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When do you think Michael and Lisa last spoke?

When do you think they last spoke to each other?

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indranee said:
yeah, we have no other person backing Randy up on this. he says that Michael just... collapsed on stage. he had an irregular heart rhythm. I think he had a vasovagal attack and his heartrate went out of whack. he probably wasn't eating and sweated during the rehearsal and got severely dehydrated.

you can see what happened in that doctor's story -- the one who took care of him in the ER. I think I have the link somewhere.

Debbie's first pregnancy was a miscarriage, apparently. the others -- according to Randy -- were IVF. I *can* understand Mike's hurry. you know, sometime we all have a sixth sense about things. maybe somewhere deep in his subconscious, he knew his days were more numbered than most. whatever it was, it really put the fire in his belly to have his own kids, whether with Lisa or without her.
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I was reading lisa's blog again today and I thought of this part in bold. She claims that he knew he would die young and that was that.
 
elmari said:
I just have to say this. I know that we all love Michael to death here. But what I think he did to Lisa by going against their marriage and accepting another woman's proposal to have his children was totally WRONG!

I don't know what the circumstances were towards the end of the marriage. Maybe they felt like they hated each other, but underneath secretly still loved one another.
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Bold: Those are the most passionate relationships, the love and hate kind =)

And i agree, it must have killed Lisa when she found out Michael had gotten another women pregnant.
 
MJJ:G.O.A.T said:
:no: Oh Michael...He says he isn't sure how long in 2003 he was impaired and that it wouldn't last all of his waking hours. I think its still possible they could have meet. I don't think he just forgot her, that doesn't seem to be him. I think he would have called her to reschedule. I think something happened...I really hope it wasn't because he was impaired and people were keeping her away from him.

I haven't heard that meeting story anywhere else either.



Do we know that what is in bold is true for sure? I've only seen that Randy J. is the one who is claiming that...is there another source like Mike, Lisa or Debbie?

Remember people were claiming LMP was taking birth control and not telling Mike. While possible, they had no source for it.
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I don't think Michael could have forgotten Lisa just like that neither. Or maybe he really did have a lot of things on his mind, maybe the bashir documentary had already come out and he was really out of it at the moment.

And I think there is a possibility that Lisa was taking birth control. Mainly because in the taraborrelli book michael freaked out a bit when thinking that Lisa might have her period and they had already been together for a while so he must have seen her with her period before. but the fact that it could have been the first time Michael thought Lisa had her period makes me think that he hadn't seen it before, meaning she was on birth control. But i think lisa had been taking the pills (if she was on them) way before her marriage to Michael while they were dating and that maybe she never stopped. Or by the time she did it was too late in the marriage and Michael was already desperate and so found debbie.

and i don't think the hospital thing had anything to do with Lisa and Debbie or any baby. I think he was just dehydrated and over worked himself. And i don't think Lisa wasn't going to go either. In the article with the doctor, the doctor claims that one of the first people to arrive by Michael's side were Lisa and her entourage and Janet and her entourage. Meaning Lisa did go because she was worried about him, not because they made her go. i think taraborrelli just put everything together and try to create a story out of it. But i do know that there was a fight in where Lisa and Michael ended badly. And also, that Lisa wanted to talk to Mike again the next day but wasn't allowed to. But again, i don't think him being in the hospital had anything to do with debbie, lisa, etc. I think it was just about his health.

And mods, let me know if i have said anything wrong so i can go and delete it.
 
For the hospital incident, I somehow think that he was stressed because of work and his problem. I"m sure he and Lisa wasn't on good term when that happened. From the doctor's post, she was one of the first to arrive, but many other people said that she didn't want to come. I don't think that was the case, no matter the fight was, his condition was bad and am sure that Lisa was panicked to hear that and rush to hospital. She also mentioned later that she didn't ask for a divorce at the hospital.. and said it's not like that... I think they didn't have a big fight there, just a mutual misunderstanding and not talking much.. while Mike was on withdrawing mood.

