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Can we get Sony to tell us the current sales-figure?

denisrs said:
Trackable sales of all Michael's solo records from all lables are about 350 million; group records sales from all labels are about 150 million.

Niether 750 million, nor 1 billion is trackable. Sony-BMG ME (Music Entertainment)/Epic Records/Legacy Records are not obliged to publish any figures and rarely does so. 1 billion figure of total sales just cannot be pulled from anywhere.

Also; actually major labels do not necessary have to pay specifically for certifications. They already pay significant yearly payments as founding members of RIAA. Only Universal Music Group pays more to RIAA than Sony-BMG ME.

Probable lack of fresh certifications can be more connected with Sony-BMG ME just not providing RIAA with updated figures of sales. However, other complications, of course, possible.

Also, as of now there is no accounting dispute between ER/LR/Sony-BMG ME and Jackson; everything was either settled or dismissed. Beyond that, we have newly produced product such as "Thriller 25" as Michael's confidence that he will be receiving his royalties.
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Thank you. Just thinking MJ was really saying like that, you would have to have gotten the word from SONY. Labels had to pay more just to get an album recertified for whatever reason. It's no surprise why his albums remain "uncertified" as it is and as far as I know, neither Sony nor the IFPI hasn't confirmed that the numbers were WAY UP there anyway. If so, they need to be paying all the money TO Michael and as of right now, I'm not seeing it.
 
Muchos said:
I've allways been thinking that somehow mike get's ripped of by someone. Example, whenever someone discuss album sales of for instance dangerous, the sales figure is the same as when the album came out or 2 years later. I keep thinking.. dangerous or any other of his albums haven't sold anything in like 15 - 20 years??

we want the real numbers sony!!
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I honestly think Thriller is one of the only albums of his to constantly sell. That's why that story of his other albums doing 50 million is bogus. OK, I can see HOW "Thriller" will sell least 60-70, that's probable. I'm just having a hard time believing it all did over 50 million. Plus, MJ-Charts.com has the album sales of all albums at very respectably high numbers but nowhere near 100 million for "Thriller", 50 million for the others and no total amounting to 750 million unless MJ's management counted not only album and single sales but DVD and VHS sales too.
 
Let's hold on until MJJ production (Michael Jackson Company) releases its selftitled official website. Until then it's 100% sure that Thriller has sold at least 104 million records, albums ONLY (cd, k7, minidiscs and vinyls).

Concerning the 750 million figure, this gathers Michael Jackson UNITS sales only (cd's, dvd's, k7's, vinyl's, vhs, digital downloads) basically all supports.
 
troubleman84 said:
I honestly think Thriller is one of the only albums of his to constantly sell.
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"Off The Wall" sells well constantly, too. It's been selling very well. And also his compilations sell very well. But I think also other albums must have sold something, someone just make it look like they are selling completely NOTHING. It's obvious that if "Thriller" and "Off The Wall" sell, also at least "Bad" and "Dangerous" sell something because part of the buyer buy more than just one or two albums from his catalogue. That's what I think.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
hes been called credible by others who are repsected. hes a fan that works around/ in the industry so he gets to hear things. whether those things are credible is another issue. its not like hes in mjs camp.hes just hears things cause of the work hes in
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this guy is not credible at all


he's known for posting things that turned out to be untrue


according to the recent claim:

1) time has passed and nothing happened - well, what else to expect? *lol*
2) the IFPI has no authority to certificate worldwide sales for an album *rofl*
 
Topflux said:
"Off The Wall" sells well constantly, too. It's been selling very well. And also his compilations sell very well. But I think also other albums must have sold something, someone just make it look like they are selling completely NOTHING. It's obvious that if "Thriller" and "Off The Wall" sell, also at least "Bad" and "Dangerous" sell something because part of the buyer buy more than just one or two albums from his catalogue. That's what I think.
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I forgot about his compilations and OTW, lol. I wonder if his Motown albums have been bought too.
 
