Word to the Badd!

[Music&Me]

I really don't like to speculate about the interpersonal dynamics within the Jackson family, but the lyrics of this song are so intense that it just calls for it. One thing that seems almost certain from my observations is that members seem to repress ill or mixed feelings they might be harboring against another. Since they're admittedly really not a family to discuss openly issues that might be going on, it comes out in forms like this one, which is downright explosive.

This song was not just written because Michael didn't return his phone calls; this is some stuff that was bottled up in him for years. It's hostile on all levels. There's nothing kind, gentle, or loving about those lyrics at all, contrary to how Jermaine projects himself and his relationship to Michael being most of the time. As is also evident by this alleged book with Stacy Brown, I think Jermaine had (or has, perhaps?) a ton of mixed feelings about his brother that he chose, it seems, to hide or deny.

 

[mspennyloafer]

Jealousy is normal. Hell, if Michael were my brother I'd be jealous of him too. I think Jermaine and Joe were both jealous of him to varying degrees. Michael was the *cute* one and extremely charismatic on stage, that will get you far.

 

[OU812]

Jealousy is normal. Hell, if Michael were my brother I'd be jealous of him too. I think Jermaine and Joe were both jealous of him to varying degrees. Michael was the *cute* one and extremely charismatic on stage, that will get you far.

Glad somebody had the courage to "go there." Let's face it: Jermaine has never gotten over the fact that his 5-year old brother was so talented that Joe and Katherine rightfully recognized who the lead guy was. The J5 and frankly, the history of pop music was about to rocked with that one fateful decision.

Jermaine never got over his bitterness. He's a liar and I would not be surprised if he did say bad things about Jackson.

As for the "backbone" comment? Whatever. When you won't face your brother who comes to you like a man to deal with an issue, Michael Jackson,not Jermaine is the one with the backbone. Backbone is about paying your bills. Jermaine needs to remember that the house he sleeps in with his 11,000 children was financed by Michael Jackson.

By the way, I'm a big Jermaine Jackson fan.

 

[HIStory]

I don't think it's that Jermaine has less talent on a musical scale per se.

I disagree with that. Jermaine is a good singer with a pleasant voice, but no more. Michael was so much more than that. Dancing, entertaining, songwriting - that's all part of his talent.

I'm not saying only artists who can sing AND dance AND write GREAT songs are great artists, there are who can do just one of these and they are still great artists, but if somebody, like Michael, can do it all on the level Michael did, I won't say that Jermaine is just as talented because I simply do not feel it to be true, sorry.

I think if Jermaine was such a great talent that he could have messed with Michael then he should have! So simple. He went solo first, he made his solo albums. They are nothing special compared to Michael's works. Let's face it: he was never as creative or unique and special as Michael was.

 

[Redridinghood]

The more interviews I see and read, the more I think the Jackson family are seriously mucked up.

They keep going on about how close they are but I don't think they are at all really. When the sh*t hits the fan they pull together, like most families would do, but the things that have been said over the years would never have been said by a family that truly and deeply loves each other and has each others best interests at heart.

I know Latoya was under duress when she made all those nasty accusations against Michael and Joe, but seriously?! Would YOU say your brother and father were sexual abusers if you were in a bad situation. I would rather die than accuse anyone innocent of that.

And as for Jermaine, writing that song and letting it go public is one of the most disgusting things I have witnessed from the family. He knew about the vitiligo, he said so in a family interview, so why would he fuel the media's lies about skin bleaching?

I have severe issues with my family, I have been estranged from my father and 2 half brothers for just over a year and it breaks my heart everyday. I love them but I cannot have them in my life because they lie and hurt people. But I would never wash our dirty laundry in public. I think the Jackson family should keep their mouths shut.

sorry, I am furious and need to vent!

