Xscape General Discussion

[shades]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I hate to say this, and I really don't want to take anyone's excitement away. Excitement of a new album is one of the best parts of being a fan. So please see this as my personal opinion. But what I heard of Timbelands versions of Slave to the Rhytm; the song is a complete mess of colliding sounds. It misses the sharpness of an MJ song. The original is way better, and I do not understand for the life of me, why producers want to put their stamp so much on a song and make it their own. Let the song speak for itself! It was strong, the way it was. Why the strings? Why fastening the beat? It just doesn't make sense.

Sorry for the rant. And if this is already in a different forum also my apologies; I couldn't find it.

I just have to get this off my chest.

 

[shades]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Cheater is a LOT better song IMO than Scared of the Moon. Of course, everyone has their opinion, but definitely not a filler to me.

I actually like Scared of the Moon. I like the simplicity of it. I hate this bombastic interpretations of the songs. The lyrics of the song are beatiful. One of Michael's finest. (Being scared of the moon btw, is an actual psychological disorder. Just saying...)

 

[Dorian]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I hate to say this, and I really don't want to take anyone's excitement away. Excitement of a new album is one of the best parts of being a fan. So please see this as my personal opinion. But what I heard of Timbelands versions of Slave to the Rhytm; the song is a complete mess of colliding sounds. It misses the sharpness of an MJ song. The original is way better, and I do not understand for the life of me, why producers want to put their stamp so much on a song and make it their own. Let the song speak for itself! It was strong, the way it was. Why the strings? Why fastening the beat? It just doesn't make sense.

Sorry for the rant. And if this is already in a different forum also my apologies; I couldn't find it.

I just have to get this off my chest.

Stopped reading here.

 

[jonathan1luna]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I hate to say this, and I really don't want to take anyone's excitement away. Excitement of a new album is one of the best parts of being a fan. So please see this as my personal opinion. But what I heard of Timbelands versions of Slave to the Rhytm; the song is a complete mess of colliding sounds. It misses the sharpness of an MJ song. The original is way better, and I do not understand for the life of me, why producers want to put their stamp so much on a song and make it their own. Let the song speak for itself! It was strong, the way it was. Why the strings? Why fastening the beat? It just doesn't make sense.

Sorry for the rant. And if this is already in a different forum also my apologies; I couldn't find it.

I just have to get this off my chest.

Original version? Nobody ever heard the original version remains unreleased. The version that leaked in 2010 was crafted by another producer (do not remember the name) and he said that the instrumental was different from DEMO.

 

[shades]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Why does everyone like Blue Gangster ?

For (the original) is a damn good song. Especially when his voice drifts over the melody line. Wow... That is the Michael I fell in love with musically...

 

[shades]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Original version? Nobody ever heard the original version remains unreleased. The version that leaked in 2010 was crafted by another producer (do not remember the name) and he said that the instrumental was different from DEMO.

You'right, I meant demo. I think the version that got released than (the demo) was closer to the sound that MJ was going for. I think, personally, that this song is genius. The lyrics strengthen the monotony of the beat; it is the whole theme of the song. Going through the motions, sticking to the rhytm, disappearing by the rhytm. It is one of the few club songs (in the traditional sense) that MJ made. It was not a collisions of strings and cow bells. And relax people; it is ok not to like a song. This says nothing about MJ; it says something about overproduction. Its just one of these moments that I truly miss his genius and that you start to see his influence on songs in hindsight. It makes me wonder how many times he actually influenced his producers, even called them back and went back to the core of the song and not being credited for it.

Besides being a singer, an entertainer, a dancer, IMO, MJ was one of the best *composers* of the 20th century. Its unfortunate that this element of his talent is not easily recognized or blatantly ignored. He was a great arranger and made his music crystal clear. I missed that in the snipped I heard.