I really feel that Mike tried to get Debbie pregnant even before they divorce, Lisa was mad enough to say about this on interview. When Mike is mad at Lisa enough, he might go ahead and tried to get Debbie pregnant. IVF or not, I used to think that's no way that he would do it naturally, but again he and Debbie was close and she took care of his skin thing. So may be he wasn't that shy and did accept Debbie offer. I hope that's not true, all they did was IVF, I couldn't imagine what Lisa would felt when she knew about that. It's just a confirmation to her that, yea right, he really doesn't love me anymore, or even hate me.

As for Mike video admitting that he was on prescription drug, many people really take it like he's an addict, for me, his accident looks really bad - the one he fall in Munich? Doctor gave those pills to him, he needed it. It wasn't like he prefer to have it to get high or something.
 
What is the relevance of this thread at this moment in time other than to dwell on the past? I find it unhealthy to say the least that people remain so obsessed over something that Michael moved on from YEARS and YEARS AGO? He got over it, she was no longer significant in his life, and hasn't been, he moved on, started a family, etc.. all WITHOUT HER. That says ALOT, it speaks volumes. Let it go and move on already geez.....

I feel like I'm on her message board sometimes.....blahhhhh.......
 
^^^^ no offense but if you don't like it then don't read it. And i honestly don't mean this in a bad way or an offensive way. The thread is about the last time Lisa and Michael spoke. And the reason why we are going into to the past is because we need to in order to figure out what happened between them that would lead to their last phone call. Apparently, if you have been reading, their supposed last phone call is an outcome and a reflection of their entire relationship. Leading to us investigating and discussing their pass. And its our problem if we want to do this or not, and so far there has been no disrespect on the thread so i don't see why we shouldn't and cant talk about it. And again, i'm really not trying to offend you or anything. i'm just stating why we are talking about the pass.
 
No offense taken. I said what I feel and I'm moving on, I don't dwell on pointless things in life. :)
 
ok then. Move on. :) and we aren't really dwelling, we are just intrigued by their history. :)
 
dori727 said:
Bold: Those are the most passionate relationships, the love and hate kind =)

And i agree, it must have killed Lisa when she found out Michael had gotten another women pregnant.
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Definately agree here.

And I think it did kill Lisa when DR got pregnant. Remember when she told Diane Sawyer that she had to be "mopped up off the floor" afterwards? I think that was her way of saying that it really hurt her deeply. And how could it not? We all know that they were still in love even after the divorce. Just look at the photos. How many ex couples do you see frolicking all over the world together??
 
CTU said:
For the hospital incident, I somehow think that he was stressed because of work and his problem. I"m sure he and Lisa wasn't on good term when that happened. From the doctor's post, she was one of the first to arrive, but many other people said that she didn't want to come. I don't think that was the case, no matter the fight was, his condition was bad and am sure that Lisa was panicked to hear that and rush to hospital. She also mentioned later that she didn't ask for a divorce at the hospital.. and said it's not like that... I think they didn't have a big fight there, just a mutual misunderstanding and not talking much.. while Mike was on withdrawing mood.

I really feel that Mike tried to get Debbie pregnant even before they divorce, Lisa was mad enough to say about this on interview. When Mike is mad at Lisa enough, he might go ahead and tried to get Debbie pregnant. IVF or not, I used to think that's no way that he would do it naturally, but again he and Debbie was close and she took care of his skin thing. So may be he wasn't that shy and did accept Debbie offer. I hope that's not true, all they did was IVF, I couldn't imagine what Lisa would felt when she knew about that. It's just a confirmation to her that, yea right, he really doesn't love me anymore, or even hate me.

As for Mike video admitting that he was on prescription drug, many people really take it like he's an addict, for me, his accident looks really bad - the one he fall in Munich? Doctor gave those pills to him, he needed it. It wasn't like he prefer to have it to get high or something.
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do you have a vid of the Munich fall? I've never seen it! I'd like to see it please, if you have a link?
 
"mopped of the floor" was the word she said, and I think it actually happened like that. Regarding her painful feeling and devastated.. she also got sick. I think her subconscious was really bad too that made her very sick. I think that was one of the thing that made Michael aware of what really effect Lisa after divorce, and might be the reason they started talking again.

If you try to find the video of MJ falling, there's a link somewhere in 2000watt thread.
 
oh thanks! will look...

