Why was everything out of place/wrong with Invincible?

Dorian

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All I can say is I miss the days of albums having 8 to 10 songs brimming with quality (12 in the 60s as songs were shorter). There was no fat in the 70s to 80s in albums, mostly all quality.
Dunno, Thriller and OTW have their bunch of filler/skippable trax
 

sunrunner

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That's the problem with Invincible, too much filler. Trim the fat and there's a classic album in there;

1. Invincible
2. Break of Dawn
3. Heaven Can Wait
4. You Rock My World
5. Butterflies
6. Speechless
7. Don't Walk Away
8. Cry
9. The Lost Children
10. Whatever Happens


You could argue the same with Dangerous/HIStory
 

thiron

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That's the problem with Invincible, too much filler. Trim the fat and there's a classic album in there;

1. Invincible
2. Break of Dawn
3. Heaven Can Wait
4. You Rock My World
5. Butterflies
6. Speechless
7. Don't Walk Away
8. Cry
9. The Lost Children
10. Whatever Happens


You could argue the same with Dangerous/HIStory
Still too much fat for me ;) for me, most Invincible outtakes are much stronger than half of the stuff on the album.
 

Dorian

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That's the problem with Invincible, too much filler. Trim the fat and there's a classic album in there;

1. Invincible
2. Break of Dawn
3. Heaven Can Wait
4. You Rock My World
5. Butterflies
6. Speechless
7. Don't Walk Away
8. Cry
9. The Lost Children
10. Whatever Happens


You could argue the same with Dangerous/HIStory
I love vince but the lost children and heaven can wait are ass
 

DuranDuran

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How could Mike have so a shitty taste in music?
Is this the same dude who enjoyed classical music?0_0
There's nothing wrong with this song. Hip hop has been the #1 popular genre in the USA for a long time now. There's rappers in many languages all over the world. So of course Mike was likely to know Superthug, it was a hit single. At least N.O.R.E. is a rapper the mainstream radio audience has heard of, unlike whoever Fats is. 😊 What does liking classical music got to do with anything? Flavor Flav from Public Enemy can play classical piano. There's also symphony orchestras who performed with hip hop artists.
 

lubyss

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I just can´t see 2000watts, Privacy, Heartbreaker and Threatened as the "filler"... Best songs on the album... ;) At least for me and that is the beauty of it... Everybody can find its own on the Vince... It is the most skipped album for someone, for me one of the best ones... And yes.. even I skip songs I can´t stand... like You Are My Life (It was a huge mistake to remove Shout for YAML) and Speechles... those two are just too much sweet, just like Childhood...
 

Licinus

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The only song I could do without is Privacy, but even so, I can see that it has its place.
 

Nite Line

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The only song I could do without is Privacy, but even so, I can see that it has its place.
Privacy might just be the worst song Michael released. Lyrically, it is fine but those annoying camera sounds throughout the song, not to mention Michael's heavily processed vocals. Just awful.
 

Mister_Jay_Tee

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Michael Jackson's managers binned these Pharrell Williams' songs, unbeknownst to Michael Jackson.

Pharrell Williams had sent these songs to Michael Jackson's managers (one of them was John McClain), but they did not pass these songs later to Michael Jackson in order for him to hear them and evaluate them for his new album.

Pharrell Williams publicly spoke about that in his interviews.

Just for the story, Michael Jackson wanted (for his new album) a sound similar to the 'Superthug' song:

Yes, this is actually accurate.

You forget that MJ also told Pharrell after he wanted those songs and it was his manager who declined them.
 
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Mister_Jay_Tee

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That's the problem with Invincible, too much filler. Trim the fat and there's a classic album in there;

1. Invincible
2. Break of Dawn
3. Heaven Can Wait
4. You Rock My World
5. Butterflies
6. Speechless
7. Don't Walk Away
8. Cry
9. The Lost Children
10. Whatever Happens


You could argue the same with Dangerous/HIStory
Anyone who gets rid of Unbreakable instantly discredits themselves.
 

Nite Line

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I just wish Michael found a place for We've Had Enough on Invincible. That one song alone would have elevated Invincible to greater heights. But Michael was obsessed with R Kelly and chose to release Cry instead, which although a decent song was nowhere near the level of We've Had Enough.
 