 

[mbe]

Talent has very little to do with success. That's why Pat Boone could sell more by remaking Little Richard songs than Richard did himself. Milli Vanilli could sell 12 million albums and not sing at all. The Archies & Alvin and the Chipmunks had hits and they don't really exist. Elvis is the King when basically using Jackie Wilson's vocal style. Music success has more to do with payola and which labels have enough to pay it. Talent helps with a having a long term career, but isn't required to sell. Today there's Lil Wayne & Soulja Boy who have no talent who sell big today.

Elvis and Jackie Wilson were friends and besides Jackie wasn't big until 1958 Elvis had years of hits already. Glad you are sticking up for Jermaine

 

[abc123]

I know Latoya was under duress when she made all those nasty accusations against Michael and Joe, but seriously?! Would YOU say your brother and father were sexual abusers if you were in a bad situation. I would rather die than accuse anyone innocent of that.

LaToya was not only mentally and physically abused - she was also forced into taking drugs by that pig that made it easier to control her and make her do the things he wanted her to do. I wouldn't be too hard on LaToya, she spend 10 years in hell with that guy.

 

[mbe]

LaToya was not only mentally and physically abused - she was also forced into taking drugs by that pig that made it easier to control her and make her do the things he wanted her to do. I wouldn't be too hard on LaToya, she spend 10 years in hell with that guy.

Right on
You know about the song. It is a good song because it feels real. I don't think it should have come out (in fact it didn't offically in the USA.) but I understand what he's saying. I think Michael had a heart of gold, but I don't think he was perfect. Jermaine was a creative person and this is how he vented. Look Jermaine has more then made up for any of his errors in recent years. Since 1993 Michael never did have a better supporter. I think the Stacy Brown book didn't happen because Jermaine found out what a creep he is. The sad thing is about all the Jacksons is that their mistakes are never forgotten.One last thing Michael forgave so why shouldn't we?

As far as talent, how many Michael Jackson's were there? Of course the others weren't on his level but man they were good. I still think Michael was at his best when he played off his brothers. The harmonies, the interplay on stage, they kept him real. Hey I love some of his later stuff but I guess I am just a fan of groups and the way they interact.

 

[Redridinghood]

Right on
You know about the song. It is a good song because it feels real. I don't think it should have come out (in fact it didn't offically in the USA.) but I understand what he's saying. I think Michael had a heart of gold, but I don't think he was perfect. Jermaine was a creative person and this is how he vented. Look Jermaine has more then made up for any of his errors in recent years. Since 1993 Michael never did have a better supporter. I think the Stacy Brown book didn't happen because Jermaine found out what a creep he is. The sad thing is about all the Jacksons is that their mistakes are never forgotten.One last thing Michael forgave so why shouldn't we?

As far as talent, how many Michael Jackson's were there? Of course the others weren't on his level but man they were good. I still think Michael was at his best when he played off his brothers. The harmonies, the interplay on stage, they kept him real. Hey I love some of his later stuff but I guess I am just a fan of groups and the way they interact.

Yes we should forgive them, but we should also be wary of believing everything they say, imo.

 

[MJJs Soulmate xo]

I can't believe that question! Did you know that Jermaine, when Michael replaced him as the Jackson 5 front man, got jealous of Michael and- in order to put him down- insulted his looks? Did you know that Jermaine used to be REALLY JEALOUS of Michael's success? Did you know that Jermaine wanted to write a book wih Stacy Brown (a well known MJ hater)? Did you know that Jermaine does everything in order to appear in the media at his brother's expense? Did you know that Jermaine had a relationship with Randy's former wife? Oh...come on: let's wake up. Jermaine used to be jealous of Michael and tried to put him down. Don't be so naive. That is just Jermaine's side of the story.

Jermaine, Latoya and Joe are pratically the same personality wise.

Exactly! I agree 100%.:clapping:

 

[ParisKatherine]

wow. the man and the myth

 

[DuranDuran]

I disagree with that. Jermaine is a good singer with a pleasant voice, but no more. Michael was so much more than that. Dancing, entertaining, songwriting - that's all part of his talent.