I totally believe this. I had a similar sickness after I broke up with my fiance a while ago - it was horrible -- I ended up in hospital for a while too. I was bleeding out, basically. I was living with my parents after I left him and I remember, before I went to the hospital, my dad said to me -- "honey, you look gray. I think we need to take you to the doctor."

it was a soul-destroying experience, that breakup.

I hope she finds some peace as time goes by.
 
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dori727 said:
I don't think Michael could have forgotten Lisa just like that neither. Or maybe he really did have a lot of things on his mind, maybe the bashir documentary had already come out and he was really out of it at the moment.

And I think there is a possibility that Lisa was taking birth control. Mainly because in the taraborrelli book michael freaked out a bit when thinking that Lisa might have her period and they had already been together for a while so he must have seen her with her period before. but the fact that it could have been the first time Michael thought Lisa had her period makes me think that he hadn't seen it before, meaning she was on birth control. But i think lisa had been taking the pills (if she was on them) way before her marriage to Michael while they were dating and that maybe she never stopped. Or by the time she did it was too late in the marriage and Michael was already desperate and so found debbie.

and i don't think the hospital thing had anything to do with Lisa and Debbie or any baby. I think he was just dehydrated and over worked himself. And i don't think Lisa wasn't going to go either. In the article with the doctor, the doctor claims that one of the first people to arrive by Michael's side were Lisa and her entourage and Janet and her entourage. Meaning Lisa did go because she was worried about him, not because they made her go. i think taraborrelli just put everything together and try to create a story out of it. But i do know that there was a fight in where Lisa and Michael ended badly. And also, that Lisa wanted to talk to Mike again the next day but wasn't allowed to. But again, i don't think him being in the hospital had anything to do with debbie, lisa, etc. I think it was just about his health.

And mods, let me know if i have said anything wrong so i can go and delete it.
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I think he might have been dealing with alot or had something to do. It could be that he was impaired when they wanted him to sign papers. Regardless he had legitmate reasons to take medicine; I keep reading he was in alot of pain.

Again the source for the period story is Randy J. Is there another? I didn't get from it that it was her first time (that he knew of); I get that he was kind of like: :bugeyed Do you think its that time of the month for her? lol It could be as you said; she might have been opening up to having kids and then things went sour b/w them. But what we do know for sure is that she regrets it.

Agreed on the hospital thingy.

CTU said:
I really feel that Mike tried to get Debbie pregnant even before they divorce, Lisa was mad enough to say about this on interview. When Mike is mad at Lisa enough, he might go ahead and tried to get Debbie pregnant. IVF or not, I used to think that's no way that he would do it naturally, but again he and Debbie was close and she took care of his skin thing. So may be he wasn't that shy and did accept Debbie offer. I hope that's not true, all they did was IVF, I couldn't imagine what Lisa would felt when she knew about that. It's just a confirmation to her that, yea right, he really doesn't love me anymore, or even hate me.
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I think Lisa doesn't like Debbie at all and its clear by some of the shots she takes at her in interviews. Lisa did say that MJ mentioned that Debbie would have kids for him, but I am sure this had to be during a big fight (not out of the blue). SMDH @ Debbie for telling him while married; she probably knew him & LMP were having problems.

Mike himself told Bashit that Prince & Paris were conceived naturally & that he had sex with Debbie Rowe.

TurtleDove said:
And I think it did kill Lisa when DR got pregnant. Remember when she told Diane Sawyer that she had to be "mopped up off the floor" afterwards? I think that was her way of saying that it really hurt her deeply. And how could it not? We all know that they were still in love even after the divorce. Just look at the photos. How many ex couples do you see frolicking all over the world together??
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Agreed.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but are we talking about the Munich 1999 fall? If so, Michael himself didn't fall on stage. He was on a bridge that broke apart in three parts. The middle part, which was the one that he was on went up like it was supposed to. But something went wrong and it came crashing down in front of the stage. It looked like part of the act, but it was really a technical malfunction. Michael just went on singing. But after the performance, the fall had affected his back and he had to be taken to the hospital and then he was prescribed pain killers.