Korgnex said:
this guy is not credible at all


he's known for posting things that turned out to be untrue


according to the recent claim:

1) time has passed and nothing happened - well, what else to expect? *lol*
2) the IFPI has no authority to certificate worldwide sales for an album *rofl*
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Basically and yeah the IFPI definitely doesn't have the right to certify worldwide sales. Matter of fact it's easy to claim something that's not entirely true. Like the stories about Elvis and the Beatles. I also don't believe they sold over a billion. I think that's virtually impossible but all three acts have sold monstrously well for themselves. Mike's the only one though who sold more than 50 million off one album. That's something that at least Elvis and the Beatles can't ever claim.
 
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Salomons said:
it's 100% sure that Thriller has sold at least 104 million records, albums ONLY (cd, k7, minidiscs and vinyls).
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this figure continues to be unproven by a neutral authority

guiness world records is no(!!!) authority to certificate sales for an album



this was a dumb PR-gag, just see how some of the tabloid media adapted that figure, it's working and it's good for MJ, but the figure remains totally unproven and most unlikely (if they did not count singles + making of thriller upon it)
 
Korgnex said:
this figure continues to be unproven by a neutral authority

guiness world records is no(!!!) authority to certificate sales for an album



this was a dumb PR-gag, just see how some of the tabloid media adapted that figure, it's working and it's good for MJ, but the figure remains totally unproven and most unlikely (if they did not count singles + making of thriller upon it)
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And that's the problem right there. I'm sure it'll be amazing if true. But I think in order to sell even 100 million off one album, you'd have to find out how much each copy was sold around the world. The US is a big-ass country compared to other countries over the world and they count sales differently than we do here. Like if an album did 20 million, it would be accounted for. Ever since Soundscan has come out though, it's been hard to buy some of RIAA's stats. Even the stats for Thriller and the Eagles' Greatest Hits collection since both albums were released before the Soundscan era. But at least they had believable numbers. You go elsewhere, if the album sells something like 170,000, it'll go SEVEN TIMES PLATINUM! :lol:

That's why whenever someone just comes out and says so and so artist sold 100 billion copies, I have to take a double look and it don't matter if it's Michael or Paul McCartney.

And you know what's amusing, all the tabloids keep saying 100 million as if that was to prove "how crazy" he turned out. I've noticed that on some T25 "reviews" as of late. They ain't been ALL positive if you didn't think you would see words like "how the mighty have fallen" or whatever.
 
The fact that this black guy sold over even 40 million off one album is incredible within itself but people can choose that it sold up to 100 million because it's an amazing stat anyway. And Guinness ain't always the authority either, lol. They had to get called out on some "facts" recently, lol.

And on the 2008 edition, they say in their book that "Thriller" has been confirmed to have sold 55 million though "MJ's management says over 100 million" while still saying it's the biggest-selling album of all time.

Sounds like someone's backtracking their "facts" and need to owe MJ an apology then.
 
I think it's possible that "Off The Wall" has been reaching the sales of "Bad" and "Dangerous" because what I've seen, they haven't been selling as well as "Off The Wall". I think the sales figure is close to something like this:
Thriller 106m
Dangerous 47m
HIStory 23m (46m if separated disks)
Bad 43m
Off The Wall 30m
Invincible 13,5m
Number Ones 11m
BOTDF 7,5m
Essential 3,5m
TUC 400k

That's around 285 million copies sold only those albums..
 
I am amazed how quickly some of you are readily dismissing figures that Sony isn't even disputing. Not even the media who would have relished knocking the figres down are doing it. Why would sony stand by and allow such a claim if it wasn't true.Why would MJ make such a clain if it wasn't true? There are more people involved in making Thriller, not just MJ. If Thriller did not sell that many, they would know about it. Not one of them have come out and said not true. Could it be because they are getting paid accordingly? MJ works in the industry and he has the tools to check his figures, He knows how many records he sold. I believe him.
 
Sorry to interrupt guys but Michael Jackson himself knows how much Thriller has sold, he mentionned 104 million copies worldwide back in the 2006 WMA (album sales only). Check out the Guiness reply on this matter :

This is based on data from Sony and the RIAA (as of Oct 06): USA sales of 54 million and international sales of just over 50.5 million internationally.