I'm not saying only artists who can sing AND dance AND write GREAT songs are great artists, there are who can do just one of these and they are still great artists, but if somebody, like Michael, can do it all on the level Michael did, I won't say that Jermaine is just as talented because I simply do not feel it to be true, sorry.

I think if Jermaine was such a great talent that he could have messed with Michael then he should have! So simple. He went solo first, he made his solo albums. They are nothing special compared to Michael's works. Let's face it: he was never as creative or unique and special as Michael was.

Jermaine can do things that Mike can't. Like Prince, Jermaine can play several instruments. Jermaine was also a songwriter like Michael. Again, success has to do with payola & management and that's it, not talent. Jermaine was just on the wrong label which didn't have the means to get him out there. Michael and Janet had better managers than Jermaine, who most likely had the Motown house management who was in cahoots with ripoff Berry Gordy. Janet earlier records were not successful because she was still using Joe as a manager, not because of the material. Janet's 1st album is just as good and maybe better than Madonna's 1st album (which came out around the same time), but as Madonna had better people behind her, it went multi-platinum. Janet was somewhat known (as an actress) and Madonna was completely unknown. Janet dumped Joe after her 2nd album, and guess what she blew up. If Jermaine had competent people behind him, he could have been bigger than he was. If Michael had kept Joe as a manager, he wouldn't have been big either. He probably would have been stuck in the R&B market like Jermaine, Peabo Bryson, Freddie Jackson, or Luther Vandross

 

[ParisKatherine]

lol stop trying to say Jermaine is just as talented as Michael. We've all watched the Jackson 5 performances and Jermaine is pretty much dead in the eyes when he's on stage. Does not have raw performance talent. Maybe he has musical talent via the instruments but not performance talent to captivate the world. Michael was a special one.

 

[DuranDuran]

Elvis and Jackie Wilson were friends and besides Jackie wasn't big until 1958 Elvis had years of hits already. Glad you are sticking up for Jermaine

Jackie being popular with the public has nothing to do with Elvis seeing him. Elvis has said many times that he used to see Jackie when he was a lead singer with the group Billy Ward & the Dominoes. This was before Elvis hit it big.

lol stop trying to say Jermaine is just as talented as Michael. We've all watched the Jackson 5 performances and Jermaine is pretty much dead in the eyes when he's on stage. Does not have raw performance talent. Maybe he has musical talent via the instruments but not performance talent to captivate the world. Michael was a special one.

Frank Sinatra was popular and he didn't "perform" either.

 

[HIStory]

Jermaine can do things that Mike can't. Like Prince, Jermaine can play several instruments. Jermaine was also a songwriter like Michael. Again, success has to do with payola & management and that's it, not talent. Jermaine was just on the wrong label which didn't have the means to get him out there. Michael and Janet had better managers than Jermaine, who most likely had the Motown house management who was in cahoots with ripoff Berry Gordy. Janet earlier records were not successful because she was still using Joe as a manager, not because of the material. Janet's 1st album is just as good and maybe better than Madonna's 1st album (which came out around the same time), but as Madonna had better people behind her, it went multi-platinum. Janet was somewhat known (as an actress) and Madonna was completely unknown. Janet dumped Joe after her 2nd album, and guess what she blew up. If Jermaine had competent people behind him, he could have been bigger than he was. If Michael had kept Joe as a manager, he wouldn't have been big either. He probably would have been stuck in the R&B market like Jermaine, Peabo Bryson, Freddie Jackson, or Luther Vandross

So Michael was only more successful than Jermaine because he had better managers? LOL! Oh well, if that's what you want to believe, feel free to do so, but not many people will agree with you and not just on a Michael Jackson board....

So what if Jermaine played instruments? My father plays instruments too, but I wouldn't call him an as talented musician as Michael because of that. It's the complete package that matters. And natural talent that shines through no matter what. Michael had a lot more of that than Jermaine.