 

[jonathan1luna]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

You'right, I meant demo. I think the version that got released than (the demo) was closer to the sound that MJ was going for. I think, personally, that this song is genius. The lyrics strengthen the monotony of the beat; it is the whole theme of the song. Going through the motions, sticking to the rhytm, disappearing by the rhytm. It is one of the few club songs (in the traditional sense) that MJ made. It was not a collisions of strings and cow bells. And relax people; it is ok not to like a song. This says nothing about MJ; it says something about overproduction. Its just one of these moments that I truly miss his genius and that you start to see his influence on songs in hindsight. It makes me wonder how many times he actually influenced his producers, even called them back and went back to the core of the song and not being credited for it.

Besides being a singer, an entertainer, a dancer, IMO, MJ was one of the best *composers* of the 20th century. Its unfortunate that this element of his talent is not easily recognized or blatantly ignored. He was a great arranger and made his music crystal clear. I missed that in the snipped I heard.

Can not know, no one ever heard the demo.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I hate to say this, and I really don't want to take anyone's excitement away. Excitement of a new album is one of the best parts of being a fan. So please see this as my personal opinion. But what I heard of Timbelands versions of Slave to the Rhytm; the song is a complete mess of colliding sounds. It misses the sharpness of an MJ song. The original is way better, and I do not understand for the life of me, why producers want to put their stamp so much on a song and make it their own. Let the song speak for itself! It was strong, the way it was. Why the strings? Why fastening the beat? It just doesn't make sense.

Sorry for the rant. And if this is already in a different forum also my apologies; I couldn't find it.

I just have to get this off my chest.

Oh man, i don't know how many times this has been stated here, (Alwaysthere can attest to this), but here we go again. Tricky stewarts himself said that he discarded the orginal song completely and made his own version based around his vocals. Tricky stewarts version has nothing to do with MJ's version at all. It's a mediocre and bland attempt at a house track and the only thing, i repeat only thing somewhat saving Tricky Stewarts version is MJ's vocals. Now i know these are opinions, but it is my opinion, that it's a fact that Tricky Stewart's Mix is bad.

It is one of the few club songs (in the traditional sense) that MJ made.

Lol, what? This song was made in 1989 and i can almost guarantee you that the original demo is nowhere near a "club" song. My friend it's okay to like the mix Tricky Stewart did, i bet a lot of people like it, but that version is nowhere near the original demo from 1989, that you can believe.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I hate to say this, and I really don't want to take anyone's excitement away. Excitement of a new album is one of the best parts of being a fan. So please see this as my personal opinion. But what I heard of Timbelands versions of Slave to the Rhytm; the song is a complete mess of colliding sounds. It misses the sharpness of an MJ song. The original is way better, and I do not understand for the life of me, why producers want to put their stamp so much on a song and make it their own. Let the song speak for itself! It was strong, the way it was. Why the strings? Why fastening the beat? It just doesn't make sense.

Sorry for the rant. And if this is already in a different forum also my apologies; I couldn't find it.

I just have to get this off my chest.

You never even heard the original!

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Oh man, i don't know how many times this has been stated here, (Alwaysthere can attest to this), but here we go again.

Oh my friend, how many times are people going to call the Tricky version the original version?! if the song has JUST leaked I would get it, but this is three or four years old. The leaked version is terrible to be quite honest; the Michael Jackson vibe is not there. The Timbaland version is phenomenal as far as I'm concerned. It still isn't 100% MJ but it's closer than the Tricky version, and anyone can agree.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

You'right, I meant demo. I think the version that got released than (the demo) was closer to the sound that MJ was going for. I think, personally, that this song is genius. The lyrics strengthen the monotony of the beat; it is the whole theme of the song. Going through the motions, sticking to the rhytm, disappearing by the rhytm. It is one of the few club songs (in the traditional sense) that MJ made. It was not a collisions of strings and cow bells. And relax people; it is ok not to like a song. This says nothing about MJ; it says something about overproduction. Its just one of these moments that I truly miss his genius and that you start to see his influence on songs in hindsight. It makes me wonder how many times he actually influenced his producers, even called them back and went back to the core of the song and not being credited for it.

Besides being a singer, an entertainer, a dancer, IMO, MJ was one of the best *composers* of the 20th century. Its unfortunate that this element of his talent is not easily recognized or blatantly ignored. He was a great arranger and made his music crystal clear. I missed that in the snipped I heard.