Hope you find this information useful!

Best wishes

Craig


Craig Glenday
Editor-in-Chief
Guinness World Record

Also, last but not least. Even if Sony BMG does not report Michael's official sales. Mike himself is quiet able to track his own sales thanks to BMI which is a performing rights organization that adminstrates MIJAC publishing, basically all of his songs under publishing process whether it's radio broadcasting or CD shipping.

The point is, if Thriller has not sold 104 million records, it means that MJ is lying, which is absolutely not the case. And for those who are saying 104 million is album + singles, well you already know that all MJ Thriller singles haven't sold more than 10-15 million copies (55 million + 10 = 65 million?? LOL)

I hope this will help. Peace
 
Topflux said:
I think it's possible that "Off The Wall" has been reaching the sales of "Bad" and "Dangerous" because what I've seen, they haven't been selling as well as "Off The Wall". I think the sales figure is close to something like this:
Thriller 106m
Dangerous 47m
HIStory 23m (46m if separated disks)
Bad 43m
Off The Wall 30m
Invincible 13,5m
Number Ones 11m
BOTDF 7,5m
Essential 3,5m
TUC 400k

That's around 285 million copies sold only those albums..
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MJJCharts.com have MJ's total albums sales numbers around over 186 million (closing in on 200 million total).
 
Salomons said:
Sorry to interrupt guys but Michael Jackson himself knows how much Thriller has sold, he mentionned 104 million copies worldwide back in the 2006 WMA (album sales only). Check out the Guiness reply on this matter :

This is based on data from Sony and the RIAA (as of Oct 06): USA sales of 54 million and international sales of just over 50.5 million internationally.

Hope you find this information useful!

Best wishes

Craig


Craig Glenday
Editor-in-Chief
Guinness World Record

Also, last but not least. Even if Sony BMG does not report Michael's official sales. Mike himself is quiet able to track his own sales thanks to BMI which is a performing rights organization that adminstrates MIJAC publishing, basically all of his songs under publishing process whether it's radio broadcasting or CD shipping.

The point is, if Thriller has not sold 104 million records, it means that MJ is lying, which is absolutely not the case. And for those who are saying 104 million is album + singles, well you already know that all MJ Thriller singles haven't sold more than 10-15 million copies (55 million + 10 = 65 million?? LOL)

I hope this will help. Peace
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LOL, it's funny he would say that while the 2008 edition still boasts that Thriller sold 55 million but okay, lol.
 
I wonder how MIKE would know though. Up until 2003, MICHAEL was saying Thriller was doing 60 million so unless he miscounted, then some sales weren't added until the World Music Awards thing. It still is confusing even with what dude said.
 
troubleman84 said:
I wonder how MIKE would know though. Up until 2003, MICHAEL was saying Thriller was doing 60 million so unless he miscounted, then some sales weren't added until the World Music Awards thing. It still is confusing even with what dude said.
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Michael has always said OVER 60 million. Also, there was a report that MJ brought in the auditors to sony as he was going to sue sony for royalties.:mello:
 
This week Thriller 25th will be released. With the upcoming 50th anniversary of the Grammy Awards and a special edition of the best selling album of all time, SonyBMG and the IFPI are recertifying the list of best selling albums ever. Everyone knows that since 1982 the album "Thriller" is the biggest selling album in the USA and worldwide with now more than 104 million copies sold. The sales soon will pass the 105th million mark. It's the only album sold more than 100+ worldwide. Insiders of SonyBMG are expecting to sell millions of the new deluxe set worldwide.