Mister_Jay_Tee

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I just wish Michael found a place for We've Had Enough on Invincible. That one song alone would have elevated Invincible to greater heights. But Michael was obsessed with R Kelly and chose to release Cry instead, which although a decent song was nowhere near the level of We've Had Enough.
R.Kelly gave him his first number 1 debut record.
 

james283126

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Dunno, Thriller and OTW have their bunch of filler/skippable trax
WHAT?! What’s filler on Thriller? One could argue Baby Be Mine and maybe TGIM but even then I strongly disagree! Now OTW I can kind of see where you’re coming from, ITFIL and Girlfriend kinda slow the album down but I still enjoy them.

Now Dangerous, HIStory and Vince had quite a bit of filler. Those albums could have used a firm hand like Quincy to tighten them up because I think those albums are a subconscious product of Michael just rebelling. Bad really just had 3 in my opinion, JGF, Liberian Girl and Speed Demon.
 

RIP_2009

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Bought «Bad» and every album after that on release day and «Invincible» was the only one that I didnt like at all….I still dont.
I play every album ….back to back….every now and then,»Bad» just last week but «Invincible» I havent played in a decade +
 

wonderouzmj

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WHAT?! What’s filler on Thriller? One could argue Baby Be Mine and maybe TGIM but even then I strongly disagree! Now OTW I can kind of see where you’re coming from, ITFIL and Girlfriend kinda slow the album down but I still enjoy them.

Now Dangerous, HIStory and Vince had quite a bit of filler. Those albums could have used a firm hand like Quincy to tighten them up because I think those albums are a subconscious product of Michael just rebelling. Bad really just had 3 in my opinion, JGF, Liberian Girl and Speed Demon.
How dare you call Liberian Girl a filler!!! That is a fckn BEAUTIFUL song! Now if you'd said ijcsly.... then yeah but not lb!
 

mj_frenzy

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MJ was barely present during Invincible; he would produce over the phone or miss studio sessions entirely, and the producers and engineers had to pick up the slack. To me, it seems like he just didn’t want to make an album and put in the bare minimum to get it done.
That was towards the end of the 'Invincible' album sessions, when he started to become disgusted with the whole situation regarding his relationship with his record company, which in turn affected also his approach to that album.

In the early 'Invincible' album sessions, he was very enthusiastic with the whole project of that album.
Yes, this is actually a courage.

You forget that MJ also told Pharrell after he wanted those songs and it was his manager who declined them.
I did not forget that.

I presumed that you were aware of the rest of that story.
Anyone who gets rid of Unbreakable instantly discredits themselves.
'Unbreakable' is nothing special.

As a matter of fact, it sounds like a sped-up version of the 'Unbelievable' song (released by American rapper The Notorious B.I.G. in 1994).
I just wish Michael found a place for We've Had Enough on Invincible. That one song alone would have elevated Invincible to greater heights. But Michael was obsessed with R Kelly and chose to release Cry instead, which although a decent song was nowhere near the level of We've Had Enough.
It appears that Sony Music was obsessed with R. Kelly, not Michael Jackson.

According to press reports at that time, when Michael Jackson submitted to Sony Music some of his first songs that he completed for the 'Invincible' album, the record company decided to keep 'Cry' because they believed that it would be a song that had huge potential for chart success.

Their decision made a lot of sense, because during those years R. Kelly had the Midas touch as his singles used to become chart toppers.

Especially considering that R. Kelly, in 1996, released his most successful single by that time (i.e., 'I Believe I Can Fly').
 

Mister_Jay_Tee

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That doesn’t mean anything. YANA wasn’t the greatest song to begin with.
I'm not saying it was but it does something.
And with cry he gave him his biggest flop single since the Motown years. The circle is full
It didn't flop because it was barely a single. Certainly not in the states.

But the song is pretty contemporary. As more travesties occur daily and we all sit horrified, crying out in outrage, well, that's super relevant. If we all cry, at the same time, indeed.

Same for horrible attacks on schools and The Lost Children. MJ was ahead of the game still.
 
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