Slave To The Rhythm is unreleased song so there is no "version that got released" and no "demo". Leaked 2010 version is produced by Tricky Stewart and he completly destroyed and changed Michael's original production. He said that in an interview. That techno mix is no way closer to the sound that MJ was going for. MJ would never go that way with that song, it's just not techno/club song. The original song is probably late '80 sound/New jack swing. So it's not "one of the few club songs that MJ made", it just a remix, and a very poor one (that's why it didn't get picked for MICHAEL album and we all know which songs made it to that album!).

 

[coffre]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Lol, what? This song was made in 1989 and i can almost guarantee you that the original demo is nowhere near a "club" song. My friend it's okay to like the mix Tricky Stewart did, i bet a lot of people like it, but that version is nowhere near the original demo from 1989, that you can believe.

is it proved that the original (1989) recording is just in a demo state?

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

is it proved that the original (1989) recording is just in a demo state?

Well, probably a "Michael Jackson Demo", but for the rest of the world it equates to a finished song.

 

[APOM]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I hate to say this, and I really don't want to take anyone's excitement away. Excitement of a new album is one of the best parts of being a fan. So please see this as my personal opinion. But what I heard of Timbelands versions of Slave to the Rhytm; the song is a complete mess of colliding sounds. It misses the sharpness of an MJ song. The original is way better, and I do not understand for the life of me, why producers want to put their stamp so much on a song and make it their own. Let the song speak for itself! It was strong, the way it was. Why the strings? Why fastening the beat? It just doesn't make sense.

Sorry for the rant. And if this is already in a different forum also my apologies; I couldn't find it.

I just have to get this off my chest.

Ignoring shades' small error of referring to the leaked Tricky Stewart version as an original MJ demo -- an error that I *think* has been corrected by enough people now, no? -- this does actually open up an interesting dialogue regarding posthumous MJ releases.

For example -- for me, the only two tracks on Michael that sounded like something he would have released were (I Like) The Way You Love Me and Best of Joy -- none of the other songs even came close to the quality and polish of the material on OTW, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, HIStory, BotDF and Invincible, and end up just sounding... "off". As a result I find myself rarely listening to anything from that album other than those two tracks, and actually prefer the demo's from Bad 25, or leaked demo's like Blue Gangsta and A Place with No Name, because I *know* that what I'm hearing is music that came directly from MJ. Even though it's unfinished / work in progress, the knowledge that it hasn't been tampered with makes all the difference.

Now, Dr. Freeze mentioned in an interview last year that the new album will have two versions of each track -- the original MJ demo's and the new Timbaland etc. produced versions -- which, if true, would be absolutely awesome because it will give us a point of reference for each song and let us decide for ourselves if the producers succeeded in (more or less) completing MJ's vision, or if they just took it in a completely different direction of their own choosing. For me, not having the original demo's of the material on the Michael album still hurts its appeal in a big way, which is a real shame.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I also think 1989 version of Slave is not a Demo. Maybe some demos also exists, but these vocals they are working with are no way from a demo. Those are proper studio vocals considered for final release (Same goes for Do You Know Where Your Children Are). It is just wrong to call it a demo. It is Original Version. Just like Another Day, Hold My Hand, Much Too Soon, The Way You Love Me, A Place With No Name, Blue Gangsta. Those Are not demos. Hollywood Tonight is an example of demo recording.

 

[coffre]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Ignoring shades' small error of referring to the leaked Tricky Stewart version as an original MJ demo -- an error that I *think* has been corrected by enough people now, no? -- this does actually open up an interesting dialogue regarding posthumous MJ releases.

For example -- for me, the only two tracks on Michael that sounded like something he would have released were (I Like) The Way You Love Me and Best of Joy -- none of the other songs even came close to the quality and polish of the material on OTW, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, HIStory, BotDF and Invincible, and end up just sounding... "off". As a result I find myself rarely listening to anything from that album other than those two tracks, and actually prefer the demo's from Bad 25, or leaked demo's like Blue Gangsta and A Place with No Name, because I *know* that what I'm hearing is music that came directly from MJ. Even though it's unfinished / work in progress, the knowledge that it hasn't been tampered with makes all the difference.