 

[OU812]

Jermaine can play several instruments, including the tabloid media. Michael Jackson was a walking instrument. Game over. I'm beginning to wonder if Dr. Murray didn't inject Dipridumb onto this message board.

 

[Music&Me]

I'd like to argue, in a non-judgmental way, that Jermaine didn't love the work, the business of making music and entertaining as much as Michael. Sure, Jermaine was talented, but did he love his craft enough to put in the hours upon hours of hard work, discipline and sacrifice it required to improve upon his gifts, to be the best? I don't think so.

That's a key difference as well.

 

[abc123]

So Michael was only more successful than Jermaine because he had better managers? LOL! Oh well, if that's what you want to believe, feel free to do so, but not many people will agree with you and not just on a Michael Jackson board....

DuranDuran has a point that management, songwriters (if you depend on other people's compositions), producers and so on can have a major impact on an artist's career. In fact, it can mean the difference between stardom and obscurity, especially when it comes to tier two talent. So, although I think that Jermaine has done ok for himself I think he possibly could have been bigger with better management, but there's no way he could ever have been as big as Michael because there's nothing that's really unique about him. The Searchers could never have been as big as the Beatles either. Management plays a part, there's no doubt about that, but when all is said and done the Beatles were simply better.

 

[ParisKatherine]

Frank Sinatra was popular and he didn't "perform" either.

Frank Sinatra was from a different era. With the increased ownership of televisions, people wanted to see great performers. That was Michael. What about his originality? Michael has always been a pioneer, i didn't see Jermaine doing anything different in his music vids...

 

[DuranDuran]

So Michael was only more successful than Jermaine because he had better managers? LOL! Oh well, if that's what you want to believe, feel free to do so, but not many people will agree with you and not just on a Michael Jackson board....

So what if Jermaine played instruments? My father plays instruments too, but I wouldn't call him an as talented musician as Michael because of that. It's the complete package that matters. And natural talent that shines through no matter what. Michael had a lot more of that than Jermaine.

The general public doesn't know how the industry works, so of course they're going to say that talent wins out. I didn't say that Jermaine is more talented than Mike, but that if Michael didn't have the right people backing him, he wouldn't have been big as he was. Joe himself admitted this with his infamous "white help" comment in the 1980s. Also, the J5 became popular on Motown, a label with more money & connections than Steeltown. Explain Madonna & Janet then. Lisa Stansfield or Anita Baker are better singers than Janet & Madonna. How come they're not more popular? How is it that Ciara or Britney Spears is more popular than Jill Scott or Shanice Wilson? Why is Chris Brown & Justin Timberlake more popular than Eric Benet or Raul Midon? Why is Soulja Boy popular at all? How can he outsell a B.B. King album? Because they have a good people with money behind them. How come jazz & classical isn't popular? There's plenty of jazz artists more talented than the average pop act.

 

[HIStory]

DuranDuran has a point that management, songwriters (if you depend on other people's compositions), producers and so on can have a major impact on an artist's career. In fact, it can mean the difference between stardom and obscurity, especially when it comes to tier two talent. So, although I think that Jermaine has done ok for himself I think he possibly could have been bigger with better management, but there's no way he could ever have been as big as Michael because there's nothing that's really unique about him. The Searchers could never have been as big as the Beatles either. Management plays a part, there's no doubt about that, but when all is said and done the Beatles were simply better.

Sure, I realize that in showbusiness you can sell poor acts by good PR (just see most of today's young artists....) and a good act can fail on lack of PR. But in case of Jermaine vs. Michael it's really not PR and managers that made Michael win this one.

It's also a good saying that the cream always rises to the top. Well, maybe not always, but most of the time. Michael had such a talent that he always managed to gather the best people around himself in the industry.