For what it's worth, (and this is just my opinion) I do not believe that the children were conceived naturally. I think it was all IVF. I have my reasons for believing this, but I don't want to go any further since it might be considered invasive. Not everything Michael has said publicly has been entirely true and he has also embellished things in order to control public perception in the past. But like I said, this is just my opinion.
 
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Hey elmari, I want to know why you think they were not conceived naturally, can you PM me? I also which to believe that too, I can't believe they did it naturally. I'd be really disappointed. I do believe he has a reason to say the truth...

As for the accident, you're right that bridge fell. I think it's quite a major accident but he continued the show. My mom used to have a car accident, it wasn't that bad when when her neck was a bit out of place and it became permanent... from the Video when I first saw it, I really felt that he's going to have a problem with that for sure. For a guy like him who used his body that much, I have no doubt that he would end up in so much pain...
 
Yup ^^^^^, she did say it like that. It was lisa's sarcastic way of saying "yea i was extremely hurt". And i too agree that she got "sick" because of the divorce and possibility the shock and pain from learning that Michael had gotten someone else pregnant less than a few months after the divorce.

And actually, i was very young but i remember when Michael fell, it was all over the news! lol he was dancing or something and he just fell!
 
Didn't Nic Gage do the same thing to her? Married a much younger woman and had a kid in what a year or something. She didn't diss him in public.
 
^^^^^^ lol apparently she didn't care about Nic cage as much. Nic even said somewhere when asked why the relationship didn't work, that perhaps it didn't work because he doesn't wear a single glove. Nic knew lisa was still tied up with Michael
 
^^ yup, someone in this thread posted that statement and said that Nic had said it in an australian magazine interview.
 
dori727 said:
^^ yup, someone in this thread posted that statement and said that Nic had said it in an australian magazine interview.
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I saw it as a comment on a YT video. I think I posted the comment and video on pg 26 or 28. Something like that...

She definitely didn't care about Nic as much as Mike. She sure didn't keep his name in her mouth like she did Michael's. She supposedly released a statement saying she & Nic should never should have gotten married. Check my post; I included that too.

It seems as if we are talking about different falls. I remember the twisting the ankle one which he explained at the Soul Train awards but the others; I dunno? Didn't he break his leg at one time? But wasn't that much later on like 2000s? So I guess the Munich one is what people are talking about.
 
What I didn't understand about the Nic comment was that supposedly Lisa was trying to get over Michael and start a new life. Why would she be talking to him all the time?

Plus, Lisa and Nic were off and on for a few years. It wasn't like they were on the whole time and then got married. Mmmm. . . I am really now wondering is she went ahead and married Nic to try to prove something to Mike? She did say that she and Nic should never really have gotten married.

I think Lisa would write a book if she felt it was absolutely necessary to show a different side of Michael to the world--> a side that was a husband, lover, friend, human being. Right now is not the moment because she is just starting a new family and Michael just passed. But I think one day she might feel compelled to tell the world a different side of Michael.

I wouldn't actually mind if she wrote it if she was respectful to Michael and was just totally honest about what went on btw them.

That is really interesting that Michael didn't have her sign anything saying that she couldn't write a book about their time together. i guess he doesn't have a problem with what had happened btw them and the world knowing about it.
 
I agree with you Elmari. I do think eventually, over time Lisa will write a book or come out and say something in respect to michael. But I think, like Janet, its going to take her some time. Personally I think besides the kids and Katherine, these two are the ones that have taken the news the hardest.

Also, yes, if Nic cage said this it means that 1) Lisa and Michael were still talking, or 2) thats all Lisa would talk or care about. She did say once that she was always constantly trying to keep up with him and that after the divorce she became obsessed with him. And maybe Mike didn't have her sign anything because there was still a lot of respect between them at the point of the divorce. Lol there was so much respect that they started hanging out again. =) this also explains why Michael felt betrayed perhaps by Lisa after in life because of all her bashing, and well moving on in life that he was too sad/mad/hurt to talk colloquially to her when she called him. I mean, there was a great deal of respect between them until a certain point.
 