Now, Dr. Freeze mentioned in an interview last year that the new album will have two versions of each track -- the original MJ demo's and the new Timbaland etc. produced versions -- which, if true, would be absolutely awesome because it will give us a point of reference for each song and let us decide for ourselves if the producers succeeded in (more or less) completing MJ's vision, or if they just took it in a completely different direction of their own choosing. For me, not having the original demo's of the material on the Michael album still hurts its appeal in a big way, which is a real shame.

That's because Neff-U was the only person that was involved to the MICHAEL project who did care about music and who respected MJs artistic vision. The others have acted selfished and have enjoyed the opportunity of being in the spotlight

 

[Dorian]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

That's because Neff-U was the only person that was involved to the MICHAEL project who did care about music and who respected MJs artistic vision. The others have acted selfished and have enjoyed the opportunity of being in the spotlight

There are actually a lot of people hate the way "The Way You Love Me" was altered and the autotune on "Best Of Joy".

 

[APOM]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

That's because Neff-U was the only person that was involved to the MICHAEL project who did care about music and who respected MJs artistic vision. The others have acted selfished and have enjoyed the opportunity of being in the spotlight

Heh, yeah that was more or less my conclusion. The thing is, we have no point of reference for a lot of the material, so it's very hard to tell.

Edit:

Dorian -- IMO Neff-U stayed very close to the original demo / vision with TWYLM. It feels respectful and like sth the demo could definitely have evolved into with Michael at the reigns. With BoJ it's harder to tell because we never heard an untouched MJ version, but again it "feels" like MJ to me. I also never noticed any auto-tune on that song... His voice sounds amazing to me so, if it's there, it must've have been subtle.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Akon did great job on Hold My Hand, also Much Too Soon is not that far away from the original version. I like those 2 very much.

 

[APOM]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Agreed. Though the "Akon and MJ!" line and the Konvict Music cell doors sample bother me to no end. I never understood the need to announce your name and record label at the start of a song -- keep that stuff on the album sleeve.

I should've included Much Too Soon in my example -- the only reason I didn't is because I never listen to it... It's beautiful, but within the context of when it was released it's just too sad for me.

 

[jonathan1luna]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

"SONY EXTENDED COMMERCIAL ON ITS WAY."

https://www.facebook.com/story.basquiat/posts/675893625793750?stream_ref=10

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I just hope it will feature the full song and not just snippets or instrumental. Remember that they are always saying commercial and not music video!

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Ladies and gentlemen, for the umpteenth time, there is no autotune on Best of Joy. That much I know. I'm not entirely sure there is anything on the vocal track for that; Michael recorded it in a very odd setting which does affect quality and let's off uncontrollable treble frequencies. If anything, there MAY be Melodyne here and there.

Additionally, while it may not be true to Michael's original demo, the 2010 cut of Behind the Mask is leagues better than the demo (which was compiled using the Greg Phillinganes instrumental and a filtered acapella--which is exactly how the demo sounds more or less). The only song on MICHAEL that I feel actually destroys Michael's vision is Hollywood Tonight; everything else is relatively close and/or dead on. But regardless, I still think the album cut of HT is better than the demo.

That's because Neff-U was the only person that was involved to the MICHAEL project who did care about music and who respected MJs artistic vision. The others have acted selfished and have enjoyed the opportunity of being in the spotlight

John McClain cared; his reproductions are some of the best on the album. Teddy Riley had good intentions but is mostly an idiot.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I think Behind the Mask was good, but I hate those live effects from Bucharest. Totally unnecessary. Love the sax!

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

I also think 1989 version of Slave is not a Demo. Maybe some demos also exists, but these vocals they are working with are no way from a demo. Those are proper studio vocals considered for final release (Same goes for Do You Know Where Your Children Are). It is just wrong to call it a demo. It is Original Version. Just like Another Day, Hold My Hand, Much Too Soon, The Way You Love Me, A Place With No Name, Blue Gangsta. Those Are not demos. Hollywood Tonight is an example of demo recording.

