and balance problems during flare ups. During Lupus flare ups, patients may also suffer from clouded memory (so-called “Lupus Fog&#8221, so they may not always recall the exact circumstances that led to the accident.

A study on fall risk among Lupus patients: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6190960/

“Fall risk was found to be higher in SLE patients than in controls. The higher fall risk in these patients seems to be affected by the disease itself rather than its other characteristics.”

 

[Anna]

The timing of that alleged accident is interesting and too convenient for Michael Jackson because that day was probably the most crucial day of the entire trial (the boy Gavin Arvizo was about to testify against him).

It is possible for bad things to happen at unfortunate times. He was certainly under a lot of stress. It's also possible he did it deliberately on a subconscious level. But we will never know. And like I said, there is no proof he faked it, so I think it's only fair to take it for what was presented — an accident.

Also, the nature of your posts and the way you write gives off the impression that you are not actually a fan. And that's not an accusation but it's something that you should be aware of, because as long as you continue with this peculiar attitude it's going to cause friction with other members.

 

[Anna]

We should not forget that Michael was suffering from Lupus, a disease that comes with a higher fall risk and balance problems during flare ups. During Lupus flare ups, patients may also suffer from clouded memory (so-called “Lupus Fog&#8221, so they may not always recall the exact circumstances that led to the accident.

A study on fall risk among Lupus patients: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6190960/

“Fall risk was found to be higher in SLE patients than in controls. The higher fall risk in these patients seems to be affected by the disease itself rather than its other characteristics.”

He had discoid lupus, not systemic.

 

[Electro]

Michael Jackson authorized one of his defense lawyers Brian Oxman to make a brief, public statement about that alleged accident (when they were exiting the court on that day).

So, Brian Oxman, in front of Michael Jackson and other members of the Jackson family, publicly stated that the reason for Michael Jackson’s delay to the court was that he tripped and fell while he was getting dressed and he went to the emergency room (there is also available video for that).

This means that Michael Jackson did not allegedly slipped in the shower.

No, it doesn't mean that. It only means that Brian Oxman SAID that. Get the difference?

How Michael exactly fell was not important in that situation. Do you think Michael, listening to Oxman speak, would jump in and say "No, it was in the shower."?

The same Brian Oxman (who was brought in by Randy Jackson!) later during the trial got fired by Tom Mesereau. According to Roger Friedman because Tom "...thought of him (Oxman) as a jackass who couldn’t keep his mouth shut." https://www.showbiz411.com/2012/07/06/brian-oxman-disbarred-was-once-michael-jackson-lawyer-sort-of

The timing of that alleged accident is interesting and too convenient for Michael Jackson because that day was probably the most crucial day of the entire trial (the boy Gavin Arvizo was about to testify against him).

It's well likely that Michael got extra anxious about this confrontation, so could not sleep / took an extra dose of sedation to get through the day, and thus managed to "trip" and fall, somewhere between getting out of the shower and getting dressed - certainly not by Oxman himself. Insomnia alone can already make you clumsy during daytime. Think in possible favour FOR Michael once!

 

[ScreenOrigami]

He had discoid lupus, not systemic.

He was diagnosed at the time with discoid Lupus. Systemic Lupus is very hard to diagnose because of the unspecific symptoms and the flare up and remission phases.

 

[Anna]

He was diagnosed at the time with discoid Lupus. Systemic Lupus is very hard to diagnose because of the unspecific symptoms and the flare up and remission phases.

Yes, diagnosed. So there's no reason to speculate otherwise.

 

[mj_frenzy]

It is possible for bad things to happen at unfortunate times. He was certainly under a lot of stress. It's also possible he did it deliberately on a subconscious level. But we will never know. And like I said, there is no proof he faked it, so I think it's only fair to take it for what was presented — an accident.

Also, the nature of your posts and the way you write gives off the impression that you are not actually a fan. And that's not an accusation but it's something that you should be aware of, because as long as you continue with this peculiar attitude it's going to cause friction with other members.

One legitimate question that arises is that if his accident was an actual one, then why did he not promptly inform his lead defense lawyer Thomas Mesereau about it?

Thomas Mesereau had no clue at all about his client’s delay to the court (on such a crucial day) and he was searching for him by making frantic phone calls for over an hour.

Anyway, I leave that here, but personally I have serious doubts about it being an actual one, especially considering the day that it happened.