I´ve spent a couple of hours reading this thread and I really like it. I still have a lot left to read. Thanks to all of you for your interesting views and comments. I so much wish that Michael and Lisa would have made it!
 
There is a thread in the Forum for 'Celebrities that support Michael' during the 2005 trial.

I compiled the list and was sad to see that Lisa Marie and Quincy Jones weren't on it at least not posted by other people.

I know that Lisa was bashing Michael during this time and sort of gave a weak defense for him. But in your opinion, with what she had said, was she supporting him or not?

I remember her saying to LK that she had never seen Michael act inappropriate with children or her children. But she couldn't say anything about his innocence or guilt because she has not been with Michael for years.

Was that a lame cop out or what? She knew Michael intimately, so she should know. But maybe I am not getting the whole picture of her comments and maybe I am just getting soundbites from the interview.

So did Lisa Marie defend/support Michael during the 2005 trial or not? Be it a weak or a strong statement.
 
I don't know elmari (got your pms, btw... answering soon!)... I just think Lisa was very, very hurt and confused by Mike at one time. I think her crying at the funeral and her blog were indicative of a deep sense of guilt she's now working through. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, ya know? I know how I felt toward my ex when we broke up after five long, intimate, stormy years of love and fighting and torment and good times... it's really hard to separate the bad completely from the good, and vice versa, when you have a relationship like that.
 
elmari said:
There is a thread in the Forum for 'Celebrities that support Michael' during the 2005 trial.

I compiled the list and was sad to see that Lisa Marie and Quincy Jones weren't on it at least not posted by other people.

I know that Lisa was bashing Michael during this time and sort of gave a weak defense for him. But in your opinion, with what she had said, was she supporting him or not?

I remember her saying to LK that she had never seen Michael act inappropriate with children or her children. But she couldn't say anything about his innocence or guilt because she has not been with Michael for years.

Was that a lame cop out or what? She knew Michael intimately, so she should know. But maybe I am not getting the whole picture of her comments and maybe I am just getting soundbites from the interview.

So did Lisa Marie defend/support Michael during the 2005 trial or not? Be it a weak or a strong statement.[/quote]

NO, anytime she was asked about him during this time around the release of her 2nd album she said he was a hot stove and she didn't want to answer any questions about him
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See though, with Lisa i think she tried to much to tell the world, michael, her mom, but especially herself that she didn't care about Michael. She had probably actually convinced herself until the trials happened. When the trials happened it was obvious that Lisa did care but maybe was to proud to admit it? When i saw the LK interview they showed the clip of him walking in to court. Lisa's eyes were glued the whole time to the screen as she spoke to Lk. Even like this though Lisa said that nothing bad had ever happened between her kids and michael. She also cared enough to released a statement after her words had been twisted when ssaid "i saw things i couldn't do anything about" something along those lines. So in a way she didn't support him, but in another here you have this ex-wife that has been bashing about him and it is known that the relation ended badly, and even like that Lisa still defended michael in her own way by saying she never saw anything with kids. This says alot about a person (michael). It shows how good of a person he really is if someone who is "indifferent" about you can still come out an say something sort of good in your name. a disclaimer.

IMO, Lisa didn't support him in the sense of going to court etc, but neither did she not support him. Actually, sometimes i noticed she was worried, like in the LK interview when she said "it'll hurt anyone to see someone go through this". So maybe she wasnt completly supporting, but she was worrying

and i'm glad you like it Flyaway! =)
 
Durin the LK interview, Lisa admitted that she loves the feelin to be with Michael. Although she didnt directly admit it, but she states that its great to be with someone who is much more famous than she is because only then, she will feel like a wife and she doesnt want someone to marry her just for public attention.

It's obvious that durin the interview, she gets more emotion when talkin about Michael but when LK asks about Nic, Lisa seems to be much more relax and open about it.

The marriage to Nic was just an impulsive act IMO and after they split, they still remain as friends..but I cant sense any "love" between them. The smile and expression shown on Lisa's face while she was with Michael and Nic was totally different. You can feel that Michael and Lisa were truly and madly in love with each another. Michael is definitely one of the most special person in Lias's life.
 
^^^^^ completely agree. The marriage to nic was all on impulse.
 
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