Well there are different types of demos. It can have finished vocals but still have unfinished instrumentation alá Give In To Me Demo, or maybe he just wasn't satisfied with it and labeled it a demo like The Dangerous Demo. Then there are those rough and raw demos like like Free, Days In Gloucestershire etc etc.

I think you're right though, it is probably a finished song

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Well there are different types of demos. It can have finished vocals but still have unfinished instrumentation alá Give In To Me Demo, or maybe he just wasn't satisfied with it and labeled it a demo like The Dangerous Demo. Then there are those rough and raw demos like like Free, Days In Gloucestershire etc etc.

I think you're right though, it is probably a finished song

Ladies and gentlemen, for the umpteenth time, there is no autotune on Best of Joy. That much I know. I'm not entirely sure there is anything on the vocal track for that; Michael recorded it in a very odd setting which does affect quality and let's off uncontrollable treble frequencies. If anything, there MAY be Melodyne here and there.

Additionally, while it may not be true to Michael's original demo, the 2010 cut of Behind the Mask is leagues better than the demo (which was compiled using the Greg Phillinganes instrumental and a filtered acapella--which is exactly how the demo sounds more or less). The only song on MICHAEL that I feel actually destroys Michael's vision is Hollywood Tonight; everything else is relatively close and/or dead on. But regardless, I still think the album cut of HT is better than the demo.



John McClain cared; his reproductions are some of the best on the album. Teddy Riley had good intentions but is mostly an idiot.

Thank you for saying this my friend. I don't know if it is just me but i certainly can't hear this supposedly auto tune or even melodyne in Best Of Joy. It's sad that the Michael debacle overshadows some true gems like, Best Of Joy, Behind The Mask, Hollywood Tonight etc etc. I consider these true MJ songs

 

[APOM]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

"SONY EXTENDED COMMERCIAL ON ITS WAY."

https://www.facebook.com/story.basquiat/posts/675893625793750?stream_ref=10

Who is this guy? Because this just seems like some random dude shouting something out on Facebook. No affiliation with Sony or MJ Estate from what I can see. I hope he's right of course, but am not taking this seriously.

On a sidenote -- having watched the commercial a few times, I do like the instrumentation. The production is very clean, though I'm not sure how well it fits with the vocals... Looking forward to hearing more / the full track.

 

[L.T.D]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Thank you for saying this my friend. I don't know if it is just me but i certainly can't hear this supposedly auto tune or even melodyne in Best Of Joy. It's sad that the Michael debacle overshadows some true gems like, Best Of Joy, Behind The Mask, Hollywood Tonight etc etc. I consider these true MJ songs

Me too, though I do prefer Birchey's version of Hollywood Tonight. I think they got that all wrong, they got the bass right which came straight from the demo. But they made the song too fast, you can hear by the demo that the song is supposed to be slower and more mysterious with the whistle in the background. I hear no auto tune on Best of Joy though, I feel they did a really good job with that.

 

[jonathan1luna]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Who is this guy? Because this just seems like some random dude shouting something out on Facebook. No affiliation with Sony or MJ Estate from what I can see. I hope he's right of course, but am not taking this seriously.

On a sidenote -- having watched the commercial a few times, I do like the instrumentation. The production is very clean, though I'm not sure how well it fits with the vocals... Looking forward to hearing more / the full track.

The dancer of video.

 

[APOM]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I like Behind the Mask alright, but also feel the Bucharest samples were unnecessary. The vocals are amazing but the music leaves me in a difficult spot because it's so obvious that McClain went for a kind of modern / throwback style, which is sth I feel MJ would never do because he always tried to push the envelope instead of revisiting old trends.

The mix of the music and the audience samples make for a song that is very heavy on nostalgia -- which is great as a kind of tribute but at the same time strange, because you made a song where Michael is more or less posthumously paying tribute to his own roots :\