 

[HIStory]

The general public doesn't know how the industry works, so of course they're going to say that talent wins out. I didn't say that Jermaine is more talented than Mike, but that if Michael didn't have the right people backing him, he wouldn't have been big as he was. Joe himself admitted this with his infamous "white help" comment in the 1980s. Also, the J5 became popular on Motown, a label with more money & connections than Steeltown. Explain Madonna & Janet then. Lisa Stansfield or Anita Baker are better singers than Janet & Madonna. How come they're not more popular? How is it that Ciara or Britney Spears is more popular than Jill Scott or Shanice Wilson? Why is Chris Brown & Justin Timberlake more popular than Eric Benet or Raul Midon? Why is Soulja Boy popular at all? How can he outsell a B.B. King album? Because they have a good people with money behind them. How come jazz & classical isn't popular? There's plenty of jazz artists more talented than the average pop act.

I don't really care about Madonna and Janet. The thread is not about them and for your information, I don't like either of them, I will take Anita Baker any day over them. Or BB King over Justin Timberlake. As I said I realize that selling albums is not everything.

But this thread is about Jermaine vs. Michael. Forget sales, just listen to their music, watch their creativity in every area. In their case Michael was rightfully the more successful one. Just because someone is more successful than the other it doesn't mean it has to be necessarily because of managers and PR and stuff. Sometimes the better act IS more successful. In Michael's and Jermaine's case that's the way it is.

 

[DuranDuran]

Sure, I realize that in showbusiness you can sell poor acts by good PR (just see most of today's young artists....) and a good act can fail on lack of PR. But in case of Jermaine vs. Michael it's really not PR and managers that made Michael win this one.

It's also a good saying that the cream always rises to the top. Well, maybe not always, but most of the time. Michael had such a talent that he always managed to gather the best people around himself in the industry.

That's what I've been trying to say all this time. No matter how much talent Mike had, with incompetent people around him (such as Papa Joe) he wouldn't have made it. You see what happened with Mike's career when he got rid of good people and hired a bunch of leeches.

 

[HIStory]

That's what I've been trying to say all this time. No matter how much talent Mike had, with incompetent people around him (such as Papa Joe) he wouldn't have made it. You see what happened with Mike's career when he got rid of good people and hired a bunch of leeches.

No, what you were trying to say was that the only difference between Jermaine and Michael was the people around them. And that is simply not true.

Let's take the Jacksons Variety. A cheesy, poor show. Yet, you see Mike's natural talent shine even through that. I like to watch those shows on YouTube just because of his talent. His siblings had talent too, but it's Mike who grabs your attention all over and over and over again. He didn't have Quincy or Bruce around him yet. It was just him and his talent in a basically poor show. But he made it enjoyable with that talent! I have never seen something like that in Jermaine, sorry.

 

[mspennyloafer]

I think it's easy to downplay the performance act of it, but even in motown michael stood out. and if it is all pr work, then michael actually had the drive and initiative to break way from his former crutches. theres something to be said for that too.

 

[mspennyloafer]

Let's take the Jacksons Variety. A cheesy, poor show. Yet, you see Mike's natural talent shine even through that.

exactly, or the Wiz for me. Not a great movie, but Michael's great in it.

 

[abc123]

The general public doesn't know how the industry works, so of course they're going to say that talent wins out. I didn't say that Jermaine is more talented than Mike, but that if Michael didn't have the right people backing him, he wouldn't have been big as he was. Joe himself admitted this with his infamous "white help" comment in the 1980s. Also, the J5 became popular on Motown, a label with more money & connections than Steeltown. Explain Madonna & Janet then. Lisa Stansfield or Anita Baker are better singers than Janet & Madonna. How come they're not more popular? How is it that Ciara or Britney Spears is more popular than Jill Scott or Shanice Wilson? Why is Chris Brown & Justin Timberlake more popular than Eric Benet or Raul Midon? Why is Soulja Boy popular at all? How can he outsell a B.B. King album? Because they have a good people with money behind them. How come jazz & classical isn't popular? There's plenty of jazz artists more talented than the average pop act.