But there is more good news for the fans: IFPI will certify Michael Jackson he owns the 5 best albums ever sold in music history. The list:

1. Thriller (105 million)
2. Dangerous (54 million)
3. BAD (53 million)
4. Off The Wall (51 million)
5. HIStory (50 million)

6. The Bodyguard (43 million)

Worldwide Michael Jackson will come close to 1.000.000.000 albums, singles sold including Jackson 5 and The Jacksons. Elvis is 2nd with over 600 million albums sold and Beatles are 3rd with just over
500 million albums sold. Invincible has now sold over 10 million copies.
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Now tha's more like it! When this happens Mike will finally get justice for his accomplishments. I agree with these figures!
 
Now unless the IFPI really DID this, this is the total sales MJ has amassed between 1971-2008:

GOT TO BE THERE - 500,000 (total)
BEN - 500,000 (total)
MUSIC & ME - 100,000
FOREVER, MICHAEL - 120,000
THE BEST OF MICHAEL JACKSON - 500,000 (total)
ONE DAY IN YOUR LIFE - 375,000
18 GREATEST HITS - 500,000 (total)
FAREWELL MY SUMMER LOVE - 300,000

There's some other numbers but MJJCharts had Michael selling over 5 million worldwide during his tenure at Motown.

OFF THE WALL is supposedly 12X platinum worldwide though its estimated total is 20 million.
THRILLER of course is 59X platinum but with around 49 million accounted for, ACCORDING to them.
BAD is around 26 million certified though its estimated total is 30 million.
DANGEROUS is is 22 million certified with 29 million total.
HIStory is over 13 million certified and 18 million total (9 million discs counted together probably or 36 depending on who you hear it from).
BLOOD ON THE DANCE FLOOR is around 2 million certified yet 5 million total estimates.
INVINCIBLE is around 4 million certified and 7 million total estimates.

Anyway his total albums sales go up to an estimated 186,421,000 if you believe it or not or whatever. And this comes from MJ fan boards who check out sales figures.

If record sales are inflated, then it can happen to anybody. MICHAEL surely wouldn't be the only one, lol.
 
Datsymay said:
Michael has always said OVER 60 million. Also, there was a report that MJ brought in the auditors to sony as he was going to sue sony for royalties.:mello:
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Did he really? :lol: See, this is why it'll always remain a controversy about how much THRILLER sold. Sony would have to pay RIAA like Denis said if this was in fact true. I think if it's true about THRILLER sales numbers, Sony and the RIAA are gonna be in a fight and neither company don't wanna get embarrassed just because a former SONY artist said "hey wait a minute, you guys, why weren't these numbers called in yet?" You see what I'm saying? That'll mean EVERY OTHER ALBUM will have to inflate some sales just to stay on course. Not to replace THRILLER but to say they sold that much too (70-80 million while THRILLER is 100 million).
 
Salomons said:
Sorry to interrupt guys but Michael Jackson himself knows how much Thriller has sold, he mentionned 104 million copies worldwide back in the 2006 WMA (album sales only). Check out the Guiness reply on this matter :

This is based on data from Sony and the RIAA (as of Oct 06): USA sales of 54 million and international sales of just over 50.5 million internationally.

Hope you find this information useful!

Best wishes

Craig


Craig Glenday
Editor-in-Chief
Guinness World Record

Also, last but not least. Even if Sony BMG does not report Michael's official sales. Mike himself is quiet able to track his own sales thanks to BMI which is a performing rights organization that adminstrates MIJAC publishing, basically all of his songs under publishing process whether it's radio broadcasting or CD shipping.

The point is, if Thriller has not sold 104 million records, it means that MJ is lying, which is absolutely not the case. And for those who are saying 104 million is album + singles, well you already know that all MJ Thriller singles haven't sold more than 10-15 million copies (55 million + 10 = 65 million?? LOL)

I hope this will help. Peace
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HOLLALUYA!!!....say it again...

the man knows his KACHING!!
 
troubleman84 said:
Did he really? :lol: See, this is why it'll always remain a controversy about how much THRILLER sold. Sony would have to pay RIAA like Denis said if this was in fact true. I think if it's true about THRILLER sales numbers, Sony and the RIAA are gonna be in a fight and neither company don't wanna get embarrassed just because a former SONY artist said "hey wait a minute, you guys, why weren't these numbers called in yet?" You see what I'm saying? That'll mean EVERY OTHER ALBUM will have to inflate some sales just to stay on course. Not to replace THRILLER but to say they sold that much too (70-80 million while THRILLER is 100 million).
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This is my main point that Sony would not stand by and let MJ make that announcement if it was not true. If MJ believes that he sold 104 Albums, he too will be knocking at Sony's door and ask for his money. MJ has nothing to gain by pulling this number out of his hat.
Many people who worked on the album and gets royalty would be asking for their money. That would be wreckless in the umph degree. MJ could never do such a wreckless thing.
Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton, Paul Mc, all the engineers everybody who worked on the album would be demanding payment. I beliive Sony would have put a stop to this already if it were not so.:mello:
 
All that and yet the RIAA hasn't even put it on their site... hmm... maybe it's what Denis pointed out about Sony not paying more than say Universal.
 
Datsymay said:
This is my main point that Sony would not stand by and let MJ make that announcement if it was not true. If MJ believes that he sold 104 Albums, he too will be knocking at Sony's door and ask for his money. MJ has nothing to gain by pulling this number out of his hat.
Many people who worked on the album and gets royalty would be asking for their money. That would be wreckless in the umph degree. MJ could never do such a wreckless thing.
Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton, Paul Mc, all the engineers everybody who worked on the album would be demanding payment. I beliive Sony would have put a stop to this already if it were not so.:mello:
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Not to mention Janet and LaToya, the family of Vincent Price, Eddie Van Halen, Louis Johnson, James Ingram, etc.

EVERYBODY associated with the album INCLUDING Michael would be like "COUGH IT UP!" :rofl:

I :lol: when Janet joked about not getting her platinum certificate for her help on "Thriller" since she AND Toya did contribute backing vocals to one of the songs and it became a big hit too. :lol: It's not just the artist that gets an award for an album sales so I'd imagine Rod Temperton and Quincy Jones relaxing with the money they made from THRILLER as much as Michael. Hell, if it's true about 104 million or 105.... I think all the people associated with it including Bruce Swedien and the boys/girls would all be BILLIONAIRES BY NOW!

Of course Forbes won't cover that because they ain't that cocky to reveal it to 'em.
 
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troubleman84 said:
All that and yet the RIAA hasn't even put it on their site... hmm... maybe it's what Denis pointed out about Sony not paying more than say Universal.
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Michael doesn't work in a vacuum, he works with other people. He made a billion dollars for sony on that album. There are too many people to be paid. Sony would be in serious trouble if MJ trumped up figures and sony hadn't the money to pay. So far, Sony has stayed quiet and had even allowed adverts with that number, so I think sony must know how much is sold. I believe MJ knows too. Shortly after MJ hired his new lawyers and before he refinanced, he ordered some auditing. he knows, I believe him.
 
troubleman84 said:
Not to mention Janet and LaToya, the family of Vincent Price, Eddie Van Halen, Louis Johnson, James Ingram, etc.

EVERYBODY associated with the album INCLUDING Michael would be like "COUGH IT UP!" :rofl:

I :lol: when Janet joked about not getting her platinum certificate for her help on "Thriller" since she AND Toya did contribute backing vocals to one of the songs and it became a big hit too. :lol: It's not just the artist that gets an award for an album sales so I'd imagine Rod Temperton and Quincy Jones relaxing with the money they made from THRILLER as much as Michael. Hell, if it's true about 104 million or 105.... I think all the people associated with it including Bruce Swedien and the boys/girls would all be BILLIONAIRES BY NOW!

Of course Forbes won't cover that because they ain't that cocky to reveal it to 'em.
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You don't become a billionaire by selling 100 million records. Each participant will earn varing percentage of royalties. The ones who have the biggest share of royalties, most likey, quincy, MJ and sony will be still earning much from it. Those who had 1p for every album, will have made the most during the early years but will recieve very little now. Ramone said that MJ makes enough from Thriller alone to live well for the rest of his life. I don't think she was making that up.:mello:
 
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