You make a very good point, but it's not the only one that decides the commercial succes of an artist. Just because someone has a better voice than somebody else doesn't necessarily mean that he or she is a better artist. It's about the total package. Say, Bob Dylan has technically speaking an awful voice but it doesn't matter. His work is a lot more interesting than the music of a lot of artists that have the voice of an angel. The genre in which an artist is active also plays a major role. A genius in classical music or jazz is unlikely to sell as many records as an average talent in pop because classical music and jazz are genres that are too complicated for the average person.

Obviously this is a topic with many sides to it and you can't point your finger at any one aspect of it and say, "this is it!" It's a combination of things.

 

[DuranDuran]

I don't really care about Madonna and Janet. The thread is not about them and for your information, I don't like either of them, I will take Anita Baker any day over them. Or BB King over Justin Timberlake. As I said I realize that selling albums is not everything.

But this thread is about Jermaine vs. Michael. Forget sales, just listen to their music, watch their creativity in every area. In their case Michael was rightfully the more successful one. Just because someone is more successful than the other it doesn't mean it has to be necessarily because of managers and PR and stuff. Sometimes the better act IS more successful. In Michael's and Jermaine's case that's the way it is.

I have all of Michael's & Jermaine's albums (and all of Janet's & Rebbie's too). I think Jermaine's Motown albums are good, and he had more input into them. His Arista albums aren't particularly good, because Clive Davis was trying to make him a male Whitney Houston. You say that his thread isn't about Madonna or Janet, it's not about who has more talent or who is the most creative between Mike & Jermaine either. It's about the lyrics to "Word To The Badd". Which has to do with their personal relationship.

 

[DuranDuran]

No, what you were trying to say was that the only difference between Jermaine and Michael was the people around them. And that is simply not true.

Let's take the Jacksons Variety. A cheesy, poor show. Yet, you see Mike's natural talent shine even through that. I like to watch those shows on YouTube just because of his talent. His siblings had talent too, but it's Mike who grabs your attention all over and over and over again. He didn't have Quincy or Bruce around him yet. It was just him and his talent in a basically poor show. But he made it enjoyable with that talent! I have never seen something like that in Jermaine, sorry.

But at the time they weren't selling records. If they were, there wouldn't have been a show in the 1st place. You didn't see Led Zepplin, the Bee Gees, Fleetwood Mac, Stevie Wonder, or Pink Floyd doing a variety show. It was acts like the Jacksons, Donny & Marie, Cher, Captain & Tennille, Andy Williams, etc. The Jackson family was performing in Vegas, which at the time was a place for acts whose shelf life had expired like Englebert Humperdinck, Wayne Newton, Liberace, & Elvis Presley. Acts whose popularity in selling records had floundered. Dancing & performing doesn't sell records (at least not during that time). Also the show didn't last long because of poor ratings (and there were a bunch of these type of shows by other acts, which cancel each other out). This show was Joe's idea to get exposure. Michael didn't want to do it. So behind the scenes help is more important than talent. A good manager works for the artist, not the other way around. Since Joe is their father, they kinda had to do to what he said. The family was working for Joe. A manager doesn't go home and whip them for refusing to do something.

 

[Blackcat]

Once you were made
You changed your shade
Was your color wrong?
Could not turn back
It's a known fact

???
You can't tell me he didn't know about vitiligo...I mean seriously..a brother has to know something like that, it can't be that they don't discuss these things..

But meanwhile, I continue to smile, cause in the back of my head,
I know you're still a child
You say that your a man, but that will never be
(cant figure out what the rest says)

Gone too far, ya better turn back, I know who you are
You know where Im at, sad but its true, from me to you.
Pick up the phone, Dont be alone, step off the throne, come back home.

Seriously I never heard of this song until now..
But whatever family problems there may be, the world doesn't have to know it.